WW Small Game IX- The Cold War !! game over CIA win

[molson]

There's only one bad player here that I'm aware of. (It's me)

[ImTheCrew]

Originally Posted by molson

There's only one bad player here that I'm aware of. (It's me)

An All Blooded American Checking In, no molson you are not alone trust me.
Im the worse ive seen

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

Vote Saldana

Didn't want to let this vote go unnoticed.

[st.cronin]

ImTheCrew, editing posts is not allowed in werewolf.

[ImTheCrew]

i know cronin i hit the button accidently sorry

[ImTheCrew]

using Random.org for day 1 vote

VOTE NTN

[saldana]

wow...i havent even checked in yet (jack armstrong, all american boy checking in, btw) and i have gotten 2 votes and started a fight.

my first thought would have been to vote for narcizo, since he was the first person to cast a second vote, but bulletsponge's little vote and run thing pretty much locks me in place to

vote bulletsponge

[LoneStarGirl]

I know I am sitting this one out but.... Dont you say this about once a game? You over react a lot. You might be too high strung for Werewolf. You should play more while intoxicated so you can be more relaxed... I think that is how NTN got to be such a good wolf. He plays drunk.

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Oh my god alan, this really fucking pissed me off. Thanks for making this game my last; I knew I was a bad player but damn, you don't have to rub in it.

unvote saldana
vote dogerchick

It's so weird, there are people I despise when I play this game but love 'em outside of werewolf.

I'm done with this game I knew I shouldn't have come back.

[path12]

I like playing with DC. I think she's a better player than she thinks she is.

[saldana]

and fwiw dodgerchick, assuming you come back and read this, i would be willing to wager anything you want that alan meant 'bad' as in 'wolf', not 'bad' as in 'not a good ww player'

its an argument we often have on day ones, that there are certain people that you dont vote for because their upside can be so much. I for one will never vote for blade, barkeep, hoops, or lathum on day one, and there is a long list of others that i would only if there were a really good case against them. i am apparently on alan's list, which is all he was saying

[st.cronin]

This is what I have:

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Dodgerchick 1 -- AlanT (70)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, Beargrowlz, DaddyTorgo

I also agree that Alan was accusing DC of being a wolf, not a poor player. I think DC is a fine player.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This is what I have:

Ntndeacon 4 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 1 -- Dodgerchick (94)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Dodgerchick 1 -- AlanT (70)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

What are the numbers in parenthesis?

[st.cronin]

I'm not happy about voting for ntn, but being second I can't really afford to vote for anybody else. Bulletsponge and ITC's votes jump out at me as highly questionable. Those two have really pinged my radar.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

What are the numbers in parenthesis?

That's the post # where the player cast the vote.

[beargrowlz]

Ahh, thanks.

[ImTheCrew]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not happy about voting for ntn, but being second I can't really afford to vote for anybody else. Bulletsponge and ITC's votes jump out at me as highly questionable. Those two have really pinged my radar.

lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!

[path12]

You've got DC listed twice with one vote.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!

Ain't werewolf great?

[path12]

Have a meeting and then commute, out until after deadline. God Bless America!

[molson]

Originally Posted by saldana

its an argument we often have on day ones, that there are certain people that you dont vote for because their upside can be so much. I for one will never vote for blade, barkeep, hoops, or lathum on day one, and there is a long list of others that i would only if there were a really good case against them. i am apparently on alan's list, which is all he was saying

This makes perfect sense, but the one thing that annoyed me in my previous WW game was how much player reputation and what happened in prior games came into the discussions. I guess that kind of wrinkle can be interesting once you've been around the block, but it would be a purer kind of game if everyone had an annonymous, maybe using an alisas. It'd be interesting to try once (though I'm sure some people would still stand out).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Oh my god alan, this really fucking pissed me off. Thanks for making this game my last; I knew I was a bad player but damn, you don't have to rub in it.

unvote saldana
vote dogerchick

It's so weird, there are people I despise when I play this game but love 'em outside of werewolf.

I'm done with this game I knew I shouldn't have come back.

DC, Sorry if I wasn't very clear, I was in a rush in typing earlier. I definitly did mean bad as in evil, not bad as in poor. I try to never personally insult people in these games, and by no means meant to here. I apologize if you felt that way as I do enjoy playing with you.

I simply meant your move meant bad (wolfish). sorry if it hurt your feelings, that was not my intent.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by molson

This makes perfect sense, but the one thing that annoyed me in my previous WW game was how much player reputation and what happened in prior games came into the discussions. I guess that kind of wrinkle can be interesting once you've been around the block, but it would be a purer kind of game if everyone had an annonymous, maybe using an alisas. It'd be interesting to try once (though I'm sure some people would still stand out).

we have had that discussion before, and it is pretty much unavoidable when you have played in as many games as some people have. there is a converse though...there are some people that will always vote for me...dubb and i have screwed each other so many times that we vote for each other pretty much exclusively on day one


the anonymous game would be a very fun game that i may pursue further, unless you claim rights to it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by ImTheCrew

lol no matter who i vote for it is supisucious so i used random.org this time and it still is, wow!

There are some circumstances where a random vote is ok. When there are two players with multiple votes, that's not one of them. Especially when your vote lands on one of those players.

I don't know what to think about ntn, though, its kind of an unusual bandwagon.

[beargrowlz]

Hrrm, probably over-analyzing this, but in assuming the KGB agents can talk to each other via PM, I think it would make sense for them to combine their efforts and remove a true CIA agent through vioting, making their work easier at night.

So assuming that, I'm leery of MollyMurphy, Narcizo, ITC and St. Cronin, all for going after NTN. However, NTN did make the jingoistic, over the top commie hunting statement to start the game off - which would be rather KGBish IMHO.

I buy St. Cronin's argument for why he's voting for NTN, he's in second and if he doesn't get someone else arrested he's going to the gallows. MollyMurphy listed no reason, which piques my curiosity. ITC's use of random.org, while I suppose is possible, doesn't seem very likely to me. Still, it's possible.

As for Narcizo, it's possible that he was just casting a second vote to stir discussion, but it is just as likely that he was doing so in concert with other KGBers in order to eliminate a true CIA agent in NTN.

So again, like I said, I am probably over-analyzing this, but to me it comes down to whether I think there are agents acting in concert with each other, or whether NTN was trying to appear extra-patriotic in an attempt to remove suspicion from himself.

I've kind of eliminated St. Cronin from earning my vote because I buy his reason for voting for NTN.

Anyone know for sure if KGB agents can Pm each other prior to votes? The WW standard rules say they can but this game doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

Anyone know for sure if KGB agents can Pm each other prior to votes? The WW standard rules say they can but this game doesn't seem to indicate one way or the other.

There have been a few games where they couldn't, or had limited ability, but its the exception rather than the rule.

Anything to add, Lathum?

[Lathum]

The KGB agents have full PM privledges

[beargrowlz]

Well, following my train of thought to its logical conclusion, given that the KGB agents can PM each other and orchestrate a first day vote to remove a true CIA agent, I feel compelled to vote for either MollyMurphy, ITC, Marcizo or St. Cronin -- despite the fact that NTN is seemingly a good choice for removal due to his over the top "lets kill all the commies" statement to start the game.

Interestingly enough though, none of the people who voted for him listed that as a reason.

Well, I have to vote for someone and I'd prefer to make a vote based on reason rather than a guess.

I'll rule out St.Cronin because I bought his reason for voting for NTN. Voting for ITC, MollyMurphy or Narcizo at this point will accomplish nothing, as no one else has voted for them.

That basically leaves NTN.

At this point I think all four of them are as equally likely to be KGB based on the information in their posts (or lack thereof).

Given that there is only one of them that a vote by me can actually remove, and because I think his post at the start of the game was a ploy, I'll be voting NTNdeacon.

I'm not real comfortable with that decision, but given how everyone else has voted and the real possibility NTN is KGB, that's the only rational choice I have atm.




Vote ntndeacon

[Alan T]

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

I think there is a space/time flux with your reasoning and your vote. Either your reasons for voting Ntn make sense and likewise others voting him would make sense to you.. or your voting for one of them for voting him makes sense.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

FWIW, it actually made sense to me.

[molson]

The only truly reasoned voted on day one are cast by spies, right? The closer the vote, the better.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So.. I've had a long day.. but let me make sure I get this right.. Molly, ITC, Narcizo and St.Cronin are all suspicious for voting NTN..

So your vote will be Ntn.

I think there is a space/time flux with your reasoning and your vote. Either your reasons for voting Ntn make sense and likewise others voting him would make sense to you.. or your voting for one of them for voting him makes sense.

Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive though.

I think there are good reasons to vote for NTN - his post earlier with the kill all the commies thing.

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.

Given my reasoning, that would make 6 people suspect if I voted for NTN (Cronin, Molly, ITC, NTN, Narcizo and me). I;m certainly not going to vote to execute myself, and I buy cronin's reasoning for voting for NTN.

That leaves four. As three of them have no votes and 1 of them has 4 votes, and my vote would lead to his execution if I vote for him and my vote would be wasted by voting for the other three, that was the deciding factor.

Of course, i could be completely wrong.

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by molson

The only truly reasoned voted on day one are cast by spies, right? The closer the vote, the better.

Well, I'm new, and as I said, I may be overanalyzing it. But I assumed most people were reading each other's posts trying to cull some reason to vote one way or the other from them.

It may very well be most first day votes are random. I'd hate to think so, but I certainly don't have the experiential knowldge of the game to argue with it.



Cheers.

[molson]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.

It would be a good strategy for spies to orchestrate a landslide vote on day 1 from which we learn nothing (or at least stand by and allow one to develop). Why would you want to help with that?

Giving someone a first vote isn't necessarily useless - people can and do change their votes quickly as we get to the deadline.

[st.cronin]

bg, fwiw, there have been plenty of times where there was all sorts of chaos at the deadline, and what looked like a pointless vote (which you're afraid of making by voting for somebody like ITC or MB) suddenly became crucial. Going against my self interest here, but I would encourage you to vote for who you think is bad, rather than worry about "wasting" your vote.

[Poli]

Cronin, fwiw, the only reason I went with you (after barkeep) is I haven't got my hat yet.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by beargrowlz

Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive though.

I think there are good reasons to vote for NTN - his post earlier with the kill all the commies thing.

But I also think it'd be good strategy for all the KGB agents to gang up and take out a CIA operative on the first night, and they have the PM ability to do so - so anyone (myself included now) who voted for NTN would be suspect.

Given my reasoning, that would make 6 people suspect if I voted for NTN (Cronin, Molly, ITC, NTN, Narcizo and me). I;m certainly not going to vote to execute myself, and I buy cronin's reasoning for voting for NTN.

That leaves four. As three of them have no votes and 1 of them has 4 votes, and my vote would lead to his execution if I vote for him and my vote would be wasted by voting for the other three, that was the deciding factor.

Of course, i could be completely wrong.

Well whatever its worth.. I usually find that more often than not I'm wrong on the first day.. Also the odds are in a random pick more likely you will get a good guy than a bad guy due to sheer numbers of good guys. So in a situation where alot of people pile on one person in what supposedly are random votes or votes based on very little insight due to not much information being out there are 4/5 of the time a poor vote.

Now lets say everyone gangs up on 2 different people. You still are less likely to hit a bad guy than good.. but now your odds are a bit better to hit a bad guy in one of the two people. Perhaps not the one you voted out, but maybe one of them. It could be useful down the road knowing who saved who is just out of sheer luck one of them turn out bad.

Or option #3 that usually is a good option is to just vote Lathum on day 1. Unfortunatly that does not apply here.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Or option #3 that usually is a good option is to just vote Lathum on day 1. Unfortunatly that does not apply here.

[Lathum]

Ntndeacon 5 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92), ITC (106) Beargrowlz (127)
St.Cronin 2 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80)
Dodgerchick 2 -- Dodgerchick (94), AlanT (70)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo

can someone double check and confirm these totals.

[Poli]

Woah, DC voted for herself?

[beargrowlz]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

bg, fwiw, there have been plenty of times where there was all sorts of chaos at the deadline, and what looked like a pointless vote (which you're afraid of making by voting for somebody like ITC or MB) suddenly became crucial. Going against my self interest here, but I would encourage you to vote for who you think is bad, rather than worry about "wasting" your vote.

Well, that makes sense.

If i do that, and disregard whether my vote will "count" or not, that cuts it down to Molly, ITC or Narcizo or St. cronin.

Cronin encouraging me to change my vote which could cause me to vote for him further amplifies my feeling that he's not KGB - either that or it's a very calculated and brilliant ploy to make me believe that he's clean. In any case, I buy his explanation. So that rules him out.

I'm not very comfortable with Narcizo's explanation nor ITC's, but I'm extremely uncomfortable with Molly's - which was non-existent.

She doesn't have any votes, but that's how I'll go then.

unvote ntndeacon
vote mollymurphy

[ImTheCrew]

Coming out and pointing the finger at me so ill change my vote

UNVOTE NTN
VOTE ST CRONIN

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Woah, DC voted for herself?

She had an ardent enthusiast moment.

[st.cronin]

Wow, just like that we're tied again, 3 each for me and ntn.

When will I learn to keep my mouth shut?

[Lathum]

Ntndeacon 3 -- MollyMurphy (55), Narcizo (68), st.cronin (92),
St.Cronin 3 -- Ardent (65), Molson (80),ITC (141)
MollyMurphy 1--Beargrowlz (140)
Dodgerchick 2 -- Dodgerchick (94), AlanT (70)
Narcizo 1 -- path12 (93)
Chief Rum 1 -- Ntndeacon (57)
Saldana 1 -- bulletsponge (100)
bulletsponge 1 -- saldana (107)

no votes: Chief Rum, DaddyTorgo
can someone double check and confirm these totals.

[Poli]

Sigh.

[st.cronin]

That's what I have, Lathum.

[Lathum]

10 minutes

[molson]

So what's the standard tiebreaking procedure?

[beargrowlz]

What happens in a tie?

[st.cronin]

Who knows, it used to oldest continuosly held vote, but that hasn't been the rule in some time.