The Official 2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[stevew]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

How has nobody on the Orlando roster shaved Elfrid Payton's head yet?

Wow, that's nuts. He needs to have a hair vs hair matchup with the Weeknd.

[jbergey22]

Westbrook is averaging a triple double. Has there ever been a more underrated NBA superstar? The numbers he has put up over the past 3 years without Durant playing beside him are crazy.

[CrescentMoonie]

Maybe Klay Thompson is going to do okay with Durant in town.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Absurd.

[CrescentMoonie]

Most points ever in the NBA by a player with under 30 minutes playing time. Second is Steph with 46.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Most points ever in the NBA by a player with under 30 minutes playing time. Second is Steph with 46.

Guessing Kobe played 31 when he had 62 in 3 quarters ? Random benchmark is random impressive as hell regardless. Westbrook with his 6th td in a row and up to 31/11/11 ok the season

[CrescentMoonie]

Westbrook getting triple doubles like that's just what you do, the Warriors scoring under 100 one time in the first 21 games (while going over 140 twice), and James Harden playing point guard like he should have always been there just scratches the surface of the first interesting NBA early season in eons, at least for multiple teams.

[CrescentMoonie]

Heard that Klay took 11 dribbles and had the ball in his hands for 88 seconds while scoring his 60 last night. That's even more ridiculous than doing it in 29 minutes.

[Brian Swartz]

Golden State sucks this year. Only on pace to win a mere 68 games.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Golden State sucks this year. Only on pace to win a mere 68 games.

Tanking

[Groundhog]

This is probably the least interested I've been in an NBA season in a long, long time.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Golden State sucks this year. Only on pace to win a mere 68 games.

As a Grizzlies fan I had to chuckle at ESPN being quick to point out that the Warriors were the short handed ones because they had to start Varejao (forget that Memphis was missing 5 players). Match-up of patch lineups? Story of the Grizzlies since 2014. Bring on the Cavs b2b now.

[Brian Swartz]

Looks like a very familiar East to last year -- so much parity. Keep waiting for 3rd on down to figure out some consistency one way or the other. Jekkyl-and-Hyde with pretty much all of them it seems, and two of my favorite teams to root for(Detroit and Boston) right in the middle of the madness.

[CrescentMoonie]

Noel already complaining about playing time in the redundant 76er frontcourt.

Meanwhile, the Wizards seem to be taking to Brooks' offensive system. Just won their 5th in the last 6 today, beating the Clippers with Beal putting up his second 40+ point game of the season.

[CrescentMoonie]

When did Al Jefferson eat Oliver Miller?

[nol]

Markelle Fultz was has looked so good this season that I'm frankly confused why none of the handful of teams within a game or so of the worst record have tried to do anything to really tear down and separate from the pack; maybe that's what Philadelphia has going with this whole Noel thing.

Jokic had an awkward start to the season but has really been getting into a groove lately, which coincides with the Nuggets putting him at center more often rather as a PF next to Nurkic. Averaging 17, 10, and 5 on 70% shooting over the 10 games in December.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Looks like a very familiar East to last year -- so much parity. Keep waiting for 3rd on down to figure out some consistency one way or the other. Jekkyl-and-Hyde with pretty much all of them it seems, and two of my favorite teams to root for(Detroit and Boston) right in the middle of the madness.

Toronto's looking pretty cemented at #2 & the rebounding issue isn't going away (I'd still love a trade centered around Nerlens for Marcus Smart), but I think the Celtics are still the clear #3 when healthy, and the numbers have been as expected when they are. Detroit's issues seem to be coming to a head with Reggie Jackson pouting just like he did in OKC & the whole team basically supporting Ish Smith.

Not really sure who'd tank before March. Dallas is the one obvious candidate but Cuban has too much loyalty to Dirk to pull the chord this early, and all the other teams either don't have their pick or are playing so many young guys already that developing them is more important than increasing your odds at Fultz by 5-10%. Maybe Miami could deal Dragic, but again, Riley isn't a tanker. (Plus I'm not sure Hassan Whiteside would take well to tanking year 1 of a $100 million contract.)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

Markelle Fultz was has looked so good this season that I'm frankly confused why none of the handful of teams within a game or so of the worst record have tried to do anything to really tear down and separate from the pack; maybe that's what Philadelphia has going with this whole Noel thing.

Jokic had an awkward start to the season but has really been getting into a groove lately, which coincides with the Nuggets putting him at center more often rather as a PF next to Nurkic. Averaging 17, 10, and 5 on 70% shooting over the 10 games in December.

I am very intrigued to see where Fultz ends up. This draft coming up looks like it will be fantastic.

I love Jokic's development, but I wish Malone would pull his head out of his ass with respect to his lineups and his frontcourt rotations. Settle on something and make it work.

[wustin]

He'll be first off the board.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by wustin

He'll be first off the board.

I think his elite athleticism and scoring skills will end up making him the best player from this draft, as uber-talented scoring guards often end up the most dominant players (MJ, Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, etc).

But there is so much talent in this draft, I don't know that he will end up #1.

I looked at NBADraft.net and they currently have Lonzo Ball #1, and Fultz #3. As a Bruins fan, I won't talk too much about Ball because I am obviously biased, but, man, he is just an amazing player to watch. He doesn't have the elite athleticism of Fultz or some other top prospects, but he's not an athletic dud at all and his vision of the court is ridiculous, almost Magic level.

Josh Jackson at Kansas has also done well from the start, and he was the other big wing that was talked about a lot from the start. He was #2 on NBADraft.net.

I haven't watched much of Isaac or Smith but they were #4 and #5. And that's before you get to either Fox or Monk with Kentucky's usual allotment of great players, or Harry Giles on Duke, the original #1 in this freshman class who just played his first college minutes just last night.

This class coming up has a chance to really reform the landscape for some of the usual lottery candidates.

[nol]

Yeah, there could easily be 5 or more players I'd prefer over anyone drafted in 2016, but I think Fultz stands out on his own. Barring a major injury he'll go number 1 (to the point that if the Wizards ended up with the first pick they would be wise to trade John Wall to make way), and even if he got hurt some teams would probably look to how Embiid's doing this year and be less likely than before to pass on that kind of superstar upside.

Especially in terms of how the game is played today rather than even just a few years ago with regards to pick-and-roll play and 3-point shooting, Fultz might be the most highly-regarded point guard prospect since at least Chris Paul.

Ball is great too but has a bit of the Ben Simmons issue where regardless of the accuracy, their shooting form is really going to cut down on their ability to create halfcourt offense for themselves. If that makes Ball a better-shooting, worse-defending Ricky Rubio that's very good still and the degree to which he's worse at defense will be the difference between whether he's an All-Star or just a very solid starter.

[Atocep]

Is it time to knock the Blazers off the list of teams that rebuilt "the right way"?

[nol]

Pistons are well on the way too. Reggie Jackson dusted off the vintage Kobe move of passive-aggressively refusing to shoot after his teammates complained he was shooting too much.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is it time to knock the Blazers off the list of teams that rebuilt "the right way"?

A little early for me as the NBA gave them a 5 in 7 and 5 in 8 road trip already this year and they failed both times(1-4 both trips). Also 1-8 against GSW, LAC, HOU, CLE, MEM this year so far. They should be fine.

[wustin]

Expecting Blazers to make some trades when some of their players are eligible to be moved by January. They have by and far the worst defense in the league and they could use someone like Nerlens Noel.

[nol]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

A little early for me as the NBA gave them a 5 in 7 and 5 in 8 road trip already this year and they failed both times(1-4 both trips). Also 1-8 against GSW, LAC, HOU, CLE, MEM this year so far. They should be fine.

On the other hand, you have to go back to 2009 to find a team with a worse defensive rating than the Blazers have (they were the single worst in he last decade before they improved it last game by losing to Dallas) and they have the 2nd-highest payroll in the league this year. Also, you have to beat other playoff teams every now and then to make the playoffs yourself - after all, those teams have to deal with injuries and schedule issues too. For example, the Clippers' three wins against them have been: on the road in the 2nd game of a back-to-back; a 31-point blowout, and a win without Blake Griffin.

Not exactly a great success if they 'rally' to be the 7th seed and get smoked by any team that doesn't happen to suffer multiple major injuries midway through the series. The double whammy of having such a highly-paid roster is that they don't even have anyone they could trade for Noel without throwing in future first rounders.

Otherwise, the 'rebuild' cosists of signing young veteran free agents, backing into the playoffs (and then into the 2nd round, and then into winning a couple games in the 2nd round) by virtue of being healthier than other teams, and then bringing in Evan Turner and re-signing their role players for lots of money.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

On the other hand, you have to go back to 2009 to find a team with a worse defensive rating than the Blazers have (they were the single worst in he last decade before they improved it last game by losing to Dallas) and they have the 2nd-highest payroll in the league this year.

Not exactly a great success if they 'rally' to be the 7th seed and get smoked by any team that doesn't happen to suffer multiple major injuries midway through the series. The double whammy of having such a highly-paid roster is that they don't even have anyone they could trade for Noel without throwing in future first rounders.

I had no idea they had so much money tied up. How on Earth does that happen on that team? They have just two standout players in Lillard and McCollum, and the jury is still kinda out on McCollum (on whether he is more than just a volume shooter).

Plumlee is decent and underrated. That is about the best I can say for the rest. Aminu is too injury prone and brings little offense. Turner is overpaid and can't shoot. Crabbe is overpaid and all he can do is shoot. Davis and Vonleh and Harkless are a mishmash of sub-average forwards that haven't shown the ability to raise their game to the next level on any consistent basis.

Seriously, I am looking at this team and wondering how on Earth they have the second highest payroll. Who the hell are they paying? The ghost of Aldridge past?

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Seriously, I am looking at this team and wondering how on Earth they have the second highest payroll. Who the hell are they paying? The ghost of Aldridge past?

They had a bunch of guys come off their rookie deals and become restricted free agents in a year that almost every every team had a ton of cap room. Turner is one of the 2-3 worst deals last offseason, McCollum is getting paid more than a lot of All-Star/franchise-caliber players who signed max deals a few years ago to be a guy who just scores 20 a game while giving back roughly the same on defense, and they hardly have any rookie or minimum deals.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by nol

On the other hand, you have to go back to 2009 to find a team with a worse defensive rating than the Blazers have (they were the single worst in he last decade before they improved it last game by losing to Dallas) and they have the 2nd-highest payroll in the league this year. Also, you have to beat other playoff teams every now and then to make the playoffs yourself - after all, those teams have to deal with injuries and schedule issues too. For example, the Clippers' three wins against them have been: on the road in the 2nd game of a back-to-back; a 31-point blowout, and a win without Blake Griffin.

Not exactly a great success if they 'rally' to be the 7th seed and get smoked by any team that doesn't happen to suffer multiple major injuries midway through the series. The double whammy of having such a highly-paid roster is that they don't even have anyone they could trade for Noel without throwing in future first rounders.

Otherwise, the 'rebuild' cosists of signing young veteran free agents, backing into the playoffs (and then into the 2nd round, and then into winning a couple games in the 2nd round) by virtue of being healthier than other teams, and then bringing in Evan Turner and re-signing their role players for lots of money.

But it's not like their eFg% is that far off (.518 off v .519 def). I know they aren't creating turnovers and they put the other team on the line way too often but how much is their schedule (3rd highest SOS right now) hurting those numbers?

Oh and yeah, you can't pay Crabbe 18.5 to come off the bench.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I had no idea they had so much money tied up. How on Earth does that happen on that team? They have just two standout players in Lillard and McCollum, and the jury is still kinda out on McCollum (on whether he is more than just a volume shooter).

Last year's success was fool's gold for them during the offseason. Icing on the cake is that McCollum's new max contract kicks in after this season so they have no wiggle room if any. No team is going to want Leonard, Crabbe, or Turner on those awful contracts unless the Blazers throw in a draft pick.

edit: A big problem for Portland in free agency is that I don't think any stars want to go to Oregon to play basketball. So with a lot of cap room they just had to spend it all on what they could keep and get, otherwise their "playoff calibur" team would lose its bench.

[wustin]

Warriors blow a 14-point lead but Cavs got a free time out and Richard Jefferson got away with tripping KD on the last play so KD couldn't get a proper shot off.

[stevew]

Yep. Home cooking at its finest.

[wustin]

It was correct to not call it since the refs don't call shit on the last play anyways. I'm sure the whole incident was accidental, it was just incredibly bad luck for the Warriors.

[stevew]

So that last shot by Kyrie. My bro and I were talking about it and Thompson basically plays nearly perfect defense on it. What % of those does Kyrie hit with that level of defense? 1/4-1/3?

[MrBug708]

That wasn't a foul, their legs got mixed up. It wasn't like he went Grayson Allen on the play

[wustin]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That wasn't a foul, their legs got mixed up. It wasn't like he went Grayson Allen on the play

Any form of tripping is a defensive foul even if it is unintentional. Intentionally tripping like what Grayson did would be a flagrant foul in the NBA.

In this case, RJ stepped on KD's foot inadvertently causing him to trip.

[BishopMVP]

Warriors also could've called timeout once KD was stumbling away from the basket.

[Brian Swartz]

Refs swallowing the whistle at the end and 'letting them play' is one of the things that bothers me the most. Rules don't change because it's at a different point in the game, and doing asserts just as much control over the outcome as blowing the darn whistle does.

[miami_fan]

So who is the target audience for George Karl's new book? Because this promotion tour has made is even less likely that this NBA fan would give it a shot.

[CrescentMoonie]

Still doubt I'll read it, but it's definitely more interesting to me than the typical sports schlock.

[nol]

"NBA players are whiny and entitled and the coach is always right" is the typical sports schlock. Just look at what people said about LeBron James and David Blatt last year.

[sovereignstar v2]

[nol]

The Heat rolled out the tanktastic starting lineup of Willie Reed, Luke Babbitt, Wayne Ellington, Rodney McGruder, and Josh Richardson yesterday. To recap Miami's post-LeBron 'rebuild' thus far...

2014-15: Replaced LeBron with a decent SF in Luol Deng and kept Bosh by offering him a full 5-year max when he was about to sign with Houston. Traded two future first-round picks for upcoming free agent Goran Dragic. Still miss the playoffs and egregiously tank down the stretch to keep their first-round pick, which becomes Justise Winslow.

2015-16: Sign Dragic to a 5 year/$90 million contract. Have a "competitive" year, although it would take a special type of incompetence for a capped-out team that's traded away as many future first-rounders as it can to miss the playoffs. Of the team's top 6 players, 4 are about to become free agents and 2 are signed to contracts that will be considered among the league's worst before they expire.

2016-17: Tanking for the second time in three years, this time starting a couple months earlier.

The Hawks might look this way in a couple months too: they're looking to trade Paul Millsap. Kinda sucks for Dwight Howard, who is having his best season since his Orlando days.

[Atocep]

He's young, but Brandon Ingram doesn't look like he has the ceiling as a scorer that was projected. I don't think it's much to ask the #2 pick that's been playing relatively heavy minutes to shoot better than 34/24/70 with a TS% of 43% and a PER of 6.4.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Atocep

He's young, but Brandon Ingram doesn't look like he has the ceiling as a scorer that was projected. I don't think it's much to ask the #2 pick that's been playing relatively heavy minutes to shoot better than 34/24/70 with a TS% of 43% and a PER of 6.4.

It's probably too much to ask from the #2 pick in the 2016 NBA draft, which categorically sucks. Pretty sure I settled on 'better version of Rashard Lewis,' which is still well within reach considering that Lewis wasn't even good enough to see the floor at that age (4.5 PER, 40% TS in just 150 minutes his rookie season).

I mean Kris Dunn, awesome streetball dribble aside, is 3 years older and has a 45% TS and 9.5 PER, so it's not like anyone selected after Ingram would be giving the Lakers any regrets. There's a pretty good chance that Ben Simmons' injury is preventing him from getting exposed in a similar way considering that Simmons scored even fewer points per game and shot an even lower percentage than Ingram did during summer league games.

[wustin]

I give Ingram a pass for everything except for his shooting. The first thing that would translate to the NBA was his ability to shoot. Even with the way he's playing right now it was correct to draft him at #2 given his talent but nobody would expect him to shoot 24% from 3 the first 2-3 months.

Maybe that FT percentage from college was a red flag after all, who knows. His free throw shooting isn't particularly great right now either.

If you look at the first 15 picks of the draft, Ingram has played the most minutes by far but his 3-point shooting has been the worst.

2016 NBA Draft | Basketball-Reference.com

[Groundhog]

Brogdon could end up being rookie of the year, you know, just like everybody expected.

[nol]

Originally Posted by wustin

I give Ingram a pass for everything except for his shooting. The first thing that would translate to the NBA was his ability to shoot. Even with the way he's playing right now it was correct to draft him at #2 given his talent but nobody would expect him to shoot 24% from 3 the first 2-3 months.

Eh, pretty much every tall player who came into the league at a young age shot poorly from 3 for at least the first season. Dirk shot 20%, Durant shot 28%, LeBron shot 29%. It's a big adjustment with the longer 3 and not being able to just pull up over people at will. It would have been a much bigger surprise if Ingram had been anywhere close to decent at this point.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Brogdon could end up being rookie of the year, you know, just like everybody expected.

Or he could end up not playing very many minutes in a few weeks when Khris Middleton and Dellavedova come back.

[nol]

Big night in Philly. Noel and Embiid played together for significant minutes for the first time, and the Sixers are up 22 on the Timberwolves early in the 3rd. Embiid with 20 points in 15 minutes so far.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by nol

Big night in Philly. Noel and Embiid played together for significant minutes for the first time, and the Sixers are up 22 on the Timberwolves early in the 3rd. Embiid with 20 points in 15 minutes so far.

I think they're a much better fit together. The Sixers were probably hoping that they could showcase Okafor a bit and someone would bite on a trade for him.

If Simmons lives up to the hype at all the Sixers could be an interesting team to watch by the end of the season and with the possibility of 2 top 5 picks in this upcoming draft things could get fun for them next year.