12 years ago, Kurt Cobain had a pretty bad headache...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Green Day was another band that "crossed over" and I don't hear many bands cite them as influential.

Green Day fucking ROCKS!!

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Nirvana were more important for what they achived than their music. Their songs were good, but they, for whatever reason, managed to get alternative rock played on mainstream radio and on MTV. Remember, even MTV in the late 80s was not an alternative outlet as it is now, they played the same hair-rock and cheese-pop that commercial radio in the US was playing at the time. Nirvana changed that and kickstarted a movement that got bands that previously would've otherwise toiled for years playing small venues and releasing under-the-radar EPs, out into the mainstream arena. Regardless of whether theur music was masterful or not (I am of the opinion that they were solid but not spectacular) that is why Kobain was so important and why I agree with HA that Nevermind is one of the 10 most important rock albums ever.

Gotta agree with almost everything in this post.

Nirvana was a solid band whose subsequent reputation for being geniuses rests largely on the pseudo-romantic tortured-artist suicide of Cobain.

They were very much in the right place at the right time, though, playing alternative music that was just melodic enough to make it on the radio and on MTV, and expressing an angst that fit perfectly with 1990-1992.

Their main significance was in opening doors for other bands that sold far fewer records, but that would ultimately be more influential on other musicians (Pavement and Sebadoh come to mind.)

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Green Day fucking ROCKS!!

They may rock, but it would be hard to deny, I think, that they are very derivative: take the Clash, add more melody and some pop hooks, retain just enough of a sneer for some punk credibility, and you've got Green Day.

Kurt Cobain would have hated Green Day.

[Front Office Midget]

Meh, I was only born in 1988, so I wasn't around for all this crap. BUT, I own Bleach, Nevermind, Insesticide, In Utero, and Unplugged, and love them all very much.

So chalk up whatever part of their success to his suicide or being at the right place at the right time, but I just listen to and enjoy their music, and I didn't start listening to them until about 8 years after he killed himself, and I don't even realize he killed himself when I listen to their music. I just like their music.

And Green Day is in my top 5 favorite bands.

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

dola, The Clash - now they were amazing. Before my time - but wow.

exactly

Cobain sure as hell was no Joe Strummer. Not even close. That is all.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You people take music very seriously.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

You people take music very seriously.

Except those touting Green Day.

[Groundhog]

I've never much liked Nirvana or had any urge to give them a try, though I do like their Unplugged CD for whatever reason. I did always like Pearl Jam though, because I think Pearl Jam did a similar thing to Nirvana but they did it much better and with a LOT more variety.

Having said that, there is no way you can say that Nirvana weren't important in terms of what they did for their style of music, but in 100 years time I don't think they will register as much more than a curious blip on the music time chart from this period - right up there with every other group that introduces the next music-fad.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Except those touting Green Day.

That is the funniest, most accurate statement I think I've ever seen from you in like five years.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

exactly

Cobain sure as hell was no Joe Strummer. Not even close. That is all.

you know, there's a great line about the Clash - people weren't kidding when they called them the "only band that mattered."

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

That is the funniest, most accurate statement I think I've ever seen from you in like five years.

You are a very hard man to please. Hopefully it won't take another 5 years.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

Sex Pistols don't have a spot either, unless it's the Suck Donkey Balls Hall of Fame.

ok, you've now discredited yourself in this music debate. no worries, it's just one less thread you have to post in.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

ok, you've now discredited yourself in this music debate. no worries, it's just one less thread you have to post in.

You still here?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Nirvana changed that and kickstarted a movement that got bands that previously would've otherwise toiled for years playing small venues and releasing under-the-radar EPs,

otherwise known as bands that cthomer likes.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

otherwise known as bands that cthomer likes.

Not half bad, actually.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

ok, you've now discredited yourself in this music debate. no worries, it's just one less thread you have to post in.

Sex Pistols are a pretty touchy subject among people who are serious about music (more serious than you, Mr. Coldplay). They were essentially assembled like boy band, by a marketing guy, and literally told to impersonate NY punk rock. For example, they were literally told to write their own version of the song "Blank Generation" by Richard Hell and the Voidoids. The result is "Pretty Vacant."

I think they were good, but were far more hype than substance. And again, add in drug use and a guy killing his girlfriend and then OD'ing and you've got a recipe for immortality.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

otherwise known as bands that cthomer likes.

Yeah, i intenionally listen to bands that suck. Not because they're good. I simply love to rattle off names people like you aren't familiar with. I have no interest in listening to the best music I can find.

[Wolfpack]

I just had a sudden realization and that's that Kurt and Courtney's kid is about or already might be a teenager. Damn, I'm getting old.... (I do wonder how well she's been brought up...Courtney's been crap for a mother, I'm sure.)

[Anthony]

there is nothing wrong with listening to music that's from off the beaten path. this isn't a popularity contest. i'm just saying you can't tell me the music you listen to has that much worth or value or contribution to music when no one has heard of any of the groups you listen to. you rattle off the same groups that other music snobs/geeks listen to. i've told you this already. if they had anything to bring to the table they wouldn't be underground. not that being on magazine covers and winning awards are a validation of an artist's worth, just that Elvis couldn't be the King Of Rock if only sophisticated music snobs listened to him. acts like Elvis, albums like Nevermind - they are what they are because they struck the same chord in millions of people. they reached people.

people not in music will never know just how hard it is to write one hit song. just one. to make one song that millions identify with and like is extremely hard (outside of gimmick songs like "Macarena"). to make an entire album that millions connected with - that just doesn't happen all the time. that's something unique and special. not everyone has the ability to make a "Nevermind".

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

there is nothing wrong with listening to music that's from off the beaten path. this isn't a popularity contest. i'm just saying you can't tell me the music you listen to has that much worth or value or contribution to music when no one has heard of any of the groups you listen to. you rattle off the same groups that other music snobs/geeks listen to. i've told you this already. if they had anything to bring to the table they wouldn't be underground. not that being on magazine covers and winning awards are a validation of an artist's worth, just that Elvis couldn't be the King Of Rock if only sophisticated music snobs listened to him. acts like Elvis, albums like Nevermind - they are what they are because they struck the same chord in millions of people. they reached people.

people not in music will never know just how hard it is to write one hit song. just one. to make one song that millions identify with and like is extremely hard (outside of gimmick songs like "Macarena"). to make an entire album that millions connected with - that just doesn't happen all the time. that's something unique and special. not everyone has the ability to make a "Nevermind".

This is patently untrue. Although it is somewhat changing due to the internet, 95% of what 95% of people listen to is what A&R men think will sell. Note, not what they think is good, but what they think will sell. That essentially means they have to appeal lowest common denominator. Of course, plenty of talented groups are popular and yes, the majority of unsigned bands and groups on small indie labels are crap and will never amount to anything artistically, but that doesn't mean popularity = talent and certainly doesn't mean no popularity = no talent.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

if they had anything to bring to the average joe radio-listener they wouldn't be underground

Most art isn't for mass consumption, period. And "they reached people?"

The bands I like are reaching me and tens of thousands of others. Are the reaching the 12 year old kick wacking off to MTV? No, probably not. But they are most certainly reaching people.

[Groundhog]

What bands like Nirvana did that make them so popular is that they take a music form that was underground and the add the neccessary touches to it that make it accessable to everybody else. Nirvana in no way shape or form created their style of music. Neither did the Sex Pistols. Neither did Pink Floyd. Neither did Radiohead. All they did was present it in a way that attracted people to it.

It reminds me of a quote by some musician I read once (can't recall who). He said, when talking about guys in their basements creating strange sounds on synthesizers, something along the lines of "It's nice to know that someone is doing it, but I don't neccessarily want to hear it". These innovators begin to forge some kind of sound, it goes around the underground scene, and then someone finally refines it enough to make it global... usually by accident.

[st.cronin]

bom bom diggy

[Qwikshot]

I think we should go back to our ROOTS...Nirvana was for suckers dude...I've been into Peter Cetera Chicago and it's kicking like gangbusters...

But when I really want to get down and crazy, I pull out Air Supply

You ain't got nothing on me.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

ok, you've now discredited yourself in this music debate. no worries, it's just one less thread you have to post in.

whew. that's a huge relief.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I just had a sudden realization and that's that Kurt and Courtney's kid is about or already might be a teenager. Damn, I'm getting old.... (I do wonder how well she's been brought up...Courtney's been crap for a mother, I'm sure.)

I was thinking about this the other day myself, I think she's like 13 now. I can't imagine having a more messed up upbringing than what she has likely gone through. I hate to think of the media prying into the life of a 13 year old, but the curious part of me would be really interested to see an interview or documentary on her some day.

[ISiddiqui]

Hey, I really like Nirvana and think they've made some great music, but come on, Cobain is SERIOUSLY overrated because he blew his brains out. The Pearl Jam comparisons are very apt. Pearl Jam and Nirvana were neck and neck for the grunge crown back in the early 90s. Cobain and Nirvana got elevated to God-like status because of the suicide. If Vedder had killed himself, people would talk about the genius of Pearl Jam today, while Nirvana would have likely followed the same career path that Pearl Jam followed. Nirvana arrived at the right time and Cobain killed himself at the right time to achieve immortality.

But yeah, totally overrated. Cobain ain't John Lennon, no matter how much people want to place him on a similar pedestal.

[GreenMonster]

Imagine there's no Nirvana
It's easy if you try

[Qwikshot]

Gavin Rossdale wouldn't be banging Gwen Stefani...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I was thinking about this the other day myself, I think she's like 13 now. I can't imagine having a more messed up upbringing than what she has likely gone through. I hate to think of the media prying into the life of a 13 year old, but the curious part of me would be really interested to see an interview or documentary on her some day.

I pity the kid. With a looney as a mom and a coward as a dad. Yeesh.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Hey, I really like Nirvana and think they've made some great music, but come on, Cobain is SERIOUSLY overrated because he blew his brains out. The Pearl Jam comparisons are very apt. Pearl Jam and Nirvana were neck and neck for the grunge crown back in the early 90s. Cobain and Nirvana got elevated to God-like status because of the suicide. If Vedder had killed himself, people would talk about the genius of Pearl Jam today, while Nirvana would have likely followed the same career path that Pearl Jam followed. Nirvana arrived at the right time and Cobain killed himself at the right time to achieve immortality.

But yeah, totally overrated. Cobain ain't John Lennon, no matter how much people want to place him on a similar pedestal.

This is basically my stance as well.

[AlexB]

Personally thought Pearl Jam were completely overrated - grunge for the middle classes sitting in front of their fireplaces in patterned cardigans.

I agree Pearl Jam was the most overrated group i can remember. I don't think people realize how many bands were influenced by Nirvana and that alone makes them a great all time band. By the way I love The Strokes!!!!!!

[stevew]

Anyone seen that Van Sant movie "Last Days?" I know it isnt a Cobain biography or anything, but i think it was loosely based on his final days.

[Chubby]

People who don't think Nirvana was one of (if not THE) most influential bands of the Gen X generation are on crack.

I don't think they were the best band ever, or of the decade or whatever but for Cobain to accomplish what he did in the music scene while detesting the success he was receiving is amazing in and of itself.

[AZSpeechCoach]

In my opinion, the best thing that Nirvana ever did was be the influence for Weird Al's "Smells Like Nirvana." Of course, my wife says I have horrible music taste.

[timmae]

I watched Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck last night. I have been truly sad ever since. I love the music but never knew some of the background story. So horribly sad what he went through.