Jan 2006 LOL...Wie misses the cut AGAIN!!!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Fuck most 9th graders.

Not if you want to stay out of prison.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by WrongWay

Like death and taxes Wie once again proves she is all hype by missing the cut for the 7th straight time.



Where are all those Wie Warriors now.

Like death and taxes WrongWay spews more shit from his keyboard.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

Bee from Fairfax Virgina says different.

You would think it would at least try to be the same for each state. I wonder how Jr. High sports works in VA if some schools have 6-8 and others have 7-9?

Sorry, I went to school in WV and I'm an old man...so things may have changed there in the last 20 years.

As far as sports go, I played on the HS team in 9th grade even though I didn't attend the HS.
Edit: Most 9th graders when I was in school played on the Junior High team. I think there were 3 of us that played on the HS team.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

In most US schools 9th graders are NOT High schoolers

Actually, 9th grade in most states is considered to be part of high school, i.e. part of the credits one earns towards a 4 year HS diploma. Where the students are physically located (in many cases, the middle school) is immaterial - 9th grade is high school.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

But that doesn't mean people need to hate her or to want her to do it "their way" simply because they don't like what she's doing. She's 16 years old. She's a girl. We forget that Tiger was the first "child prodigy" of sorts that made good and surpassed our expectations. LeBron James is doing it in a different way and is living up to the hype, but he plays a completely different game and the dynamics are different naturally.

Was this directed at me? I've got yet another frustrated response, but I'm hoping that I don't have to use it here.

[IwasHere]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Se Ri Pak, a Korean WOMAN who plays and has WON on the LPGA tour came in 10th in KPGA tour event.

Why was I thinking this was a 13 year old girl? Born in 1977 she would of been about 25.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

I blame Nike for making her compete in some of these tournaments and not allowing her to play full time on the women's circuit. I guess Nike has decided that they do not want her losing to amateur girls her same age. Nike was fast to anounce how Wie made the cut at some men's Asian tournament last month, but did not mention the fact that a couple years ago a 13 year old Korean girl had made the cut at the same men's tournament.

I don't think she can play full time on the women's circuit yet because of their age limit, so she's getting into the tournaments she can, including men's tournaments, for the time being.

[IwasHere]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't think she can play full time on the women's circuit yet because of their age limit, so she's getting into the tournaments she can, including men's tournaments, for the time being.

Really? What was the point of her turning pro then?

I am assuming she has been playing in all these tournament on Sponsor Exemptions.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

Really? What was the point of her turning pro then?

$$$$$$$$$

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

Bee from Fairfax Virgina says different.

You would think it would at least try to be the same for each state. I wonder how Jr. High sports works in VA if some schools have 6-8 and others have 7-9?

I promise you that a LARGE MAJORITY of VA is 9-12 is HS...

And I would come just short of promising you that is true for the rest of the US.

[wade moore]

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school#United_States

United States

Main article: Secondary education in the United States

In the United States, high schools generally consists of grades 9, 10, 11, and 12, although the inclusion of grade 9 varies by school district. Students usually graduate from high school in the year of their 18th birthday if they were born between January 1 and August 31, or in the following year if they were born between September 1 and December 31, except in New York (where all students usually graduate in the year of their 18th birthday) and California (where students usually graduate in the year of their 18th birthday if they were born between January 1 and November 30, or in the following year if they were born between December 1 and December 31). A few American secondary schools still incorporate grades 7 through 12, but the norm is usually either grades 9-12 or grades 10-12.
About 90% of American students complete high school.[3][4] A high school diploma or GED certificate is usually required for entrance into a two or four-year college or university and to other post-secondary education programs.
As a practical matter, while laws in most states mandate school attendance at least until graduation or age 16, enforcement of the truancy laws is sporadic. Conversely, students who have failed a grade may remain in high school past the age of 18. In general, students over 18 attend alternative high schools, with the end result being attainment of a GED. State laws vary on the cut-off age for students to receive free public education services.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't think she can play full time on the women's circuit yet because of their age limit, so she's getting into the tournaments she can, including men's tournaments, for the time being.

Do you have any additional information on the age limit and the rules surrounding it? If what you say is true, it does add an interesting wrinkle to the situation.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Was this directed at me? I've got yet another frustrated response, but I'm hoping that I don't have to use it here.

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, to be honest. I just go off sometimes...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by digamma

I don't think she can play full time on the women's circuit yet because of their age limit, so she's getting into the tournaments she can, including men's tournaments, for the time being.

They could exempt her if she applied. But they never applied.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, to be honest. I just go off sometimes...

Ok, I'll hold off on the response then. I've tried to explain where I think some of the negativity comes from, and where I think she might be hurting her career, and most responses come back as "I don't see why you hate her for wanting to play with men". That frustrates me a bit because it misses the point so completely.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by stevew

The first page of this thread has some definate LOL moments. Now that I'm re-reading it for the first time in months.

I'm pretty sure the heated argument over middle school grades will age well. Check back in a few months.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by wade moore

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school#United_States

So, basically what I said.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I promise you that a LARGE MAJORITY of VA is 9-12 is HS...

And I would come just short of promising you that is true for the rest of the US.

Actually, the entire state is considered to be in high school starting in 9th grade, regardless of what the district calls the building their classes are housed in - http://www.pen.k12.va.us/2plus4in2004/faq.shtml.

In fact, IWasHere, I bet that your state's rules are the same - 9th graders are taking high school classes, earning credits towards their high school diploma. Just because they happen to be housed in the building called the middle school in your district, does not mean they are not high schoolers.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think I am looking for reasons to criticize her. I really do believe that she could be good enough to compete with the men, I just think she could be going about it a better way.

She clearly wants to play against the best competition and she thinks that will make her better. In the process, she is probably looking to cash in a bit on her fame while going through the process. I happen to believe that she will stunt her progress by going this route. Having stretch goals are a good thing, but if you reach too high you will start to not really try to reach the goals you know are unreachable. I would advise her to hold off on trying to play with the men, and get a taste for winning on the women's tour. Even though she has come close to winning on the women's tour, she hasn't yet. You need to win a few times to let the hunger build and to get used to winning.

While you may cheer for her more because others are rooting against her, the fact is that she isn't gaining nearly as many fans as if she dominated on the women's tour for a couple years. This will also hurt her career since she won't have as big a fan base to feed off of.

If she does qualify for the Men's Open, she will have earned the right to be there and I won't say anything about her not deserving to be there. But I would still say that I think she is doing herself a disservce by reaching so high already.

If she did things right, I could see her being the biggest name in women's golf and possibly golf in general. I just worry that she isn't even going to be playing golf in 5 years the way she is going.

And I still fail to see how most of this holds true. Her fan base is huge. Yeah, some people hate her guts, but most of those people don't understand the game of golf.

This idea that everyone is in a box and there is only one way to do things is baffling to me. Who is to say playing with the men isn't HELPING her career? Even though she hasn't won on the LPGA tour, she has played exceptionally well. We aren't talking about a young golfer trying to make some cuts and being overmatched.

We are talking about a kid who is consistently finishing in the top five of majors. Her goal is to play with the men eventually. I have no idea if she'll make it or not, but I don't see what the problem is with her playing in some mens events now to get experience. In fact, I think now is the perfect time.

The expectations are low, the money is high, and the experience could prove to be invaluable down the road. As for burnout, that's always possible, no matter what way she goes about this. It's possible with anyone.

If it happens to her, she'll have a nice amount of cash in the bank and will be able to live the second part of her life well taken care of. The reality is that she probably won't burn out. No idea what's going to happen on the men's circuit for Wie, but she's likely going to dominate the women's tour for the next twenty years.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by TroyF

And I still fail to see how most of this holds true. Her fan base is huge. Yeah, some people hate her guts, but most of those people don't understand the game of golf.

This idea that everyone is in a box and there is only one way to do things is baffling to me. Who is to say playing with the men isn't HELPING her career? Even though she hasn't won on the LPGA tour, she has played exceptionally well. We aren't talking about a young golfer trying to make some cuts and being overmatched.

At this point, I'm saying that it may not help her career and may actually hurt it. I could be very wrong as I have no great experience in this area, but that is my current stance. Being a mostly sports-related message board, it is still proper to debate sports issues, right? Or is it bad form to debate a sports issue dealing with a girl?

We are talking about a kid who is consistently finishing in the top five of majors. Her goal is to play with the men eventually. I have no idea if she'll make it or not, but I don't see what the problem is with her playing in some mens events now to get experience. In fact, I think now is the perfect time.

So are you disagreeing with my post explaining why I think this may stunt her development, or did you not read it? I don't think her trying to compete with men is a problem, per se, but I do worry that it could be bad for her development.

The expectations are low, the money is high, and the experience could prove to be invaluable down the road. As for burnout, that's always possible, no matter what way she goes about this. It's possible with anyone.

If it happens to her, she'll have a nice amount of cash in the bank and will be able to live the second part of her life well taken care of. The reality is that she probably won't burn out. No idea what's going to happen on the men's circuit for Wie, but she's likely going to dominate the women's tour for the next twenty years.

The money is high, and I have no problem with a talented athelete cashing in while her stock is high. If she can make $50million and retire in 5 years, that is great. If she can make $200million+ and retire in 50 years, that is great too.

My point was, and still is, that by reaching too high and not establishing a pattern of winning, her development will end up being slower and less complete...possibly quite so. Again, I could be wrong. I'm not rooting against her, and I'm not hoping that she will crash and burn. We'll just have to wait and see if she follows the path of LeBron James, or Todd Marinovich.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by The Article

Fifteen-year-old Tadd Fujikawa, a high school freshman from Honolulu, holed a 60-foot birdie putt on the third playoff hole to earn the third spot.

I can't believe our bashing of WrongWay degraded into a debate about what a middle schooler is. All I did was read the article.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Do you have any additional information on the age limit and the rules surrounding it? If what you say is true, it does add an interesting wrinkle to the situation.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSpo...ory?id=1421622

The LPGA has an age requirement of 18. You can apply for an exemption as young as 15, but the LPGA has been very adamant about not granting exemptions.

Morgan Pressel applied for an exemption last year and was initially rejected, but they allowed her to participate in the Q-School since she would turn 18 in May and then would be legal. She qualified in the Q-School for the tour, at which point they then granted her exemption so she could begin play in January instead of May.

If Wie pursed the same course, I'm reasonably certain the LPGA would make a similar exemption; if she qualified at Q-School, they would let her in. But I think she has different ambitions. I don't she necessarily wants to be a great women's golfer; I think she wants to be a great golfer.

And from a financial standpoint, the course of action she is taking is suiting her much better than if she just said she was going to play the LPGA and not try to do anything else. She's got a lot more endorement and sponsor money than Morgan Pressel, even though both are very accomplished and similar players.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by BrianD

My point was, and still is, that by reaching too high and not establishing a pattern of winning, her development will end up being slower and less complete...possibly quite so. Again, I could be wrong. I'm not rooting against her, and I'm not hoping that she will crash and burn. We'll just have to wait and see if she follows the path of LeBron James, or Todd Marinovich.

I do think that's a valid concern. There are plenty of stories of teenage phenoms who flame out. I think more apt comparisons may be to look at tennis and see the struggles that Tracy Austin and Jennifer Capriati went through after reaching great success at a young age and flamed out. It can happen.

Part of that is luck and you can't account for that. Tracy Austin got hurt and could never recover from injuries. But a large part of it is maturity and the ability to handle success and failure at an early age. Capriati simply wasn't mature enough to handle success and went down the drugs and shoplifting role. I always like Capriati, but it was always very clear from early on and even during her late career renaissance and that she wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and had maturity issues.

There's a lot of talk about comparing her to Tiger and the path he took. I don't think there is any doubt Tiger was ready to compete as a pro long before he turned pro, but he remained an amateur because he was having fun in college and having fun as an amateur. Maybe Wie just wasn't having fun as an amateur and wanted to do something more. My first impression of Wie is that she tends to play better against better competition. I think she got bored playing against amateur women because she was so much better than all but a handful that it wasn't pushing her to be better and she went through the motions. In that regard, I think the path she is pursuing is a path to be a better player.

But I do agree that there is a concern that she won't be able to handle so much money and fame at a young age. That's tough for anybody, man or woman. But I don't think that's a reason for her not to compete against men; that's a reason for her being either an amateur or pro.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I do think that's a valid concern.

Thank you for being the first person to give me that much. Flaming out after initial success is a distinct possibility, and it is really tough to guard against. I don't think it would matter if she gains that success in the men's or women's tour, the result will be the same. Either she flames out or she doesn't. My concerns don't really address her being able to handle success. I'm more worried about her handling fame and "failure".

Failure is, of course, a relative term. Competing in a men's tournament is a great accomplishment. Finishing second in a few women't tournaments is a great accomplishment. She has already had lots of great accomplishments, but in the world of golf, you either finish first or not-first.

I'm a big proponent of setting goals, accomplishing those goals, and then setting new goals. If you follow Tiger's path, he played at many different levels, dominated at each level, and then dominated as a pro. He got a taste for winning, decided he liked it, and became tenacious.

Michelle hasn't seemed to develop that level of tenaciousness and confidence yet. Part of the reason for that is that she is young. Everybody has less confidence when they are young. I think another reason is that she hasn't done a lot of winning yet. Success breeds success.

If she really is bored at her current level, maybe stretching so far is a good idea. Maybe it will really improve her game. Maybe she'll reach a respectable place on the men's money-list in a few years. I just worry that at her age, the stress and the lack of success (defined as winning) might be too much to handle. She is reaching for the top of the mountain without any intermediate hand-holds. We'll see if she can grasp the peak or if she goes tumbling into the abyss.

[IwasHere]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I do think that's a valid concern. There are plenty of stories of teenage phenoms who flame out. I think more apt comparisons may be to look at tennis and see the struggles that Tracy Austin and Jennifer Capriati went through after reaching great success at a young age and flamed out. It can happen.

What great success are you talking about? Could you please list any of the major tournaments she has won.

I think your list is going to be empty, because she has yet to win on any level.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

What great success are you talking about? Could you please list any of the major tournaments she has won.

I think your list is going to be empty, because she has yet to win on any level.

Winning golf tournaments isn't exactly a slam dunk for people not named Tiger Woods or Annika Sorenstam. It's a big deal to win 1 in a season and winning a major is a career accomplishment in golf. And to a lesser degree in tennis.

You're talking about it as if its some routine thing that everyone does.

She's finished in the Top-10 numerous times at 16. She's younger than any of her contemporaries and yet, she's not just playing them, she's BEATING them.

If she joined the LPGA tour after going to Q-School, she'd have to play the LPGA schedule, meaning her pursuit of men's events -- and the sponsors dollars for being essentially a free agent -- wouldn't be there.

But you can't deny this girl's talent. She's streaky, sure. She hasn't "learned to win, yet." I'll grant you that.

Her performance at the LPGA's first major was a good indicator of how she's progressed and yet, how far she has to go. She was on 18, all she needed was par to enter the playoff with 2 other golfers. She took a chip on the fringe, rather than a putt which would've setup a tap-in for par.

Afterwards, she said she was going for birdie. That's where more experience in situations like that would've helped her. It's far better to put yourself in position to win via playoff, (aka playing it safe) versus going to for the kill when you have no cushion.

But that also shows you that she doesn't give a damn what the media, male golfers, women golfers or anyone else thinks about her path and you have to respect that to a degree. Because no one is pulling the strings here, this girl is doing what she wants.

If at 25, she doesn't fulfill her "potential" this is far from an Anna Kournikova situation, because Michelle isn't going to be posing in swimsuits anytime soon that we can figure. She's doing what Tiger did for men's golf.

By competing with men now, she gets the advice of the guys on tour who -- among the elite players who aren't threatened by her -- see her as something great for golf and a player with a ton of talent and skill.

The ONLY reason this is an issue is because she's a girl. Folks wanted Tiger on tour before college and throughout his time at Stanford. For Wie, she's further along than Tiger was at this point in his career -- he didn't make his first pro cut until he was 19. (at the Masters, no less...)

So, for all the folks who say she needs to win are folks who don't watch golf. Otherwise, they'd say the same thing about Natalie Gulbis and Morgan Pressel.

Instead, they're just threatened by this girl's ability to do unconventional things. And the fact that she's rich for what they percieve is not being very good, when clearly..she's beyond good.

Link

For those who say she needs to win, Wie has redefined winning without hoisting a trophy.

She didn’t win the Sony Open, but her 68 in the second round at age 14 was the lowest score ever shot by a female on a men’s tour. (Yes, Annika..that means you.) She didn’t win the U.S. Amateur Public Links — or a trip to the Masters that came with it — but she reached the quarterfinals last summer and kept everyone watching and wondering. (Losing to the guy who won the thing...)

Along the way, these “victories” have turned her into the biggest attraction in women’s golf, and probably the third-biggest draw in all of golf behind Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. Name another player capable of spiking ticket sales or TV ratings.

Against women, winning now seems to be a matter of when, not if.

In her only two LPGA Tour events this year, she missed a playoff by one shot both times, one of those tournaments a major. That’s what led to her free pass to the U.S. Women’s Open. Had she been an LPGA Tour member — the tour has a minimum age limit of 18 — Wie would be No. 16 on the money list after two tournaments. The top 35 are exempt to the Women’s Open.

[BrianD]

I think this is where we request you not feed the trolls.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I think this is where we request you not feed the trolls.

I thought that after I clicked "send"

A lot of times, I just use this place as a notepad to flesh out things I want to write in a commentary piece later or something along those lines.

Plus, nothing like increasing the post count.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Plus, nothing like increasing the post count.

word

[IwasHere]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Her performance at the LPGA's first major was a good indicator of how she's progressed and yet, how far she has to go. She was on 18, all she needed was par to enter the playoff with 2 other golfers. She took a chip on the fringe, rather than a putt which would've setup a tap-in for par.

This would be the tournament that she was thrown out of for cheating. Correct?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I thought that after I clicked "send"

A lot of times, I just use this place as a notepad to flesh out things I want to write in a commentary piece later or something along those lines.

Plus, nothing like increasing the post count.

No, nothing wrong with increasing the post count. I had just really hoped we were past the "but she wasn't won anything yet" argument.

[IwasHere]

Originally Posted by BrianD

No, nothing wrong with increasing the post count. I had just really hoped we were past the "but she wasn't won anything yet" argument.

Why, has she recently won something?

We will see how she does in the Women's US open.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by IwasHere

This would be the tournament that she was thrown out of for cheating. Correct?

Either watch women's golf or learn how to use google.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I think this is where we request you not feed the trolls.

Wie has an AK47, since she is armed with golf knowledge.

[stevew]

It takes a lot of balls to get banned in a thread, and then to post in it again with a different username.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by stevew

It takes a lot of balls to get banned in a thread, and then to post in it again with a different username.

Not really, it's only a message board.

[EagleFan]

Who is this idiot and what is his obsession with this girl? I think it has reached a whole new level of "pathetic loser".

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by stevew

It takes a lot of balls to get banned in a thread, and then to post in it again with a different username.

iwashere = wrongway??????

[BrianD]

Either the same person, or functionally (disfunctionally?) equivalent.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by KWhit

iwashere = wrongway??????

I think so. IwasHere is just as (as someone just said) disfunctionally the same. Started to post here a lot right after WrongWay got tossed. I even called him WrongWay in a thread not too long ago.

[kcchief19]

Your U.S. Women's Open update: Wie is currently tied for second at 1-under, 1 shot behind Sorenstam.

[Subby]

LOL WIE IS HOT.

Wait. How old is she?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Subby

LOL WIE IS HOT.

Wait. How old is she?

Go ogle chicks at a buffet.

[Subby]

Good suggestion.

I googled "chicks at a buffet" and got this:

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Subby

Good suggestion.

I googled "chicks at a buffet" and got this:

Awesome

SI

[Ben E Lou]

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!! I am SICK AND TIRED of these m*****f*****' chicks at this m*****f*****' buffet!!!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!! I am SICK AND TIRED of these m*****f*****' chicks at this m*****f*****' buffet!!!

Why did I laugh so hard at this?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Why did I laugh so hard at this?

When you figure it out, explain to me why I did.

[robbgmaier3]

pine cones?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by robbgmaier3

pine cones?

AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH