2007-08 Baseball Offseason

[bigdawg2003]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3099599

Astros get:

OF Michael Bourn
RP Geoff Geary
3B Mike Costanzo

Phillies get:

RP Brad Lidge
IF Eric Bruntlett

Philly fans. What'd we get?

[RedKingGold]

Supposedly the Phillies acquired Brad Lidge and a minor leaguer from the Astros for Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary, and another minor leaguer.

As a Phillie's fan, I don't like the deal. I liked Bourn as a potential Juan Pierre type, his speed gave a nice dimension and he was a solid fielder. Unless Rowland is going to be re-signed by the Phils (which I highly doubt), this leaves the outfield a little bit thin.

As far as Lidge, I only see him as a slight upgrade from Geary. Geary was one of the more reliable relievers for the Phils last year (when everyone else was pretty much crap), and while Lidge has the ability to be dominant, he's also a mental case.

And, if Lidge struggled to keep fly balls within Minute Maid Park, how the hell will he not allow at least as many homeruns in Citizen Bank Park?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2003

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3099599

Astros get:

OF Michael Bourn
RP Geoff Geary
3B Mike Costanzo

Phillies get:

RP Brad Lidge
IF Eric Bruntlett

Philly fans. What'd we get?

Best case scenario for Bourne is Juan Pierre, which means he's a career 4th OFer. Costanzo is a power prospect, but has been old for his leagues so his upside is probably limited. He walks quite a bit, but striking out 157 times in AA as a 24 year old is a red flag.

Coming into this year they were ranked 7th and 12th in the Philly system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I just hope this guy decides to try the majors:
Chunichi outfielder Kosuke Fukudome.

Alas, we can only dream of Harry Caray still being around to try that last name

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Supposedly the Phillies acquired Brad Lidge and a minor leaguer from the Astros for Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary, and another minor leaguer.

As a Phillie's fan, I don't like the deal. I liked Bourn as a potential Juan Pierre type, his speed gave a nice dimension and he was a solid fielder. Unless Rowland is going to be re-signed by the Phils (which I highly doubt), this leaves the outfield a little bit thin.

Umm. I don't think Pierre is a compliment.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I just hope this guy decides to try the majors:
Chunichi outfielder Kosuke Fukudome.

Alas, we can only dream of Harry Caray still being around to try that last name

Oh, he will. He's a free agent this year and turns 31 next year.

I found this about him on another site:

On which positions Fukudome could play:

Fukudome would be an excellent Red Sox outfielder, and he'd hit a million doubles in that park. His days as an infielder are finished, but I think he could play any of the outfield positions. He's best in right though. Center would be an option, but not the most attractive one from a defensive standpoint.

What we can expect offensively:

He is an on base machine with power to the gaps. He won't be a home run slugger, but he'll be standing on first or second base after about 40% of his plate appearances.

On Fukudome's personality and attitude:

He's a competitor too. Kind of a throwback guy. No dyed hair, jewelry, image enhancements. Buzz cut, square jaw, intense eyes. Not that those things make you a good or bad player, but fans will be turned on by his serious approach.

On possible interested teams:

I think it's premature to say who is or who isn't interested in Fukudome. I happened to know that several MLB clubs are going to make a serious run at him. I can't say who those teams are for confidentiality reasons, but it will be a multi-team battle for his services. He should command in the $12-15 million range over 3 or 4 years. It will be a very good buy for whichever team he chooses. The Red Sox would benefit from the additional TV coverage they'd receive, but a lot of clubs would like to break into the Japanese market and have scouts over here on a permanent basis.

[Atocep]

I'm not a pirates fan, but I just became a Neal Huntington fan.

Q&A with thier GM:

The Pirates upper management has widely ignored OBP (on base percentage) in the past. How important will OBP be in player evaluation under your leadership?
-- Eric S., Pennsboro, W.Va

We are going to utilize several objective measures of player performance to evaluate and develop players. We'll rely on the more traditional objective evaluations: OPS (on base percentage plus slugging percentage) , WHIP (walks and hits per inning pitched), Runs Created, ERC (Component ERA), GB/FB (ground ball to fly ball ratio), K/9 (strikeouts per nine innings), K/BB (strikeouts to walks ratio), BB%, etc., but we'll also look to rely on some of the more recent variations: VORP (value over replacement player), Relative Performance, EqAve (equivalent average), EqOBP (equivalent on base percentage), EqSLG (equivalent slugging percentage), BIP% (balls put into play percentage), wOBA (weighted on base average), Range Factor, PMR (probabilistic model of range) and Zone Rating.

[ISiddiqui]

You got that Fire Joe Morgan blog, didn't you .

The blogger's comment after that is hilarious, btw.

[Young Drachma]

Contract the Florida teams

From the NY Times.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Supposedly the Phillies acquired Brad Lidge and a minor leaguer from the Astros for Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary, and another minor leaguer.

As a Phillie's fan, I don't like the deal. I liked Bourn as a potential Juan Pierre type, his speed gave a nice dimension and he was a solid fielder. Unless Rowland is going to be re-signed by the Phils (which I highly doubt), this leaves the outfield a little bit thin.

As far as Lidge, I only see him as a slight upgrade from Geary. Geary was one of the more reliable relievers for the Phils last year (when everyone else was pretty much crap), and while Lidge has the ability to be dominant, he's also a mental case.

And, if Lidge struggled to keep fly balls within Minute Maid Park, how the hell will he not allow at least as many homeruns in Citizen Bank Park?

I don't know where to begin with this post.

First off, as already stated, a comparison to Pierre is not a compliment.

Secondly, Lidge is more than just a slight upgrade from Geary. As poorly as Lidge has pitched the last 2 seasons, he's still maintained a very good K rate, and a pretty good K/BB ratio. His HR rate has not been good, but it has not been awful. He tended to give them up in crucial situations, which obviously is not a good thing for a closer, but it makes a better story to report that he has completely fallen apart, which is far from reality.

Geary is a below-average arm, while Lidge has been one of the most dominant relievers in the game over the past 5 years. Even last season, when he was moved to middle relief, he was flat out unhittable. Geary has been a middling below average reliever who has had a lucky ERA the past couple of years.

Overall, I think both teams win in this trade. The Astros didn't have much of a choice in trading Lidge, they moved a large contract, and got some young talent in return, which they are sorely lacking. To me, Constanzo is the wild-card in this deal.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You got that Fire Joe Morgan blog, didn't you .

The blogger's comment after that is hilarious, btw.

Yep, the only blog I actually read and one of my favorite websites.

I don't even hold the fact that they're Red Sox fans against them.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Contract the Florida teams

From the NY Times.

I think it's better just to move them. Perhaps move the Marlins to North Carolina and Tampa to... well, wherever.

[Atocep]

The Giants started their post-Bonds rebuilding by signing Vizquel to 1-year $5.3 million extension with a team option for '09....

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think it's better just to move them. Perhaps move the Marlins to North Carolina and Tampa to... well, wherever.

North Carolina keeps saying they don't want a team. Orlando wanted a team a decade ago when Miami got one instead, maybe they could be conned into taking the Rays or whatever and then move the Marlins to Brooklyn and build a stadium where Bruce Ratner supposedly wants to build an arena.

And yes, I know...the Mets and Yankees blah blah blah blah..monopoly.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Giants started their post-Bonds rebuilding by signing Vizquel to 1-year $5.3 million extension with a team option for '09....

I suspect this was sarcasm, but I like this move. Vizquel was one of the few things watchable about the '07 Giants. And it's not like we have an impact SS in the minors. Weak as the FA market is, this was probably the best SS available not named A-Rod.

It's actually a vesting option for '09, 140 games played.

Now what scares me is that there's talk of trading Lincecum. Not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea, I'm just scared that Sabean will fail to get anything like good value for him.

[cartman]

CHAN HO PARK FOR THE MF-ING WIN!!!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brillig

I suspect this was sarcasm, but I like this move. Vizquel was one of the few things watchable about the '07 Giants. And it's not like we have an impact SS in the minors. Weak as the FA market is, this was probably the best SS available not named A-Rod.

It's actually a vesting option for '09, 140 games played.

Now what scares me is that there's talk of trading Lincecum. Not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea, I'm just scared that Sabean will fail to get anything like good value for him.

The Giants won't be contending for anything in '08, Sabean continuing to hang onto a 40 year old shortstop that posted a .621 OPS makes zero sense. Then again, its typical Sabean. Life without Bonds is going to be rough for him because the only way he knows how to construct a team is by having a lineup full of 35+ year old players.

A creative GM makes some sort of move for a younger SS or signs one. Since the free agent market for shortstops is thin, then making a deal for someone that stands to at least hold his ground over the next 2-3 seasons, if not improve a bit, rather than one in sharp decline makes the most sense.

We're talking about 40 year old Omar Vizquel here, not Omar 10 years ago. He posted a VORP of -9 and a WARP3 of 4.5. The 4.5 WARP3 is about average for a SS and shows how good he was defensively last year. However, it was his best defensive season since in about 10 years so you can't expect him to repeat it.

Off the top of my head a Ronny Cedeno (who the Cubs would probably give away at this point) would offer the same defense (if not better assuming Visquel falls back to his '06 level) and at least the potential to do better than a .621 OPS. Not only that, the Giants would have saved about $5 million this year and another $5 million next year.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Brillig

I suspect this was sarcasm, but I like this move. Vizquel was one of the few things watchable about the '07 Giants. And it's not like we have an impact SS in the minors. Weak as the FA market is, this was probably the best SS available not named A-Rod.

It's actually a vesting option for '09, 140 games played.

Now what scares me is that there's talk of trading Lincecum. Not that I think it's necessarily a bad idea, I'm just scared that Sabean will fail to get anything like good value for him.

I thought I saw something on Lincecum to Tampa Bay for Crawford. Something along those lines

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

North Carolina keeps saying they don't want a team. Orlando wanted a team a decade ago when Miami got one instead, maybe they could be conned into taking the Rays or whatever and then move the Marlins to Brooklyn and build a stadium where Bruce Ratner supposedly wants to build an arena.

And yes, I know...the Mets and Yankees blah blah blah blah..monopoly.

Why not Portland for one of those franchises?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Why not Portland for one of those franchises?

Portland would probably get better attendence numbers than a small handful of MLB teams, but their TV audience would be crippled because of the Mariners.

Honestly, Charlotte is just about the only city that makes sense. It could draw fans without having much effect on the Braves, if any at all. Orlando would dip into the Devil Rays fan base (don't laugh) and offers just about the same potential for attendence/TV ratings that Charlotte would. Since MLB would probably frown on taking fans from a struggling market, Charlotte is just about the only option a team wanting to move has.

[cartman]

as I said earlier...

CHAN HO PARK FOR THE MF-ING WIN!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just for the idly curious, largest TV markets without an MLB team of their own

#19 Orlando-Daytona-Melbourne 1,434,050 TV Households
#23 Portland 1,150,320
#25 Charlotte 1,085,640
#26 Indianapolis 1,072,090
#28 Raleigh-Durham 1,039,890
#30 Nashville 966,170
#35 Salt Lake City 874,650
#36 Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson 838,720
#37 San Antonio 792,440

(I left out #20 Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, #29 Hartford-New Haven, and #32 Columbus,OH because of their proximity to existing teams)

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Giants won't be contending for anything in '08, Sabean continuing to hang onto a 40 year old shortstop that posted a .621 OPS makes zero sense. Then again, its typical Sabean. Life without Bonds is going to be rough for him because the only way he knows how to construct a team is by having a lineup full of 35+ year old players.

A creative GM makes some sort of move for a younger SS or signs one. Since the free agent market for shortstops is thin, then making a deal for someone that stands to at least hold his ground over the next 2-3 seasons, if not improve a bit, rather than one in sharp decline makes the most sense.

We're talking about 40 year old Omar Vizquel here, not Omar 10 years ago. He posted a VORP of -9 and a WARP3 of 4.5. The 4.5 WARP3 is about average for a SS and shows how good he was defensively last year. However, it was his best defensive season since in about 10 years so you can't expect him to repeat it.

Off the top of my head a Ronny Cedeno (who the Cubs would probably give away at this point) would offer the same defense (if not better assuming Visquel falls back to his '06 level) and at least the potential to do better than a .621 OPS. Not only that, the Giants would have saved about $5 million this year and another $5 million next year.

This is what I love about stat-heads. They can always make up another stat no one cares about to 'prove' their points.Last season was far from Omar's best defensive season in 10 years. And Cedeno is an utter scrub compared to Omar.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Just for the idly curious, largest TV markets without an MLB team of their own

#19 Orlando-Daytona-Melbourne 1,434,050 TV Households
#23 Portland 1,150,320
#25 Charlotte 1,085,640
#26 Indianapolis 1,072,090
#28 Raleigh-Durham 1,039,890
#30 Nashville 966,170
#35 Salt Lake City 874,650
#36 Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson 838,720
#37 San Antonio 792,440

(I left out #20 Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, #29 Hartford-New Haven, and #32 Columbus,OH because of their proximity to existing teams)

I'd delete Indianapolis from the list as well(Only 108 miles difference between the distance from Cincy to Indy and 187 to Chicago). There's almost no way to move a team to Indianapolis without drawing a chunk of the Reds TV base.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Brillig

This is what I love about stat-heads. They can always make up another stat no one cares about to 'prove' their points.Last season was far from Omar's best defensive season in 10 years. And Cedeno is an utter scrub compared to Omar.

Wow, I don't even know what to say. Apparently you take offense to stats being discussed in baseball.

You can check Omar's defensive stats over the past 10 years (unless you're a big believer in fielding percentage). He's had 3 good years, 1 oustanding year, and a bunch of average years. But his fielding percentage sure does look purty.

Regardless, the Giants should be rebuilding and instead they commited up to $10 million over the next 2 years for a 41 year old shortstop that hit .246/.305/.316 last year. I'd take just about anyone under 30 over that.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Portland would probably get better attendence numbers than a small handful of MLB teams, but their TV audience would be crippled because of the Mariners.

Honestly, Charlotte is just about the only city that makes sense. It could draw fans without having much effect on the Braves, if any at all. Orlando would dip into the Devil Rays fan base (don't laugh) and offers just about the same potential for attendence/TV ratings that Charlotte would. Since MLB would probably frown on taking fans from a struggling market, Charlotte is just about the only option a team wanting to move has.

If the city officials are against the idea and fan polling as been tepid at best, it's hard to put a team there.

Norfolk would work better than one would think, especially if you put Richmond into the mix economically and North Carolina isn't super far away. It's far enough away from Baltimore and there is enough of a military presence there that the market isn't nearly as small as one might predict (again when you add Richmond into it and assume that baseball fans from N. Carolina would be in striking distance to the team) and they made a play for the Expos before the move to D.C. that no one really took that seriously.

San Bernardino/Riverside is far enough from LA that if a team marketed itself right, it could even do well to pull in fans from Vegas, without having to waste time putting a team there.

And Jersey works, no matter what anyone says. Philadelphia used to have two teams, New York used to have 3. Now, the region that supported 5 teams (and the A's were the better team and they moved...), now just has 3 and while the team might be a second class citizen, it would be better than what's going on in Tampa right now.

But then, we're talking about the most notoriously bad sport at marketing itself and whose expansion selections are almost always driven by lawsuits or some form of commissioner sanctioned extortion or decision to avoid a place for the 'good of the game'.

Bleh. I can't see the Devil Rays hanging out in that ballpark until their lease ends. That current owner will probably sell the team himself or he'll be demanding a new park by 2010, saying that the team's woeful state is due to the lack of an adequate facility or something.

The Marlins might make a play for their stadium on the site of the Orange Bowl with it being demolished here before too long.

And Portland might be a good market if it were in the AL for baseball to provide the Mariners with a natural rival finally...but they've got to get someone to want to step up and help them get a stadium..and the political climate there for such a thing is way too toxic for that right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

I'd delete Indianapolis from the list as well(Only 108 miles difference between the distance from Cincy to Indy and 187 to Chicago). There's almost no way to move a team to Indianapolis without drawing a chunk of the Reds TV base.

Fair enough point, it was late & I was scuffling to remember all the pertinent distances.

Originally Posted by DarkCloud

Norfolk would work better than one would think

I just have a tough time imagining an MLB team being placed in the #42 TV market (717,400 HH), and I'm not at all sure that Richmond would be interested in adopting them. There's reasons that their play for Expos wasn't really taken seriously, being a meh media market is among those.

[watravaler]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Wow, I don't even know what to say. Apparently you take offense to stats being discussed in baseball.

You can check Omar's defensive stats over the past 10 years (unless you're a big believer in fielding percentage). He's had 3 good years, 1 oustanding year, and a bunch of average years. But his fielding percentage sure does look purty.

Regardless, the Giants should be rebuilding and instead they commited up to $10 million over the next 2 years for a 41 year old shortstop that hit .246/.305/.316 last year. I'd take just about anyone under 30 over that.

I would as well, but a team can live with Vizquel if the surrounding talent is there. Unfortunately for the Giants, it isn't, but Omar will be a good mentor for the guy the Giants bring in to replace him.

[ISiddiqui]

Well... the problem with Portland is that you have to redo the divisions .

[Atocep]

The Cubs decided they didn't have enough light hitting middle infielders so they sent Jacque Jones to Detroit for Omar Infante.

[Atocep]

A-Rod reportedly close to signing a 10-year contract with the Yankees for around $280 million with incentives that will push it up over $300 million.

[JS19]

i suppose the way the yankees do business isn't as clear to the rest of the world as it is to us here in NY, since we get to read and listen about it everyday. This comes as no surprise to me. It's what they do, they go after the best. It would be a cold day in hell when the yankees let A-Rod just opt out and sign with another team, regardless of what the steinbrenners say.

[bulletsponge]

anyone who pays A-rod that much money is an idiot.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

How does any of this make any sense whatsoever?

I saw it the other way - I was shocked everybody seemed to rule this out as a possibility just because of the Yankees' tough talk.

Who else was going to pay him what he wants?

[rkmsuf]

Maybe A-Rod just wanted to do his buddy in Texas a favor. You know. A little something for the effort. Like 21 million.

[Logan]

So what can you Colorado guys tell me about Yorvit Torrealba? From what I understand, not the biggest hitter (hopefully mitigated by Ramon Castro getting a lot of time behind the plate too) but very good at handling pitchers and calling the game.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Logan

So what can you Colorado guys tell me about Yorvit Torrealba? From what I understand, not the biggest hitter (hopefully mitigated by Ramon Castro getting a lot of time behind the plate too) but very good at handling pitchers and calling the game.

As a Mets fan I'm not really excited about this move. Unfortunately, there aren't exactly any good catchers out there right now they could go get. I think Castro could give them better production for 1 year than Torrealba will.

I haven't seen any dollar figures on the deal yet, but I'm going to assume they overpayed.

[Logan]

Word was 3 years, $15 million. I'm not sure Castro could hold up for 120 games.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Logan

Word was 3 years, $15 million. I'm not sure Castro could hold up for 120 games.

Not sure Torrealba can either. He played 113 games this past year and his previous high before that was 66.

$15 million isn't horrible (compared to what I expected), though. I was assuming the number was going to be in the 20s.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not sure Torrealba can either. He played 113 games this past year and his previous high before that was 66.

Obviously a fair point...but at least Torrealba has the body type that could hold up to full-time responsibility (compared to Castro's 6'3", 250). If I remember correctly, the Rockies were hoping Ianetta would be the guy, so he got most of the time at the start of the season, so it's not like he has only played that many games because of fatigue, injury, ineffectiveness, etc. More a lack of opportunity.

[Eaglesfan27]

The Yankees and Rodriguez have agreed to a 10 year deal worth about 275 million with incentives that can push it up over 300 million.

Edit: Now they are saying they have just agreed in principal and final details have to be worked out.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I'm not surprised he's back - what I am surprised by is that it would appear that the NYY have all the leverage in the situation, and are still giving him a contract that appears to be more than they initially offered, and more than I believe he would get on the open market.

I heard that the proposed yearly salary is lower than they were going to offer him before he opted out, but the contract is a couple of years longer.

It is impossible to predict what he would get on the open market, especially if he had taken his time to decide. Did anyone predict the $252 million contract last time?

[Buccaneer]

Sheesh, Jake wins the Cy unanimously and gets overshadowed by an arrogant fathead and the Yankees.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Not sure Torrealba can either. He played 113 games this past year and his previous high before that was 66.

$15 million isn't horrible (compared to what I expected), though. I was assuming the number was going to be in the 20s.

I wouldn't worry too much about Torrealba holding up physically. He's still relatively young - the reason his previous high was so low is that he was always a backup at the ML level. In the minors he caught over 100 games regularly.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Well, that's essentially the same case here. Who else was bidding against Texas the last time A-Rod signed a deal of this size? The contract he signed was WAAAAY over what anyone else was offering. I'm just not seeing how this is toooo much different.

You're right, it's impossible to predict, but at the same time it didn't seem to most that A-Rod was going to get what he was looking for. Teams were backing off left and right. Sure, some of thats gamesmanship, but other than Moreno, I don't see anyone giving him anything like what the Yankees did. And Moreno's position was "uninterested." A-Rod would have had to wait until Lowell signed somewhere and Cabrera was traded somewhere before he had any chance at signing this type of a contract.

Great quote from one of the Steinbrenners... "There are a few cynics who say, 'Well, he really couldn't get this there,' " Steinbrenner said. "Trust me, he would have gotten probably more. He is making a sacrifice to be a Yankee, there's no question. ... He showed what was really in his heart and what he really wanted."

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

I heard that the proposed yearly salary is lower than they were going to offer him before he opted out, but the contract is a couple of years longer.

It is impossible to predict what he would get on the open market, especially if he had taken his time to decide. Did anyone predict the $252 million contract last time?

Does anyone else think that the "Boras clause" played a major role here? To me, the $272 figure sure sounds like $300 minus 10%, as if the Yankees were basically saying "hey, if you leave dickhead out of this, we can make quick work of this crap" and it sold. I have no idea if Boras still gets his full share with this deal, but it seemed like that margin was deliberate, to me.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Sheesh, Jake wins the Cy unanimously and gets overshadowed by an arrogant fathead and the Yankees.

To be honest, the only drama over the NL Cy Young was whether Peavy was going to be unanimous or if some idiot would vote for his hometown fave, making Peavy one short. Basically, everyone knew who was going to win.

[Buccaneer]

I agree but when CC won, they had a feature article/photo at Sportsline. I think Jake would have had one too if it wasn't for that fucktard.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I agree but when CC won, they had a feature article/photo at Sportsline. I think Jake would have had one too if it wasn't for that fucktard.

CC's was a close win over Beckett.

Besides, said "fucktard" is the best player in baseball. I'd say his decision as to where he's going trumps any award (even his own MVP ).

edit: Oh, wait... you mean the other fucktard.

[Galaril]

Well, my fear has manifested itself. The sox let probably the greatest 3b they have had in history or at least in the last 40 years walk and probably heading to one of our two biggest competitors the Yanks or Angels. Geez they gave JD Drew like 14 mill a year or something like that. They obviously didn't think that Lowell would get 4 year offers. He looks to get a deal of 56 for 4 years 14 mill a year. I am sure the Sox offered him a 3 year deal at 44 with maybe ateam option for 4th year at 10 mill he would of taken. So, if the Sox were which I think they were pinning their 3rd basemen hopes on A-Rod leaving the Yanks they fucked that up. I guess we could sign Joe Creede the yankees leftovers:}