Oklahoma-K State

[Marmel]

Wouldn't it be so nice to see OU/Michigan and LSU/USC and then the winners play for the Title?

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
Since when has Bill Snyder been considered a coaching genious? What has he won before that makes him a coaching genious? I swear, Brent and his boy toy have to be giving eachother bj's in the booth for as much as they orgasm.

I'll tell you why he's a genius....

Prior to Bill Snyder came to K-State, their program was a complete joke. I remember sitting at Wagner Field in Manhattan on a cold, freezing rain night and watching the Wildcats lose to division 1-AA Northern Iowa. Sports Illustrated had just had the Wildcats on the cover of their magazine as 'The Worst Program in the History of College Sports.'

Then Bill Snyder came along.

Courtesy: Kansas State University
Release: 07/30/2003
In his 13 seasons in Manhattan, Kansas State Head Coach Bill Snyder has taken the Wildcat football program from the depths of college football to one of the nation's premier programs, making Snyder one of the most respected head coaches in the game

Since Bill Snyder took over the Kansas State football program prior to the 1989 season, he has triggered what many experts have called the greatest turnaround in college football history.


Snyder has led K-State to nine straight bowl games, one of seven schools in the nation to currently have that long a string of postseason appearances. The Wildcats also have been one of college football?s best home teams under Snyder, compiling an impressive 67-8-1 record at KSU Stadium since 1990.


In 2001, Snyder directed one of the best in-season turnarounds in school history. Despite losing four straight in the middle of the year and facing the fourth-toughest schedule in the nation, the Wildcats recovered to win four of their last five games to end the regular season with a 6-5 record and a berth in the Insight.com Bowl.


Despite the record, the quality of the players produced by the Snyder-led coaching staff continued to attract national attention from those who best know the game.


Six Kansas State players were selected in the 2002 NFL Draft, the most of any team in the Big 12 Conference, with only six schools in the country having more players picked in the draft.


The Wildcats started the 2000 season ranked in the Top 10 for just the second time in school history and made a four-week run into the Top 5 that saw K-State climb as high as No. 2 in the nation.


K-State won the Big 12 North Division for the second time in three years and earned at least a share of the title for the third consecutive season. K-State had six players named first team All-Big 12 by the league?s coaches, and PK Jamie Rheem, DT Mario Fatafehi and WR Quincy Morgan earned All-America honors.


The 1999 season saw the Wildcats climb from No. 20 in the preseason poll to finish at No. 6 after starting the season with nine straight victories and win 11 games for the third straight year. K-State tied Nebraska for the Wildcats? second consecutive Big 12 North Division Championship. All this in what many thought would be a rebuilding season. K-State led the conference in first-team all-conference picks with seven players.


In 1998, Snyder led K-State to its second straight 11-win season and a No. 4 ranking in the final regular season polls. In November, K-State occupied a No. 1 ranking in a national poll for the first time in school history. The Wildcats won the Big 12 Conference North Division and advanced to a postseason bowl game for the sixth year in a row. K-State won its first 11 games of the season and ran its winning streak to a school-record 20 games before falling to Texas A&M in the Big 12 Championship game.


Quarterback Michael Bishop became the first Wildcat to be a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, and a total of six K-Staters earned All-America honors.


Snyder earned National Coach of the Year honors from the Walter Camp Foundation, the Bobby Dodd Coach of the Year Foundation, the Associated Press, the Paul ?Bear? Bryant Award and the Schutt Sports Group.


Snyder?s unprecedented success at Kansas State hasn?t gone unnoticed. Snyder has been named the National Coach of the Year on three occasions (also by ESPN in 1991 and by CNN in 1994). He has been a finalist for the prestigious Bear Bryant/FWAA National Coach of the Year Award in 1993 and 1995 before winning in 1998; a finalist for the Football News National Coach of the Year Award in 1995 and 1998; and a finalist for the Kodak/AFCA National Coach of the Year Award in 1993 and 1998.


In 1997, Snyder led the Wildcats to their first 11-win season in school history, a No. 7 final ranking and the first 10-win regular season since 1910. It was just the third 10-win season in 102 years of K-State football. Kansas State won a school-record seven conference games, finishing second in the North Division to undefeated and eventual national champion Nebraska.


The Wildcats defeated South Division champion Texas A&M, 36-17. The season ended with a 35-18 win over Big East Conference champion Syracuse in the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, with an estimated 50,000 K-State fans attending K-State?s first-ever Alliance Bowl.


The 1996 season saw K-State finish with a 9-3 record, while more than 45,000 Wildcat fans painted Dallas purple for the Southwestern Bell Cotton Bowl, Kansas State?s first-ever New Year?s Day Bowl. Despite a 19-15 loss to No. 5 Brigham Young, the support and respect for the K-State program grew to unprecedented heights.


In 1995, Snyder guided K-State to a 10-2 record, including a 5-2 Big Eight record to tie for second place behind national champion Nebraska. Following a 54-21 blitzing of WAC champion Colorado State in the 1995 Holiday Bowl, the Wildcats finished the season ranked sixth in the USA Today/CNN Coaches Poll and seventh in the Associated Press Poll. Both rankings were the highest ever attained by a Kansas State football team to that point.


In 1993, he joined legendary Nebraska head coach Bob Devaney as the only head coaches in Big Eight history to be named Associated Press Big Eight Coach of the Year three times in a four-year period (1990, 1991 and 1993). The Houston Chronicle named him the 1996 Big 12 Coach of the Year, while he earned 1997 and 1998 Big 12 Coach of the Year honors from the Kansas City Star. Snyder also was the 1998 Big 12 Coach of the Year by the Associated Press and by a vote of league coaches.


During the last eight seasons, the Wildcats have amassed an 87-22-1 record, the second-best overall mark among teams in the Big 12 Conference.


Those numbers alone indicate the emergence of a new power in the Big 12 Conference and with it the recognition that Snyder is truly one of the finest coaches in college football today.


?Bill Snyder isn?t the coach of the year, and he isn?t the coach of the decade,? said former Oklahoma and Dallas Cowboys coach Barry Switzer. ?He?s the coach of the century.?


But to put the significance of that success into proper perspective, one must consider the not-so-distant history of what was the worst football program in the country and the profound impact Snyder has had not only on the football program, but Kansas State University as a whole.


Perhaps former Colorado head coach Bill McCartney said it best.


?I don?t think anybody has approximated what he?s done,? McCartney said in 1994. ?He?s taken a team that didn?t have a good football tradition. Colorado had a good tradition at one time, but what has happened at Kansas State is unprecedented.


?I don?t think anybody in college football can compare to what they?ve done in Manhattan. It looks like the entire university has gotten behind him. They?re hitting on all cylinders in recruiting, academically and in their cohesiveness.?


The list of accomplishments Snyder has amassed in just 13 years is as endless as the time most people thought it would take for the Wildcats to be a consistent threat in the Big Eight, and now, Big 12 Conference.


In 1993, Snyder guided K-State to its first bowl win in school history and, in 1994, the Wildcats cracked the Top 10 for the first time in school history. In 1998, the Wildcats achieved a No. 1 national ranking in one of the major polls for the first time in the program?s history.


In 1995, the Wildcats finished tied for second in the Big Eight and their 5-2 league mark gave K-State two consecutive 5-2 Big Eight seasons. In the last three years of the Big Eight, the Wildcats defeated or tied every team in the league except Nebraska. Against everyone in the Big 12 except Nebraska and Colorado, the Wildcats are 42-4 since 1993. Since the inception of the Big 12 in 1996, K-State trails only Nebraska with a league-games record of 37-11.


While some of those feats would be considered modest at some schools, history tells why they are so impressive at Kansas State.


In the last 12 years, Snyder has resurrected the Wildcats from a 1-36-1 stretch to close the 1980s to a 98-33-1 (.746) mark since.


In fact, one has to add all victories from 1950 to 1988 to total 105 wins at K-State.


Individually, Snyder has produced 37 different All-Americans during the past 13 years, including eight consensus first-team All-Americans: in 1992 (his son, Sean Snyder), 1993 (FS Jaime Mendez), 1995 (CB Chris Canty and DT Tim Colston), 1996 (Canty), 1997 (PK Martin Gramatica), 1998 (PR David Allen) and 1999 (LB Mark Simoneau).


Gramatica was the 1997 Lou Groza Collegiate Place-Kicker Award winner, the first major award winner in Kansas State history. Quarterback Michael Bishop became the first K-State player to be named a finalist for the Heisman Trophy (finishing as runner-up) while winning the Davey O?Brien Award as the nation?s outstanding quarterback.


Hayden Fry, the former Iowa head coach who watched Snyder direct a dangerous Hawkeye offense for 10 years during that program?s amazing turnaround, was the first to forecast K-State?s rise.


?I think he?ll do a job much quicker than anyone anticipates in regards to taking Kansas State to respectability,? Fry said. ?He?s a quality coach and gentleman.?


And yet it?s probable that even Fry looks on in amazement when pondering where the Kansas State football program was before Snyder?s arrival and the level it has ascended to today.


The foundation for K-State?s turnaround was laid in 1989 during Snyder?s first season in Manhattan. Although the season yielded just a 1-10 record, it became evident to everyone involved in the program that something special was happening. Most importantly, Snyder instilled a winning attitude and a healthy dose of self-respect and enthusiasm to a program that had been given up for dead more than once over the years.


In 1990, Kansas State was one of just four teams in the country to improve its record by four games with a 5-6 mark, including its first Big Eight Conference wins in four seasons with victories over Oklahoma State and Iowa State. Snyder again beat those two schools with impressive wins in 1991, while adding Kansas and Missouri to the list of his Big Eight victims to finish at 7-4.


Heavy graduation losses on the offensive side of the ball resulted in a 5-6 mark in 1992, but the Wildcats were still able to hang their hats on their first perfect home season (5-0) since 1934.


Of course, it should come as no surprise that Snyder would be this kind of architect for a building program. At Iowa, he played a key role in the renaissance of a Hawkeye program that went from 17 consecutive losing seasons to eight straight bowl appearances. Snyder was the mind behind Iowa?s potent offensive attack.


The Hawkeye offense ranked first in passing efficiency and third in passing yardage nationally in Snyder?s last five years of direction. In his final Iowa season, the Peach Bowl team led the Big Ten, and ranked seventh nationally, with 277 passing yards per game. That team was second in the Big Ten with 416 yards of offense per game.


Snyder also served as quarterback coach at Iowa and helped develop some of the best quarterbacks in NCAA history, including NFL players Chuck Long (second in Heisman voting with over 10,000 passing yards in Iowa career), Mark Vlasic and Chuck Hartlieb, who wrapped up his career as the first Hawkeye quarterback to throw for 3,000 yards in back-to-back seasons.


Snyder, a member of the American Football Coaches Association Rules Committee and Ethics Committee and a speaker at the 1991 and 1995 NCAA Football Forum, began his full-time coaching career in 1964 as an assistant at Indio High School in California. In 1966 he served as a graduate assistant at USC under John McKay before returning to become head coach at Indio High School in 1967. He accepted the same position at Santa Ana Foothill High School in 1969, where he stayed until 1973. In 1974, Snyder became the offensive coordinator on the football staff and head swimming coach at Austin College in Sherman, Texas. He joined the University of North Texas staff in 1976 where he helped author an impressive turnaround with a three-year record of 26-7. With the Hayden Fry staff, he left UNT in 1979 to take over at Iowa.


Snyder, who was hired as Kansas State?s 32nd head football coach on Nov. 30, 1988, received his B.A. from William Jewell in 1963. He earned his M.A. from Eastern New Mexico in 1965. As a player, he was a three-year letterwinner as a defensive back at William Jewell. Snyder and his wife, Sharon, have two sons (Sean and Ross) and three daughters (Shannon, Meredith and Whitney). They also have four grandchildren, Sydney, Katherine, Tate and Matthew.


Sean was a first-team All-America punter by Associated Press, Kodak and Athlon?s for Kansas State in 1992, and is currently on the Wildcat staff as associate AD/football operations.






Bill Snyder Capsule

Year Overall Big 8/12 Finish Bowl
1989 1-10 0-7 8th
1990 5-6 2-5 6th-t
1991 7-4 4-3 4th
1992 5-6 2-5 6th-t
1993 9-2-1 4-2-1 3rd Copper
1994 9-3 5-2 3rd Aloha
1995 10-2 5-2 2nd-t Holiday
1996 9-3 6-2 3rd-N Cotton
1997 11-1 7-1 2nd-N Fiesta
1998 11-2 8-0 1st-N Alamo
1999 11-1 7-1 1st(t)-N Holiday
2000 11-3 6-2 1st-N Cotton
2001 6-6 3-5 t4th-N Insight.com
Totals 105-49-1 59-37-1 9 straight bowls
(.681) (.613)

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Marmel
Wouldn't it be so nice to see OU/Michigan and LSU/USC and then the winners play for the Title?

no. fuck the push for college playoffs.

[Calis]

Bill Snyder has been a notoriously bad interview from any I've ever seen.

I don't think it's so much he's a prick as the guy is just boring as all hell, and really doesn't like talking to the media. Just seems very shy in that respect.

As for him being a coaching genius, yeah, that's blowing it out of proportion. I do think he's a good coach, and he did turn around a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE program, but you're right, he hasn't won the big ones. The guy definitely deserves respect for what he's done though, it's pretty amazing.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
no. fuck the push for college playoffs.

sure. Its better just to take a guess at who the best team is rather then let them prove it on the field.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Scarecrow
... I remember sitting at Wagner Field in Manhattan on a cold, freezing rain night and watching the Wildcats lose to division 1-AA Northern Iowa....

(If you remember) Just out of curiousity, was that when Terry Allen was at Northern Iowa?

Originally posted by Marmel
Wouldn't it be so nice to see OU/Michigan and LSU/USC and then the winners play for the Title?

Yeah, but it won't happen.

SI

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally posted by Marmel
sure. Its better just to take a guess at who the best team is rather then let them prove it on the field.

Playoffs don't prove the "best" team is any sport. I'm not saying that playoffs are a bad idea. I'm just arguing the semantics.

[Craptacular]

At least Nick Saban gave a nice interview. He was polite and said they'll live with whatever result the BCS comes up with.

Of course, he was talking to Jill Arrington.

[BishopMVP]

First of all, umm, wow, didn't expect that.

Originally posted by sterlingice
Not only that but if you want to talk about asskickings, a lot of their wins were more convincing than those other two teams, particularly LSU.

Just to argue here, LSU's wins were more impressive than USC's.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Marmel
sure. Its better just to take a guess at who the best team is rather then let them prove it on the field.

Personally, I think only conference champs should be eligible, but I think they system as-is is the best way to pit the two most deserving teams head-to-head and preserve college football history and tradition.

I'd prefer a re-vamped BCS most of all.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Philliesfan980
I have to agree with you there (That Jim "Chris" Everett was the best). I mean comon, lighten up a little, you just won the Big 12 championship over the #1 team in the country, have some fun.

You're forgetting Jim Gray's futile attempt to interview multiple Yankees after a playoff game a few years back, in response to his comments about Pete Rose. I can't remember who it was (Leyritz?), but the guy hits a game winning HR in the 9th, the team is celebrating, Jim Gray comes over, and he gets blown off on national TV.

I've never felt sorry for someone I intensely dislike before, but that moment came close.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Marmel
sure. Its better just to take a guess at who the best team is rather then let them prove it on the field.

{sarcasm} That's a real hard sentiment to echo. {/sarcasm}

So now we have people trying to determine which of these is more important: when you lose, who you lose to, who you beat, who you play in the non-conference, and how you win. And all we're going to get is an answer that satisfies no one.

I ask anyone opposed to a playoff: Do you want the regular season to mean something? Isn't that the rallying cry I always hear?

THIS REGULAR SEASON MEANT NOTHING

I'm not even looking for an iron-clad argument, I just want a good argument that you can make that one of these three teams is better than the other. Even better, give me an argument that one is worse than the other three.

You tell me Oklahoma is the worst because they lost late. I can tell you that they had the hardest schedule. You tell me LSU gets left out for their crappy schedule, I tell you they also have the most quality wins. You tell me USC gets left out because they lost to the worst team, I tell you they were playing the best football at the end of the season of the three teams. There is no definitive answer!

So you go back to sitting there, longingly hoping for the good old days to come back (how was that Pac-10, Big 10 Rose Bowl last year, btw). Or, come join those of us on "the dark side" wanting change, a change for the better, where the best teams get to prove they are the best.

SI

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by sterlingice
[BEven better, give me an argument that one is worse than the other three.[/b]

One of these teams is not a conference champion.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
One of these teams is not a conference champion.

That same team still has the best conference record even after losing tonight. That hardly seems fair, especially since USC doesn't even have a conference title game.

SI

[Marmel]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Personally, I think only conference champs should be eligible, but I think they system as-is is the best way to pit the two most deserving teams head-to-head and preserve college football history and tradition.

I'd prefer a re-vamped BCS most of all.

Fair enough. But with the college football balance of power moving to 5 conferences, and only a few teams in each conference really having a claim to being 'the best', I would say the chances of the best two teams being in the same conference has a decent enough chance of actually happening every now and then. In that case, you would want a non-conference champ to be there.


Its not like every other sport in the known universe has it wrong.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Pumpy Tudors
Playoffs don't prove the "best" team is any sport. I'm not saying that playoffs are a bad idea. I'm just arguing the semantics.

For me - in any sport - it's about surviving the regular season and winning the post-season. It's not about being perfect. That's one of the reasons why I enjoy pro football so much more than college football. There is no rhyme or reason to who beats who. It's about weekly matchups and game planning for your opponent. It's a long season and nearly every team loses at least once. The biggest mistake is attempting to "rank" teams when there is no way to make sense of what they've done in comparison to each other, regardless of the amount of stats you look at, or the amount of computers you use to analyze it.

[sooner333]

It's all about who you played and beat. LSU and OU played better teams and beat them except one time. USC lost to a bad team and didn't beat anyone that good. That's about all I have to say about the regular season meaning something.

Granted, I think if you had a playoff like in lower divisions with HOME games until the finals, then it could work. Any system with more than one neutral site game would not work with me. I guess you could have the other bowl games happening at the same time. The real losers would be the Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Orange, Capital One, Cotton that wouldn't have the big names in their bowls. I don't know, I just like the tradition and the regular season meaning something.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by sterlingice
That same team still has the best conference record even after losing tonight. That hardly seems fair, especially since USC doesn't even have a conference title game.

SI

you asked for a concrete reason, there it is. Within the confines of college football as we know it, that is a very compelling argument for why OU is less deserving than LSU or USC.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by sooner333
I just like the tradition and the regular season meaning something.

The regular season does mean something. It means you have to win enough games to get into the playoffs. Are the regular seasons of pro and college basketball, baseball, soccer, and hockey, and the NFL regular season, meaningless? No, they are not. They determine who gets to play for the grand prize.

[sooner333]

Well, in pro basketball you have to be in the top half of the league, same with hockey, the NFL is a bit tougher, and baseball is actually pretty meaningful, but as we've seen two wildcard teams win the past two years you don't need to win your own division (haha, there goes your "must win your conference arguement" for all you guys advocating a playoff). And I'll take your word for it in soccer, because I don't care.

Anyway, the Ivy league is the only one where the regular season matters in hoops, since anyone can go to the conference tournament and win and then go to the big dance. So you're wrong there.

I'm thinking a playoff could happen, especially if you include ALL conference champion winners, that would help the regular season matter. Anyway, I like how a loss to Cal basically could have cost USC at a chance, you need to be perfect to guarantee your way into the big game.

[IMetTrentGreen]

i just want to point out what happens when jason white gets pressured. he goes back to being the same limp-ass, crappy QB he was two years ago

fuck oklahoma. i can't even enjoy their loss

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by sooner333
Anyway, the Ivy league is the only one where the regular season matters in hoops, since anyone can go to the conference tournament and win and then go to the big dance. So you're wrong there.

Hmmm...I was unaware that the only teams to make it to The Big Dance were tournament winners. Unless I missed some programming on ESPN the week before Selection Sunday, I think teams who played well during the regular season but failed to win their conference tournament still get invited to The Big Dance.

Also, you're mixing arguments. I was referring specifically to college football in another post about having to win your conference to play for the championship (given the current setup, I think that should be a requirement, but only if all conferences either do or do not have a champ. game). I was not referring to that point when discussing a possible playoff system. All I said was that you have win enough games to get in, which could be by way of division/conference title or wildcard.

[sooner333]

Yeah, but tell that to the best teams in the lower level conference. The regular season doesn't mean jack to them. I just don't see how anyone (not you KSyrup) can say hey, you need to win your conference to win a national championship and then recognize the Marlins as World Series Champs.

Plus, if this game wasn't a "special game", OU would have won their conference.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by sooner333
Yeah, but tell that to the best teams in the lower level conference. The regular season doesn't mean jack to them. I just don't see how anyone (not you KSyrup) can say hey, you need to win your conference to win a national championship and then recognize the Marlins as World Series Champs.

Come on, now. In college basketball, teams from conferences I never even knew existed make the tournament as the second team from their conference when they are obviously good (22-25 wins) but fail to win their conference tournament. So I don't buy that argument one bit.

And again, on the conference championship pre-requisite, I only think that should be required in college football because there is NOT a playoff system. Since there IS a playoff system in baseball and nearly every other sport I care about, I believe non-division/conference champ can be a valid contender for the league championship, since they make the playoffs under whatever the requirements are for that league. College football insists on doing it another way, so I have to judge the way they do it, and the requirements for winning a college football championship, differently.

[ISiddiqui]

Wouldn't it be so nice to see OU/Michigan and LSU/USC and then the winners play for the Title?

We can only wish. College football needs a playoff and needs it bad. Whichever of the 3 gets left out has a legitimate beef with the system. Hopefully this adds more leverage to kicking out the B(C)S.

[Huckleberry]

Hopefully USC is #1 in the AP poll and plays #4 Michigan in the Rose Bowl and wins.

Then we can have a split national championship in the BCS era.

[SlapBone]

Ok guys... don't ask Scarecrow any more questions about Snyder

[the_meanstrosity]

You do realize that was a Bill Snyder coached the KSU team that lost to Northern Iowa right?

As for Snyder being a "coaching genious", that's a bit much. He's a fantastic coach without a doubt. His preparation and practices are phenomenal. The guy gets so much out of so little. He helped turn no name players like Terrance Newman, Darren Sproles, and so many others into viable NFL players. Absolutely amazing work.

But he's known by most knowledgeable KSU fans as just an average game day coach. He has a tendency to stick with the game plan even when it isn't working. And that's cost him some big games. He's just not great at making the necessary adjustments. But you've still got to tip your hat to the guy. He's done an incredible job with the limited talent pool he pulls from.

Sterling Ice,

And yes that was a Terry Allen coached team. I still can't figure out how that clown managed to beat Snyder at KSU. We've all seen the phenomenal work he did at Kansas and Iowa State. Iowa State fans absolutely hate Terry and he's just a TE's coach, lol.

Originally posted by Scarecrow
I'll tell you why he's a genius....

Prior to Bill Snyder came to K-State, their program was a complete joke. I remember sitting at Wagner Field in Manhattan on a cold, freezing rain night and watching the Wildcats lose to division 1-AA Northern Iowa. Sports Illustrated had just had the Wildcats on the cover of their magazine as 'The Worst Program in the History of College Sports.'

Then Bill Snyder came along.

[Huckleberry]

Darren Sproles was a no-name? Wasn't Sproles the highest rated JUCO RB in the land when he signed with KSU?

[kingfc22]

The way I look at it is OU LOST their conference title game. I don't care if some conferences do or do not have a title game. The fact remains that the Big 12 does and OU lost it. LSU and USC knew what they had to do and did it. They both WON their conferences no matter how weak or how strong one may think they are. With only 6 teams getting auto bids into the BCS there should be 2 getting into the championshp game. There is no way that a "wild-card" entry should be rewarded by being setup in the championship game without going through some kind of playoff system.

One thing is for sure. the BCS is going to have to come up with some BS the next month to explain this mess.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by the_meanstrosity
Sterling Ice,

And yes that was a Terry Allen coached team. I still can't figure out how that clown managed to beat Snyder at KSU. We've all seen the phenomenal work he did at Kansas and Iowa State. Iowa State fans absolutely hate Terry and he's just a TE's coach, lol.

Well, at Northern Iowa, he won quite a bit which is why he got a shot at a Big 12 program. Then again, the knock on him (which apparently is true) is that he couldn't recruit in the big time. Basically, if everyone had closer to equal talent (lower levels of college football) then he could win but he wasn't able to bring in Div I football talent to Kansas.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by kingfc22
The way I look at it is OU LOST their conference title game. I don't care if some conferences do or do not have a title game. The fact remains that the Big 12 does and OU lost it. LSU and USC knew what they had to do and did it. They both WON their conferences no matter how weak or how strong one may think they are. With only 6 teams getting auto bids into the BCS there should be 2 getting into the championshp game. There is no way that a "wild-card" entry should be rewarded by being setup in the championship game without going through some kind of playoff system.

One thing is for sure. the BCS is going to have to come up with some BS the next month to explain this mess.

Actually, right now, they're rigging all the computers to spit out an LSU-USC matchup as we speak.

I still don't understand this conference title argument. Then again, I view the bowl games as the only "playoff" type games where if you lose, you're out. Any other game, including the conference title games, is just another game.

SI

[sooner333]

http://www.geocities.com/rtell/

Looks like #1 OU, #2 LSU, #3 USC.

[TroyF]

One of the most shocking games I've seen.

Being an Oklahoma State fan, if OU was going to lose I wanted it to be right now. Stoopes refuses to play OSU Thanksgiving weekend because he says he wants to get ready for Big12 title tilts. Well, Bob-o, you are 2-0 in Big12 title games when you play on that weekend, a spectacular 0-1 when you don't. There goes that excuse. Schedule the game when it should be played.

As for who should play in the title game. . . I think all three deserve to go. From what I've read and seen, it looks like LSU and OU are going to play for the title and USC has a pretty good chance of being left out even if they end up #1 in all of the polls. (OU still played the strongest schedule, still has the win over Texas and will still be ranked #1 in the computer polls)

IMO, LSU is more deserving of going to the title game over any of the other three. For them to be penalized for beating Georgia twice is insane. Georgia is a top 10 team that just happened to lose two games to a better top 10 team. If LSU had beaten Florida in the SEC championship, there wouldn't be that much drama. . . they'd be going to The Sugar Bowl.

[sooner333]

Troy- I agree with everything you said...yes, even the Thanksgiving thing. The Thanksgiving thing more because I go home for thanksgiving, and I don't go home November 1st (even though I did this year), but whatever, we both have our reasons. That and its stupid the game has to be on Fox Sports Net at Thanksgiving.

I think all three teams are equally deserving. People discredit OU for losing now, but all of these teams lost. I think LSU is most deserving, but like I said, any of the three matchups wouldn't bother me. I just don't think you can throw OU out of the mix just because they lost one game at the end.

[kingfc22]

It's well known that if you lose late in college football, it is much more damaging than a loss early. Even though a loss is a loss. Even more reason for a playoff of some sort.

[korme]

WOW!!

Just got home. I am a fan of Sproles, my boys and I were watching this game and we left for a party, with the score 7-0 Oklahoma! What a night, topped off with K State scoring 35 unanswered.

[Ksyrup]

Strangely enough, I simulated a TCY season this morning in which OU (of all teams) went undefeated (in 2006), yet two 1-loss teams played for the championship. Now, which is realilty and which is a game?

[HornedFrog Purple]

Bill Snyder may suck as a coach but he has been able to do something few coaches in the country have been able to do and that is getting Bob Stoops number. Each game he has played Stoops he has lost by less with the last game losing by one point.

I made a fortune last night.

[Calis]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
Darren Sproles was a no-name? Wasn't Sproles the highest rated JUCO RB in the land when he signed with KSU?

Sproles was never a JUCO player, as for him being no-named..I don't know if I'd put it that way, he put up awesome numbers in high school, but got very little in the way of looks from most colleges because of his size. He was definitely underlooked if nothing else. Snyder was all over him from the start, and it panned out pretty well.

[the_meanstrosity]

Huckleberry and Calis,

Sproles was never a JUCO player. As for his numbers at Olathe North, you have to remember that Olathe North's running backs are accustomed to putting up numbers before and after Sproles. The only two D1A programs who looked at Sproles were Kansas and KSU. This was mainly due to his size. For Kansas, he was a plan B recruit if other bigger backs didn't sign. Snyder was the only coach who thought he could play D1A college football at the running back position.

Sterlingice,

There's no doubt that Terry Allen is a poor recruiter. But don't believe that he was a good football coach. I've had friends who were coached under him at Lawrence and they said their high school coaches were better than Terry Allen. And let's never forget the "spread offense" for which he was famous for at Northern Iowa. I shudder to think of that man in charge of another D1A football program.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Personally, I think only conference champs should be eligible, but I think they system as-is is the best way to pit the two most deserving teams head-to-head and preserve college football history and tradition.

I'd prefer a re-vamped BCS most of all.

OK, here's the problem with that. Who are the two most deserving teams. Right now, we have three teams all roughly equally deserving. Any attempt to pick the most deserving two is nothing more than a guess, despite the qualifications and/or good intentions of the one doing the guessing.

As for preserving the history and tradition of college football, I think they have already sold this in pursuit of the almighty buck. Only one bowl matters anymore, the Rose has not had its traditional matchup in a while. Do you really think that today's bowl system really preserves any of the wonderful tradition of college football? I don't, I think that having a mockery of the bowl system (what is in place now) is more insulting to that tradition than a playoff would be.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by TroyF
IMO, LSU is more deserving of going to the title game over any of the other three. For them to be penalized for beating Georgia twice is insane.

Cry me a river. I'm one of four people in the country who thinks that LSU should be left out in the cold. You want to complain about being penalized in strength of schedule, don't play La-Monroe, Arizona, Western Illinois, and La Tech. Have some balls and actually go try and play a 'Bama, Auburn, UCLA, or Dame outside of conference. Those teams on a down year are better than anyone LSU played on a good year (except 'zona in the mid 90s).

SI

[Huckleberry]

LSU had Marshall and Troy State on the schedule in place of ULM and Western Illinois.

They had to reschedule because their opponents backed out, I believe.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
Bill Snyder may suck as a coach but he has been able to do something few coaches in the country have been able to do and that is getting Bob Stoops number.

If going 1-3 against someone is "having their number", I've been underestimating a lot of people.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally posted by Vegas Vic
If going 1-3 against someone is "having their number", I've been underestimating a lot of people.

You can take the Sooner shades off for a second.

41-31 in 2000
27-24 in 2000
38-37 in 2001
7-35 in 2003

See a pattern here?

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
You can take the Sooner shades off for a second.

41-31 in 2000
27-24 in 2000
38-37 in 2001
7-35 in 2003

See a pattern here?

3 losses, 1 win. Is that the pattern?

[HornedFrog Purple]

no simply the vaunted OU defense in any year under Stoops has been unable to stop K-State coached by Snyder in any game they have played. When K-State was able to get pressure with 4 downlinemen, this game was over because OU has never been able to stop K-State when they were one-dimensional and as they have improved throwing the ball with Roberson.

It's called a trend.

[HornedFrog Purple]

dola

Since they are fun to play around with anyways here is some more trends that didn't get broken:

No B-12 champion has successfully defended the title

It has switched between the North and South division champs each season.

Whether they have any actual meaning or not, they are still fun to look at.

[the_meanstrosity]

Horned,

You have to remember that Snyder has had some talented football teams before Stoops took over Oklahoma. Stoops took over a squad that was absolutely awful and has out-coached Snyder 3-1 since coming to OU. They weren't by any means a "vaunted defense" when they faced KSU the three previous times. The fact is, Stoops probably had lesser talent, but did more with that talent until this year's matchup.

I absolutely hate the Big 12 title game. I just wish they could find a way for all of the teams to face one another in a season, but that will never happen. How I hate the organized chaos that is college football. I love the game, but hate the politics.