Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime

[thesloppy]

Yeah, I don't know how to describe it properly, but once it was over I felt like I just watched a single pilot episode rather than an entire series of an epic fantasy.


I keep coming back to how unremarkable each and every one of the five candidate protagonists were. As the plot twisted and grew into something grand and complex every one of those characters stayed exactly the same. I didn't give a shit about Rand and Egwene's relationship because they never gave me a single reason to & Perrin pretty much mouth-breathed his way through 8 episodes without ever saying anything of consequence. Mat seemed like the character that had the most effort put into his development....until he peaced out entirely.

[spleen1015]

I find it odd that Besos said he wanted his GoT and yet they only gave this show 8 one hour episodes. The showrunner asked for 10 episodes with a 2 hour pilot. They should have given it to him. My hope is the show gets enough viewers that future seasons get 10+ episodes.

If 8 episodes cost you $80 million, what's another $20-30 million to do it right? You're fucking Amazon.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I find it odd that Besos said he wanted his GoT and yet they only gave this show 8 one hour episodes. The showrunner asked for 10 episodes with a 2 hour pilot. They should have given it to him. My hope is the show gets enough viewers that future seasons get 10+ episodes.

If 8 episodes cost you $80 million, what's another $20-30 million to do it right? You're fucking Amazon.

I think there are issues beyond just money with the show. Why does a show with a budget 4-5 times a CW show look worse?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think there are issues beyond just money with the show. Why does a show with a budget 4-5 times a CW show look worse?

Nearly every scene looks too clean. The set, the costumes, everything is incredibly clean to the point that I know I'm looking at a set in most scenes. The CGI is really hit and miss too. Any closeups of the Trollocs looks like it's straight from CW.

Yeah the editing, as I mentioned earlier, tends to be pretty poor as well. Little things that I shouldn't notice like the actors being in different positions when the angle changes and scenes that shouldn't be placed back to back.

It's a solid show that got better as as the season went on but this isn't what I was expecting with the budget and hype surrounding it.

[thesloppy]

Upon reflection it was also entirely humorless, which I feel is often the dividing line between a good and a great show, regardless of genre. Watching one-dimensional characters communicate entirely in expositional dialog, delivered in hushed, ultra-serious tones is not compelling stuff (sorry Christopher Nolan).

[spleen1015]

I've tried not to be too critical because I'm grateful to have the show.

The production value doesn't even come close to be on level with something like GoT. The CW comparison is right on. Shows like Arrow and the Flash don't even look as fake as this show has at times.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Nearly every scene looks too clean. The set, the costumes, everything is incredibly clean to the point that I know I'm looking at a set in most scenes.

I agree with that entirely, every character always looked like they had just stepped out of a wardrobe & makeup trailer.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Are you sure the Big Bad is dead? Is that really what happened?
I don't want to get to spoiler-y, but not everything is always as it seems.
Edit: btw, the people that showed up at the end were mentioned earlier in the season. The head of the Blue Ajah told Moraine she was going to the west coast to see why ships were disappearing. Here is the answer to that.

No? Or yes I assume he'll show back up, but it was presented as definitive in the show?

My apologies for missing that reference earlier, glad there was a little hint and thanks for pointing me to it.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I find it odd that Besos said he wanted his GoT and yet they only gave this show 8 one hour episodes. The showrunner asked for 10 episodes with a 2 hour pilot. They should have given it to him. My hope is the show gets enough viewers that future seasons get 10+ episodes.

If 8 episodes cost you $80 million, what's another $20-30 million to do it right? You're fucking Amazon.

I'll give them a pass because of Covid and the break. I haven't/don't care to dive in depth into the filming, but I know there was a break during a pandemic, I can understand getting a season out to justify the expenditure & line up future funding. And for all our nitpicking here I think it was a quite competent season that captured the world & justified more $$$/seasons, even if we give it a B+ at most.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Upon reflection it was also entirely humorless, which I feel is often the dividing line between a good and a great show, regardless of genre. Watching one-dimensional characters communicate entirely in expositional dialog, delivered in hushed, ultra-serious tones is not compelling stuff (sorry Christopher Nolan).

Ok now I'm gonna fight Though I do agree even in the Nolan movies they got too super serial later on. But I'll still Stan The Prestige amongst others, and I can't think of one joke in that movie.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Yeah, I don't know how to describe it properly, but once it was over I felt like I just watched a single pilot episode rather than an entire series of an epic fantasy.

Supposedly that's how the first book is as well. In fact the series got me to read the books... it took 150 pages to get out of the Two Rivers... I realize the pace was rushed in the show, but holy crap does the book just take its sweet damn time. It kind of feels like a prequel story, though I've been told it really is, as the 'real story' doesn't start until Book 4 (we'll see if I make it that far).

I also think the complaints about 'too clean' are kind of silly. The characters are pretty dirty in the later episodes. And people are strangely comparing it to how grungy Game of Thrones was. GoT was set in a fantasy Medieval setting. WoT is set in a fantasy Renaissance setting, where people constantly bathe and even sheepherders know how to read. The sanitation in Europe was far better in the 1700s than it was in the 1400s - as a comparison.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

though I've been told it really is, as the 'real story' doesn't start until Book 4.

Man, that is quite the lead-up.

[spleen1015]

There are plenty of things that happen in the first three books that factor in the rest of the story. Book 4 just has a lot of really good shit in it.

[GrantDawg]

Yeah. The original book was written as a stand alone. Then It became a trilogy. Then it was supposed to be a 8 book series. 14 books later, there is a bunch of lore to cram into short series.

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[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

No? Or yes I assume he'll show back up, but it was presented as definitive in the show?

To be fair "the Dark One deafeated" is is exactly how the book made it feel as well, but the tv show actually made it more clear. Info just from the show:

Spoiler

The whole thing was a trap. The "Dark One" lured the Dragon to the Eye for this confrontation. His plan was either to turn Rand to the Dark (which he then could free himself and break the Wheel. Game over) or he could get Rand to use the power on "him". That would not destroy "him" but would break the seal at the Eye that helps imprison him. That is why Moraine holds the white rock in her hand and says "this was not the last battle." Why Padan Fain said the Dark One has not been defeated. Also why the "Dark One" was smiling as Rand seemingly disintegrated him.

[Edward64]

FWIW, season 2 is sometime late 2022.

While Season 2 has yet to announce a release date, a 2022 premiere seems all but certain with the timing of the principal filmmaking. If The Wheel of Time was already halfway through production in November 2021, it does appear on track to premiere in late 2022.

[GrantDawg]

Just got home from "Jordoncon" weekend. Had an absolute blast. One of the panels was a video from the "Wheel of Time" show runner and some of the cast answering questions. The main question that still is not answered is "when is season 2 coming out?" They just started filming season 3, with principle filming for season 2 having been completed in May of last year. There is no indication as to why there has been a long delay. I'm pretty sure it is all around the expected changes in the special affects.

[GrantDawg]

We got a date for season 2! September 1st. They released some shots from set and they look fantastic. Twitter of Time is melting down.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm excited for this! I have never read the books, but really enjoyed the first season. It was fun!

[Lathum]

Me too. Except I’ve forgotten what happened in S1.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I'm excited for this! I have never read the books, but really enjoyed the first season. It was fun!

I think this next season is going to be even better. The story for the books being covered are great, but also the production value looks like is getting a big jump.

[Edward64]

Nice. About same time as Starfield and BG3!

[GrantDawg]

Trailer drop:

[RainMaker]

I don't know if it was Covid or something else, but I don't like this trend of going 2 years between seasons. Especially when a season is only 8 episodes long. Feels like I would need to re-watch season 1 again just to remember what happened.

[thesloppy]

I forgot this show even happened. I don't think I'll bother to pick it back up.

[GrantDawg]

It is a really dumb decision by Amazon. They are planning on alternating this show and The Ring of Power series on alternate years. I agree that it is stupid, but the payoff is the past production on this season looks amazing.

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[Edward64]

I'll definitely have to re-watch s1. Don't mind it though, this is good enough for a re-watch (like Witcher & Strange New World, Rings is a toss-up, Foundation is a lost cause).

[Edward64]

Enjoying my re-watch of s1 in anticipation of s2 on Sep 1.

Trolloc costume/makeup is still comical. Special effects is okay but not spectacular. Acting is okay. Story line is engrossing and thoroughly enjoying it again. Can't wait for Sep 1.

[GrantDawg]

The season 2 previews look really good.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I’m looking forward to this show. Rosamund Pike is good in it.

[GrantDawg]

Early reviews are trending positive. First three episodes tonight starting at 8pm EST. I doubt I will see all three tonight.

[GrantDawg]

I didn't mean to stay up and watch all three episodes, but I did. Wow, loved it.

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[Edward64]

Loved the third episode best, very well done!

The other two were also pretty good. Great start to s2

[Edward64]

Another pretty good episode s2.e4. Enjoying all the MILFy characters.

As someone who only read book 1 (and have no hang ups on how faithful the series is to the books), this is a great adaptation.

[GrantDawg]

2.4 was excellent. There is only one change I'm not digging (but I'm not saying because it is very spoilery), but everything else was fantastic! Glad now knows who Lanfear is. She is my favorite Forsaken. Think a super-powered "Overly Attached Girlfriend."

[Mota]

I would say the adaptation is fairly faithful to the books. There are some very large differences, but you're not going to get 14 seasons of this show (for 14 books), so they're going to have to make changes and skip some fairly big storylines if they want to finish the story. That's okay, the slog around books 7-9 killed me the first time and I gave up on the series, I restarted a few years ago and am back to book 6 (via audiobooks).

[GrantDawg]

I think the big catalyst of change was the aging of the characters. If they kept the main characters as young, innocent, and naive then the show could come off as more a tren show. Bringing in the darker elements of the later books much earlier is more interesting, and easier to do with an older cast.

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[Edward64]

Oh, so characters were younger in the books? There wasn't all this MILFy action?

[GrantDawg]

The kids were 17-18. Moraine was in her 30's. Selene appeared to be close to Rand's age. But there were still some Milfyness, because many of the Aes Sedai were in their hundreds. Not to get too spoilery, in the book there are group of women that are a few hundred years old. I wouldn't be surprised if that group gets cut out though.

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[RainMaker]

Is the new Mat good? I thought the actor who played him in Season 1 was one of the best on the show outside of Pike.

[GrantDawg]

I think he is much more book Mat than the original.

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[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Mota

I would say the adaptation is fairly faithful to the books.

Wait, what?

They absolutely butchered season 1 as far as anything even resembling book adaptation goes.

[Edward64]

Moiraine was in Doom!

[flere-imsaho]

To be fair, so was Eomer.

[GrantDawg]

So, how was meeting the real Lanfear for the first time?

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[Edward64]

Another solid episode 5 this week.

I know I'm supposed to fear the Seanchan but hard to do when I'm chuckling at their long fingernails and their baby pacifier. I assume those were in the books but think they could have made them less comical?

Lanfear is a babe. Moirane less so, but still badass.

I'm glad they gave more time to Perrin. I like the wolf bros. That fight scene was too dark for me but there were some really good moves.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Another solid episode 5 this week.

I know I'm supposed to fear the Seanchan but hard to do when I'm chuckling at their long fingernails and their baby pacifier. I assume those were in the books but think they could have made them less comical?

Lanfear is a babe. Moirane less so, but still badass.

I'm glad they gave more time to Perrin. I like the wolf bros. That fight scene was too dark for me but there were some really good moves.

The Seanchan are by far the hardest group to portray from the books. I have a hard time imagine exactly the description in the book. They have sort of a Roman Empire vibe, but then the crazy helmets, fingernails and all that are directly from the book. That guy that on the throne is supposed to be a blade master as well. I still have no idea how they are going to have him wield a sword with those 3 foot nails.

[GrantDawg]

Not to hype tonight's episode too much, but this is the book-lore expert for the show:

Just me casually waiting for this day for the past 2 years #episode6 #TwitterOfTime @TheWheelOfTime

— WoTonPrime’s Book Nerd (@sarahenakamura) September 21, 2023

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Not to hype tonight's episode too much, but this is the book-lore expert for the show:

I'm still struggling from something in last week's episode.

You know how when Jason gets "killed", they leave the body for X minutes and when they return, Jason is gone?

Same principle, how come Moiraine or Rand didn't like cut off Selene/Lanfear's head completely and like toss it into the woods? Wouldn't that have bought them some more time?

Spoiler

So if you are a protagonist in a horror (or like) movie, always cut off the damn head, or bash the damn head in. Always.

Or if you are a bad guy in a James Bond movie, always shoot Bond right away after capturing him. Don't tie him up in a chair for later

[Honolulu_Blue]

I've never read the books, but I am really enjoying the show. It's super fun!

[GrantDawg]

Because only one thing can actually kill the Forsaken. Rand doesn't know how (yet) and Moraine is cut off from the Power.

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[GrantDawg]

I knew this episode would bring the pain, but it might have overdelivered.

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