OT: The Joy of Parenting (or lack thereof)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Craig, I appreciate your updating this, you're in a situation that every parent fears I think -- not Asperger's specifically or even any one thing, but rather, a situation that you can't "fix" ... because I think at some level that's what we all really want to be able to do -- just make whatever is wrong for our kids better somehow.

One thing that strikes me right now, after doing some quick brush-up reading on Asperger's -- you may have to make some choices that you aren't wild about, given your general feelings about medicating basically only when it's absolutely neccessary.

Even though most of the medication prescribed for those with Asp. just treats symptoms rather than providing any sort of cure, that may be an important part of accomplishing what you said at the end I just don't want him to grow up to be hated -- in this case, the drugs may not be absolutely unavoidable ... but they may be preferable to the results of not treatment some of the symptoms.

I wish you all the best with this, I wish there was something more we could do to help.

[Noop]

I find this interesting....

[Barkeep49]

Craig if your child does have Aspergers let me tell you not to completely despair. I have worked fairly closely with three such children who are middle schoolers. All three have recieved extensive help and they are able to function pretty well. Interactions with others can be difficult, and I am sure there are going to be many frustrations for you in the years to come, but there will also many moments of joy as he learns to express feelings besides anger and frustration, and more importantly learns how to deal with those feelings. All three of these children that I know have some friends. Although none of them will ever be voted Mr. Popular, a couple of them are well liked and understood by their peers. I'm sure the therapist will have some suggestions for you, but my message is that Aspergers does not mean your child will grow up to a life of hatred by others.

Good luck with the times to come.

[Eaglesfan27]

Craig,

Thanks for the update.

Part of my new job is opening my own clinic specilizing in children with Autism and Autistic Spectrum Disorders here at LSU (8hrs/week to start.) I've been reading more than ever about the spectrum over the past few months and I've been treating 5 children with Aspergers for the past month.

The prognosis is certainly much better than Autism. If at all possible, try to find a therapist that specializes in social skills training and have that started as soon as possible. Other therapy modalities can be useful as well, but it is NOT too young for him to start regular social skills training. Good luck and you will continue to be in my thoughts.

[Barkeep49]

And you know Eagles information must be good because he's board certified.

[Pyser]

i have a friend who we've always thought had aspergers. there are upsides to it. the kid, when he actually puts his mind to something, becomes an absolute genius at it. first it was basketball, and he dominated. DOMINATED. then, a few years ago, he switched to playing the guitar. now he tours the east coast blowing the doors off blues clubs.

im sorry to hear about your son, but maybe something like that will happen, too. id say glue his hands to a golf club, and let him become the next tiger woods. may as well make some money off it

[CraigSca]

Thanks all - I appreciate the kind words. We're actually thinking of having him join up in teh community soccer league this year, but we have concerns that it may be too rough for him. Aspies (as they are called) have a real problem when they can't be perfect at something - they must always "win" and/or do things perfectly the right time. As you can understand, you can't possibly do things perfect the first time, and so they become incredibly frustrated. We want our child to understand camaraderie and team environments, but we're also afraid that we may be setting him up for something that he's just not ready to deal with. Yet another thing to discuss with the therapist...

Today was a pretty good day - only a few "I 'accidentally' pushed my sister"s, but other than that he was pretty good.

I'm now subscribing to a Delphi Forum devoted to the syndrome, and I'm finding it comforting to see other people in the EXACT same boat my wife and I are in.

Eagle, I know they say Asperger's is part of the autism spectrum. Is that a definite, or just a theory? My wife and I are considering getting autism awareness magnets for our cars, but my concern is that Asperger's is such a "different" form of autism that a magnet really will not do much. A magnet isn't going to teach others that my child's obnoxious behavior is because he has sensitivity to loud sounds, bright sunlight, etc., and has very little comprehension of other's feelings. When I think of autism, I think of the child staring out the window for hours at a time with very little human interaction. My son is nothing like that- but if my wife and I didn't have a child like him I would have never know there are varying degrees of autism. I'm just concerned that if other people think he's autistic they obviously will not have the level of education my wife and I have on the subject and therefore will label him and possibly blacklist him.

[Franklinnoble]

Umm... is it wrong for me to think of the "ritalin" episode of South Park when I read this thread?



I feel for you Craig. I have a 16 year old son with an attitude problem (redundant, I know), and two other kids under the age of 2. I pray every day that I have the patience to be a good Dad, and I can't imagine having to deal with what you're going through. It's gotta be immensely trying for you at times...

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Eagle, I know they say Asperger's is part of the autism spectrum. Is that a definite, or just a theory? My wife and I are considering getting autism awareness magnets for our cars, but my concern is that Asperger's is such a "different" form of autism that a magnet really will not do much. A magnet isn't going to teach others that my child's obnoxious behavior is because he has sensitivity to loud sounds, bright sunlight, etc., and has very little comprehension of other's feelings. When I think of autism, I think of the child staring out the window for hours at a time with very little human interaction. My son is nothing like that- but if my wife and I didn't have a child like him I would have never know there are varying degrees of autism. I'm just concerned that if other people think he's autistic they obviously will not have the level of education my wife and I have on the subject and therefore will label him and possibly blacklist him.

Well, I always say that almost nothing is definitely in life, but I do believe that Aspergers is in the Autistic Spectrum and certainly if you go by the strict diagnostic criteria than by the very defining characteristics it is part of the Autism Spectrum. I also think that there are some clinicians out there that falsly diagnose someone as Aspergers and it can be a tricky diagnosis at times. I really can't wait til functional MRI's become advanced enough and we can really develop the science that a scan will help us make a truly definitive diagnosis, but perhaps I'm a bit of a dreamer.. we'll see.

But to get back on track, I understand your concerns. As a clinician, I'm reluctant to apply labels to my patients for the very reasons that you mention. I don't want to stick labels that may stick for a very long time onto a child unless I'm sure. If I'm sure, I want to make the diagnosis to make sure that they get the care and help that they need.

However, I definitely believe it is a spectrum and there are different levels of Autism and also of Aspergers. I have one kid who has a very high IQ and is quite functional, but looking back on his records before he had treatment, I have no doubt that he really has Aspergers.

I also think it is important for parents to educate those around them about their child's special needs and also his/her ability levels (which can be quite high in areas.) I'm sure you know there are many support groups out there including some very good groups.

I'd also like to recommend a very good book.

"Helping Children with Autism Learn: Treatment Approaches for Parents and Professionals." It is a book by Bryna Siegel who is one of the foremost experts on Autism. She is a professor of psychiatry at UCSF and she has a great deal of good information in this book that addresses different degrees of autism, what to expect, educational aspects, and advocating for your child's education as he grows up and things to look for in schools. Her earlier book, "The World of the Autistic Child" is a classic, and is also worth reading at some point.

[Breeze]

Craig,

After our awkward correspondence over the Bill Gates thing, I thought I'd read the thread you referenced. Thought I'd impart a bit of information that we learned first hand. Soccer for us was a nightmare (though I think my son could handle it now), however, Karate has been great - you might want to check it out. Your son can interact with other students (and if you look around you can probably find a class with less than 8 to 10 students), but he still gets to develop on his own - no teamwork necessary. Plus reinforcing the discipline aspect has helped too.

[CraigSca]

Thanks. We tried karate at the age of 4 (he may have been too young) and it was an unmitigated disaster, to the point where the instructors gladly gave back our contractually-binding monthly fee and bid us good riddance . Unfortunately, I think it soured him on karate as a whole, and he probably will not want to give it a try again.

We're trying soccer this fall, as he seems to really have taken a liking to kicking the ball around. We're trying to instill the simple things as well, like there will be other kids on his team who will want to kick the ball as well, it's okay to not be perfect, listening to the coaches and referees, etc. We shall see how it goes - I'm always open to pleasant surprises.

[CraigSca]

Yet another update for everyone (or at least some therapy for me).

Our son began 1st grade 3 weeks ago. It's a long day for him (8:45am - 3:30pm) and his first exposure to a full day of school. Because of this, we were a little worried, since he really wasn't happy with half-day kindergarten. Before the school year began, we met with the principal of the school (who is just wonderful), a guidance counselor and had conversations with his 1st grade teacher, to let them know what type of child our son is. He's actually in a class that will have two teachers because it's a combo normal/kids with disabilities like dyslexia environment. We thought that was great, especially to have a teacher in the room with some kind of special education background.

The first week went pretty well, 2nd week was "okay" and now the third week has transpired. We've been in contact with his teacher and guidance counselor to make sure he's doing okay once he gets to school because he has been refusing to go. Today was a typical example - he had absolutely nothing good to say about anything - he is, by far, the crabbiest child I have ever witnessed. But the thing is...he's not doing this to be a jerk - he truly is NOT happy (how a first grader could ever be this unhappy is beyond me). He says the school day is too long, everything is boring, it's stupid, etc. Today's walk to the bus stop had him literally crying because he didn't want to go while the rest of the neighborhood children were waving and smiling to their parents.

We received a phone call from his teacher this morning saying that the first week was good (in fact, when the principal contacted her to see how he was doing in class and the potential for issues, the teacher remarked, "are you sure?! he's fine!"), the second week was okay, and last week was a disaster. Apparently, they have a series of benches they use for storytime and his table was called to come up to the benches last. There's room for 9 kids on the benches and if you're not called in the first 9, you sit on the floor. When he approached the bench, he saw there was no room and therefore pushed a girl off the bench so he could sit there. The teacher immediately took him out in the hallway and asked him why he did it - he said because she was in his way - that's a perfect snapshot of him right there - there is no "gee, I better not do that" - it's pure impulse. The teacher tried to make him see that pushing someone is absolutely unacceptable and all THAT did was make him mad at her - he gets the glowering face and scowl look. Finally, he said he understood that it was wrong and then gave the teacher the scowl along with severe attitude the rest of the day (I know, I've been on the receiving end of the completely illogical "I'm mad at you" face). The teacher told us he repeatedly says "This is boring" and "This is stupid" throughout the day. So far, there's no talk of being expelled (which is a huge fear of ours) but the teacher admitted he is a challenging child and that it must be very frustrating to parent him.

Currently, we're in therapy with him once a week - though we have a huge gap now as there were no appointments available for a month when we switched to his new school schedule. I like the therapist a lot, but I sometimes feel we should be there daily instead of once a week. Once a month, he is also seeing a psychiatrist - we've only seen him once and we're not sure about him yet.

He's playing soccer now, and that's been a pretty pleasant surprise. He's played two weeks and there have only been a handful of times where we've had to tell him not to push the other kids or not to be a bad sport (he was razzing the other team at one point).

Things haven't really been going well - but you reach an equillibrium where you make-do with the cards that life deals you. However, this phone call today from the teacher really made us wonder. What is in store for this child? He's in FIRST GRADE. As my wife likes to point out (because I forget sometimes) he is thoroughly unhappy - and we can't forget that. But the thing is, he wll find something to be pissed/unhappy about in most any situation. When he's having fun, he gets miffed because it has to end. If he's not having fun, he'll let you hear about it ad nauseum.

Thanks.

[CamEdwards]

Craig,

Keep in mind that part of this is normal behavior for a child your son's age. My son Andrew just turned 5. Every time (and I do mean every time) he has to come inside or leave a friend's house the waterworks start.

I understand that not all of this can be explained away, but rest assured, kids in general can be infuriating and a pain in the ass. In fact, perhaps we need a whole seperate thread for that.

Best of luck.

[Barkeep49]

Craig: Thanks for the update. Just so you know, you and your son have pretty extensive legal rights. Has he been formally recognized yet by the district? If not you need to get that ball rolling so he can get an IEP and get the assitance he needs to be successful in school. Again as someone who has seen these kids get older, there is a lot of room for improvement, and it can happen. I just wish you (and his teachers) the best of luck along the way.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Craig - as a very recent parent of a 1st-grader (we survived 1st, now in 2nd), let me assure you that the sight of "very unhappy child" isn't one that's unknown around here either.

While I'm sure that your situation has plenty of extraordinary challenges specific to the situation, I just wanted to mention that there's also a variety of very common issues that can influence happiness (and ultimately both their attitude about going to school as well as their behavior/performance once they're there).

Absent any of the issues you've mentioned in this thread, my experience says that it doesn't take a lot to send a kid into a tailspin of sorts, with peer social dynamics leading the field of candidates for problems.

Crap, I think I probably just talked around that enough to make no sense -- what I'm trying to say is just that I hope you remember to examine all of the routine causes for upset in addition to the extra challenges you're facing. In my mind, it'd be awfully easy to overlook something simple since you've had to deal with so much that's complex.

Hope that makes sense, I wish you very well in your efforts.

[CraigSca]

Ugh. Every morning has been a struggle to get him to go to 1st grade. He cries hysterically and will either not walk to the front of the door or walk to the bus stop. Today, he locked himself in the bathroom (but did unlock the door after we asked him to). My wife is going to volunteer for the school, but she can only do so on days when my little girl is in preschool. However, for him this is a point of contention - he wants her to come in every day, which of course, she can't.

We found a website the other day that actually has a .wav file of a young boy with Asperger's talking to a therapist. It sounds EXACTLY like our son - the wording, cadence and even what he talks about - how EVERYTHING is boring and EVERYTHING is stupid (which we get about 16 hours a day now). This file blew our minds.

www.pediatricneurology.com/boy_with_aspergers.htm

Especially listen to the part where he blames his mother - and the anger he shows towards her.

[CraigSca]

dola

As an adjunct - even though he was crying on the way to the bus stop and we received the phone call about how last week was absolutely horrible, apparently he had a really good day at school and actually won a certificate for completing all his work. He was Mr. 500 foot long smiles when he came home, so we talked to the teacher and let her know what a great impression the certificate made on him. Apparently, he had a really great day. The transition from home to school is just killing him (and, unfortunately us through osmosis).

[CraigSca]

Got a call today from the principal. My son has been suspended for 3 days because he "assaulted" another child on the school bus and recess.

It goes from bad to worse...but that's okay because two urgent phone calls in the past two days to his therapist have gone unanswered.

Everything's great.

[Galaxy]

Sorry to here Craig.

Are the therapists highly specialized in dealing with these type of kids?

[Godzilla Blitz]

I'm sorry to hear that things are getting worse. You and your family are in my thoughts, Craig.

[CraigSca]

Thanks guys - I realize at this point people on this board have relatively nothing to say in response to my posts, but every little bit helps.

We're meeting tomorrow with his therapist's supervisor - apparently our therapist was on vacation again. I don't fault her for taking a break, but her voicemail should reflect the current situation (as well as a "contact in case of emergency" contingency).

We are, understandable, at our wits end. We think the diagnosis is Asperbergers, which is what our therapist believes. However, it is ultimately the psychiatrist's diagnosis to make, and we see him (again) on Thursday. We just need/want someone to help us...it's so easy to say "it takes a village" but ultimately you are on your own.

btw - his "assault" today was him (as usual) taking a role playing game to the extreme. He just HAS to get to the point where he can control his impulses and have the ability to take a step back and say, "I'm about to go too far." He just doesn't get it, even after 6 1/2 years.

Anyone else have a child that has been suspended from kindergarden AND 1st grade (tongue firmly...but sadly, in cheek)?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Thanks guys - I realize at this point people on this board have relatively nothing to say in response to my posts, but every little bit helps.

We're meeting tomorrow with his therapist's supervisor - apparently our therapist was on vacation again. I don't fault her for taking a break, but her voicemail should reflect the current situation (as well as a "contact in case of emergency" contingency).

We are, understandable, at our wits end. We think the diagnosis is Asperbergers, which is what our therapist believes. However, it is ultimately the psychiatrist's diagnosis to make, and we see him (again) on Thursday. We just need/want someone to help us...it's so easy to say "it takes a village" but ultimately you are on your own.

btw - his "assault" today was him (as usual) taking a role playing game to the extreme. He just HAS to get to the point where he can control his impulses and have the ability to take a step back and say, "I'm about to go too far." He just doesn't get it, even after 6 1/2 years.

Anyone else have a child that has been suspended from kindergarden AND 1st grade (tongue firmly...but sadly, in cheek)?

All I can say is that I've worked with kids who have autism and aspergers, and my heart always goes out to the parents of these children as I realize there is only so much that I can do to help them and that is very hard for these parents who clearly have significantly more challenges than parents of "normal" children. Your family will continue to be in my prayers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wish there was something I could say that would lighten the load, even just for a minute, but the truth is I'm way out of my league here. You're right in the middle of it & I sense how overwhelming it must all be, I'm waaaaaaaay out here on the fringe & I'm overwhelmed by it. All I can offer are my most sincere hopes & prayers for things to get better for you all, and you certainly have those.

[Chubby]

craig - it sounds to me like he just wants/likes attention. bad behavior generates lot of attention and it sounds like good behavior generates little attention (a welcome break for you which is understandable). Not saying there may not be something else more major going on but just an observation.

does your son take an interest in anything like keeping score while playing a game?

[Galaxy]

What causes autism and Asperbergers? Is it a chemical inbalance, something genetic?

[CraigSca]

Again.... THANK YOU ALL! My wife takes it harder than me - she takes it very personally. It's easier for her to remember that it's really just not his fault...he sees the world through eyes that are (I hate to say it) distorted, and we both feel bad for him. My #1 concern is that he NEEDS to be able to assimilate himself into the world...and when someone slights him, to not impulsively strike back with a fervor beyond what is necessary. For whatever reason...it seems that piece is not functional in his brain.

My wife had a conversation with him tonight at bed time...where he was talking about his "friends" at school...and how he wants to be good. Mind you - these are the same kids he hurt...he really has no idea how to be a friend. He's kinda lost (as are we).

There's a huge part of me that says, "Why me? Why us? We're good people - we don't deserve this." Then, I think, he doesn't deserve this either - and this is not about you. Couples who have kids like this (obviously) find it very stressful and I am the luckiest man alive to have the wife that I have. We've maintained our relationship through all the garbage and crap and the day-to-day stress (which is non-ending). This will, no doubt about it, be the longest-running thread in FOFC history - as this will be ongoing.

Chubby - yes - he does take an interest in keeping score - in soccer on Saturday his team won, 13-2 (we heard about it all day - ha!). He scored 2 goals and was the proudest little goofball in the world .

If people take ANYTHING from this thread, it is this: When you see a kid acting up and misbehaving in front of their parents - it MAY NOT be their parenting. We have an absolute DARLING 4 year old girl who is...she heals us each day by being the way she is. If you see a child being an a$$ - don't judge the parents....understand the hell they are going through. All through my life I always thought, when seeing kids act up in the mall, I would say to myself, "I will NEVER EVER let my kid get away with that." Just understand...sometimes...you're dealt the hand you're dealt...the parents can hopefully mold that child - but sometimes the child is what he is.

Next time you see a kid act up in a public place - just say to the parent "it's ok". They'll think it's not...and they'll know it's not - because it isn't. But there's just, sometimes, not a damn thing you can do.

My apologies for the rant...or whatever this is. Life just sucks right now.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

What causes autism and Asperbergers? Is it a chemical inbalance, something genetic?

No one knows. For awhile there was word that it has to do with the innoculations that today's children are required by their pediatrician to take. However, the fact is - autism and its traits usually become apparent to the parent by age 2 or 3...when innoculations take place, so it's thought that the vaccinations and autism are just coincidence.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so I don't necessarily believe vaccines are at fault here.

The other theory is - back in the day - kids like this just used to get beaten until they whipped into shape. Which is unfortunate...it's not unlike asking the blind to look at the eye chart and "just tell me what the hell you see, damn it."

[CraigSca]

This is for Barkeep - we're going to ask for an IEP at the school. The problem is, we have no OFFICIAL diagnosis - though we know what WE believe and we're working with the therapists on that. Our concern is - without an official diagnosis, what "ammunitiion" to we really have besides our son being a troublemaker who can't keep his hands to himself?

Our other question for the guidance counselor, principal, etc., is - "What will happen when this occurs (his "assault") again?" We know it will...it's just a matter of time if he does not have the supervision that he requires.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

What causes autism and Asperbergers? Is it a chemical inbalance, something genetic?

The answer to those questions is the very basis of an NIMH grant that I was starting to work on at LSU before the storm hit. The answer is we don't know, but there are MANY theories including thimerosal in vaccinations (which I don't believe), genetic abnormalities, perinatal insults (such as viruses), high level of toxins in seafood, power plant lines being close, nuclear power plants being close etc. Basically, we have many theories but no hard core evidence yet. However, the circumstantial evidence is very strong that thiomersal in the vaccinations is NOT a cause. Some parents choose not to vaccinate kids because of that belief, and I personally think that is a VERY bad choice. I actually had a paper published in a small journal in which I did a literature review of 17 articles adressing the issue of vaccinations causing autism and most of the research does not support vaccinations as a cause.

However, I don't want to threadjack.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Again.... THANK YOU ALL! My wife takes it harder than me - she takes it very personally. It's easier for her to remember that it's really just not his fault...he sees the world through eyes that are (I hate to say it) distorted, and we both feel bad for him. My #1 concern is that he NEEDS to be able to assimilate himself into the world...and when someone slights him, to not impulsively strike back with a fervor beyond what is necessary. For whatever reason...it seems that piece is not functional in his brain.

My wife had a conversation with him tonight at bed time...where he was talking about his "friends" at school...and how he wants to be good. Mind you - these are the same kids he hurt...he really has no idea how to be a friend. He's kinda lost (as are we).

There's a huge part of me that says, "Why me? Why us? We're good people - we don't deserve this." Then, I think, he doesn't deserve this either - and this is not about you. Couples who have kids like this (obviously) find it very stressful and I am the luckiest man alive to have the wife that I have. We've maintained our relationship through all the garbage and crap and the day-to-day stress (which is non-ending). This will, no doubt about it, be the longest-running thread in FOFC history - as this will be ongoing.

Chubby - yes - he does take an interest in keeping score - in soccer on Saturday his team won, 13-2 (we heard about it all day - ha!). He scored 2 goals and was the proudest little goofball in the world .

If people take ANYTHING from this thread, it is this: When you see a kid acting up and misbehaving in front of their parents - it MAY NOT be their parenting. We have an absolute DARLING 4 year old girl who is...she heals us each day by being the way she is. If you see a child being an a$$ - don't judge the parents....understand the hell they are going through. All through my life I always thought, when seeing kids act up in the mall, I would say to myself, "I will NEVER EVER let my kid get away with that." Just understand...sometimes...you're dealt the hand you're dealt...the parents can hopefully mold that child - but sometimes the child is what he is.

Next time you see a kid act up in a public place - just say to the parent "it's ok". They'll think it's not...and they'll know it's not - because it isn't. But there's just, sometimes, not a damn thing you can do.

My apologies for the rant...or whatever this is. Life just sucks right now.

Sounds like your wife and you are sticking together, as one. I think that's very good to hear. It will benefit not just your son in towards helping him, but also your relationship between the two of you.

I can understand what you mean about the "Why us?" thoughts. I ask that often of myself (my problems are with a rare physical syndrome-so it may not be the same thing), but you have to deal with the cards you are given, and do the best you can.

[CraigSca]

Eagles - FWIW - both our kids are fully immunized. As I'm sure you'll read from my previous post - it's our thinking that Thimerasol is a load of hooey.

It's probably one of this biggest mysteries of this generation.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Eagles - FWIW - both our kids are fully immunized. As I'm sure you'll read from my previous post - it's our thinking that Thimerasol is a load of hooey.

It's probably one of this biggest mysteries of this generation.

It's also one of the biggest questions that parents have in my experience. Almost all of them ask what caused this as one of their first questions. I hope to play some small part in elucidating the answer to this mystery one day. Again, my heart really goes out to you, your wife, and the rest of your family.

[Anthony]

i feel for you. one thing i like about your posts is your ability to be brutally honest about your son. you know there's a problem with him and you don't gloss over his shortcomings. i think that might be what helps you through this - that you in fact acknowledge all isn't right with your boy, that you understand it's out of your hands how he acts and how he acts isn't a result of your parenting, and that for him to succeed he's going to need professional help. it must be hard to admit that he's the way he is, so even though i don't have a word of advice for you i admire you being straight forward and open. best of luck.

[CraigSca]

Thank Eagles...my wife always blames herself. She was incredible during pregnancy - wouldn't even take an aspirin when she had a headache. However, deep down, she has a tendency to believe he is the way he is because "we are the worst parents in the world." On another level, she knows we're not (and I am damn well sure we actually kick butt at parenting - again, our little girl has shown us this) - again, you're dealt a genetic hand and you can only hope to mold that person as best you can.

I wish you the best of luck in finding out why autism occurs - if/when you find the answer, generations to come will FOREVER be in your debt.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Thank Eagles...my wife always blames herself. She was incredible during pregnancy - wouldn't even take an aspirin when she had a headache. However, deep down, she has a tendency to believe he is the way he is because "we are the worst parents in the world." On another level, she knows we're not (and I am damn well sure we actually kick butt at parenting - again, our little girl has shown us this) - again, you're dealt a genetic hand and you can only hope to mold that person as best you can.

I wish you the best of luck in finding out why autism occurs - if/when you find the answer, generations to come will FOREVER be in your debt.

Your wife's reaction is common, and I hope you can keep focusing her on the fact that science doesn't know what causes Autism or Aspergers, and it is not her fault. However, that feeling of fault is a very common reaction (and one that can be heartbreaking at times.)

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i feel for you. one thing i like about your posts is your ability to be brutally honest about your son. you know there's a problem with him and you don't gloss over his shortcomings. i think that might be what helps you through this - that you in fact acknowledge all isn't right with your boy, that you understand it's out of your hands how he acts and how he acts isn't a result of your parenting, and that for him to succeed he's going to need professional help. it must be hard to admit that he's the way he is, so even though i don't have a word of advice for you i admire you being straight forward and open. best of luck.

Thanks HA - from reading your posts, I know you are brutally honest , but you call it as you see it. You're right...I do acknowledge he has problems - we saw them when he was only a month old.

Really, during today's meeting with the guidance counselor, principal, "interventionist"...they said it was painful to watch him in class because you could see he was trying to "be good" and that we need to work together to help him. I hate to be flippant, but I told them "after 6 1/2 years, if you have a suggestion, please tell me" because we have tried everything under the sun. Yes - he has issues and yes, it's truly sad he (for lack of a better phrase) doesn't have a clue. But, it's our job as parents to prepare him to assimilate into society and it's just not happening at this point.

About feeling alone...I know my parents (and her parents) don't get this...but it would be SUCH a help if one of them stepped up and said to my WONDERFUL, GIVING, INTELLIGENT, BEAUTIFUL wife, "you know what? We'll take the kids out today, you deserve a break." ESPECIALLY considering the child we have and the way he is what he is. I know that's not really the way my parents are - we're kind of...you deal with your business kind of people. My wife, however, is just waiting for her Mom or Dad to step up and help out in this way...but they've never volunteered. Part of me says it's not fair to them - they have no clue. But...my wife talks to her parents a lot more than my parents...and she is just waiting....waiting to hear "how can we help?" form her parents and it never happens. I know how it is - you just want to deal with your own garbage (and I wish my parents could see the forest through the trees sometimes) but it would be nice if people understood that you're not a jackass and that you're hurting and that there are easy ways to help.

wow....this went a direction I didn't intend. People are people...if they don't extend themselves to you, it's not their fault - they are what they are.

[CraigSca]

But anyway...to add a little levity to this morbid situation...a guy walks into a bar. Forgot to duck. bah-duh-bump.

Thank you, thank you very much.

I just wanted to thank the makers of Family Guy and Arrested Development for making me (us) laugh tonight. It was a welcome change.

[Galaxy]

Can always count on Peter for a laugh.

[Anthony]

yeah, i was gonna say it wouldn't be such a bad idea to perhaps have a nice nite out with your wife. it all starts with the marriage - the positivity from that trickles down into every aspect of your life. have a bad marriage and your attitude will suffer at work which brings its own probs. a bad marriage can be hard on the kids (speaking from experience, i was raised by a single mother and saw my father do some not-nice things to her before he left when i was 7). so if i were to give advice (i assume i'm younger than you and thus probably don't have anything to say that you didn't figure out already) i would say make sure you don't lose focus on your marriage. i assume things are great between the two of you to have succeeded thus far, be thankful for that. i guess my point is, yes, your son is special, but that doesn't mean your entire family's existence has to be about his challenges. just remember to take people up on their offers to look after the kids so you guys can have a nite out/break (eventually the offers will come, i presume). you guys gotta recharge your batteries at some point.

[Barkeep49]

Craig: You don't need any ammunition to have a kid tested. Even if the school doesn't recommend testing, you can still demand it; as a teacher I know we would sometimes try to encourage parents not to have their kid tested as we believed it to be a waste of everyone's time. However, the law is very explicit about these things and so if you insist on it they have to do it. However, if you have your outside consultation it makes it harder, though not impossible, for them to deny him services. At the minimum if you wait until your psycologist comes back they'll most likely not give you any flack about testing. A kid getting suspended repeatedly in K and 1st grade is not normal and so with-out knowing anything about your school district I'd be cautiously optomistic that they'd be willing to do these things. If you have other questions about this, I am not an expert, but having had an IEP and having been a teacher I am a very knowledgeable non-expert, and so I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Echoing some of Barkeep's thoughts, your son's behavior definitely does not sound normal to me. Although every child in the world will exhibit similar behavior as your son on occasion, both the frequency and the strength of your son's behavior seem to me to point at something being off.

As an aside, I see similar confusion a lot with ADD and ADHD cases in schools. If you read the behavioral symptoms for ADD/ADHD, almost everyone exhibits them. It is often the severity and frequency of the behavior that dictate a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD.

I'd also argue that the contrasting "good" behavior you see from your daughter supports the "something is wrong with our son" viewpoint. Although one could argue that you are different parents to your son and daughter, it seems unlikely to me that you parenting has been so different to your two children as to cause such stark differences in your children's behavior.

Not quite sure to what degree children with Asperger's and mild autism are handled/treated the same way, but if they are similar and if your son does have Asperger's disorder...

Raising and working with children with autism seems to me to be a "many small steps can get us to where we want to be" kind of journey. Things are extremely hard for you right now and the journey ahead will likely have incredible setbacks. However, with effective behavioral interventions, tremendous effort, and a consistently positive approach, I think you will be able to get to a point a few years down the road where things are much much better than they are right now. I have seen amazing things done with autistic kids, and if I'm not mistaken, the outlook for kids with Asperger's is generally much more optimistic.

[Chubby]

craig - do you think your son is challenged in school? does he have trouble with his work (tho I kind of forget what exactly passes for work these days in 1st grade )? This could have been stuff brought up in his evaluations idk.

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by Chubby

craig - do you think your son is challenged in school? does he have trouble with his work (tho I kind of forget what exactly passes for work these days in 1st grade )? This could have been stuff brought up in his evaluations idk.

Actually, in most cases (not sure about this one, because the only thing I know about Craig's child is what I read here), Asperger's children are extremely bright and pedantic, often bored with work that would be viewed as "age appropriate".

That's one of the reasons the specialists at my son's school wanted to tag him with Aspergers.

However, that being said - it doesn't preclude the suggestion that he might be stuggling with the work.


Craig,

Have you tried working with him at home to see if you son is interested in more difficult subjects?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Breeze

Actually, in most cases (not sure about this one, because the only thing I know about Craig's child is what I read here), Asperger's children are extremely bright and pedantic, often bored with work that would be viewed as "age appropriate".

That's one of the reasons the specialists at my son's school wanted to tag him with Aspergers.

However, that being said - it doesn't preclude the suggestion that he might be stuggling with the work.

well I was actually thinking that he was bored with school because it's too easy for him. I hope his son gets properly diagnosed, that's the bottom line with me. There's nothing worse than thinking someone has one thing when it's really the opposite or nothing at all. We're not there so it's hard to be able to tell about the severity and the fact that his daughter is quiet probably amplifies his son's behavior to him IMO.

[CraigSca]

Well...it's odd but you sometimes led to believe that you're making a mistake by being a good parent. We read to both our kids every day, and we encourage them to learn, play, etc. on their own. Through osmosis they've learned a lot of things. Now, when they go to school, my 4 year old girl is expected to learn the different parts of her body, what the letter "A" looks like, and that buttercups are yellow. We collectively roll our eyes as we know this will bore her, but we look forward to the social learning she'll get by interacting with other children. However, it amazes me what little they expect of incoming preschoolers and kindgergardners.

Same thing with my son - he KNOWS the material, but has no interest in doing anything that's labeled "work". He actually was taking a reading test to get a baseline IQ - the words he was to read were in columns. After flying through column 1, he refused to read column 2 because it was "stupid" and "boring". We know he's bright, his teacher says he's bright - he just doesn't want to do work. I'm not really sure if the work needs to be more challenging...he only wants to focus on what HE wants to focus on - otherwise it's not fun and thus "stupid and boring".

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Well...it's odd but you sometimes led to believe that you're making a mistake by being a good parent. We read to both our kids every day, and we encourage them to learn, play, etc. on their own. Through osmosis they've learned a lot of things. Now, when they go to school, my 4 year old girl is expected to learn the different parts of her body, what the letter "A" looks like, and that buttercups are yellow. We collectively roll our eyes as we know this will bore her, but we look forward to the social learning she'll get by interacting with other children. However, it amazes me what little they expect of incoming preschoolers and kindgergardners.

Same thing with my son - he KNOWS the material, but has no interest in doing anything that's labeled "work". He actually was taking a reading test to get a baseline IQ - the words he was to read were in columns. After flying through column 1, he refused to read column 2 because it was "stupid" and "boring". We know he's bright, his teacher says he's bright - he just doesn't want to do work. I'm not really sure if the work needs to be more challenging...he only wants to focus on what HE wants to focus on - otherwise it's not fun and thus "stupid and boring".

Craig,

One thing I just thought of, my son used to do some of the same things you're referring to with regards to work. He would rip through some things, then all of sudden stop and say he didn't want to do it. We've found out that one of the reasons for that is that he's a bit of a perfectionist. He doesn't want to make a mistake in front of anyone - so rather than risk getting an answer wrong, he simply choses not to answer at all. We've worked with him on understanding that making mistakes is how we learn and get smarter and it has helped tremendously. Might want to investigate it - can't hurt.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

The answer to those questions is the very basis of an NIMH grant that I was starting to work on at LSU before the storm hit.

Uhhh...part of your research didn't invlove giving rats injections, did it?!?!?






Sorry, just trying to inject a little levity into this thread...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Uhhh...part of your research didn't invlove giving rats injections, did it?!?!?






Sorry, just trying to inject a little levity into this thread...

psst. Jeeber, thats NIHM.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

psst. Jeeber, thats NIHM.

Son of a BITCH!

Well, the lesson is the same. Dont go injecting stuf into rats to make them super smart, EF27...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Son of a BITCH!

Well, the lesson is the same. Dont go injecting stuf into rats to make them super smart, EF27...

DOH! You were right and I was wrong (just went and looked it up)