OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Now I have to read the previous book? Bah!

No. You don't. Read the last 30-40 pages and you'll be up to speed.

I wish I was joking.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I can loan it to you if need be.

I own it, i just stopped reading it after a few dozen pages, because I couldn't remember who was who, what was what. I had a pretty good idea of where was where, though.


bronconick - i appreciate that

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Sachmo- Honestly, no you don't. I could probably sum the book up in about 3-4 paragraphs.

• Rand got pissed and then fried some poor bastard Forsaken dude

• Perrin howled at the moon

• The dice are still tumbling in Mat's head

• Elayne and Avienda are still hotties

• The rogue Aiel captured more people and made them walk naked through the snow

• Approximately 47 new Aes Sedai characters were introduced

• The rebel Amrylin Seat seeks to seat her seat on the Seat in The White Tower, and advanced her army approximately 11.2 inches toward her goal.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

• Rand got pissed and then fried some poor bastard Forsaken dude

• Perrin howled at the moon

• The dice are still tumbling in Mat's head

• Elayne and Avienda are still hotties

• The rogue Aiel captured more people and made them walk naked through the snow

• Approximately 47 new Aes Sedai characters were introduced

• The rebel Amrylin Seat seeks to seat her seat on the Seat in The White Tower, and advanced her army approximately 11.2 inches toward her goal.

coug, you are killing me today! :LOL:

[Honolulu_Blue]

So I met George RR Martin yesterday. He was at the National Book Festival in the Mall in DC. An odd scene, considering the anti-war rally was going on a few blocks away.

Anyway, Martin followed a murderers row of authors in the Fiction/Fantasy tent: John Irving, Nail Gaiman, and Tom Wolfe. Martin talked for about 20 minutes, mainly about his career as a writer and then some about his work and the genre as a whole. He then fielded some questions.

It was great to see him. If anything his talk and the Q&A made me respect the man even more. He's got a solid head on his shoulders and was very pleasant.

Some highlights from the Q&A:

He was asked whether he gets any negative reaction from fans/critics because of how gritty/morally ambiguous and such this series is.

He said he had some (though they were way out numbered by the positive reaction), but it didn't bother him. There are a ton of fantasy writers out there and people who don't like his style can read them. He also said that the most negative reactions he got were towards the sex scenes in the book. He noted that it was quite a reflection on our society where you can describe in great detail an axe entering a man's skull and no one bats an eye, but if you describe a penis going into a vagina thousands of people flip out.

He also touched on Tolkien. He gave him mad props, of course, for his series and he loves them, but he said that it sort of put in motion a formula for the genre which has limited it a bit. Too many fantasy books are based off the Tolkien formula where the good guys where white cloaks, bad guys where black, and there is some dark force/overload trying to take over the world. The good/evil sides are pretty distinct and many stories don't go too much further than that. A good point.

As for the specifics on the series, he didn't add too much we don't already know. A Feast for Crows is coming out in November. He already has 500 pages of a Dance For Dragons written (about 50%). He is almost finished with another Dunc and Egg story (he plans to write one between each book in the series), though there will be no "Legends 3", so he's not sure where the story will be published.

He then signed books for about 2+ hours. Was very friendly there as well.

All in all, it was all good.

[WSUCougar]

Good stuff...thanks for the share, HB.

[sachmo71]

H_B,

Did Martin really give Tolkien "mad props"?? :P

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I own it, i just stopped reading it after a few dozen pages, because I couldn't remember who was who, what was what. I had a pretty good idea of where was where, though.


bronconick - i appreciate that

I think I like WSUCougar's version better, but here goes.

- Prologue has the most action, but introduces 15 new characters that you'll never see again.

- Mat creeps across Altara at roughly 50 feet per day, flirting with the 12 year old boy that apparently is his future wife. Kills a chick who tries to escape and tattle on him.

- Perrin sees ghosts and other sundry crap. Whines a lot. Doesn't make any progress.

- Lots of Elayne chapters involving sniffing, scoffing, and political stuff that would interest me if I was reading a non-fiction book. Nothing happens. No girl on girl scenes involving her and Aviendha, which is the only way to save this plotline.

- Egwene whines about headaches being given her by Halima, then at the end, they actually go out to close off the harbors to Tar Valon, and she gets her idiot self captured by the Tower.

- Rand sleeps a lot, has two chapters, I think, and at the end agrees through Bashere to meet the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" and Suroth of the Seanchan, which is interesting, considering where she actually is.

I think that was about it. Oh, and lots more sniffing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

H_B,

Did Martin really give Tolkien "mad props"?? :P

Yes. He used those words verbatim.

[JAG]

Thanks H_B. I was hoping he'd be stopping somewhere closer to MN during his Feast book tour, but it looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer to meet him.

[sachmo71]

Went ahead and preordered A Feat of Crows (again).
Also added The Art of Ice and fire.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by bronconick

I think I like WSUCougar's version better, but here goes.

- Prologue has the most action, but introduces 15 new characters that you'll never see again.

- Mat creeps across Altara at roughly 50 feet per day, flirting with the 12 year old boy that apparently is his future wife. Kills a chick who tries to escape and tattle on him.

- Perrin sees ghosts and other sundry crap. Whines a lot. Doesn't make any progress.

- Lots of Elayne chapters involving sniffing, scoffing, and political stuff that would interest me if I was reading a non-fiction book. Nothing happens. No girl on girl scenes involving her and Aviendha, which is the only way to save this plotline.

- Egwene whines about headaches being given her by Halima, then at the end, they actually go out to close off the harbors to Tar Valon, and she gets her idiot self captured by the Tower.

- Rand sleeps a lot, has two chapters, I think, and at the end agrees through Bashere to meet the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" and Suroth of the Seanchan, which is interesting, considering where she actually is.

I think that was about it. Oh, and lots more sniffing.

I think this could help me. I've tried to make it through this book, but just can't. I keep wondering if I'm reading about characters I should know about, or if they are completely new. This summary might have suffice as enough preparation to read the next book.

At one time I wrote a lengthy comparison of my feelings regarding the Wheel of Time series, and Tolkein's work. In the end I summed up by saying that I currently found the WoT more appealing, so Jordan was ever so slightly "ahead", but noted that as Jordan continued to write, Tolkein continued to make up ground. Were I to revisit this now, I would summarize that Jordan has fallen from his horse, which is now grazing contentedly on the infield grass, and that Tolkein is riding on apparently unchallenged toward the finish line. Wait, who is that coming up on Tolkein's heels? Oh hey that's G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire closing fast.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think this could help me. I've tried to make it through this book, but just can't. I keep wondering if I'm reading about characters I should know about, or if they are completely new. This summary might have suffice as enough preparation to read the next book.

At one time I wrote a lengthy comparison of my feelings regarding the Wheel of Time series, and Tolkein's work. In the end I summed up by saying that I currently found the WoT more appealing, so Jordan was ever so slightly "ahead", but noted that as Jordan continued to write, Tolkein continued to make up ground. Were I to revisit this now, I would summarize that Jordan has fallen from his horse, which is now grazing contentedly on the infield grass, and that Tolkein is riding on apparently unchallenged toward the finish line. Wait, who is that coming up on Tolkein's heels? Oh hey that's G.R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire closing fast.

Ironically, I have the three ASOIAF books, but I've now decided after Jordan that I'm not spending any money on any unfinished fantasy series. So I just stick it on a Christmas list every year. One slow writing bastard getting my money is enough at any one time. After Feast, I'll probably break down and do an indepth reading of the series. I'm just holding off as long as possible because then I'll be pissed along with the rest of y'all when it takes him 5 more years to get book 6 out after a quick turn around for 5 (which is supposedly half-finished already)

I always viewed Tolkein as being the "modern creator" of fantasy, and as such, really uncomparable with modern authors. Some of them write better, some of them have better dialogue, or even a better plot, but he revived the genre, and most of them are building off of him.

[bronconick]

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

[terpkristin]

Oddly enough I was going to post in this thread...

Had a question for any of you who've listened to audio books and read the print books.

I read the GRRM books a few years ago, figured that in preparation for the release of AFFC, I'd refresh my memory of what happened in each book by listening to the audio book. It worked really well, as it turns out.

I was wondering if listening to the Robert Jordan books on audio book might be a good idea--if they're any easier to listen to than they are to read...any thoughts?

/tk

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Oddly enough I was going to post in this thread...

Had a question for any of you who've listened to audio books and read the print books.

I read the GRRM books a few years ago, figured that in preparation for the release of AFFC, I'd refresh my memory of what happened in each book by listening to the audio book. It worked really well, as it turns out.

I was wondering if listening to the Robert Jordan books on audio book might be a good idea--if they're any easier to listen to than they are to read...any thoughts?

/tk

Just don't listen to Jordan's recent books while driving. You could kill someone.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Just don't listen to Jordan's recent books while driving. You could kill someone.

Unless your CD player has a button that allows you to skip past/through any mention of "Hair tugging", "sniffing" , and "Egwene", I agree.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?


BTW, Feast of Crows came out in Europe yesterday, and my copy is winging over the Atlantic as we speak.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?


BTW, Feast of Crows came out in Europe yesterday, and my copy is winging over the Atlantic as we speak.

How? Where? How Much?

[Sadalia]

British Amazon . Shipping will be an expense, but if you really want it... I got Robin Hobb's last couple of books early the same way.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Just an update on Jordan- Knife of Dreams does not actually suck. Getting a new editor actually helped. It's about as good as Lord of Chaos, and a definite step up from the last 3. Stuff happens. Quite a bit.

Thanks for the update, I'll be looking forward to picking this up.

Of course, I'm also looking forward to getting book 4 of the Song of Ice and Fire Series.

[Toddiec]

Hey guys, bought book one of the Ice and Fire series and I am loving it so far. Thanks for the recommendation!

**Possible spoiler for those that haven't read it**






I was up until 2:00 am last night because I couldn't put it down after the king vs. boar encounter. Very intriguing politics at play in those chapters. Fun, fun stuff.

[WSUCougar]

You're in for a fun ride, Toddiec. Enjoy!

[Bee]

I didn't know about Jordan's book coming out. I'm going on a trip this weekend and I think I'll pick it up for some airplane reading...

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

New editor? His always has and still does edit his books. What do you mean?

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows.

This book, combined with New Spring not being a 1,000 page discussion of Moiraine and Siuan's pillow friendship, makes me believe that he can finish this in 13 books, 12 (like he promised for the last 3 books) if he pushes and puts out a 900 page finale or so. Anything under 300 pages for the Last Battle will be irritating at this point.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows.

This book, combined with New Spring not being a 1,000 page discussion of Moiraine and Siuan's pillow friendship, makes me believe that he can finish this in 13 books, 12 (like he promised for the last 3 books) if he pushes and puts out a 900 page finale or so. Anything under 300 pages for the Last Battle will be irritating at this point.

He has promised 12 just recently.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by bronconick

His wife was the only editor on the last 3 books. The first time the publishers got a look at it was right before they started printing it. They ran it by a professional editor as well this time, like books 1-7. It shows....

WoW. That was really when the whole thing fell apart. That gives me hope, and maybe even desire to slog through that last book, rather than depend on the above summaries.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He has promised 12 just recently.

well, he said it this way


"..He informed us that the next book would be the last book for this "story", it might be a 2,000 page hard cover that you need a luggage cart to get out of the bookstore but it will be the last one.."

It might end up being something like Tad Williams' "To Green Angel Tower" , where it ended up being split into two volumes.

Either way, it'd be nice.

[terpkristin]

Another random question...
At amazon.co.uk I noticed that book 3 of ASOIAF for the UK version seems to have been split into two books, which I definitely did not see in the US version.
The US version is just "A Storm of Swords."
The UK versions are "A Storm of Swords: Steel and Snow" and "A Storm of Swords: Blood and Gold."

Is it just a first half/second half split? Or are there certain storylines or characters in each? What are the divisions?

Looking forward to AFFC here stateside. Might splurge and pick it up from the UK before too long.

/tk

[Coder]

The UK-split is simply the same version as the US-one but split in half.. no "new" storylines or anything..

Here's from his own FAQ:

Q: Your novels are broken up into several parts in my country, and published in multiple volumes. Why do you do that?

A: I don't. My publishers do. In France, in Italy, in Germany, in the Czech Republic, in Korea, in China, in Japan, and in several other countries, the novels have been published as two (or in some cases, three or four) books. My understanding is that this is largely a matter of economics. These are long novels even in English, and in many cases the process of translation can actually make a book longer. And each publisher presumably knows his own market, and what the readers will and will not accept in terms of book length and book price. Even some of the publishers who would prefer to issue each novel in a single volume -- my British, Dutch, and Hebrew publishers, for instance -- found themselves unable to do so in the case of A STORM OF SWORDS, where the sheer size of the book would have made it prohibitively expensive to produce, for their markets. I know it must be annoying to have the story broken up into two or three or four parts, but in some countries the choice is either that, or no edition at all. At least I am in good company. Tolkien's LORD OF THE RINGS was written as a single long novel, too. It was his publisher who decided to issue it as a trilogy, purely for commercial reasons.

[terpkristin]

Ah, I'd been curious maybe if half the storylines or character sections went into one half and the rest in the other. I mean, if the steel and snow version had to do with things with the north, and the other had to do with the south and Braavos, for example.

Or, how the parse was made...if it was just halfway down the spine, that's kind of boring.

/tk

[3ric]

I got Feast for Crows delivered today from amazon.co.uk, by the way... I'm looking forwards to start reading it tonight!

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, I just started to read the first book "Game of Thrones". Pretty good so far.

[DaddyTorgo]

400 pages into "game of thrones." Definately enjoying it. Knew by 200 or so that i was going to go out and buy the next 2 books (will prolly be done with them by the time the 4th is in paperback), and just did today.

i actually enjoy all the chapters from different points of view

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by 3ric

I got Feast for Crows delivered today from amazon.co.uk, by the way... I'm looking forwards to start reading it tonight!

damn you!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i actually enjoy all the chapters from different points of view

That's one of the best parts of the series. Martin just does such an excellent job getting into the heads of the characters and letting you see the world through their eyes. The tone and feel of each perspective is wildly different. It's also great because you read one chapter and are all like "X is the best. He's so cool." "Y is an evil bastard." You read the next chapter and all of a sudden it's like "X actually has some issues." "And that Y, well, maybe he isn't so bad afterall."

I'm in the midst of re-reading "Storm of Swords" right now in preparation of "Feast." I love these books.

[WSUCougar]

What Hockey Boy said.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL. you called him hockey boy

[finkenst]

i hate you all, too....

time to call the library!

[terpkristin]

I concur with the "Damn You" to 3ric. Amazon.co.uk SHIPPED my copy of AFFC today.

Looks like I won't get to it until after NaNoWriMo in November. (http://www.nanowrimo.org)

/tk

[GrantDawg]

I GOTS MINE!!!!!

[sachmo71]

Not sure if I posted this before, but The Art of Ice and Fire is going to be published by Fantasy Flight Games soon (if not already).
Mine should be coming with my copy of A Feast Of Crows. Not the collectors edition.

[GrantDawg]

I finished A Feast of Crows. All I can say is it is not the best of these books. It starts well, slows down towards the middle, and then leaves the stories hanging without as much forward movement as you normally see in this series. I will not say it is "Jordan like" but I will say it is unsatisfying. Especially considering the level of cliff-hangers he leaves in this book, yet he says at the end of the book he'll not be returning to these story lines in the next one! There were plenty of twist, and at least one *ah-ha* moment. All in all though, I'd give this one a five (To give you the scale, Thrones would be a 8, Kings would be a 7, and Swords would be a 9.5).

[terpkristin]

Really, GD?
My copy finally came from amazonUK and I'm on about page 200. So far, I'm loving it, thinking it's on par with the others.

I suppose one can hope that if there are cliffhangers and considering the absent POV's, that at least ADWD's release next year will probably make AFFC "complete" and make it more satisfying.

So far, though, I'm giving this an 8. Wonder if that'll change as I get farther..

/tk

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Really, GD?
My copy finally came from amazonUK and I'm on about page 200. So far, I'm loving it, thinking it's on par with the others.

I suppose one can hope that if there are cliffhangers and considering the absent POV's, that at least ADWD's release next year will probably make AFFC "complete" and make it more satisfying.

So far, though, I'm giving this an 8. Wonder if that'll change as I get farther..

/tk

Like I said, it starts strong. It slows as it goes, though.

[DaddyTorgo]

i read like 300 pages or so of Clash of Kings today. Glad that I didn't start the series back at the beginning, much nicer this way around as I won't have to wait for every single book.

[GrantDawg]

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The strongest thing I can say about it is it just feels incomplete. I hate to prejudice you going in, but that is the feeling I had at the end. It just ended "wrong."

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.

Maybe when I get AFFC for X-mas, I'll finally read ASOS.

I need to start reading stand-alone books.

[ISiddiqui]

Juuust finished "A Game of Thrones" (actually finished it today). Wow... I think I'm going to get the next couple books in the series. I had some other books I wanted to read, but I think I'll put them on the backburner. I loved it!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Having not read it, it seems like that would be likely since I heard he wrote a much larger book and they had to cut it down and add a bunch to book #5.

Maybe when I get AFFC for X-mas, I'll finally read ASOS.

I need to start reading stand-alone books.

If you haven't read ASOS, then you are in for a treat. Best fantasy novel I've ever read.