2013-14 NBA Offseason/Draft Thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So their pick is what...#16 this year or something? Who's realistic in that range? Anybody decent, or is it a shallow-draft?

I've seen at least a couple of mocks that figure UCLA SF Shabazz Muhammed to Boston, if he isn't taken before 16. Both CBSsports.com guys project them to take German PG Dennis Schroeder. Other names that should be around in that vicinity would include Tim Hardaway, Jr. (Michigan) Kelly Olynyk (Gonzaga), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (UGA), Reggie Bullock (UNC).

How decent or shallow that seems, {shrug}, who knows these days.

[Chief Rum]

You guys back east aren't wasting time watching bad teams anymore?

Congratulations. You are now welcome to move to LA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You guys back east aren't wasting time watching bad teams anymore? Congratulations. You are now welcome to move to LA.

Hell, I'm hard pressed to get motivated to watch good teams these days.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hell, I'm hard pressed to get motivated to watch good teams these days.

In that case, all we need is to get you a fake tan and a convertible, and you could live in Hollywood.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Hell - I've gone on record as saying I'd rather they keep him and suck for 3-4 years longer than they would have then trade him and get better sooner. Loyalty man.

This comment doesn't really jive with your earlier statements about ignoring the Celtics if they suck. How can you expect the team to be loyal to a player if they can't rely on their fans to be loyal to them? If ownership suspects the fan base are going to jump ship for an extra 3-4 years if they stick with Pierce then they basically have to get rid of him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

This comment doesn't really jive with your earlier statements about ignoring the Celtics if they suck. How can you expect the team to be loyal to a player if they can't rely on their fans to be loyal to them? If ownership suspects the fan base are going to jump ship for an extra 3-4 years if they stick with Pierce then they basically have to get rid of him.

Valid point - let me try to explain better. If they were loyal to Pierce for his last couple years I'd be more likely to watch through the crap times for the "Paul Pierce retirement tour" then if they jettison him and go with a team of guys who I have no connection to. Particularly if the reasoning is basically "well it saved us a few million and netted us a mid-round draft pick."

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I've seen at least a couple of mocks that figure UCLA SF Shabazz Muhammed to Boston, if he isn't taken before 16. Both CBSsports.com guys project them to take German PG Dennis Schroeder. Other names that should be around in that vicinity would include Tim Hardaway, Jr. (Michigan) Kelly Olynyk (Gonzaga), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (UGA), Reggie Bullock (UNC).

How decent or shallow that seems, {shrug}, who knows these days.

I swear: every year we hear about how the next year is going to be awesome and how this year is shallow. Then a year goes by and "Noel isn't even more awesome than Davis", Shabazz Muhammed isn't the consensus #1 pick and best we've seen since LeBron, and we finally get to see a bunch of these freshmen against other college players so suddenly the wheat is separated from the chaff.

And then "next year's draft" isn't that great but don't worry, the year after, it will be awesome!

SI

[Comey]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I swear: every year we hear about how the next year is going to be awesome and how this year is shallow. Then a year goes by and "Noel isn't even more awesome than Davis", Shabazz Muhammed isn't the consensus #1 pick and best we've seen since LeBron, and we finally get to see a bunch of these freshmen against other college players so suddenly the wheat is separated from the chaff.

And then "next year's draft" isn't that great but don't worry, the year after, it will be awesome!

SI

First thing I read about this year's draft, which I read as soon as last draft was over, was that it was going to be the worst draft in years.

I've read very little that has gone off that track...it's a depth draft, but there are no stars.

[Chief Rum]

I don't see Pierce being traded, at least not this offseason. He is either going to be cut, or he will be on the C's roster on November 1.

The C's have a choice of cutting him for $5 M or keeping him for $16 M. No one is going to trade for him right now, since then they would have a $16 M player on their roster who is whatever old. No one is going to trade for him after July 1 if he is still on the C's because (again) he costs too much for what he now provides.

So the C's aren't going to see any trade value back for Pierce at all, at least not this offseason. If they are comfortable keeping him at $16 M, then I suppose they will, although I suspect they will only do so if they somehow get a coach to replace Rivers that KG and Pierce respect enough to return and make another run at it.

But I just don't see that. Most people think Rivers is the second or third best coach in basketball, and with him, this team didn't even have home court advantage in the playoffs. It just doesn't make much sense for the Celtics to not take this opportunity to get a jump on their rebuild. The Clippers will deal for KG and give them another first in this draft on Thursday and a young center with potential in DJ. And they can use the cap space/salary relief they can get for cutting Pierce. Then they still have the trade piece of Rondo, who they probably decide is more trouble than he's worth, but can net a lot coming back.

And given all that, I just don't see them keeping Pierce on except for sentimental reasons or to keep fans tied in.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Comey

First thing I read about this year's draft, which I read as soon as last draft was over, was that it was going to be the worst draft in years.

I've read very little that has gone off that track...it's a depth draft, but there are no stars.

Agreed. From everything I have read, this is the worst draft in a long time. And next year's draft, highlighted presumeably by Andrew Wiggins, is supposed to be an excellent draft.

[miami_fan]

Of course we don't know how this draft will turn out but comparisons to the 2003 draft surely doesn't help.

[Chief Rum]

I guess conventional thinking be damned. Wojnarowski is saying the Celtics are drawing enough trade interest on Pierce after all to make it worth it to keep him and seek those trades. If they get something significant for a $16 M year by Pierce, that GM they trade with is a dummy.

And the KG thing, well, he might go somewhere, but Woj again is saying it seems unlikely the league will aprove a deal to the Clips, because of how it would look (which is stupid and sucks).

So who the heck knows what the Celtics will do now. And also who knows what the Clips will do. They still have three very interesting trade pieces in Jordan, Bledsoe and Butler's expiring contract, and it will be intriguing to see what they choose to do with those assets.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I guess conventional thinking be damned. Wojnarowski is saying the Celtics are drawing enough trade interest on Pierce after all to make it worth it to keep him and seek those trades. If they get something significant for a $16 M year by Pierce, that GM they trade with is a dummy.

I disagree. Pierce is $15m for one year. He produced 19/6/5 last year and his per-36 numbers were within 10% of his career average. In other words, he was pretty effective while on the floor. By all accounts he's also a great teammate.

He's not the #1 guy anymore, though he did that with the Celtics last year. But put him on a team where he can be #2 or #3 and he's easily worth his money PLUS the team only will owe him $15m for that year. In the NBA, that's worth quite a bit. Production + leadership + no long term salary = valuable commodity. As such, someone is going to make a deal either now or at the deadline for Pierce (provided he's healthy and he has been remarkably durable). Of course, it will involve the Cs taking back some salary as well, but they'll wind up with something (a 1st round pick) or a promising young player in return.

[Groundhog]

The draft has no clear-cut #1 or even numbers #1-#5 guys, but I don't think it's really a shallow draft, just lacking in star power. There's a number of guys projected in the 10-25 spots that I like.

[JPhillips]

Holy shit that bridge was close to decapitating several Heat players.

[nol]

Yeah, the average NBA draft produces somewhere between 9-10 players who end up as starters for 2 or more seasons (forgot where that stat came from on Twitter this morning). There's probably not going to be more than 3-4 future All-Stars in this draft class, but it will likely end up with more than its share of productive players.

[miami_fan]

Brian Shaw is heading to Denver.

[Groundhog]

Good situation for Shaw to walk into for his first head coaching gig, but I'm kinda bummed that Brett Brown didn't get it due to his Australia link (both our national team and my local team in the national comp) but looks like he's in the running for the Sixers still.

[Groundhog]

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

I have heard some good arguments that he should be in the top 3 picks. I think he is going to be a very productive player in the league.

[Groundhog]

Less than 24 hours out and I still have NFI what the Cavs are going to do tomorrow. Convential thinking says that, assuming they don't move the pick to trade down a couple of spots - not a bad idea, depending on what they get for #1 - the Cavs grab Len or Noel. Having said that, the Cavs last couple of drafts have been anything but conventional, so I fully expect to be surprised. Porter/McLemore/Oladipo are all possibilities, and I think I'd rate them the reverse of the order I listed. I think I feel more confident about all 3 of those guys than Len or Noel to be honest.

Cavs apparently looked to acquire Kevin Love with no luck, and are talking to Pelicans (feels so wrong to type that) about a swap too, but I'm thinking we most likely make the pick.

I still really like Olynyk and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes earlier than expected, but if he slips into the teens, I really, really hope we take the Mavs #13 off their hands and select him. We have dire need of scoring from the post, and picking a guy like Olynyk would help counter Tristan Thompson & Varejao's weaknesses from the post on offense.

My pick for some potential late-1st steals would be UNC's Reggie Bullock who has the situational stats in college to peg him for maybe a very valuable '3s and D' role player. Shabazz is slipping too and, even though he did very little beyond score at UCLA, he would be great value in the middle of the 1st IMO if he falls. I know very little about German PG Shroeder outside of he has some impressive highlight clips, and Kansas' Withey seems pretty capable of stepping in straight away as a shot blocker.

[Atocep]

I like Noel and Porter in this draft. Oladipo, McLemore, and Len don't really impress me.

Tony Mitchell is an interesting player that will go lower than he probably should and I can't believe Plumlee is probably going to go in the 1st round.

[Groundhog]

Tony Mitchell passes the eye test, but this pretty much scared me off him:

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ard-Crop-4280/

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Right. Hopefully though they'll either hold him, or he'll retire when they trade him.

Hell - I've gone on record as saying I'd rather they keep him and suck for 3-4 years longer than they would have then trade him and get better sooner. Loyalty man.

So their pick is what...#16 this year or something? Who's realistic in that range? Anybody decent, or is it a shallow-draft?

Is it really loyalty to a player to force them to end their career with a rebuilding team that has no shot at a title? Clippers is obviously off now, but if you traded him to a team with KG, Doc, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, wouldn't that be doing him a favor? Same now with maybe a Golden State or Denver where he could be the veteran who shows up 25-30 minutes a night, sometimes playing the hero in the last 2 minutes, sometimes deferring to a Steph Curry or Ty Lawson. (He looks great as a secondary option with ball-movers around him, his problem this year was we were forced to play him 35 min a night and he wore down.) Was it disrespectful or disloyal to trade Ray Bourque to the Avs at the end of his career?

As for #16 there are a number of intriguing options. Shabazz if he falls, Schroeder (although there's talk a team ahead of us promised him), Jamaal Franklin, Shane Larkin (that probably means Rondo is out the door sooner rather than later), Karasev. Ainge has a pretty good track record of at least picking up intriguing players in the mid-1st round, drafting Sullinger 21st (we'll see how the back plays out long-term), Bradley 19th, and you can go back to Rondo 21st and Al Jefferson 15th overall. You'd be surprised how many good players, particularly "undersized PG's" were picked 16th-22nd recently -Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague and Darren Collison in 09, Eric Bledsoe and Bradley in 2010, no PG's in 2011 (but Faried, Vucevic, Shumpert and Tobias Harris). Sure, you get plenty of Luke Babbitt's, Royce White's and Kevin Seraphin's in that range, but there's a lot of solid talent - and like people have said, it's more a deep draft than a top-heavy one.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Is it really loyalty to a player to force them to end their career with a rebuilding team that has no shot at a title? Clippers is obviously off now, but if you traded him to a team with KG, Doc, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, wouldn't that be doing him a favor? Same now with maybe a Golden State or Denver where he could be the veteran who shows up 25-30 minutes a night, sometimes playing the hero in the last 2 minutes, sometimes deferring to a Steph Curry or Ty Lawson. (He looks great as a secondary option with ball-movers around him, his problem this year was we were forced to play him 35 min a night and he wore down.) Was it disrespectful or disloyal to trade Ray Bourque to the Avs at the end of his career?

As for #16 there are a number of intriguing options. Shabazz if he falls, Schroeder (although there's talk a team ahead of us promised him), Jamaal Franklin, Shane Larkin (that probably means Rondo is out the door sooner rather than later), Karasev. Ainge has a pretty good track record of at least picking up intriguing players in the mid-1st round, drafting Sullinger 21st (we'll see how the back plays out long-term), Bradley 19th, and you can go back to Rondo 21st and Al Jefferson 15th overall. You'd be surprised how many good players, particularly "undersized PG's" were picked 16th-22nd recently -Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Jeff Teague and Darren Collison in 09, Eric Bledsoe and Bradley in 2010, no PG's in 2011 (but Faried, Vucevic, Shumpert and Tobias Harris). Sure, you get plenty of Luke Babbitt's, Royce White's and Kevin Seraphin's in that range, but there's a lot of solid talent - and like people have said, it's more a deep draft than a top-heavy one.

Not disloyal to the player to trade him if he wants to go. If he doesn't want to go then it's sucky though. It's sad too though.

Wasn't disloyal to trade Bourque, but it was bittersweet, yeah. Same would be the case for Pierce.

[Logan]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m

Boston and Brooklyn discussing a blockbuster deal that would send Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m

Possible Nets package includes expiring deal of Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Tomike Shenglia and three first-round picks, sources tell Y!

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Logan

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m

Boston and Brooklyn discussing a blockbuster deal that would send Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce to Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m

Possible Nets package includes expiring deal of Kris Humphries, Gerald Wallace, Tomike Shenglia and three first-round picks, sources tell Y!

We deserve 10 first round picks for Wallace's contract.

[korme]

That would certainly make for a star-studded (albeit almost all over the hill) cast in Brooklyn - DWill, JJ, PP, Garnett and Brook. 5 All-Stars.

[nol]

There have to be better ways for the Celtics to fully tank than that. Those picks would all be in the 20s.

[korme]

lol u guys remember Royce White

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by korme

lol u guys remember Royce White

Oh crap. What did he do this time?

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by nol

There have to be better ways for the Celtics to fully tank than that. Those picks would all be in the 20s.

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

[korme]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Oh crap. What did he do this time?

SI

Just poking fun at the draft. Huge sleeper, great pick at the time just a year ago - and now we may never see him log an NBA minute.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Kelly Olynyk is looking like pretty good value around the 10 spot as far as offense goes. Seems to be a guy that is underrated largely thanks to being a non-Euro whitey, and his situational stats on draftexpress re: the stuff that will be asked of him in the NBA (pick-and-roll roll man, finishing at the rim, scoring in the halfcourt) are all pretty exceptional compared to the other bigs in this class. Doesn't have the upside of Len or Noel, but I could see him out-performing those guys as a rookie, especially if he can defend NBA bigs semi-competently.

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by whomario

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

And the Rockets would make that trade again in a heartbeat

SI

[whomario]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And the Rockets would make that trade again in a heartbeat

SI

which they should Still, Thunder imo could be in a great position for the next 2,3 years to make a serious title run again. Might have been with Harden, too, but i´m not really that interested in those what-if-scenarios.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

In 2014 and 2015 the Hawks have the right to swap picks with the Nets.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by whomario

There´s no way Olynyk falls past the Thunder at 12 (yeah, the Thunder have a lottery pick and another first rounder as well as the 32nd pick. If they don´t royally blow it, this could be a huge draft for them). He´d fit in pretty much perfectly as both a post option but also being able to shoot the ball.

No way those picks would get Hardin back. They still have a good team, but Presti might have closed the window with one horrible trade.

I'm not at all sold on Olynk. He was so soft in the tourny. Can he play against NBA 4s and 5s?

[korme]

Woj now reporting Jason Terry goes along with PP/KG to Brooklyn, with Evans/Bogans + min. sal guy to Boston

[whomario]

I´m not saying they would. I´m not even judging the Harden trade, don´t care about it in the context of this draft. That´s for fans of teams to argue about, as a neutral observer i claim the right to fully ignore that trade

But: Harden in OKC wouldn´t have been the same as Harden at Houston. He´d have been a 6th man with a stars contract in a league where the salary Cap gets tougher to beat. (for what it´s worth: I think the Thunder would have been best off signing Harden and trading Westbrook for a decent big and a game-manager/shooter at PG)

How was Olynyk "soft" in the tournament ? He had a bad shooting game against Wichita, but got to the line 14 times, he also scored 17 2nd half points the game before that.
He won´t be a guy you throw the ball and then wait for him to score, but as a complimentary player on a team like OKC where all he needs to do is shoot the ball and a bail-out option close to the basket on quick moves ? He´ll be perfect in that role.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I dunno. Maybe next years, but you never know what can happen and with Pearce and KG getting up there.

First of all, it looks like Terry is gonna be in the deal, and I have no idea of how this will even work under the salary cap. Even if KG and Pierce fall off completely, the stars on the Nets can still get them into the playoffs. They'll never be mistaken for big-time contenders, but they played poorly enough to get their coach fired and still ended up with the 4 seed.

Edit: I like the deal better with Terry in it. It's apparent that you can't trade Pierce without KG, and none of the destinations KG would approve of (since no deal to the Clippers can happen) have anything in terms of young players to offer. The picks from Brooklyn probably won't be that great, but the picks are better than what a team like the Lakers could offer. And if you're going to tank, this year will be one of the better years to do it

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Not disloyal to the player to trade him if he wants to go. If he doesn't want to go then it's sucky though. It's sad too though.

Wasn't disloyal to trade Bourque, but it was bittersweet, yeah. Same would be the case for Pierce.

I agree with Bittersweet (especially if they're traded to the Nets - would much rather have them go anywhere but BK, NY, LAL, Miami). I wish we could spend the next 2-3 years contending until Pierce retires, then have a smooth transition to the next star, but that's just too hard in the salary cap era. And I think it would be even more bittersweet to watch Pierce carrying them to 30-40 wins and at best a 1st-round playoff defeat. Literally anything we can get for them is better for the franchise going forward than if KG or Pierce had retired after last season or this one.

Originally Posted by korme

Just poking fun at the draft. Huge sleeper, great pick at the time just a year ago - and now we may never see him log an NBA minute.

Or it might be like the year he took off from Minnesota and he shows up as a good starter in 2 years. Bill Simmons might have had a hard on for him, but he was always known as an incredibly high-risk/high-reward pick, which was why he fell out of the lottery and went to a team with 3 1st-round picks.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by korme

Woj now reporting Jason Terry goes along with PP/KG to Brooklyn, with Evans/Bogans + min. sal guy to Boston

According to ESPN, the deal is:

Garnett
Pierce
Terry

for

Evans
Bogan
Wallace
Shengelia
2014 1st
2016 1st
2018 1st

That's probably a good deal for both teams. A NJ rotation of Williams, Johnson, Lopez, Garnett and Pierce could compete with most anyone. With 2 seven footers, two guys at 6'7" and the 6'3" Williams, they'd present a matchup problem for many teams. Plus they get rid of the horrible salary of Wallace, who has 3 years/30 mil to go. They go into win now mode, with fits with the age of the other 3 guys.

The Cs get a bunch of scrubs and take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA with Wallace, but they'll get numerous draft picks. The 2014 one probably won't be very good, but the 2018 one may be great.

As for Pierce and Garnett, they get the NY spotlight and get to stick together to make one more run at a title. Lopez and Johnson could take some of the load off Pierce and Garnett and they'd still have a top-notch PG feeding them the ball.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

According to ESPN, the deal is:

Garnett
Pierce
Terry

for

Evans
Bogan
Wallace
Shengelia
2014 1st
2016 1st
2018 1st

That's probably a good deal for both teams. A NJ rotation of Williams, Johnson, Lopez, Garnett and Pierce could compete with most anyone. With 2 seven footers, two guys at 6'7" and the 6'3" Williams, they'd present a matchup problem for many teams. Plus they get rid of the horrible salary of Wallace, who has 3 years/30 mil to go. They go into win now mode, with fits with the age of the other 3 guys.

The Cs get a bunch of scrubs and take on one of the worst contracts in the NBA with Wallace, but they'll get numerous draft picks. The 2014 one probably won't be very good, but the 2018 one may be great.

As for Pierce and Garnett, they get the NY spotlight and get to stick together to make one more run at a title. Lopez and Johnson could take some of the load off Pierce and Garnett and they'd still have a top-notch PG feeding them the ball.

I think that trade is garbage for Boston. You don't trade for a pick that could be useful five years from now. How does Ainge not hold out for Lopez?

[Lathum]

This shit with booing Stern pisses me off. The growth the NBA saw under his leadership has been amazing

[Groundhog]

Please not Len please not Len please not Len.

[MrBug708]

Ha!

[Izulde]

I told you! I told you all! AB15 has the best upside of anybody in the draft and it wouldn't shock me if he went #!!

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I told you! I told you all! AB15 has the best upside of anybody in the draft and it wouldn't shock me if he went #!!

No

[bulletsponge]

its nice to see a surprise pick