Werewolf XLVI Willy Wonka the game thread!!!! BAD GUYS WIN!!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sorry, I misread you -- I thought you said vote for you if I was suspicious of you. Whoops.

Or maybe I thought you meant acting suspiciously. Man, this is making me tired.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Perhaps its been because of the long break between games, but most people know that I strongly protest ties in games. I at no point brought us close to a tie.

Your point seems to suggest you would prefer a run away vote than a close one that we might use to try to get information about voting patterns. I also am against that, as we don't learn anything from a run away vote.

I made a vote on one of the leading candidates, that was not a throw away, that did not tie things up and was relevant to what the current discussion was at the time.

Your vote on me seems clearly to be nothing more than an attempt at distraction away from something else.

How can you defend that you did not bring us closer to a tie? The vote was 4-2 and you made it 4-3. I just don't get how your vote can be all three things -- on a leading candidate, not forcing a tie, and not a throw away. I agree that it didn't force a tie, but it definitely brought us closer to one, there's no disputing that. And if you weren't worried about a tie forming, I'd have to call the vote a throwaway.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Your vote on me seems clearly to be nothing more than an attempt at distraction away from something else.

Yes, it struck me as odd too. If he were really a SIMPLE villegar, wouldn't he most likely fire back at me? Especially given that he thinks I'm suspicious - that assertion, coupled with a vote on Alan, is really inexplicable.

I think its essential that we lynch saldana today - even if he's innocent, the longer he lives, the more confusing our approach will get.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

How can you defend that you did not bring us closer to a tie? The vote was 4-2 and you made it 4-3. I just don't get how your vote can be all three things -- on a leading candidate, not forcing a tie, and not a throw away. I agree that it didn't force a tie, but it definitely brought us closer to one, there's no disputing that. And if you weren't worried about a tie forming, I'd have to call the vote a throwaway.

Well gee.. if you want to get technical with it... anyone who didn't break a tie yesterday brought us closer to a tie with their vote in that case.

My vote was with plenty of time to spare, with an advanced announcement even earlier in the evening of my intentions, with the ability for the 5-6 people who were online and in the thread at the time to make their moves.

The way Saldana framed his accusation to make it sound like I recklessly threw us at the traintrack was pretty misleading. If you don't believe me, go back and read my posts. I never one hid my plan, and went through with what I said.

It probably doesn't matter in the case where Chief was a good guy, but if he had been a bad guy, having the vote close to see who maneuvered to attempt to save him (if anyone would have tried) would have been good to know.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yes, it struck me as odd too. If he were really a SIMPLE villegar, wouldn't he most likely fire back at me? Especially given that he thinks I'm suspicious - that assertion, coupled with a vote on Alan, is really inexplicable.

I think its essential that we lynch saldana today - even if he's innocent, the longer he lives, the more confusing our approach will get.

Essential? Really? Based on this? I'm not seeing it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Essential? Really? Based on this? I'm not seeing it.

You just go right ahead and vote for somebody else then. Heck, vote for me. I welcome the scrutiny.

I have a plan, and I'm sticking to it. If you don't like it, come up with a better plan. I just know as a villegar I hate it when there's somebody hanging around on day 8 who has been the runner up in like 6 of the votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well gee.. if you want to get technical with it... anyone who didn't break a tie yesterday brought us closer to a tie with their vote in that case.

My vote was with plenty of time to spare, with an advanced announcement even earlier in the evening of my intentions, with the ability for the 5-6 people who were online and in the thread at the time to make their moves.

The way Saldana framed his accusation to make it sound like I recklessly threw us at the traintrack was pretty misleading. If you don't believe me, go back and read my posts. I never one hid my plan, and went through with what I said.

It probably doesn't matter in the case where Chief was a good guy, but if he had been a bad guy, having the vote close to see who maneuvered to attempt to save him (if anyone would have tried) would have been good to know.

Well...not really. Any vote that didn't bring the top two vote getters closer together in votes did not bring us closer to a tie.

Your vote was with twenty minutes to spare, and I'll admit to not knowing how many people were online then, so I'll take your word for it.

I do agree that saldana came on too strongly. Your vote did not seem to me like you were TRYING to get a tie. I was just setting facts straight.

A big part of me thinks the case against saldana is way too easy -- the AE vote, and the fact that he didn't attack his accuser (which I see as more of a personality trait than a villegar/wolf thing). A smaller part of me thinks we're being lead toward saldana by cronin and Alan (whose late vote made him look more like a possible lynch candidate than he might have been otherwise -- but then I think even THAT is too easy!

[Alan T]

vote St.Cronin

When I read that ardent was night killed, the first person I actually thought of was actually St.Cronin, then I saw him come out with an arguement against Saldana which I didn't even fully understand. (My guess was that Cronin said it must be saldana as a wolf because Ardent had voted for him the previous day, not because of the saving Saldana by voting for Chief thing that was talked about earlier)

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Well...not really. Any vote that didn't bring the top two vote getters closer together in votes did not bring us closer to a tie.

Your vote was with twenty minutes to spare, and I'll admit to not knowing how many people were online then, so I'll take your word for it.

I do agree that saldana came on too strongly. Your vote did not seem to me like you were TRYING to get a tie. I was just setting facts straight.

A big part of me thinks the case against saldana is way too easy -- the AE vote, and the fact that he didn't attack his accuser (which I see as more of a personality trait than a villegar/wolf thing). A smaller part of me thinks we're being lead toward saldana by cronin and Alan (whose late vote made him look more like a possible lynch candidate than he might have been otherwise -- but then I think even THAT is too easy!

Huh? Where did I tell people to vote for Saldana. I said his arguement was completely without merit, incorrect and seemed a distractionary tactic. I voted for St.cronin and not Saldana. I don't really see the case for voting Saldana so far today.

Where did you get that I am trying to push people on Saldana at?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

vote St.Cronin

When I read that ardent was night killed, the first person I actually thought of was actually St.Cronin, then I saw him come out with an arguement against Saldana which I didn't even fully understand. (My guess was that Cronin said it must be saldana as a wolf because Ardent had voted for him the previous day, not because of the saving Saldana by voting for Chief thing that was talked about earlier)

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

I'm not mad at all, but I'm pretty baffled. Its always interesting to me when people resist the obvious.

But, anyway, as I said, I welcome the scrutiny. A showdown between me and Saldana could be very revealing for the villega.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Huh? Where did I tell people to vote for Saldana. I said his arguement was completely without merit, incorrect and seemed a distractionary tactic. I voted for St.cronin and not Saldana. I don't really see the case for voting Saldana so far today.

Where did you get that I am trying to push people on Saldana at?

I didn't say you were telling people to vote for saldana. I just said that your vote last night made it look like a closer race (4-3) than it was (4 for CR, 2 for DT, 2 for saldana). And I think that helps support st.cronin's theory.

[st.cronin]

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm not mad at all, but I'm pretty baffled. Its always interesting to me when people resist the obvious.

But, anyway, as I said, I welcome the scrutiny. A showdown between me and Saldana could be very revealing for the villega.

I don't have much wolf experience, but it's my understanding that the wolves try to avoid the obvious moves.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

I guess I'm the odd man out?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't have much wolf experience, but it's my understanding that the wolves try to avoid the obvious moves.

Yeah, the trouble is in agreeing on what an "obvious move" is. Its my opinion here that Alan is most likely the villager trying to hit a home run by guessing pitch and location. Me, as a villegar I like to keep it simple, and stay away from the crazy conspiracy theories.

Would love to get some feedback from some other players.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

See Ardent's FTB answers.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So: I have voted for saldana. Saldana votes for Alan T. And then Alan votes for me.

I just realized that what's even odder about this is that both saldana and Alan also asserted that the player they WEREN'T voting for was behaving suspiciously.

[hoopsguy]

OK, Cronin is suggesting that as seer he would scan someone with a low vote total, which tells me that he is not making a seer play at Saldana. So strike that thought from earlier ...

I'm inclined to sit tight for a couple of hours to see if there is anything that Willy W. might bring to the table. Assuming that happens, then I'll try to figure out if the Cronin/Saldana/Alan triangle is the right direction to go with this vote. Right now there is a fair amount of noise around this, but I haven't read anything yet that has been an "Aha!" moment in these posts.

[Swaggs]

I will be picking between Alan T and saldana. I'm not considering st.cronin because I don't think he would have been so assertive and placed the first vote today if he was a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

pass...if it makes you feel better I'll vote for you and then you won't be left out. LOL

(THAT'S ANOTHER JOKE PEOPLE)

Seriously though...I don't like voting the obvious all that often, unless there's overwhelming evidence for it. Because all too often the obvious is so obvious that the wolves have seen it and avoided it because it's obvious.

Sure...maybe one time in a dozen a wolf slips through that way, but 11/12 times then I'm winning and not voting for a villager.

I just really skimmed through those last few posts so I have no idea who I'll vote for yet...I want to go read ardent's FTB answers and see what's up, because I get the feeling that's more important than this game.

[Barkeep49]

I will be picking between saldana and cronin. I don't get the negative vibes from Alan T but those two are clearly ready to go at it. I hope it's not a villager versus villager thing, but I don't know. Early inclination is to go for cronin as I absolutely think he'd cast the first vote as a wolf.

[bulletsponge]

hmmm interesting. interesting as in im not sure what to do. this is why i hate being villagers, i cant decide what to do. if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.

but nooooooooo, i have to use my brain to figure out who bad

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hmmm interesting. interesting as in im not sure what to do. this is why i hate being villagers, i cant decide what to do. if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.

but nooooooooo, i have to use my brain to figure out who bad

I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before.

[Barkeep49]

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"the news yesterday" ardent? did i miss something in GD?

hmm I was wondering the same thing

[LoneStarGirl]

I am with Alant, I will always go against a tie. But if I have learned nothing in past games it is that you should always throw suspicion on Hoopsguy... he is far too good to let slip under your fingers. So unless anybody has any objections.

vote hoopsguy

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I still mean what I say about Saldana's arguement against me seems to be completely without merit, but I feel the same way or moreso about Cronin's arguement about Saldana.

I might change this as the day goes on depending on where votes fall. Figured I would get Cronin mad at me a bit too.

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before.

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

whew, for a second there i thought your sister told you i knocked her up. she told me she was on the pill

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by saldana

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]

hmm thats interesting

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by saldana

essentially alan, i found your vote for me yesterday to be rather surprising...maybe its my ego running away from me, but i didnt understand why, when posed with a choice between adding one loop to my noose or DT's, you chose me...you and i have been in alot of games together, and just hoops virtually never gets day one votes, I found it intriguing that you were willing to eliminate me on the first day, considering you know very well what I bring to the team.

to me, it seemed like a wolf seizing an opportunity to get rid of a very strong villager, hence my vote today. [/ego trip]

Nope, it was actually pretty much what I said last night. I tossed it out earlier what my thoughts were, no sense in a run away on Chief, and you and DT were the only two close by to keep things close. I threw that out to see what people commented in regards to that as there were plenty of people around last night.

Only person who said anything was Barkeep who stated it was a race between DT and Chief Rum (even though Chief was up by 2 votes, and you had just as many votes as DT). Not knowing what barkeep's angle was, I decided to go the other direction from him by voting you instead. I still don't understand why he subtly left you out of the mix there, but I assume it was just oversight on his part. On day 1, without anything to go on however, I had to take everything into consideration.

Its not like I really endangered you any, for you to be lynched, it would have taken someone else to switch votes condemning you as well as whatever the tiebreaker is. Thats why I stated your claim of me pushing for a tie seemingly does not carry much weight at all.

[saldana]

ok alan, i guess i can buy that for now...not entirely sold, but enough to

unvote alant

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm not willing to buy this argument. Studies have shown that having a child makes you dumber so I'm willing to suggest that since you are now a father you are a worse WW player than before.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Whoops. Read that as hoops at first. Please disregard.

This one threw me when I first read it. Was about to extend congratulations to Bullet, and then vote for Barkeep

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think cronin's reasoning is a little bit odd, particularly considering his involvement in the voting yesterday. At the same time, it doesn't seem particularly wolfish to drive the discussion on an early day like this unless something noteworthy happened last night — which there's no indication that such actually happened.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Only person who said anything was Barkeep who stated it was a race between DT and Chief Rum (even though Chief was up by 2 votes, and you had just as many votes as DT). Not knowing what barkeep's angle was, I decided to go the other direction from him by voting you instead. I still don't understand why he subtly left you out of the mix there, but I assume it was just oversight on his part. On day 1, without anything to go on however, I had to take everything into consideration.

I suggest DT because I never gave any serious thought to saldana yesterday. In my mind it was between the two. Though this does strike me that if you were trying to make things close as strange by going in a third direction.

[RendeR]

Good god being a basic Golden Ticket Wielding fat kid is HARD. I'd rather be a seer again like I was the first to games I played....

Having to actually think through all y'all's perforated logic is...well..painful =)

[RendeR]

Hrmmm


Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe....


No one's convinced me otherwise so...


VOTE DADDYTORGO

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Hrmmm


Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe....


No one's convinced me otherwise so...


VOTE DADDYTORGO

are you ryming because your an umpa-lumpa?

[Lathum]

so for those of us who are lazy what is the deal with ardent?

[Lathum]

I will probably get home right around the deadline, can someone keep an accurate vote count so the lynch isn't held up if I am running late?

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so for those of us who are lazy what is the deal with ardent?

I went and read all of his FTB answers and really didn't see anything suspicious. I am curious too.

Also, I didn't even know Render was in this game till I just saw him vote.... I might need to start paying more attention to him

[st.cronin]

oog:

Ardent's biological father passed away recently, apparently a suicide.

[bulletsponge]

aww man, thats sad

[Mr. Wednesday]

It's on the second page of the FTB answer thread, as I recall.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Good god being a basic Golden Ticket Wielding fat kid is HARD. I'd rather be a seer again like I was the first to games I played....

Having to actually think through all y'all's perforated logic is...well..painful =)

Well, yeah. Naturally it's hard when you don't really know anything.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

if i was a wolf i would already know who i was voting for.

Are you saying this in a sense of, "as a wolf I would have enough knowledge to know who to vote for", or in a sense of, "if I were a wolf, I know who I would want to vote for assuming that they were not a wolf too"?

Basically, what I'm getting after is, do you think that there's somebody on the block who's more likely to be receiving votes from wolves?

[Mr. Wednesday]

Swaggs is awfully quiet. I feel inclined to shake the bushes a little bit and see what comes out.

VOTE Swaggs

[hoopsguy]

So I'm trying to figure out "Why Ardent?". There are obviously the standard reason - pick someone who is less likely to have the bodyguard on him that night. But was there anything in his posts to make him a target? Not that I saw on a brief recap.

The idea that I can't shake, and it is 100% metagame, is that it was someone who decided he deserved an early kill as a "payback" from the Survivor game. I did not play in this game, so it would require some work for me to comb through those threads to figure out who might be grinding an axe. Can anyone who recalls that game give me a hand here? Without having a clear Day 2 vote I wouldn't mind at least having some possibilities from that game to consider.

[st.cronin]

Hoops, I believe Grammaticus was on the other end of the blowup. Looking at the roster of this game, the only person who I think was involved in that at all was Barkeep, as the host. I don't think he would play that way.

[Passacaglia]

If it's the blowup you guys are thinking of, I think it was me that was on the other end. And we made up pretty soon after it was over, so I don't think I would be seeking revenge or anything -- if anything, he would be seeking revenge on me.

Anyway, why choose the survivor game? There have been other games since then -- or is it because it was the most recent drama?