TPB HTML Look Familiar? - Page 3

SirFozzie · 11-27-2003, 02:57 PM

Maybe if you had READ the topic before posting, you would have seen it, instead of jumping in with both feet, then you wouldn't look bad for APPARENTLY trying to restart a flamefest.

(BTW, I see the incitement going on at .400, and I hope that wiser heads on both sides step in before this gets too nuts.)

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 03:09 PM

Joe,

Obviously your beta testers are volunteers, but perhaps in the future there may be a way to expand the test and possibly work on ways to get more input. I'm curious how many people sign up to beta test ... just so they can play the game.

Beta testers should 1) Be familiar with the type of game they're testing. 2) Enjoy playing that type of game. 3) Be willing to skip playing for self gratification and more for testing purposes. 4) Be willing to put more time into the game they're testing than into other games.

Perhaps there are ways to keep the beta testers accountable, hence the idea for submitting reports on the types of tests the tester ran.

Another suggestion would be for the beta testers to find time to get into a private forum or chat room to make sure that all bases are covered. You don't want something to be missed.

My knack for finding little things and digging deep into the feature set is one reason I signed up with OOTP and 400 SS to be a beta tester.

In terms of pre-release demos, I still think Shaun's whole subscription model was a good concept when he did that. That's just one way to do it.

Another way to do it is the way Microsoft does it. When they release the public beta, they charge for the software. They usually call them Release Candidates. I did this with XP, with a version of Office, and with Internet Explorer. The software has built in "kill" mechanisms that will make the software stop working after a certain date.

Skippy

sabotai · 11-27-2003, 03:31 PM

Quote:

In closing, please name 1 game that, when released, doesn't have issues. Someone earlier in the post said that FOF is on its fifth version, and still needs patches.

There's no way you can put the issues that TDCB and TPB has had on release on the same level as FOF2k4. Games on release always have things that need to be tweaked, misspellings to correct, minor problems to correct. Not all have CTDs, RTEs and other major problems (ie. players disappearing). It's silly to put them on the same level and compare them.

Samdari · 11-27-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Stallings
Couple of things:

1) There is no excuse for bugs, regardless of whether you pre-order. *Especially* if you pre-order. I am dissapointed that some of our pre-order customers have had issues, and as such, we have been working through the evening and over the holiday to help people out. Most of the gameplay issues have been fixed, and will be reflected in tomorrow evening's public release.

I appreciate you stepping up and saying this Joe. It saved me the trouble of pointing out how the "pre-order customers should expect showstopping bugs" argument is such complete and utter crap. You really should get a C & D order preventing certain fanboys from trying to defend you on public message boards. Despite the fact that your company is NOT taking the position that your customers should expect this, having others do so will leave a bad taste in some potential customer's mouths.

Another question for the .400 folks. Do you guys not enjoy spending time with your families on holidays? First Dec 22 last year, now the evening before Thanksgiving this year. I want you all to go write on the company whiteboard 100 times, "I will not release a game right before a holiday"

Good luck on heading off the storm on this one, and finishing TPF.

Schmidty · 11-27-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SirFozzie
Maybe if you had READ the topic before posting, you would have seen it, instead of jumping in with both feet, then you wouldn't look bad for APPARENTLY trying to restart a flamefest.

(BTW, I see the incitement going on at .400, and I hope that wiser heads on both sides step in before this gets too nuts.)

David, you're a nice guy and I like you. Having said that, stop acting like a pompous jackass. You aren't the thread police.

Pacersfan46 · 11-27-2003, 04:12 PM

To start, I think this whole HTML thing is stupid. Who really gives a damn?

Secondly, you're asking for people who weren't satisfied with their support Joe .... I guess I could be one. My support was provided by ... you.

I preordered TPB, and while I haven't come across any bugs, that's the bad part. I can't play my game. I emailed you about this, and you wrote back telling me my Order-ID. Which is an honest mistake, I know many people didn't keep theirs for ... whatever reason. My problem though is that when I put my order-ID in that it won't give me the license, and I can't play.

Since the time I e-mailed you yesterday for the 2nd time about this, it's been over 24 hours. I understand it's Thanksgiving and you have every right to enjoy yours like everyone else ... but as a customer I'm a bit .... miffed that I preordered the game to play it on Wednesday, and I could be lucky if I get to play it on the public release date Friday. Just a bit frustrating.

markprior22 · 11-27-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
Joe,

Obviously your beta testers are volunteers, but perhaps in the future there may be a way to expand the test and possibly work on ways to get more input. I'm curious how many people sign up to beta test ... just so they can play the game.

Beta testers should 1) Be familiar with the type of game they're testing. 2) Enjoy playing that type of game. 3) Be willing to skip playing for self gratification and more for testing purposes. 4) Be willing to put more time into the game they're testing than into other games.

Perhaps there are ways to keep the beta testers accountable, hence the idea for submitting reports on the types of tests the tester ran.

Another suggestion would be for the beta testers to find time to get into a private forum or chat room to make sure that all bases are covered. You don't want something to be missed.

My knack for finding little things and digging deep into the feature set is one reason I signed up with OOTP and 400 SS to be a beta tester.

In terms of pre-release demos, I still think Shaun's whole subscription model was a good concept when he did that. That's just one way to do it.

Another way to do it is the way Microsoft does it. When they release the public beta, they charge for the software. They usually call them Release Candidates. I did this with XP, with a version of Office, and with Internet Explorer. The software has built in "kill" mechanisms that will make the software stop working after a certain date.

Skippy

I see posts like this quite often and I feel the need to respond. I used to think "who the hell is beta testing these games?". I have since been involved in two different text sim betas and now see that it just isn't that simple to blame the beta testers or imply that they don't know enough to be good testers. Sometimes problems are brought up and are simply not addressed (due to time constraints, other bugs that are more severe, etc) until later via a patch. It's not that the betas didn't do their job...sometimes the designer just can't implement what the betas are reporting for various reasons. Should the release date slip if that happens? Maybe, but the betas don't have anything to do with that (other than possibly being asked their opinion). Sometimes things might happen between beta and release that affect the game. I was shocked when I d/l OOTP 4 (maybe 5) and found right away that earned runs scored in the top of the first inning were not counting against ERA. How in the hell did that get past beta?
I don't believe that it did. Something had to have happened to cause that bug. How does FOF5 get released and crash when TCY drafts are used? I have a hard time believing that feature wasn't tested significantly during the beta process.

Basically, I just want to say that many comments concerning beta testers are being made by people without proper knowledge of what is taking place. I don't mean to preach because I used to be one of them. I don't get paid to beta test but I take the responsibility seriously because I LOVE sports sims and am excited about the direction they are headed.

Icy · 11-27-2003, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markprior22
I see posts like this quite often and I feel the need to respond. I used to think "who the hell is beta testing these games?". I have since been involved in two different text sim betas and now see that it just isn't that simple to blame the beta testers or imply that they don't know enough to be good testers. Sometimes problems are brought up and are simply not addressed (due to time constraints, other bugs that are more severe, etc) until later via a patch. It's not that the betas didn't do their job...sometimes the designer just can't implement what the betas are reporting for various reasons. Should the release date slip if that happens? Maybe, but the betas don't have anything to do with that (other than possibly being asked their opinion). Sometimes things might happen between beta and release that affect the game. I was shocked when I d/l OOTP 4 (maybe 5) and found right away that earned runs scored in the top of the first inning were not counting against ERA. How in the hell did that get past beta?
I don't believe that it did. Something had to have happened to cause that bug. How does FOF5 get released and crash when TCY drafts are used? I have a hard time believing that feature wasn't tested significantly during the beta process.

Basically, I just want to say that many comments concerning beta testers are being made by people without proper knowledge of what is taking place. I don't mean to preach because I used to be one of them. I don't get paid to beta test but I take the responsibility seriously because I LOVE sports sims and am excited about the direction they are headed.

I agree with you that sometimes betatesters report stuff and it's not fixed, but then the programmer should admit his fault insted of leting everybody to blame at the betatesters, it happened at sigames forums, everybody asking how was it tested when there were really easy to see bugs not fixed. About TPB, i asked to be betatester but i wasn't aproved so i don't know how was the betatesting, you beat me on that. Yesterday an hour after the game was relesed i posted 4 bugs at 400ss forums, some of them about crashing because some logos were not included, others about error alocating memory (that could depend on the system) and one about a missing scrollbar at the FA agent. This means that or the betatesters disn't find them before or that the developers didn't fix them after being reported, both cases are not the same, but have the same efect for the customer that purchased the game and has to deal with the bugs.

I think that the best way is to create a public beta demo, telling everybody that it's a demo that will have bugs, i'm sure that will be tons of guys that will play it nad will find tons of bugs, again look at how it was done by sigames for CM4, they had tons of free betatesters that discovered tons of bugs, their only problem is that it was a retail game so you can't fix bugs the day before of the release.

Like you i'm happy about Joe Stallings not hidding, he recogniced that the pre release shouldn't have any bug and he has my respect, as he said, it's not a valid excuse, i payed to have a game early, but that doesn't mean that i don't mind if it's buggy.

FloridaFringe · 11-27-2003, 05:44 PM

Would the fact that the wrong players show up on your team’s depth chart or in the play calling screens be similar to disappearing players? I for one am waiting for this issue to be resolved, which the first patch addressed but didn't correct, until purchasing FOF 2004. This is a complete show-stopping bug in my book.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 05:49 PM

One thing I've remembered is that many times beta tests are often zip files, rather than a complete install.

I remember one thing that Markus did with OOTP was to actually give beta testers a fully, eLicensed copy of the game prior to release. In this way the beta testers can test the EXACT software that will be sold to the public.

A benefit of doing it like this is that the free software can serve as fair compensation for testing the game.

If 400 SS isn't doing this already, perhaps it's something they can consider. Not sure how big/small the beta teams are, but I don't think it would eat too much into the bottom line to do this. And in the long run it allows for thorough testing of the "release candidate" as opposed to just zipped up source code.

Subby · 11-27-2003, 05:54 PM

Joe should cut KippyBot and Couriers a check because they are working overtime for 400!!!

If you think KippyBot's work in this thread is good...well...

FloridaFringe · 11-27-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Subby
Joe should cut KippyBot and Couriers a check because they are working overtime for 400!!!

If you think KippyBot's work in this thread is good...well...

Please show me where I have mentioned 400 Studios in any of my posts either in this thread or another. If people would take the blinders off and not instantly look at others as fan boys then they might have understood my point. In not so many words, all games have bugs and the level of importance of each bug depends on the individual. Take it for what it is worth but that was the simplicity of my statement.

Subby · 11-27-2003, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FloridaFringe
Please show me where I have mentioned 400 Studios in any of my posts either in this thread or another. If people would take the blinders off and not instantly look at others as fan boys then they might have understood my point. In not so many words, all games have bugs and the level of importance of each bug depends on the individual. Take it for what it is worth but that was the simplicity of my statement.

Lighten up, Frances...

This is the Internet. Enjoy the free porn and off-shore gambling. Al Gore never meant for you to take it so...seriously.

FloridaFringe · 11-27-2003, 06:06 PM

Whatever you think Subby. Happy Thanksgiving FOF Fan Boy.

Buccaneer · 11-27-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Subby
Is it just me or did .400 Studios capture Kippybot and reprogram him to come back and wreak fanboy havoc at FOFC?

FEAR KIPPYBOT!!!

That was really good. Given the amount of "This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here] " I see in the thread, I would say the Kippybot is working very well.

Quote:

skippy you had to know that a .400 release would be closely scrutinized, given a previous track record. Sure it was going to have bugs, almost everything that comes out has bugs, but there was going to be little slack given. That might not be fair but that's the way it is.

I agree with this. It would be curious as to the TPF release, esp. considering that some of the beta testers are FOF/FOFC's best.

FloridaFringe · 11-27-2003, 06:08 PM

DOLA:

Everybody calls me Psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill you.

Subby · 11-27-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FloridaFringe
Happy Thanksgiving FOF Fan Boy.

Right back at ya', Spanky Von Titsworth.

Joe Stallings · 11-27-2003, 06:45 PM

Pacersfan46, I only have one email from you in my inbox, and that was for a lost order ID, which I looked up and sent back to you. I will go ahead and create an entirely new order ID and email to you tonight, let's see if that works.

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy

And what impressed me is Gary's willingness to spend his Thanksgiving Eve and probably today to make sure I had a playable game.

I don't agree with that. If they release a game right before Thanksgiving that has show-stopping bugs, that's on them.

Schmidty · 11-27-2003, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rexallllsc
I don't agree with that. If they release a game right before Thanksgiving that has show-stopping bugs, that's on them.

Exactly. A lot of people (including me) work on Thanksgiving. Whoopdee-fucking-doo.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 07:39 PM

Hey they could have just said "Fuck you. It's Thanksgiving, 400 Software Studios will reopen for normal operations on Monday morning. Have a nice weekend."

Did EA, Vivendi, Dreamcatcher, or any other software companies release new games this week? If so, how many of them are giving support to customers today? I'm sure if you called EA customer service or technical support right now, you'd get a message saying otherwise.

If you gave Joe, Arlie, Gary, etc. a call today, you'd probably be able to get support and whip up a nice conversation to boot.

While it's unfortunate they released a buggy game, at least they are taking the time to get it right before tomorrow's official release.

Subby · 11-27-2003, 07:42 PM

Good point, KippyBot.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schmidty
Exactly. A lot of people (including me) work on Thanksgiving. Whoopdee-fucking-doo.

But most software makers are closed today.

BTW ... What do you do? Only thing open in town here today: a grocery store, a few drug stores (RiteAid, Walgreens type), Kmart (but not Wal-Mart or Target), gas stations, 7-Eleven, a few fast food joints (limited hours) and Denny's (duh!). Oh and the movie theater.

If I was at my reporting job, I'd be off today. As a sub teacher, I'm off today and Friday.

Neuqua · 11-27-2003, 07:43 PM

I don't know if I'm just unlucky or what but everything seems to be a little off in TPB.

In my first three seasons I finished with 78 wins, then 72, and then 74.. The 76ers held the real life NBA record for victories with 69 which was set sometime in the 70s I think. And it lasted all the way until the Chicago Bulls won 72 games in the late 90s. 78,72,74 win totals in my first three years is tough to understand.

As is my 7'3'' 324lb C who has ratings of 81 for off. rebounding and 90 for def. rebounding only grabbing 7 rebounds per game. Someone that big and that good at rebounding should have numbers ATLEAST in the double figures one would think.

I've been as anxious anybody for the release of TPB as some of you know. I REALLY want to like this game but for now it's just not working out.

Neuqua

Schmidty · 11-27-2003, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
But most software makers are closed today.

BTW ... What do you do? Only thing open in town here today: a grocery store, a few drug stores (RiteAid, Walgreens type), Kmart (but not Wal-Mart or Target), gas stations, 7-Eleven, a few fast food joints (limited hours) and Denny's (duh!). Oh and the movie theater.

If I was at my reporting job, I'd be off today. As a sub teacher, I'm off today and Friday.

My job is to call you a nurse shoe-wearing nancy boy. I need a raise.

Actually, I'm an auditor at a local hotel.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 07:47 PM

Hopefully when real teams are released, the records and stuff will even out. The Kings (Royals) having the second worst record ... not these days.

BTW ... the other people who may work today are cops, firefighters, doctors, and hotel/motel workers (you). Rest assured, most corporate people don't work today.

ADDED: Surprised they make the hotel auditor work on the holiday.

The_herd · 11-27-2003, 07:51 PM

Do EA, Vivendi, Dreamcatcher, or any other software company have as much riding on a release as .400 did with this one? What it comes down to is .400 has let down a lot of people and unless TPF knocks everone's socks off at launch, then their customer base could very well be a fanboy only clique. Some people over on .400 boards expect TPF to be the best text sim ever made and if it is anything short of that then they should hold .400 accountable and stop kissing their asses.

Being in the Armed Forces I'm not impressed by giving up a holiday to work, its part of life. When yourelease a product the day before a holiday and it needs work, then you suck it up and get your ass to work. Its part of making a living. I know if pulled some incredibly shitty hours on any holiday you can name and I'm sure there is a whole hell of a lot of people on this board and in this world that have done the same.

I think we need to stop patting .400 on the back for showing up to work and ask them to get it right in the 1st place.

kcchief19 · 11-27-2003, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
That was really good. Given the amount of "This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here] " I see in the thread, I would say the Kippybot is working very well.

I agree with this. It would be curious as to the TPF release, esp. considering that some of the beta testers are FOF/FOFC's best.

Bucc, who says we always disagree? This does double for me. I've been a vocal critic of .400 in the past, but I'm not going for TPB so I can't comment on that. That being said, everyone knew -- including .400 -- that this release needed to be better than usually to erase some lingering doubts. I will gauge the success of this release based solely on the people at FOFC that I respect and not a bunch of fanboys and Kippybot who come in here to "save the day."

I bear no ill will against .400, but if the company wants to be big time and appear professional, they need to hire someone who handles customer service that has no emotional investment in the programming and brings a defensive tone to replying in forums like this.

And yes, the Ignore List is gold, Bucc.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 07:59 PM

Well, how possible was it that the bugs creeped in when everything was packaged into an executable install program and wrapped with eLicense?

As someone said on the 400 boards, it seems odds that nobody would have noticed the disappearing player and major (eye-catching) bugs during beta. So something creeped into the code somewhere between beta and release. Hence, the reason why the release candidate itself (fully wrapped) needs to be tested to. Hopefully, they do this with TPF to see what happens.

Also, is it possible that these issues with having to install all this extra stuff could be creating some of the problems? The 400 guys said they don't want to have to include everything within the install, but I think that may be their best bet in the future, even if it means a larger download.

In fact, if 400 wants to put together a 100 MB+ download, with everything in it, I'm willing to test it out. Just post a password protected link and PM me. I'll do it tonight. Obviously, that's a good first step to see if these bugs are a matter of missing files that the normal MS channels aren't giving us.

The_herd · 11-27-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
The 400 guys said they don't want to have to include everything within the install, but I think that may be their best bet in the future, even if it means a larger download.

Well, I actually agree with this. I don't think it would be too hard to set up the larger download and also offer a CD version to those who don't want to download something that size. Especially if it means putting out a better product.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 08:09 PM

I've purchased many games where it will install or update system files if they aren't there already.

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
Hey they could have just said "Fuck you. It's Thanksgiving, 400 Software Studios will reopen for normal operations on Monday morning. Have a nice weekend."

Sure, they could've. They also could've released the game next Monday....AFTER THANKSGIVING. They made the choice. They deal with it.

Quote:

Did EA, Vivendi, Dreamcatcher, or any other software companies release new games this week? If so, how many of them are giving support to customers today? I'm sure if you called EA customer service or technical support right now, you'd get a message saying otherwise.

You can't compare big-time companies to small indie ones. Different leagues.

Quote:

While it's unfortunate they released a buggy game, at least they are taking the time to get it right before tomorrow's official release.

If you bought a car, and the wheels fell off when you got one mile down the street, would you be pissed, or would you be happy beause "hey, they're working to fix it!"

Sorry, that doesn't fly with me. I'll have patience with developers. I never expect a perfect game out of the box...but I don't give them credit for fixing glaring errors, either. That comes with the territory.

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
But most software makers are

And most software makers don't release buggy software the day before a holiday. IMO, they only logical move is to stay and fix the bugs. If they don't, they're basically committing company suicide.

This isn't a slam on .400...just the troof.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 08:21 PM

The thing is ... the way beta testers are talking ... it doesn't appear these errors were there. Meaning:

1 - They got in when it was packaged and wrapped in eLicense
2 - Or beta testers had every piece of support software needed to make it work.

As for the car comparison, well, I own a Daewoo. Nuff said.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rexallllsc
And most software makers don't release buggy software the day before a holiday.

Can someone tell me what PC games were released this week?

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Neuqua
In my first three seasons I finished with 78 wins, then 72, and then 74.. The 76ers held the real life NBA record for victories with 69 which was set sometime in the 70s I think. And it lasted all the way until the Chicago Bulls won 72 games in the late 90s. 78,72,74 win totals in my first three years is tough to understand.

As is my 7'3'' 324lb C who has ratings of 81 for off. rebounding and 90 for def. rebounding only grabbing 7 rebounds per game. Someone that big and that good at rebounding should have numbers ATLEAST in the double figures one would think.

Those win #'s are SCARY.

Also, question re: the rebounding.

What are the #'s of the leading rebounder in the league?

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
Can someone tell me what PC games were released this week?

Please tell me you aren't asking people to go do the work for you!

Fact is, games that are buggy on this level are RARE from big-time game companies. So far, .400 is 2 for 2 regarding their bball games. They have a lot more at stake...a lot more to prove than say, EA with their games.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 08:32 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't somebody say at one time that basketball is one of the toughest to code and that football is one of the easiest to code.

As for games coming out this week. Given that I pretty much don't buy too many PC games, other than Solecismic, OOTP Dev. and 400 titles, I'm clueless as to what this week's new releases are.

mrskippy · 11-27-2003, 08:36 PM

OK This game was released this week:

Mysterious Journey 2: Chameleon
Released on 11/24/2003

Dreamcatcher/Adventure Company is known to have showstopping bugs in their games. If you were sitting down playing last night or today and it crashes, what are the odds of getting a patch today or Friday? Slim and none.

In some cases major studios never even patch their games.

druez · 11-27-2003, 08:41 PM

Ok Madden 2004 was released for XBOX and you couldn't import from the NCAA 2004 game.

Madden 2004 had major problems with dual control joysticks working properly.

Madden 2004 had numerious graphic glitches and problems.

Madden 2004 had a huge sack problem in coach mode.

I could go on but you get the point.

That was just one title but the list goes on.

NCAA 2004 had very choppy sound on an XBOX. Now this is a closed system with no variations.

Most of the crash bugs people have experienced in TPB are because of peoples OS's.

You need to keep your machines up to date, that isn't the responsibilty of the game maker but yours. Do your windows updates, update your media players. They develop games on "Current software" All the updates are free so the problem is on you.

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrskippy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't somebody say at one time that basketball is one of the toughest to code and that football is one of the easiest to code.

I'm not sure what the point of that is.

EagleFan · 11-27-2003, 09:26 PM

I should learn my lesson to never read another thread about .400 SS. The more I hear from their fanboys, the less I want to purchase any of their products. Now Kippy is back and being fanboy #1 (a-hole #1, you make the call). This freaking issue was already solved when I left for my turkeyday meal before noon but the fanboys just couldn't let it rest and the grand-daddy of all jackasses is leading the way.

Oh, and only a true jackass would threadjack a happy thanksgiving thread (the .400 forum thread) just to be a complete moron to stir up more crap.

Just why is he back on this board anyway?

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by druez
Ok Madden 2004 was released for XBOX and you couldn't import from the NCAA 2004 game.

Madden 2004 had major problems with dual control joysticks working properly.

Madden 2004 had numerious graphic glitches and problems.

Madden 2004 had a huge sack problem in coach mode.

I could go on but you get the point.

I hate to tell you, but Madden isn't a 100% real sim. The goals of most text sims is to mimic real-life as close as possible. There aren't many console games, Madden included, that are designed with that purpose......but thanks for trying.

rexallllsc · 11-27-2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EagleFan
I should learn my lesson to never read another thread about .400 SS. The more I hear from their fanboys, the less I want to purchase any of their products. Now Kippy is back and being fanboy #1 (a-hole #1, you make the call). This freaking issue was already solved when I left for my turkeyday meal before noon but the fanboys just couldn't let it rest and the grand-daddy of all jackasses is leading the way.

Oh, and only a true jackass would threadjack a happy thanksgiving thread (the .400 forum thread) just to be a complete moron to stir up more crap.

Just why is he back on this board anyway?

Shut up and be happy they decided to fix their bugs at all!

Arles · 11-27-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pacersfan46
To start, I think this whole HTML thing is stupid. Who really gives a damn?

Secondly, you're asking for people who weren't satisfied with their support Joe .... I guess I could be one. My support was provided by ... you.

I preordered TPB, and while I haven't come across any bugs, that's the bad part. I can't play my game. I emailed you about this, and you wrote back telling me my Order-ID. Which is an honest mistake, I know many people didn't keep theirs for ... whatever reason. My problem though is that when I put my order-ID in that it won't give me the license, and I can't play.

Since the time I e-mailed you yesterday for the 2nd time about this, it's been over 24 hours. I understand it's Thanksgiving and you have every right to enjoy yours like everyone else ... but as a customer I'm a bit .... miffed that I preordered the game to play it on Wednesday, and I could be lucky if I get to play it on the public release date Friday. Just a bit frustrating.

This is something that has to be handled by Viatech. We cannot force the elicense server to accept IDs. I know for a fact that we submitted a trouble ticket to elicense on this, but not all companies are willing to work over Thanksgiving like we are.

Subby · 11-27-2003, 10:05 PM

Thanks for shutting down KippyBot for the night...

SlapBone · 11-27-2003, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EagleFan
I should learn my lesson to never read another thread about .400 SS. The more I hear from their fanboys, the less I want to purchase any of their products.

Actually one of the people I'm assuming you are labeling a fanboy (Druez) is the person who turned me on to FOF2004 and TCY which are both top-notch sims.

I have also enjoyed TPB since I bought it. Druez also turned me on to this product. I have a couple of issues that I don't like about the interface (with TPB) but, overall, .400 makes a pretty good sim.

To say that FOF2004 is without issues is a complete farce (unless you see no problem with substituting some other team's players into your plays).

All of the guys making these games are grass-roots kind of people and are really only doing what they do for the fans.

McSweeny · 11-27-2003, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlapBone
Actually one of the people I'm assuming you are labeling a fanboy (Druez) is the person who turned me on to FOF2004 and TCY which are bot top-notch sims.

i'm assuming you meant "not top-notch sims"

Last I checked both TCY and FOF2004 are the best pro and college sims available.

SlapBone · 11-27-2003, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by McSweeny
i'm assuming you meant "not top-notch sims"

Last I checked both TCY and FOF2004 are the best pro and college sims available.

No i meant BOTH. But thanks for showing up Fanboy

druez · 11-27-2003, 10:41 PM

rexallllsc

People above said that EA Sports doesn't make games with bugs in it. I'm simply refuting that point. EA sports is supposed to be a sim. "if its in the game its in the game" ring a bell?

For that matter, No game plays in terms of gameplay more like real football then madden. So, I don't get your point.

11-27-2003, 02:57 PM	#101
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Maybe if you had READ the topic before posting, you would have seen it, instead of jumping in with both feet, then you wouldn't look bad for APPARENTLY trying to restart a flamefest. (BTW, I see the incitement going on at .400, and I hope that wiser heads on both sides step in before this gets too nuts.) __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

11-27-2003, 05:54 PM	#111
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Joe should cut KippyBot and Couriers a check because they are working overtime for 400!!! If you think KippyBot's work in this thread is good...well... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

11-27-2003, 06:06 PM	#114
FloridaFringe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale Fla	Whatever you think Subby. Happy Thanksgiving FOF Fan Boy. Last edited by FloridaFringe : 11-27-2003 at 06:06 PM.

11-27-2003, 06:45 PM	#118
Joe Stallings .400 Software Studios Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA	Pacersfan46, I only have one email from you in my inbox, and that was for a lost order ID, which I looked up and sent back to you. I will go ahead and create an entirely new order ID and email to you tonight, let's see if that works. Last edited by Joe Stallings : 11-27-2003 at 06:45 PM.

11-27-2003, 07:42 PM	#122
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Good point, KippyBot. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

11-27-2003, 03:09 PM	#102
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Joe, Obviously your beta testers are volunteers, but perhaps in the future there may be a way to expand the test and possibly work on ways to get more input. I'm curious how many people sign up to beta test ... just so they can play the game. Beta testers should 1) Be familiar with the type of game they're testing. 2) Enjoy playing that type of game. 3) Be willing to skip playing for self gratification and more for testing purposes. 4) Be willing to put more time into the game they're testing than into other games. Perhaps there are ways to keep the beta testers accountable, hence the idea for submitting reports on the types of tests the tester ran. Another suggestion would be for the beta testers to find time to get into a private forum or chat room to make sure that all bases are covered. You don't want something to be missed. My knack for finding little things and digging deep into the feature set is one reason I signed up with OOTP and 400 SS to be a beta tester. In terms of pre-release demos, I still think Shaun's whole subscription model was a good concept when he did that. That's just one way to do it. Another way to do it is the way Microsoft does it. When they release the public beta, they charge for the software. They usually call them Release Candidates. I did this with XP, with a version of Office, and with Internet Explorer. The software has built in "kill" mechanisms that will make the software stop working after a certain date. Skippy

11-27-2003, 04:12 PM	#106
Pacersfan46 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis	To start, I think this whole HTML thing is stupid. Who really gives a damn? Secondly, you're asking for people who weren't satisfied with their support Joe .... I guess I could be one. My support was provided by ... you. I preordered TPB, and while I haven't come across any bugs, that's the bad part. I can't play my game. I emailed you about this, and you wrote back telling me my Order-ID. Which is an honest mistake, I know many people didn't keep theirs for ... whatever reason. My problem though is that when I put my order-ID in that it won't give me the license, and I can't play. Since the time I e-mailed you yesterday for the 2nd time about this, it's been over 24 hours. I understand it's Thanksgiving and you have every right to enjoy yours like everyone else ... but as a customer I'm a bit .... miffed that I preordered the game to play it on Wednesday, and I could be lucky if I get to play it on the public release date Friday. Just a bit frustrating.

11-27-2003, 05:44 PM	#109
FloridaFringe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale Fla	Would the fact that the wrong players show up on your team’s depth chart or in the play calling screens be similar to disappearing players? I for one am waiting for this issue to be resolved, which the first patch addressed but didn't correct, until purchasing FOF 2004. This is a complete show-stopping bug in my book.

11-27-2003, 05:49 PM	#110
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	One thing I've remembered is that many times beta tests are often zip files, rather than a complete install. I remember one thing that Markus did with OOTP was to actually give beta testers a fully, eLicensed copy of the game prior to release. In this way the beta testers can test the EXACT software that will be sold to the public. A benefit of doing it like this is that the free software can serve as fair compensation for testing the game. If 400 SS isn't doing this already, perhaps it's something they can consider. Not sure how big/small the beta teams are, but I don't think it would eat too much into the bottom line to do this. And in the long run it allows for thorough testing of the "release candidate" as opposed to just zipped up source code.

11-27-2003, 06:08 PM	#116
FloridaFringe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale Fla	DOLA: Everybody calls me Psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill you.

11-27-2003, 07:39 PM	#121
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Hey they could have just said "Fuck you. It's Thanksgiving, 400 Software Studios will reopen for normal operations on Monday morning. Have a nice weekend." Did EA, Vivendi, Dreamcatcher, or any other software companies release new games this week? If so, how many of them are giving support to customers today? I'm sure if you called EA customer service or technical support right now, you'd get a message saying otherwise. If you gave Joe, Arlie, Gary, etc. a call today, you'd probably be able to get support and whip up a nice conversation to boot. While it's unfortunate they released a buggy game, at least they are taking the time to get it right before tomorrow's official release.

11-27-2003, 07:43 PM	#124
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	I don't know if I'm just unlucky or what but everything seems to be a little off in TPB. In my first three seasons I finished with 78 wins, then 72, and then 74.. The 76ers held the real life NBA record for victories with 69 which was set sometime in the 70s I think. And it lasted all the way until the Chicago Bulls won 72 games in the late 90s. 78,72,74 win totals in my first three years is tough to understand. As is my 7'3'' 324lb C who has ratings of 81 for off. rebounding and 90 for def. rebounding only grabbing 7 rebounds per game. Someone that big and that good at rebounding should have numbers ATLEAST in the double figures one would think. I've been as anxious anybody for the release of TPB as some of you know. I REALLY want to like this game but for now it's just not working out. Neuqua __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

11-27-2003, 07:47 PM	#126
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Hopefully when real teams are released, the records and stuff will even out. The Kings (Royals) having the second worst record ... not these days. BTW ... the other people who may work today are cops, firefighters, doctors, and hotel/motel workers (you). Rest assured, most corporate people don't work today. ADDED: Surprised they make the hotel auditor work on the holiday. Last edited by mrskippy : 11-27-2003 at 07:48 PM.

11-27-2003, 07:51 PM	#127
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Do EA, Vivendi, Dreamcatcher, or any other software company have as much riding on a release as .400 did with this one? What it comes down to is .400 has let down a lot of people and unless TPF knocks everone's socks off at launch, then their customer base could very well be a fanboy only clique. Some people over on .400 boards expect TPF to be the best text sim ever made and if it is anything short of that then they should hold .400 accountable and stop kissing their asses. Being in the Armed Forces I'm not impressed by giving up a holiday to work, its part of life. When yourelease a product the day before a holiday and it needs work, then you suck it up and get your ass to work. Its part of making a living. I know if pulled some incredibly shitty hours on any holiday you can name and I'm sure there is a whole hell of a lot of people on this board and in this world that have done the same. I think we need to stop patting .400 on the back for showing up to work and ask them to get it right in the 1st place. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

11-27-2003, 07:59 PM	#129
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Well, how possible was it that the bugs creeped in when everything was packaged into an executable install program and wrapped with eLicense? As someone said on the 400 boards, it seems odds that nobody would have noticed the disappearing player and major (eye-catching) bugs during beta. So something creeped into the code somewhere between beta and release. Hence, the reason why the release candidate itself (fully wrapped) needs to be tested to. Hopefully, they do this with TPF to see what happens. Also, is it possible that these issues with having to install all this extra stuff could be creating some of the problems? The 400 guys said they don't want to have to include everything within the install, but I think that may be their best bet in the future, even if it means a larger download. In fact, if 400 wants to put together a 100 MB+ download, with everything in it, I'm willing to test it out. Just post a password protected link and PM me. I'll do it tonight. Obviously, that's a good first step to see if these bugs are a matter of missing files that the normal MS channels aren't giving us.

11-27-2003, 08:09 PM	#131
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	I've purchased many games where it will install or update system files if they aren't there already.

11-27-2003, 08:21 PM	#134
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	The thing is ... the way beta testers are talking ... it doesn't appear these errors were there. Meaning: 1 - They got in when it was packaged and wrapped in eLicense 2 - Or beta testers had every piece of support software needed to make it work. As for the car comparison, well, I own a Daewoo. Nuff said.

11-27-2003, 08:32 PM	#138
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't somebody say at one time that basketball is one of the toughest to code and that football is one of the easiest to code. As for games coming out this week. Given that I pretty much don't buy too many PC games, other than Solecismic, OOTP Dev. and 400 titles, I'm clueless as to what this week's new releases are.

11-27-2003, 08:36 PM	#139
mrskippy Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: California	OK This game was released this week: Mysterious Journey 2: Chameleon Released on 11/24/2003 Dreamcatcher/Adventure Company is known to have showstopping bugs in their games. If you were sitting down playing last night or today and it crashes, what are the odds of getting a patch today or Friday? Slim and none. In some cases major studios never even patch their games.

11-27-2003, 08:41 PM	#140
druez Banned Join Date: Nov 2003	Ok Madden 2004 was released for XBOX and you couldn't import from the NCAA 2004 game. Madden 2004 had major problems with dual control joysticks working properly. Madden 2004 had numerious graphic glitches and problems. Madden 2004 had a huge sack problem in coach mode. I could go on but you get the point. That was just one title but the list goes on. NCAA 2004 had very choppy sound on an XBOX. Now this is a closed system with no variations. Most of the crash bugs people have experienced in TPB are because of peoples OS's. You need to keep your machines up to date, that isn't the responsibilty of the game maker but yours. Do your windows updates, update your media players. They develop games on "Current software" All the updates are free so the problem is on you.

11-27-2003, 09:26 PM	#142
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I should learn my lesson to never read another thread about .400 SS. The more I hear from their fanboys, the less I want to purchase any of their products. Now Kippy is back and being fanboy #1 (a-hole #1, you make the call). This freaking issue was already solved when I left for my turkeyday meal before noon but the fanboys just couldn't let it rest and the grand-daddy of all jackasses is leading the way. Oh, and only a true jackass would threadjack a happy thanksgiving thread (the .400 forum thread) just to be a complete moron to stir up more crap. Just why is he back on this board anyway? __________________ The EagleFan YouTube Channel - Reactions Soarin' & Scratchin' YouTube Channel - We react to music, videos, TV, we talk, we are planning some field trips Soarin' & Soothin' - Meditation, Relaxation, and Sleep Aid; mental health is important

11-27-2003, 10:05 PM	#146
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Thanks for shutting down KippyBot for the night... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

11-27-2003, 10:41 PM	#150
druez Banned Join Date: Nov 2003	rexallllsc People above said that EA Sports doesn't make games with bugs in it. I'm simply refuting that point. EA sports is supposed to be a sim. "if its in the game its in the game" ring a bell? For that matter, No game plays in terms of gameplay more like real football then madden. So, I don't get your point.

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