Steve McNair has been shot and killed

[jeff061]

It's clear the moral police are out in full force, painting negatives so they can view themselves in a better light.

But go wild. Doesn't really bother me at all.

[BYU 14]

Steve McNair was by all accounts a good man, did a lot for the community, loved his kids, but was morally flawed when it came to being a faithful husband, so as Chief put it he was no saint.

Good people make mistakes and do bad things and even truly rotten people can slip up and do something good once in a while. In the end McNair was human, showed weakness in an area that affects many men. This is especially a huge pratfall of many celebrity types, since the opportunities are much more plentiful, they just rarely turn out anywhere close to this badly.

The unfortunate truth is that by most measures, anywhere between 35 to 50% of both men and women are or one time were as flawed as Steve McNair and it is wrong to profess your loyality to somebody and then cheat.

This indescretion (if early reports are true) just turned out to be a very poor decision and it has nothing to do with age or anything else. If the woman did do this, then she had stablity issues and McNair obviously discovered this in the worst way possible. It is unfortunate for him, but devastating to the family he left behind, as well as the family of the girl.

[RedKingGold]

Let he without sin smoke the first blunt.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Which one? The manufactured one (he's a good guy) or the real one (he cheats on his wife)?

Can't both be true? As I've argued before, much to my detriment, a person is a jumble of contradictions. Nobody is 100% good or bad, but we want to break things down so that they are easy to categorize. The guy that gets a DUI has no character, the women that locked her child in the car is a terrible person, or now McNair is a bad guy.

If I've learned one thing as a Christian it's that we're all flawed, some more than others, but all of us are in the same boat. I didn't know McNair, but from what I've read it seems he was both a good guy and a bad guy depending on the circumstances. My sins are different, but if I'm honest with myself i'm no better or less flawed than him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My sins are different, but if I'm honest with myself i'm no better or less flawed than him.

But you're not being promoted for some sort of sainthood because we died in what appears to be a circumstance of our own making.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But you're not being promoted for some sort of sainthood because we died in what appears to be a circumstance of our own making.

I guess I haven't seen that sort of praise, but I'd agree he should be treated as the flawed individual he was. I would like to see more people get away from the good guy/bad guy judgment scale.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I guess I haven't seen that sort of praise, but I'd agree he should be treated as the flawed individual he was. I would like to see more people get away from the good guy/bad guy judgment scale.

Agreed. From Chiasson Remembered as a Leader On and Off the Ice :: WRAL.com:

Originally Posted by WRAL

"On behalf of our entire team and our families, we extend our deepest sympathies to Susan and the kids. Like all of us, Steve loved the game of hockey. He was a skilled player who took a youthful approach to the game. He was a man of tremendous character and a loving father," says teammate Glen Wesley.

This was talking about Steve Chiasson, who refused a taxi or a ride home, drove drunk (0.27, three times the 0.8 limit), and luckily only killed himself. The one good quote from the article:

Originally Posted by WRAL

"The message is still clear and concise and brought into focus with this incident: put on a seatbelt, don't drink and drive and slow down," says Sgt. Jeff Winstead of the Highway Patrol.

You get involved in a lot fewer crimes of passion if you have a faithful marriage with the mother of your four children. I know there are lots of unfaithful folks out there, I just don't get it, and it shows a lot to me about the character of a person that they'd cheat on the one person in the world they should be MOST faithful and honest with. But all the talk about how great a guy he was doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Agreed. From Chiasson Remembered as a Leader On and Off the Ice :: WRAL.com:



This was talking about Steve Chiasson, who refused a taxi or a ride home, drove drunk (0.27, three times the 0.8 limit), and luckily only killed himself. The one good quote from the article:



You get involved in a lot fewer crimes of passion if you have a faithful marriage with the mother of your four children. I know there are lots of unfaithful folks out there, I just don't get it, and it shows a lot to me about the character of a person that they'd cheat on the one person in the world they should be MOST faithful and honest with. But all the talk about how great a guy he was doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that.

It does alarm me how I get the vibe that from some, cheating = meh on the scale. To me, other than killing/torturing/abusing/etc someone, it's the most devestating thing you can do to another person.

[stevew]

I have a feeling they had an open relationship of sorts, so I'm not so sure he was just creepin around on his wife. She almost had to know, and was either okay with it, or chose to ignore it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Agreed. From Chiasson Remembered as a Leader On and Off the Ice :: WRAL.com:



This was talking about Steve Chiasson, who refused a taxi or a ride home, drove drunk (0.27, three times the 0.8 limit), and luckily only killed himself. The one good quote from the article:



You get involved in a lot fewer crimes of passion if you have a faithful marriage with the mother of your four children. I know there are lots of unfaithful folks out there, I just don't get it, and it shows a lot to me about the character of a person that they'd cheat on the one person in the world they should be MOST faithful and honest with. But all the talk about how great a guy he was doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that.

[Drake]

I've been thinking about Steve McNair all weekend with largely mixed feelings. I was not particularly a fan of his, though I did enjoy watching him on the field. I've been thinking a great deal about his kids and his wife and what they must be going through.

I've also spent a great deal of time thinking about my own life. My wife is bipolar. Nearly three years ago, I uncovered that she had been having an affair with my best friend for at least two years. Somehow, I've managed to hold my marriage together for the sake of my kids, but I won't lie to you: it's been the hardest thing I've ever done. There isn't a day that's gone by that I haven't had to deal with her affair. In many ways, it destroyed my life. It destroyed my soul. At the worst of it, I sat in my living room in the middle of the night with a shotgun in my mouth wishing for the courage to end it all.

Affairs are not foibles. They are not human flaws. They are the deliberate destruction of another human being. I rank the selfishness necessary to have an affair up there with child molestation and murder on the scale of evil.

With that context, you need to understand that my first reaction to this story was that McNair got what he deserved. You willingly put enough misery out there in the universe and you deserve what you get.

But that isn't what his family deserved, and I grieve for them.

But here's where I have to tell the rest of the story. I married my first wife when I was 19. We had a son. We were married for two years before I cheated on her and left her for another woman (not coincidentally, my current wife). It destroyed my ex-wife for a good five years, and my oldest son bore the brunt of my selfishness and our broken home.

I tell you that to acknowledge that I am not innocent. The old adage that "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you" is the penance I've had to pay. Not as karma. Not even as "what goes around comes around". Just a logical consequence of being a broken, selfish, fucked up person associating with others exactly like me.

I thought I had put all of that behind me, come to terms with it, done my penance and my therapy and emerged a whole and better person when I uncovered my wife's affair. It was completely different being the victim. You truly don't understand anyone else's pain until you've walked in those shoes.

I belong to a support group for people with unfaithful spouses. People there describe it as the worst pain in their entire lives. Worse than the death of their parents. Worse than the deaths of their children. Worse than the death of a spouse. That's actually a common refrain after discovering your spouse has cheated: wishing that they'd just died instead, because at least then you didn't have all the lies, deceit and betrayal from it.

So from where I stand, I can't make light of infidelity. I can't say it was just a minor flaw in an otherwise good person. I spent a long time believing that it made my wife *evil*, because that was how I felt about myself for a long time after my own affair...all the years I spent trying to turn myself into an honorable man after the grave sins I'd committed.

But that isn't true, either. Being unfaithful doesn't make a man evil or a monster. The damage it does is incalculable, true, but it's damage borne of being stupid, broken and selfish.

Does the hope that McNair might one day have come to a moment of clarity and redeemed himself, reconciled his marriage and given himself over to doing whatever it took to heal himself and his wife mean that he didn't deserve what he got?

I don't know. I don't know what lesson to take out of it. My feelings are mixed, my heart hurts, and I feel like I'm groaning from somewhere deep inside the broken pieces of my soul. It's a tragedy. That's it. Just a stupid, meaningless, hopeless, unnecessary tragedy.

So tonight, like last night, I'll pray for his children and his wife and hope that they find peace in the storm. That's all I can do.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Drake

I've been thinking about Steve McNair all weekend with largely mixed feelings. I was not particularly a fan of his, though I did enjoy watching him on the field. I've been thinking a great deal about his kids and his wife and what they must be going through.

I've also spent a great deal of time thinking about my own life. My wife is bipolar. Nearly three years ago, I uncovered that she had been having an affair with my best friend for at least two years. Somehow, I've managed to hold my marriage together for the sake of my kids, but I won't lie to you: it's been the hardest thing I've ever done. There isn't a day that's gone by that I haven't had to deal with her affair. In many ways, it destroyed my life. It destroyed my soul. At the worst of it, I sat in my living room in the middle of the night with a shotgun in my mouth wishing for the courage to end it all.

Affairs are not foibles. They are not human flaws. They are the deliberate destruction of another human being. I rank the selfishness necessary to have an affair up there with child molestation and murder on the scale of evil.

With that context, you need to understand that my first reaction to this story was that McNair got what he deserved. You willingly put enough misery out there in the universe and you deserve what you get.

But that isn't what his family deserved, and I grieve for them.

But here's where I have to tell the rest of the story. I married my first wife when I was 19. We had a son. We were married for two years before I cheated on her and left her for another woman (not coincidentally, my current wife). It destroyed my ex-wife for a good five years, and my oldest son bore the brunt of my selfishness and our broken home.

I tell you that to acknowledge that I am not innocent. The old adage that "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you" is the penance I've had to pay. Not as karma. Not even as "what goes around comes around". Just a logical consequence of being a broken, selfish, fucked up person associating with others exactly like me.

I thought I had put all of that behind me, come to terms with it, done my penance and my therapy and emerged a whole and better person when I uncovered my wife's affair. It was completely different being the victim. You truly don't understand anyone else's pain until you've walked in those shoes.

I belong to a support group for people with unfaithful spouses. People there describe it as the worst pain in their entire lives. Worse than the death of their parents. Worse than the deaths of their children. Worse than the death of a spouse. That's actually a common refrain after discovering your spouse has cheated: wishing that they'd just died instead, because at least then you didn't have all the lies, deceit and betrayal from it.

So from where I stand, I can't make light of infidelity. I can't say it was just a minor flaw in an otherwise good person. I spent a long time believing that it made my wife *evil*, because that was how I felt about myself for a long time after my own affair...all the years I spent trying to turn myself into an honorable man after the grave sins I'd committed.

But that isn't true, either. Being unfaithful doesn't make a man evil or a monster. The damage it does is incalculable, true, but it's damage borne of being stupid, broken and selfish.

Does the hope that McNair might one day have come to a moment of clarity and redeemed himself, reconciled his marriage and given himself over to doing whatever it took to heal himself and his wife mean that he didn't deserve what he got?

I don't know. I don't know what lesson to take out of it. My feelings are mixed, my heart hurts, and I feel like I'm groaning from somewhere deep inside the broken pieces of my soul. It's a tragedy. That's it. Just a stupid, meaningless, hopeless, unnecessary tragedy.

So tonight, like last night, I'll pray for his children and his wife and hope that they find peace in the storm. That's all I can do.

you know you're an inspiring guy

[Noop]

McNair was a good dude. A lot of people cheat and still remain good people. Cheating does not make you evil it makes you human.

[jeff061]

Only thing I can say in response to Drake's post is we don't have all the information on McNair. We may never.

Other than that, great post. Which would be an understatement. Good luck my man.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Noop

McNair was a good dude. A lot of people cheat and still remain good people. Cheating does not make evil it makes you human.

Gonna call bullcrap on this.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by rowech

Gonna call bullcrap on this.

Make sure to call Obama as well.

[SportsDino]

Cheating means your human as much as being a human means your an animal. Sure the natural beastly state is to hump anything that moves, much as it is to kill anything that gets in the way of what you want.

Whatever your code may be, most judgments on the morality of individuals is based on what ways they have ascended from their base behavior... particularly those like murder or cheating which are associated with causing pain.

If you do not think cheating is a big deal try to imagine the most amazing woman ever being your girlfriend, and then sleeping with someone else and leaving you. Regardless of how cool you are with the idea of cheating, because that touches so many pressure points of jealousy, insecurity, or anger I think it would be very rare the person that would not be pissed off or saddened by that.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Noop

McNair was a good dude. A lot of people cheat and still remain good people. Cheating does not make you evil it makes you human.

And a lot of people don't cheat.

Being human is about making decisions. The decisions you make reflects who you are. If you aren't happy in your relationship, get out of it.

[Galaxy]

I'm waiting for the Ashley Madsion/JimmyWint joke.

[StLee]

Originally Posted by Drake

I've been thinking about Steve McNair all weekend with largely mixed feelings. I was not particularly a fan of his, though I did enjoy watching him on the field. I've been thinking a great deal about his kids and his wife and what they must be going through.

I've also spent a great deal of time thinking about my own life. My wife is bipolar. Nearly three years ago, I uncovered that she had been having an affair with my best friend for at least two years. Somehow, I've managed to hold my marriage together for the sake of my kids, but I won't lie to you: it's been the hardest thing I've ever done. There isn't a day that's gone by that I haven't had to deal with her affair. In many ways, it destroyed my life. It destroyed my soul. At the worst of it, I sat in my living room in the middle of the night with a shotgun in my mouth wishing for the courage to end it all.

Affairs are not foibles. They are not human flaws. They are the deliberate destruction of another human being. I rank the selfishness necessary to have an affair up there with child molestation and murder on the scale of evil.

With that context, you need to understand that my first reaction to this story was that McNair got what he deserved. You willingly put enough misery out there in the universe and you deserve what you get.

But that isn't what his family deserved, and I grieve for them.

But here's where I have to tell the rest of the story. I married my first wife when I was 19. We had a son. We were married for two years before I cheated on her and left her for another woman (not coincidentally, my current wife). It destroyed my ex-wife for a good five years, and my oldest son bore the brunt of my selfishness and our broken home.

I tell you that to acknowledge that I am not innocent. The old adage that "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you" is the penance I've had to pay. Not as karma. Not even as "what goes around comes around". Just a logical consequence of being a broken, selfish, fucked up person associating with others exactly like me.

I thought I had put all of that behind me, come to terms with it, done my penance and my therapy and emerged a whole and better person when I uncovered my wife's affair. It was completely different being the victim. You truly don't understand anyone else's pain until you've walked in those shoes.

I belong to a support group for people with unfaithful spouses. People there describe it as the worst pain in their entire lives. Worse than the death of their parents. Worse than the deaths of their children. Worse than the death of a spouse. That's actually a common refrain after discovering your spouse has cheated: wishing that they'd just died instead, because at least then you didn't have all the lies, deceit and betrayal from it.

So from where I stand, I can't make light of infidelity. I can't say it was just a minor flaw in an otherwise good person. I spent a long time believing that it made my wife *evil*, because that was how I felt about myself for a long time after my own affair...all the years I spent trying to turn myself into an honorable man after the grave sins I'd committed.

But that isn't true, either. Being unfaithful doesn't make a man evil or a monster. The damage it does is incalculable, true, but it's damage borne of being stupid, broken and selfish.

Does the hope that McNair might one day have come to a moment of clarity and redeemed himself, reconciled his marriage and given himself over to doing whatever it took to heal himself and his wife mean that he didn't deserve what he got?

I don't know. I don't know what lesson to take out of it. My feelings are mixed, my heart hurts, and I feel like I'm groaning from somewhere deep inside the broken pieces of my soul. It's a tragedy. That's it. Just a stupid, meaningless, hopeless, unnecessary tragedy.

So tonight, like last night, I'll pray for his children and his wife and hope that they find peace in the storm. That's all I can do.

That was a great post for putting a perspective on how different people are responding to McNair's situation. Thanks for sharing that.

[CU Tiger]

I'll ditto the great post comments to Drake.

And I'll say that it is a tragedy, and he did make mistakes. But I think many people are self righteous in their condemnation of his actions. I know several professional athletes who have business marriages and both parties have other partners. In many cases they may not even sleep in the same bed or even the same house. I do not know McNair's situation, so I can not comment to that end. But I would say everyone needs to think about a world where on a daily basis 7 of the 10 hottest women you see are literally throwing themselves at you (even if just for your money) is it inconceivable that you would stumble as well?

[thesloppy]

While I don't prescribe to the belief that cheating makes you necessarily evil, if I had a close personal friend who had been involved in 3 DUIs, carried an illegal firearm, AND was having an affair with a 20 yr old waitress, I would definitely categorize that dude as 'sketchy', rather than 'good', regardless of how much community service he performed, philanthropy he was involved with, or free blowjobs that dude gave out. If that same dude also ended up getting shot with/by said waitress I would probably even upgrade his status to 'very sketchy', regardless of how close of a friend he was, how normal our relationship may have been, or how 'good' he may have been in my company.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

is it inconceivable that you would stumble as well?

Yes, I'd say it's inconceivable that I'd be held up as some sort of model citizen & that the world was in such tragic shape because of my demise after doing so.
And even more inconceivable that those platitudes would come so easily when that stumble appears to have led to my demise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

While I don't prescribe to the belief that cheating makes you necessarily evil, if I had a close personal friend who had been involved in 3 DUIs, carried an illegal firearm, AND was having an affair with a 20 yr old waitress, I would definitely categorize that dude as 'sketchy', rather than 'good', regardless of how much community service he performed, philanthropy he was involved with, or free blowjobs that dude gave out. If that same dude also ended up getting shot with/by said waitress I would probably even upgrade his status to 'very sketchy', regardless of how close of a friend he was, how normal our relationship may have been, or how 'good' he may have been in my company.

Unless of course he was a star athlete or other form of celebrity, in which case none of that matters at all. Society simply holds those people to much lower standards than we would apply to friends, acquaintances, co-workers, cousins, in-laws, or strangers on the street.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I do not know McNair's situation, so I can not comment to that end.

that's very true

But I would say everyone needs to think about a world where on a daily basis 7 of the 10 hottest women you see are literally throwing themselves at you (even if just for your money) is it inconceivable that you would stumble as well?

Yes. absolutely inconceivable.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Drake

I've been thinking about Steve McNair all weekend with largely mixed feelings. I was not particularly a fan of his, though I did enjoy watching him on the field. I've been thinking a great deal about his kids and his wife and what they must be going through.

I've also spent a great deal of time thinking about my own life. My wife is bipolar. Nearly three years ago, I uncovered that she had been having an affair with my best friend for at least two years. Somehow, I've managed to hold my marriage together for the sake of my kids, but I won't lie to you: it's been the hardest thing I've ever done. There isn't a day that's gone by that I haven't had to deal with her affair. In many ways, it destroyed my life. It destroyed my soul. At the worst of it, I sat in my living room in the middle of the night with a shotgun in my mouth wishing for the courage to end it all.

Affairs are not foibles. They are not human flaws. They are the deliberate destruction of another human being. I rank the selfishness necessary to have an affair up there with child molestation and murder on the scale of evil.

With that context, you need to understand that my first reaction to this story was that McNair got what he deserved. You willingly put enough misery out there in the universe and you deserve what you get.

But that isn't what his family deserved, and I grieve for them.

But here's where I have to tell the rest of the story. I married my first wife when I was 19. We had a son. We were married for two years before I cheated on her and left her for another woman (not coincidentally, my current wife). It destroyed my ex-wife for a good five years, and my oldest son bore the brunt of my selfishness and our broken home.

I tell you that to acknowledge that I am not innocent. The old adage that "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you" is the penance I've had to pay. Not as karma. Not even as "what goes around comes around". Just a logical consequence of being a broken, selfish, fucked up person associating with others exactly like me.

I thought I had put all of that behind me, come to terms with it, done my penance and my therapy and emerged a whole and better person when I uncovered my wife's affair. It was completely different being the victim. You truly don't understand anyone else's pain until you've walked in those shoes.

I belong to a support group for people with unfaithful spouses. People there describe it as the worst pain in their entire lives. Worse than the death of their parents. Worse than the deaths of their children. Worse than the death of a spouse. That's actually a common refrain after discovering your spouse has cheated: wishing that they'd just died instead, because at least then you didn't have all the lies, deceit and betrayal from it.

So from where I stand, I can't make light of infidelity. I can't say it was just a minor flaw in an otherwise good person. I spent a long time believing that it made my wife *evil*, because that was how I felt about myself for a long time after my own affair...all the years I spent trying to turn myself into an honorable man after the grave sins I'd committed.

But that isn't true, either. Being unfaithful doesn't make a man evil or a monster. The damage it does is incalculable, true, but it's damage borne of being stupid, broken and selfish.

Does the hope that McNair might one day have come to a moment of clarity and redeemed himself, reconciled his marriage and given himself over to doing whatever it took to heal himself and his wife mean that he didn't deserve what he got?

I don't know. I don't know what lesson to take out of it. My feelings are mixed, my heart hurts, and I feel like I'm groaning from somewhere deep inside the broken pieces of my soul. It's a tragedy. That's it. Just a stupid, meaningless, hopeless, unnecessary tragedy.

So tonight, like last night, I'll pray for his children and his wife and hope that they find peace in the storm. That's all I can do.

Great post and even greater perspective, not to mention very gutsy to share. I wish you luck and most of all strength as you continue to deal with this.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that's very true

Yes. absolutely inconceivable.

I think for some its absolutely inconceivable, but as humans, I may even go as far as most, it isn't.

[Drake]

From early reports, apparently his wife was not aware.

Steve McNair shot four times, classified as homicide - ESPN

According to the New York Daily News, which cited unnamed sources close to McNair, his wife may have been unaware of the affair until learning of the circumstances of his death.

"She's blindsided by this," the newspaper quoted a source as saying of Mechelle McNair. "She's crushed. Her whole world is shattered."

Cook said Mechelle was "in and out of it." He said she had no comment after the police called his death a homicide.

Mechelle was "very upset, very distraught" Sunday, Cook said. She was preparing to finish the funeral arrangements Monday.

I can't imagine trying to plan a funeral for a sports icon and community leader under those circumstances. Mechelle McNair must be an amazing woman.

[Fidatelo]

Who is Cook? Is he the unnamed source? Because that would be some pretty poor reporting if that's the case

[Drake]

Bus Cook was Steve McNair's agent. I just didn't paste the entire article.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yes, I'd say it's inconceivable that I'd be held up as some sort of model citizen & that the world was in such tragic shape because of my demise after doing so.
And even more inconceivable that those platitudes would come so easily when that stumble appears to have led to my demise.

John, I am not going that far.
At best the dude made some horrible choices, at worst he was a pretty scummy guy, but either way I hate that he was lost.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Drake

From early reports, apparently his wife was not aware.

Steve McNair shot four times, classified as homicide - ESPN



I can't imagine trying to plan a funeral for a sports icon and community leader under those circumstances. Mechelle McNair must be an amazing woman.

When did a sports icon die?

She must be an amazing woman if she's cool with her husband cheating on her and buying some 20 yr old plaything an SUV.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow, thanks for sharing Drake. Must have been tough to put all that in words and thinking about all that again.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Wow, thanks for sharing Drake. Must have been tough to put all that in words and thinking about all that again.

+1

I'm continually amazed by Drake's strength of character with regard to his situation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chubby

She must be an amazing woman if she's cool with her husband cheating on her and buying some 20 yr old plaything an SUV.

I can think of some other words that might apply as well.

IIRC, some of those words may have been used here recently in connection with the SC governor story (although it's possible that I saw them used at another forum instead).

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I can think of some other words that might apply as well.

IIRC, some of those words may have been used here recently in connection with the SC governor story (although it's possible that I saw them used at another forum instead).

But he didn't die so it's prefectly ok to call her (the SC gov's wife) those names however, if you called Mrs McNair them you'd be shouted down as an insensitive lout...

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

But I would say everyone needs to think about a world where on a daily basis 7 of the 10 hottest women you see are literally throwing themselves at you (even if just for your money) is it inconceivable that you would stumble as well?

First off, I understand the case of "business marriages" and both sides being cool with girlfriends/boyfriends, although I don't get having four kids in such a marriage. If that turns out to be the case (and it's unlikely based on further updates already posted), then it's not really an affair in my mind, and I'll back off on that.

I do think a mid-30s guy has to be careful dating 20 year olds, that's just asking for trouble.

However, to get to your specific point, if I were living in that world under those circumstances and inclined to sleep with everything that threw herself at me (and wasn't concerned about disease and future paternity lawsuits), it's unlikely I'd be married and therefore committed to one woman in the first place, let alone have four children with her...

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Chubby

When did a sports icon die?

She must be an amazing woman if she's cool with her husband cheating on her and buying some 20 yr old plaything an SUV.

I'm giving McNair the benefit of the doubt in the Nashville area as an "icon" and "community leader". I'm from Indiana and would consider C Jeff Saturday an "icon" and "community leader" because he's so regionally beloved.

As far as Mechelle goes, I consider her amazing because I'm guessing that planning the funeral is something she's doing for her kids (who need the ceremony to say goodbye to their father) and as an acknowledgment of the community's need to grieve.

I haven't seen any articles that suggested she was "cool" with her husband cheating. I'm pretty sure the article I posted said she was finding out about it just as we were. If those things turn out to not be true and this was a business marriage, then my thoughts here clearly do not apply.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

First off, I understand the case of "business marriages" and both sides being cool with girlfriends/boyfriends, although I don't get having four kids in such a marriage. If that turns out to be the case (and it's unlikely based on further updates already posted), then it's not really an affair in my mind, and I'll back off on that.

I do think a mid-30s guy has to be careful dating 20 year olds, that's just asking for trouble.

However, to get to your specific point, if I were living in that world under those circumstances and inclined to sleep with everything that threw herself at me (and wasn't concerned about disease and future paternity lawsuits), it's unlikely I'd be married and therefore committed to one woman in the first place, let alone have four children with her...

IIRC he only has 2 kids with Mechelle so he has 2 with someone else...

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Drake

I haven't seen any articles that suggested she was "cool" with her husband cheating. I'm pretty sure the article I posted said she was finding out about it just as we were.

That does appear to be the case.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...mcnair06m.html

"Steve McNair's wife was unaware of affair with Sahel Kazemi until husband's death"

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Drake

From early reports, apparently his wife was not aware.

I am having trouble reconciling this with the fact that he had a condo, obviously separate from his family home, and the fact that she had not heard from him for a few days.

I am also astounded that none of the references to the "20 year old" ended with the word stripper. The fact that she was a waitress somewhere he took his kids makes it somehow more sordid to me.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Chubby

A spade is a spade. Michael Jackson is still a child molester and McNair is still unfaithful to his wife. I'm all for celebrating the good things people who have passed have done but don't try and make them saints.

I agree he cheated on his wife though I do not condone this in the USA 60 % of marriages end in divorce so if we are all going to get high and mightly that is pretty hypocritical.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Steve McNair was by all accounts a good man, did a lot for the community, loved his kids, but was morally flawed when it came to being a faithful husband, so as Chief put it he was no saint.

Good people make mistakes and do bad things and even truly rotten people can slip up and do something good once in a while. In the end McNair was human, showed weakness in an area that affects many men. This is especially a huge pratfall of many celebrity types, since the opportunities are much more plentiful, they just rarely turn out anywhere close to this badly.

The unfortunate truth is that by most measures, anywhere between 35 to 50% of both men and women are or one time were as flawed as Steve McNair and it is wrong to profess your loyality to somebody and then cheat.

This indescretion (if early reports are true) just turned out to be a very poor decision and it has nothing to do with age or anything else. If the woman did do this, then she had stablity issues and McNair obviously discovered this in the worst way possible. It is unfortunate for him, but devastating to the family he left behind, as well as the family of the girl.

Good post.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by jeff061

It's clear the moral police are out in full force, painting negatives so they can view themselves in a better light.

But go wild. Doesn't really bother me at all.

Agreed I never would of guessed this guys death would of caused such a moral outrage even how it went down............But, I am sure guys like Ray Lewis aren't crying rivers so..

[stevew]

I think I've got a timeline reasonably placed together

-Several months ago McNair starts an affair with the 20 year old waitress.
-The DUI arrest a few days before the death puts McNair in an extremely awkward position. That would basically be the smoking gun his wife would need to take him to the bank in divorce proceedings.
-McNair goes over to break off the affair
-Girlfriend does not respond well, leaves 2 dead bodies.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree he cheated on his wife though I do not condone this in the USA 60 % of marriages end in divorce so if we are all going to get high and mightly that is pretty hypocritical.

The destruction of the family unit is a big issue in American Society. Would gangs be anywhere near the level of prevelance they are today if we had a much higher percentage of stable family households for example? Too many people have sex without thinking of the possible consequences of parenthood, and too many people get married thinking they have divorce as an "out", then have kids and that "out" becomes a lot more difficult and traumatic with a much larger impact than when they were just fooling around.

So yes, this may be common in our society, but that is not a good thing. Too many people don't stop to think about the consequences of their actions...

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I'll ditto the great post comments to Drake.

And I'll say that it is a tragedy, and he did make mistakes. But I think many people are self righteous in their condemnation of his actions. I know several professional athletes who have business marriages and both parties have other partners. In many cases they may not even sleep in the same bed or even the same house. I do not know McNair's situation, so I can not comment to that end. But I would say everyone needs to think about a world where on a daily basis 7 of the 10 hottest women you see are literally throwing themselves at you (even if just for your money) is it inconceivable that you would stumble as well?

Like Chris Rock said in a moment of seriousness cheating is related to the options available. It is opretty easy for some overweight 40 year old guy sitting on his living room sofa covered in frito crumbs watching the NFL network all day in Toledo,Ohio.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Agreed I never would of guessed this guys death would of caused such a moral outrage even how it went down............But, I am sure guys like Ray Lewis aren't crying rivers so..

What is causing the moral outrage is not his death but rather the fairly typical reaction of "but he was such a good guy". This is becoming common with celebrities (including athletes) rather than there being an honest look at their life.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I agree he cheated on his wife though I do not condone this in the USA 60 % of marriages end in divorce so if we are all going to get high and mightly that is pretty hypocritical.

This argument makes no sense. Shouldn't you be referencing some kind of stat on how many people have cheated on their spouse? Wouldn't that be the relevant stat? People get divorced for all kinds of reasons, only one of which is infidelity.

Also, keep in mind that even if it was 100% due to infidelity, most of those divorces would only involve 1 guilty party, so you'd be looking at half as many hypocrites as you are trying to imply.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

What is causing the moral outrage is not his death but rather the fairly typical reaction of "but he was such a good guy". This is becoming common with celebrities (including athletes) rather than there being an honest look at their life.

I had some "nice" words to say about Steve McNair but truth be told, I hadn't thought at all about him since he left football until now. So it's just a courtesy at this point.