Tipping

[watravaler]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

If you don't want to tip for pizza delivery, that is your prerogative - but you are in the minority, and the employees are going to consider you as such. I've never seen a fellow employee spit in anyone's food (and I worked in the food industry for 9 years before I got out), but then again I never worked for the "bottom rung" of Domino's/Pizza Hut/etc.

You bring up many good points, nice post. However, the turnover at these places allow the bad/no-tip crowd to feel fairly safe about the possibility of "extra" toppings. The drivers at these places are so over-worked, most of the them don't remember that someone is a bad tipper until they appear at the front door for the second time. Just don't order from these places more than once a month if you don't believe in tipping the delivery man.

[Vince, Pt. II]

While this is true...most point-of-sale software creates a "file" for a customer once they have ordered. The file typically has two comment fields - one that is publicly visible ("Go around the corner, it's the third house. Address hard to read."), and another that is not publicly visible, only visible to employees on the computer ("This girl is a bitch. She will start yelling for no apparent reason. Try not to piss her off."). Those comments are permanent, so even if the individual drivers don't know about them, notorious people will become notorious.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Tips - To Insure Prompt Service. As you've seen from other comments, people who tip well consistently are looked out for. Drivers (and in-house workers) will work harder to insure that the pizzas are made on time, and that they go out correctly and promptly. If there is extra food (a pizza or side order made incorrectly), it might find its way into the consistent customer's order free of charge as a thank you for being a good customer, instead of in the back room for the employees to enjoy as a reward for working hard.

The delivery driver works his job under the assumption that he is going to get tipped. He didn't invent tipping culture, but he took his job with the tipping culture in mind. Being a pizza delivery driver is a two-edged sword - you can make pretty decent money, but again...you have to deal with assholes. While you say that "Gino" has nothing to worry about if he wasn't the problem...you still aren't tipping him. So it instantly becomes his problem.

Do you tip waiters in restaurants? By your logic, you completely and totally shouldn't. It is their job to bring you the food, refill the drinks, and such. Why are you tipping them if they are simply doing their job?

It is rare that a delivery company will pay their employee for wear and tear on their cars or gas - part of the territory is that they are going to get tipped, and that is intended to cover the costs associated with delivering. If you aren't tipping the delivery driver, you're directly impacting his income. Delivery drivers deserve a tip more than waiters do, more often than not - they are utilizing their car to offer you a service (you don't have to leave your house). Using a car puts mileage, wear and tear, and uses gas (which is expensive as hell), so they are not only "doing their job," but they are spending their own resources on your behalf.

If you don't want to tip for pizza delivery, that is your prerogative - but you are in the minority, and the employees are going to consider you as such. I've never seen a fellow employee spit in anyone's food (and I worked in the food industry for 9 years before I got out), but then again I never worked for the "bottom rung" of Domino's/Pizza Hut/etc.

You obviously missed my original post in this thread where I clearly stated that I do indeed tip delivery guys, I just resent them for it. I also stated why I feel wait staff are different: the quality of their service has a massive range, and has a large impact on the enjoyment of the restaurant. A good waiter/waitress makes a huge difference when compared to an average or mediocre one. Those people deserve to be rewarded. Now, again, due to cultural pressures, I tip the average and mediocre ones as well, but again, I resent them for it.

I also think that its pretty lame to tip based on the hope of maybe getting slipped a bonus pizza once in a blue moon. Oh yay! I just paid $50 in tips over the last 10 orders so that someone could spiff me a small leftover pizza. Good deal!

One thing that is amazing me in this thread is that a bunch of Americans are arguing as proponents for peer-pressure-induced socialism. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ultimate capitalists? And yet you argue that its good to subsidize the wage of average employees who took jobs 'expecting' tips for doing nothing more than what they are supposed to be doing in the first place? For some reason it's evil to force everyone in the country to help pay for healthcare (SOCIALISTS!) but it's perfectly ok to instil a culture that essentially requires subsidizing the paycheques of people who are unable/unwilling to get themselves into a better occupation? This baffles me.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You obviously missed my original post in this thread where I clearly stated that I do indeed tip delivery guys, I just resent them for it. I also stated why I feel wait staff are different: the quality of their service has a massive range, and has a large impact on the enjoyment of the restaurant. A good waiter/waitress makes a huge difference when compared to an average or mediocre one. Those people deserve to be rewarded. Now, again, due to cultural pressures, I tip the average and mediocre ones as well, but again, I resent them for it.

I also think that its pretty lame to tip based on the hope of maybe getting slipped a bonus pizza once in a blue moon. Oh yay! I just paid $50 in tips over the last 10 orders so that someone could spiff me a small leftover pizza. Good deal!

One thing that is amazing me in this thread is that a bunch of Americans are arguing as proponents for peer-pressure-induced socialism. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ultimate capitalists? And yet you argue that its good to subsidize the wage of average employees who took jobs 'expecting' tips for doing nothing more than what they are supposed to be doing in the first place? For some reason it's evil to force everyone in the country to help pay for healthcare (SOCIALISTS!) but it's perfectly ok to instil a culture that essentially requires subsidizing the paycheques of people who are unable/unwilling to get themselves into a better occupation? This baffles me.

WELCOME TO HOLLYWOOD!!!

[Fidatelo]

lol

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

One thing that is amazing me in this thread is that a bunch of Americans are arguing as proponents for peer-pressure-induced socialism. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ultimate capitalists? And yet you argue that its good to subsidize the wage of average employees who took jobs 'expecting' tips for doing nothing more than what they are supposed to be doing in the first place? For some reason it's evil to force everyone in the country to help pay for healthcare (SOCIALISTS!) but it's perfectly ok to instil a culture that essentially requires subsidizing the paycheques of people who are unable/unwilling to get themselves into a better occupation? This baffles me.

+1.

I tip because it's expected and I'm called cheap if I don't, or the server/waitress/delivery guy/whatever scowls at me for not tipping. But I'd like for it to be socially acceptable to only tip when it's deserved. Why don't we tip fast food workers too? Burgers and subs I get at places vary in quality too.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Once your "get the owner of the restaurant to pay someone a decent wage so I don't have to tip them anymore" revolution is successful, let me know. Until then the tips are what these people live on and should be seen as the price of going out to eat.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

One thing that is amazing me in this thread is that a bunch of Americans are arguing as proponents for peer-pressure-induced socialism. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ultimate capitalists? And yet you argue that its good to subsidize the wage of average employees who took jobs 'expecting' tips for doing nothing more than what they are supposed to be doing in the first place? For some reason it's evil to force everyone in the country to help pay for healthcare (SOCIALISTS!) but it's perfectly ok to instil a culture that essentially requires subsidizing the paycheques of people who are unable/unwilling to get themselves into a better occupation? This baffles me.

You mean as opposed to allowing them to make minimum wage? Servers at restaurants, at least, are paid less than the stated minimum wage, because it is assumed that tips will cover the rest to allow them to make minimum wage. Is it more "socialist" to increase the minimum wage for those people or to have the consumer pay them a tip on a sliding scale based on their performance?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Servers in MA make $2.15/hr last I saw.

[ISiddiqui]

It is similar in Georgia.

[MikeVic]

How can a place pay someone below minimum wage? Isn't that in place so, you know, people make a MINIMUM WAGE? I haven't heard of this before, and I'm pretty sure that's not how it works here.

$2.15/hour?? What the fuck?

[DaddyTorgo]

tips are counted as part of the income. as long as tips make up the difference it's legal.

The following is from the U.S. Dept. Of Labors web-site regarding wages for tipped employees.

A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

While this is true...most point-of-sale software creates a "file" for a customer once they have ordered. The file typically has two comment fields - one that is publicly visible ("Go around the corner, it's the third house. Address hard to read."), and another that is not publicly visible, only visible to employees on the computer ("This girl is a bitch. She will start yelling for no apparent reason. Try not to piss her off."). Those comments are permanent, so even if the individual drivers don't know about them, notorious people will become notorious.

Yes, drivers know which houses are good and which ones are bad, people talk. And good houses will get their food first if a good house and a bad house are close enough that the driver takes two orders at once, even if the bad house ordered first.

The two pizza places I delivered for both paid slightly under minimum wage ($5 p/h), both management and drivers knew that the majority of money drivers made would come from tips.

[lungs]

I've never worked for tips but I've gone out on late night missions to punish bad tippers with friends that did work for tips.

[Fidatelo]

Wow, I'm with MikeVic, I can't understand being allowed to pay under minimum wage.

I guess what it comes down to then is that I'm mad that your tip-based pay-scale has, through cultural intermingling, infected my socialist society to the point where I now pay pizza guys both a true minimum wage as well as a culturally required tip, virtually regardless of service performance. They are getting their cake and eating it too.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Blame your socialist brethren, not us ultracapitalists then.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Wow, I'm with MikeVic, I can't understand being allowed to pay under minimum wage.

I guess what it comes down to then is that I'm mad that your tip-based pay-scale has, through cultural intermingling, infected my socialist society to the point where I now pay pizza guys both a true minimum wage as well as a culturally required tip, virtually regardless of service performance. They are getting their cake and eating it too.

great post!

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I now pay pizza guys both a true minimum wage as well as a culturally required tip, virtually regardless of service performance. They are getting their cake and eating it too.

Don't they qualify as 'generally tipped' employees? I interviewed for a pizza delivery job (many years ago) that had NO hourly wage. I would have gotten the 75 cent fee they charge, plus tips.

[MikeVic]

I don't have anymore to say, except that I highly disagree with that law.

Are there states that don't allow this?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't have anymore to say, except that I highly disagree with that law.

Are there states that don't allow this?

Alaska, California, Nevada, Oregon and Washington outright require the minimum rate to be the same for tipped and non-tipped employees (tip credit is not allowed).

Minnesota and Montana allow small businesses to pay a lower minimum wage than large businesses, but the rate is the same for both tipped and non-tipped employees. Nevada has different rates depending on whether health insurance is offered as a benefit by the employer.

New Mexico is listed under the "State Law does not allow Tip Credit" part of the Department of Labor's chart, but has a lower minimum rate for tipped employees than non-tipped. It's kind of fucked up and I wonder if it was meant to go in the next section down, which is all about which states do permit the tip credit.

There are a significant number of states which permit the tip credit only so long as the tips earned plus the minimum rate paid is equal to at least 50 cents greater than the minimum wage.

Source: U.S. Department of Labor - Employment Standards Administration (ESA) - Wage & Hour Divisions (WHD) - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees

[MikeVic]

Thanks!

[MikeVic]

So is this the origin of tipping? Making up the salary that people should be getting to be able to live? Why the hell am I tipping crappy service then.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You obviously missed my original post in this thread where I clearly stated that I do indeed tip delivery guys, I just resent them for it. I also stated why I feel wait staff are different: the quality of their service has a massive range, and has a large impact on the enjoyment of the restaurant. A good waiter/waitress makes a huge difference when compared to an average or mediocre one. Those people deserve to be rewarded. Now, again, due to cultural pressures, I tip the average and mediocre ones as well, but again, I resent them for it.

I also think that its pretty lame to tip based on the hope of maybe getting slipped a bonus pizza once in a blue moon. Oh yay! I just paid $50 in tips over the last 10 orders so that someone could spiff me a small leftover pizza. Good deal!

One thing that is amazing me in this thread is that a bunch of Americans are arguing as proponents for peer-pressure-induced socialism. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ultimate capitalists? And yet you argue that its good to subsidize the wage of average employees who took jobs 'expecting' tips for doing nothing more than what they are supposed to be doing in the first place? For some reason it's evil to force everyone in the country to help pay for healthcare (SOCIALISTS!) but it's perfectly ok to instil a culture that essentially requires subsidizing the paycheques of people who are unable/unwilling to get themselves into a better occupation? This baffles me.

Why tip someone for poor service? While I will argue until I'm blue in the face in defense of people who work in tip-related jobs, even I understand that if someone provides poor service that they shouldn't expect as much (or any) tip. A tip is a gratuity - a thank you for providing good service. There were evenings while I was a waiter when I had to pick up the slack for other people, and ended up waiting on 10 or more tables at one time. I understood that as such, I wasn't able to get to everyone as quickly as I would like, and that my tips would suffer as a result. Being in the food service industry, you tend to see plenty of customers that resent you, and a lot of times for reasons that are completely unfathomable to you. It's frustrating for someone to resent you for no apparent reason, and makes it difficult to continue to provide top notch service for them.

As for tipping in order to receive free food...obviously you aren't tipping in the hopes that you get free crap. That happens rarely, if ever. It's a perk.

To claim that waiters and waitresses are people who are unable or unwilling to get "better jobs" and are relying on everyone else to subsidize their paychecks...that seems fairly ridiculous to me. A vast majority of waiters and waitresses are students who need the schedule flexibility, or are recent graduates holding onto the job while they look for a "real" job.

If we want to break my opinion down completely...why the heck are you resentful of someone because you feel obligated to pay them something you don't think they deserve? Just don't pay them - it's optional for a reason.

While I was a server, I would have happily taken your resentment though - as long as you tipped me, you could have been the biggest asshole on the planet and I would have considered it a fair trade.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

To claim that waiters and waitresses are people who are unable or unwilling to get "better jobs" and are relying on everyone else to subsidize their paychecks...that seems fairly ridiculous to me. A vast majority of waiters and waitresses are students who need the schedule flexibility, or are recent graduates holding onto the job while they look for a "real" job.

I wasn't claiming waitresses or waiters are those people, I was more referring to pizza delivery men, but whatever, it probably holds true. If you don't like your job, then quit. If the job works because it fits your school schedule, then hey, that's worth something, right? I still think my opinion holds true: if you think you should get tips just because you face a customer, as opposed to the millions of other occupations where people work for low wages but are nicely hidden away, then I think that's 'fairly ridiculous'.

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

If we want to break my opinion down completely...why the heck are you resentful of someone because you feel obligated to pay them something you don't think they deserve? Just don't pay them - it's optional for a reason.

Except I can't reasonably stiff someone because, according to the social code in this part of the world, then I look like an asshole. I'd rather just bitterly leave a nice tip than be considered a cheap bastard by everyone around me, but it doesn't make my opinion any less relevant.

Now, as I've learned above, it seems that, in the US, the tipping is essentially required because the wait staff or delivery guys are literally earning peanuts otherwise. So if that's the case, then fine. But up here, those guys make the same base coin as everyone at McDonald's or in a clothing store or whatever, and yet for some reason I'm expected to tip them because hey, that's the social convention. I just don't get it, and it bugs me.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

While I was a server, I would have happily taken your resentment though - as long as you tipped me, you could have been the biggest asshole on the planet and I would have considered it a fair trade.

Here is the other thing: I'm not an asshole to servers, pizza people, whatever. I treat them quite nicely, sometimes overly nice in fact - I've been told I go too soft on them. Whatever my opinion on social conventions regarding tipping, it doesn't give me a right to be a dick.

[Passacaglia]

You can get cake delivered in Canada? I'm there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

But up here, those guys make the same base coin as everyone at McDonald's or in a clothing store or whatever, and yet for some reason I'm expected to tip them because hey, that's the social convention. I just don't get it, and it bugs me.

Sounds to me like you overvalue the social aspect of tipping too much. It's sort of akin to being polite to some asshole you loathe because you prefer that than the other options. I'd say that's something we all deal with to some extent everyday. But based on your comments it sounds to me as though you ought to definitely be madder at both cross-culturization and the impact of social pressure than at the service industry, the latter is really just a symptom of a bigger issue for you.

And boy were your comments on this confusing the hell out of me until my brain finally registered "he's in Canada stupid" Makes a great deal more sense once I got that part.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Here is the other thing: I'm not an asshole to servers, pizza people, whatever. I treat them quite nicely, sometimes overly nice in fact - I've been told I go too soft on them. Whatever my opinion on social conventions regarding tipping, it doesn't give me a right to be a dick.

To clarify, I didn't think you were an asshole, that was a generalization. I'm glad to hear you treat people well...the people that don't annoy the heck out of me.

I guess this is just one of those things...I was not only born and raised within this culture, but tips accounted for about 90% of my income for just under 10 years of my life. I have wholeheartedly accepted the social convention of tipping, and I don't know that I could possibly be convinced otherwise.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sounds to me like you overvalue the social aspect of tipping too much.

Bingo. I'd imagine that in a place where the servers make the same as other min wage earners, not tipping as well wouldn't be seen that poorly. Hell, even down here, if I think someone has done a super crappy job, I won't tip them well (unless I usually go to a place and that poor service is rare).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Bingo. I'd imagine that in a place where the servers make the same as other min wage earners, not tipping as well wouldn't be seen that poorly. Hell, even down here, if I think someone has done a super crappy job, I won't tip them well (unless I usually go to a place and that poor service is rare).

I'm probably less tolerant of bad service than average (I know that's a shock to most FOFC'ers ) but I tend to take tipping as part & parcel of dining out.

I'm a pretty strict 15% for average guy, 20%-25% if I'm really impressed or occasionally if I see you're getting stiffed by an 8-person table while I'm still getting decent service. But I'll zero your ass if you aren't meeting reasonable minimum standards & I'll make sure to give management an opportunity to train up to boot.

But by the same token, I'll also speak to mgmt on the way out to praise good efforts, especially in a few places where I know they're somewhat open to that, if I know the server is new but I like the work ethic I see, they're trying hard but fighting an uphill battle due to other issues in the restaurant, etc.

[Blackadar]

Marriott to urge guests to tip their housekeepers as part of new campaign - The Washington Post

I'm not tipping housekeepers. I'm tired of this "tipping economy" where companies underpay their workers and expect me to make up the difference. If Marriott thinks their employees need a raise, as their employer, Marriott is in the perfect position to rectify the situation! I'm Executive Platinum Marriott customer too.

For those who think I'm cheap, I travel for business all the time. My customers generally will not pay for tips for hotel rooms. So if I left $3 per day, I'd be out somewhere around $400-$500 per year. I don't see anyone else asking me to fork over a monthly car payment or November's monthly food budget because someone else underpaid their employees.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Marriott to urge guests to tip their housekeepers as part of new campaign - The Washington Post

I'm not tipping housekeepers. I'm tired of this "tipping economy" where companies underpay their workers and expect me to make up the difference. If Marriott thinks their employees need a raise, as their employer, Marriott is in the perfect position to rectify the situation! I'm Executive Platinum Marriott customer too.

For those who think I'm cheap, I travel for business all the time. My customers generally will not pay for tips for hotel rooms. So if I left $3 per day, I'd be out somewhere around $400-$500 per year. I don't see anyone else asking me to fork over a monthly car payment or November's monthly food budget because someone else underpaid their employees.

I don't travel as much as I once did, but this echos my thoughts. My employer wouldn't cover it either. No way in hell I could have afforded to tip 3 bucks a night.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Marriott to urge guests to tip their housekeepers as part of new campaign - The Washington Post

I'm not tipping housekeepers. I'm tired of this "tipping economy" where companies underpay their workers and expect me to make up the difference. If Marriott thinks their employees need a raise, as their employer, Marriott is in the perfect position to rectify the situation! I'm Executive Platinum Marriott customer too.

For those who think I'm cheap, I travel for business all the time. My customers generally will not pay for tips for hotel rooms. So if I left $3 per day, I'd be out somewhere around $400-$500 per year. I don't see anyone else asking me to fork over a monthly car payment or November's monthly food budget because someone else underpaid their employees.

I think Marriott enjoys a hearty "eff you" for this policy. The bolded says it all

I hate the idea of tipping in this country, as is. And not because I'm cheap but because of its depressing effect on wages and all the evidence that has come out that it's horribly discriminatory

SI

[Logan]

At least the motivation is much clearer here than what all the hotels are doing now with "we care about the environment, and washing towels every day is a waste of water" BS.

I'm a very good tipper in general but something about the maid service really burns me up. Maybe it's because they are literally doing their job and nothing more. I don't even want or care for regular service when I'm in a hotel anyway. I put up the Do Not Disturb sign and I can get by with what's in the room. The exception being all inclusives where they stock the mini bar...then I'll tip. If for some reason I need more towels, I'll call and request them and tip a couple bucks to whoever comes to the door.

[molson]

You should tip if you take a huge dump in the bed, or if any prostitutes die in your room.

Otherwise, this really is a place where a line needs to be drawn. Do we have to tip the people that clean and wash the rental car when we're done with it? What about the people that clean up the stadium after a game?

[Lathum]

I worked for tips as a bartender for years and I am fully in the camp of it makes no sense to tip housekeeping.

You tip when you receive prompt, courteous service or someone goes above and beyond. Servers, bartenders, delivery people, etc… How exactly does housekeeping fit in to that criteria? I never see them and if I am at work or vacation I really have no clue if they were prompt or not. The exception is if I am on a cruise or at a resort and they make monkeys or something out of the towel.

[CraigSca]

I'm in the same boat - it's almost a "so you won't feel bad" economy. It's the same for me when I order a coffee from Dunkin Donuts - I'm not asking for a double latte with caramel and whipped cream. I just want a coffee - why do i feel bad, then, when I see the tip jar out and I ignore it?

I've done the same with housepkeeping - sometimes I remember, sometimes I forget, and sometimes I think, "this is coming out of my own pocket" when on business trips. I don't know, I've had a couple times where the housekeeper gives you extra soap or something, but it's not like you're getting extra or better service by paying attention to them.

[Izulde]

OTOH, some people might want to play just the tip with their housekeepers.

On a more serious note, I've tipped housekeeping before, but only if I'm staying in the same room at least 3 nights in a row. Less than that, I don't.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm a very good tipper in general but something about the maid service really burns me up. Maybe it's because they are literally doing their job and nothing more. I don't even want or care for regular service when I'm in a hotel anyway. I put up the Do Not Disturb sign and I can get by with what's in the room. The exception being all inclusives where they stock the mini bar...then I'll tip. If for some reason I need more towels, I'll call and request them and tip a couple bucks to whoever comes to the door.

This. I really do not want or need housekeeping in my room unless I'm there for like a week.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ryche

This. I really do not want or need housekeeping in my room unless I'm there for like a week.

I don't either, but as an "Executive Platinum" member if I hang a Do Not Disturb sign on my door for a couple of days, I WILL get a call from hotel management to inquire what they can do to help me. I'd rather not deal with the call, so I don't bother hanging the DND sign out anymore.

[dubb93]

Had something hit my Facebook feed the other day from someone whom I haven't had contact with since high school. They were bitching about people tipping them with credit/debit cards. Gist of it was to always remember, if you tip someone with a card that you should always tip them more because that money gets attached to their wages and they have to pay taxes on it. Definitely pissed me off when I read it.

[NobodyHere]

Being the cheap bastard that I am, I generally will not go places where I am expected to tip. It seems to me that it is an underhanded way to get customers to pay more for the same service.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Had something hit my Facebook feed the other day from someone whom I haven't had contact with since high school. They were bitching about people tipping them with credit/debit cards. Gist of it was to always remember, if you tip someone with a card that you should always tip them more because that money gets attached to their wages and they have to pay taxes on it. Definitely pissed me off when I read it.

That's someone who deserves to get bitch slapped.

[SackAttack]

They have to pay tax on the cash tip, too. It's just that some of them "forget" to claim cash tips.

That's just one of a handful of things that have struck me the last few days. I saw a bumper sticker that read "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Not a new concept, but what it made me think of is the general gist that efforts to keep guns out of the hands of bad people will only harm "law-abiding" citizens.

I thought about that as the car with that bumper sticker made an illegal lane change, going 15 mph above the posted speed limit in a construction zone, without signalling. I think about that as I read about tipped employees implying that you should either pay their tax for them, or help them evade taxes. I think about all the daily things I see where people break one law or another casually, but get up in arms over gun control because they're "law-abiding" citizens. When did "law-abiding" become selective?

Anyway, what I actually STARTED to post about was the upthread from a few years ago discussion of capitalism vs socialism and what it boils down to is that the tip culture is the ultimate expression of capitalism - it's allowing the business owner to pay his labor as little as possible, with society being asked to pick up the tab. The business owner earns the profits on his goods sold, and minimizes his expenses. Socialize the risk, privatize the profits? It's not *exactly* there, but anybody who rants about Obama specifically or Democrats generally being socialist while at the same time resenting the tip culture in specific businesses is a god damned hypocrite. You want your no-holds-barred capitalism?

Thanks for calling Domino's Pizza.

[Warhammer]

I've tipped a housekeeper once. We were in FL, and stayed at the hotel for several days. My youngest son had several stuffed monkeys, and each day the housekeeper arranged them in a different way doing different activities. One day they were sleeping, the next they were reading the hotel manual, the next watching TV as one read the HBO guide.

It was a small thing, but the kids loved it and looked forward to what the monkeys were doing next.

[dubb93]

I quit going to one of my favorite local restaurants when I found out that they keep the tips the servers get to help pay the payroll tax. Was too Amy's Baking Company for me. The owner says he pays them more on the hour than is standard as a way to justify it. I thought about going and just not tipping, but I just haven't been back since I found out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I quit going to one of my favorite local restaurants when I found out that they keep the tips the servers get to help pay the payroll tax. Was too Amy's Baking Company for me. The owner says he pays them more on the hour than is standard as a way to justify it. I thought about going and just not tipping, but I just haven't been back since I found out.

Shouldn't that shit be like...illegal?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I quit going to one of my favorite local restaurants when I found out that they keep the tips the servers get to help pay the payroll tax. Was too Amy's Baking Company for me. The owner says he pays them more on the hour than is standard as a way to justify it. I thought about going and just not tipping, but I just haven't been back since I found out.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Shouldn't that shit be like...illegal?

It is.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Being the cheap bastard that I am, I generally will not go places where I am expected to tip. It seems to me that it is an underhanded way to get customers to pay more for the same service.

Are you talking about everywhere, restaurants, etc...or just places like hotels, car washes, etc...?

[Desnudo]

I tip housekeeping $2-3/day. I read it was considered standard about 15 years ago and started. I figure they earn it more than most professions that get tipped, ie the lousy psycho taxi driver. Especially at a residence inn or other place with a kitchen. If you're too cheap or "can't afford" to tip the price of a latte, then leave the DnD sign on your door.