Best. Pro. Team. Ever. (an all-time pro football tournament) - Page 3

Wolfpack · 06-04-2004, 05:09 PM

1980 to 1989:

1952 Pittsburgh vs. 1980 Oakland
*Game 1 (Oakland -19): Oakland is a solid favorite in this series and it showed early in this opening game as the Raiders jumped to a 13-0 lead after the first quarter. The Steelers were game, trying to fight back and stay in it, but the Raiders kept them at arm's length the rest of the contest. Oakland wins game one 37-20, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Oakland -11): The return game in Pittsburgh saw the Steelers continue to put up a solid effort against the better team. They lead 7-6 after one, but wound up trailing 14-10 at the half. The Raiders extended the lead to 21-10 by the fourth quarter. The Steelers finally got going again and mounted a charge that drew them back even at 21, but the Raiders got one more touchdown to retake the lead and then held off further attempts by the Steelers to take the game and series. Oakland wins game two 28-21, wins the series 2-0.

1981 Chicago vs. 1981 San Francisco
*Game 1 (San Francisco -14): A rare clash of teams from the same year. The Niners then, as they were for much of the 1980s, were better than the Bears. The series opener seemed to bear this out. The Bear defense was solid, but the offense was horrid. San Francisco wasn't much better, but it was more than enough in this game. Still, the Niner fans were squirming a bit as they were only up 10-0 at the start of the fourth, but San Francisco put up 10 points to put the game out of reach. San Francisco wins game one 20-3, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (San Francisco -6): The Bears made a better showing at home. Neither team scored until San Francisco got a touchdown in the second to lead 7-0 at the half. Chicago tied it up in the third and it remained deadlocked until the 49ers got another touchdown to break it in the fourth and then surged to a 21-7 lead with another touchdown. The Bears responded by going for it on fourth down on the next drive and making it, and then pushing on to the end zone for a 21-14 deficit. But, they couldn't get in the end zone again and the Niners complete the sweep. San Francisco wins game two 21-14, wins the series 2-0.

2003 Baltimore Ravens vs. 1982 Washington
*Game 1 (Ravens -3): The 1982 Redskins, winners of that strike-shortened year, seemed to draw the short stick of the 1980s Super Bowl winners in having to take on the 2003 Ravens. But, they seemed to relish their rare role as underdogs in the opener at RFK. The Redskins and Ravens were tied 7-all after one. Washington tacked on field goals during the middle two quarters to lead 13-7 going to the fourth. In the fourth, the Ravens finally busted into the end zone again to take a one-point lead. But, the Redskins came back with a touchdown of their own and then got the two-point conversion to push their lead to 7. The Redskin defense played solidly down the stretch and turned away any Raven attempts to tie the game and Washington claims the win in game one. Washington wins game one 21-14, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Baltimore -11): These two teams love smashmouth defense and smashmouth football and there was plenty of it in this one. The Ravens managed the only points of the first quarter on a field goal and then got a touchdown after Washington tied it up in the second to lead 10-3 at the half. Baltimore punched in one more time in the third to extend the lead to 14. Washington booted a pair of field goals to cut the lead to 8, but could never get through the wall the Ravens presented and lost the game. Baltimore Ravens win game two 17-9, series tied 1-1.

1998 Pittsburgh vs. 1983 LA Raiders
*Game 1 (LA Raiders -5): A close series was expected between these long-time foes, with each favored at home. The Raiders took an early 7-3 lead, but Pittsburgh then surged ahead on 10 unanswered points to lead at the half 13-7. LA got a touchdown in the third to retake the lead and made it stand through the fourth, until the Steelers put together one last drive. The Steelers marched down field and reached the Raider 3. There they settled for an easy 20-yarder as time expired to upset the Raiders on the road. Pittsburgh wins game one 16-14, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Pittsburgh -3): It's deja vu all over again. The Raiders held a 14-7 halftime lead in this contest, only to watch the Steelers boot field goals to cut the lead to 14-13 late in the fourth quarter. Sound familiar? This time the Steelers didn't get to the 3-yard line, but they did get to the 17 and converted yet one more field goal to send the crowd home happy at Three Rivers. Pittsburgh wins game two 16-14, wins the series 2-0.

1986 LA Raiders vs. 1984 San Francisco
*Game 1 (San Francisco -18): The first of the truly great Niners teams of the mid- to late-80s draws a fairly easy mark in their playoff opener. The 49ers take apart the Raiders with precision during the first game of the series, allowing only a field goal against while dominating the game. San Francisco wins game one 30-3, lead the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (San Francisco -10): LA came out at home determined to prove that they weren't as easy to beat as it seemed in game one. To that end, they came out smoking and had the Niners reeling by halftime, 24-7. But, the Niners are a great team and they didn't buckle. They put up 16 in the third and cut the lead to 31-23. However, the Raider defense stood strong in the fourth and held San Francisco to a field goal the rest of the way and the Raiders pull the upset. LA Raiders win game two 31-26, series tied 1-1.

1996 Miami vs. 1985 Chicago
*Game 1 (Chicago -13): The 1996 Dolphins drew the unenviable task of facing one of the best defenses in league history. Were they fazed? Nah. Not at all. The 1985 Bears lost only once, to Miami. They seem to have developed a mental block with the franchise, then, as the Bears defense could not stop the Miami offense. A 7-7 tie became a 14-10 halftime lead for the Dolphins. In the second, the Bear offense could not score, putting pressure on the Bear defense to hold up the Dolphins. They couldn't as the Dolphins put up two more touchdowns and won in stunning fashion. Miami wins game one 28-10, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Chicago -5): The Bears faced a difficult task in going to Pro Player Stadium. They responded well. Chicago got the first score on a touchdown in the first quarter, a score that remained until halftime. The third quarter featured fireworks as the teams traded touchdowns the entire period, leaving the Bears up 21-14. But, the Dolphin offense sputtered in the fourth, while the Bear offense continued to hum. Two touchdowns later, it was game over. Chicago wins game two 35-14, series tied 1-1.

1986 Indianapolis vs. 1986 New York Giants
*Game 1 (NY Giants -22): The Giants are heavy favorites in this series and put the hammer to the Colts early and often. By halftime, the Giants were up 20-0 and they rolled to the win from there. NY Giants win game one 37-13, lead the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (NY Giants -14): The Colts put up a better fight at the Hoosier Dome. The game was tied at 7 after one and the Giants only lead 13-10 at the half. But, the Colts couldn't keep it up anymore as the Giants put up 17 in the third against a Colt touchdown and shut them down the rest of the way to sweep the series. NY Giants win game two 30-17, win the series 2-0.

1993 Cincinnati vs. 1987 Washington
*Game 1 (Washington -12): Washington was expected to take both game in the series, but the Bengals were not going to go easily. Game one in DC saw the Bengals deliver the first punches as they went ahead 10-3 at the half. But, slowly, methodically, the Redskins marched into the lead. A field goal in the third, ten points in the fourth, and a defense that didn't give an inch, much less a point the rest of the way, spelled doom for Cincinnati. Washington wins game one 16-10, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Washington -4): Game two at Riverfront was supposed to be the closer of the two. For the first quarter, anyway, it seemed true, as the Bengals lead 3-0. But, the Redskins erupted for three touchdowns in a second quarter scorefest (the Bengals put up 10 themselves) to surge to a 21-13 lead. The defenses regained control of the game in the third as neither team scored, but Washington added a pair of field goals to put the game away in the fourth. Washington wins game two 27-13, wins the series 2-0.

1993 Cleveland vs. 1988 San Francisco
*Game 1 (San Francisco -5): The Niners figured to have some difficulty with Cleveland, but it never materialized in game one. The Browns did get two first quarter field goals to lead 6-0, but it was all Niners after that. 14 in the second and 10 each in the third and fourth resulted in a rout as the Browns could only manage two more field goals in the third quarter. San Francisco wins game one 34-12, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Cleveland -3): Cleveland again seized the lead 7-0 after the first quarter. San Francisco again raced ahead in the second to lead 10-7 at the half. This time, the Browns didn't let them get away. A scoreless third gave way to traded touchdowns in the fourth. San Francisco then added one more field goal and then then defense stopped the Bengals one last time to seal the win. San Francisco wins game two 20-14, wins the series 2-0.

1988 New York Giants vs. 1989 San Francisco
*Game 1 (San Francisco -15): The 1989 Niner team ranks up there with the 1984 team in franchise history as one of the best. They showed it in the series opener by flattening the Giants with ease. They got 17 in the first and another 7 in the second to lead 24-0 at the half and eased to a big win. San Francisco wins game one 31-8, leads the series 1-0.

*Game 2 (San Francisco -7): It wasn't nearly so easy at the Meadowlands. The Giants finally had the lead at 7-6 after scoring a touchdown in the first quarter. They made it stick until halftime, but after that the Niners did what was necessary to win the game. A field goal in the third got them in front and then a touchdown in the fourth salted the game away. San Francisco wins game two 16-7, wins the series 2-0.

JeeberD · 06-04-2004, 05:14 PM

Bah, San Fran needs to lose more often...

Vince · 06-05-2004, 01:26 AM

NO. Damn you texas people...

EDIT - I would be amazingly disappointed if the 1984 Niner team (probably my favorite of all time) was the only one that didn't make it out of the 80s championship teams.

sterlingice · 06-05-2004, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

NO. Damn you texas people...

EDIT - I would be amazingly disappointed if the 1984 Niner team (probably my favorite of all time) was the only one that didn't make it out of the 80s championship teams.

Let it be known that unless they are playing the Oilers, I feel no ill will towards the 49ers. In fact, if they're playing the Cowboys, more power to 'em.

SI

JeeberD · 06-05-2004, 04:47 PM

Ooooh...them's some serious fightin' words, SI.

Wolfpack · 06-07-2004, 01:56 PM

Okay, time to finish the group...1990 to 1999:

1988 Cleveland vs. 1990 New York Giants
*Game 1 (Giants -14): The second Giants championship team was a solid favorite in this series, but the Browns begged to differ. The Browns scored the game's first 10 points and put the Giants back on their heels a bit. But, the Giants re-asserted themselves. They scored a TD towards the end of the first half to cut the lead to 10-7. They then struck for another touchdown in the third to take the lead. After that, the defense took over and kept the Browns from threatening the rest of the way. NY Giants win game one 14-10, lead series 1-0.

*Game 2 (NY Giants -6): Game two in Cleveland can be summed up in one word: defense. Neither team broke the plane of the end zone the entire contest. Pretty much all the scoring was done with three field goals in the first quarter, two by the Giants and one by the Browns. The Giants added another field goal in the fourth that gave their defense the needed breathing room to secure the win. NY Giants win game two 9-3, win the series 2-0.

2003 Seattle vs. 1991 Washington
*Game 1 (Washington -12): Seattle and Washington staged a spectacular game at RFK in the series opener. Washington played the favorite role well early, threatening to turn the game into a rout with a 27-7 halftime advantage. But, the Seahawks came out on fire in the second half. They struck for two third quarter touchdowns while holding the Redskins to a field goal to cut the lead to 30-21. Seattle then scored another touchdown to cut the lead to just two midway into the fourth. With under two minutes left, the Seahawks converted a field goal from 40 yards to take the lead and stun the RFK crowd. But, the Redskins had one more chance. They made the most of it, getting to the Seattle 39 and then lining up for a field goal with just seconds left. Snap, hold, kick is away...GOOD! Washington wins game one! Washington wins game one 33-31, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Washington - 4): In Seattle, the Seahawks had to bounce back from giving everything they had to win a game they weren't supposed to. They did admirably. After trading touchdowns in the first, the Seahawks managed to answer a Redskin touchdown with two from their offense to take a 21-14 halftime lead. But, this time, it was their turn to sputter at home, as the Redskin defense shut them out the rest of the way. Washington's offense, meanwhile, tied the game at 21 in the third and then put up 10 more in the fourth to secure the game and the series. Washington wins game two 31-21, wins the series 2-0.

1976 San Francisco vs. 1992 Dallas
*Game 1 (Dallas -18): The heavily favored Cowboys were expected to win easily at home, and they didn't disappoint, though the Niners didn't go away. San Francisco put up a good fight, but the 'Boys were just too much. Dallas lead 10-7 after one and increased the lead to 24-14 by halftime. The Niners managed to record a safety in the third, but the Cowboys still increased their lead with a touchdown to lead 31-16. San Francisco put up a touchdown in the fourth and added a two-point conversion to cut the lead to 31-24, but the Cowboys then put the game away with 10 unanswered points. Dallas wins game one 41-24, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Dallas -10): The series moved to windy Candlestick for the second game and it's a game the Cowboys and their fans would rather forget. San Francisco pushed them from the start again as they took early 3-0 and 10-3 leads. The Cowboys would even it up with a touchdown near halftime. The 49ers took a lead on a field goal early in the third, but Dallas answered with a touchdown to take the lead for the first time. The Niners would add another field goal before the end of the quarter to make it a 17-16 game heading to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, San Francisco punched in a touchdown to regain the lead and went for two to make it 7 points, but came away empty. But, Dallas could not crack the Niner defense the entire quarter and meekly fell to defeat. San Francisco wins game two 22-17, series tied 1-1.

1990 Detroit vs. 1993 Dallas
*Game 1 (Dallas -18): This edition of the Cowboys also drew a fairly week opponent to start. Unlike the 1992 team, this group seems intent on making a point. Game one was a laugher in Big D as the Cowboys raced to a 14-0 lead in the first and ended up leading 31-3 at the half. After that, they put it on cruise control and coasted to the win. Dallas wins game one 45-10, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Dallas -10): Back at the Silverdome, the Cowboys looked to dispose of the Lions and move on with ease. Problem was, the Lions weren't playing along. The teams matched scoring chances in the first half, the net result being a 17-17 game at the half. In the third, the Lion faithful went nuts as their team answered a Dallas TD with 10 straight points to close the third quarter and took a 27-24 lead into the fourth. The fourth was a tense duel as defenses fought hard to keep offenses in check. The break finally came when Dallas stood at their own 45 at the two minute warning. Ten seconds and fifty-five yards later, Dallas was in the end zone on a beautiful touchdown bomb. Detroit tried to rally, but couldn't and turned it over on downs, giving Dallas the win and the series. Dallas wins game two 31-27, wins series 2-0.

1969 Baltimore Colts vs. 1994 San Francisco
*Game 1 (San Francisco -25): This series figured to get ugly for the Colts as the Niners were vastly superior. In game one, the Niners did everything to make sure of it. They jumped ahead 10-0 after one and 17-3 at the half. After that, it actually did get ugly. The Niners outscored the Colts 31-7 in the second half to win easily. San Francisco wins game one 48-10, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (San Francisco -17): Game two in Baltimore figured to be a little more difficult for the 49ers, but nothing really serious. Baltimore came out swinging, though, scoring a touchdown for the only points of the first quarter to lead 7-0. San Francisco rallied to take a 10-7 lead, but the Colts managed a field goal to end the half to tie it up. In the second half, the Niners were relentless, grinding down the Colts. They took the lead for good in the third and lead 20-17 going to the fourth quarter. They added 10 insurance points after that to secure the game and series. San Francisco wins game two 30-17, wins series 2-0.

1975 Washington vs. 1995 Dallas
*Game 1 (Dallas -16): Another matchup between the hated rivals. Dallas was supposed to be the heavy favorite, but didn't play like it at home, at least to start. The fans at Texas Stadium had to be scratching their heads after seeing their team end up trailing 10-3 at halftime. But, whatever coach was telling 'em at the half, they better bottle it and sell it because it was good stuff. The Dallas offense came out smoking, scoring two touchdowns in the third and then throwing in another 10 in the fourth. Meanwhile, the defense was ferocious, shutting down and shutting out the Redskins the entire half. Dallas wins game one 27-10, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Dallas -8): Dallas shouldn't have required much to get revved up about game two at RFK, facing a rival and trying to do better than the last game against them. Turns out Washington didn't need much firing up either, and both teams played great in the first half. They answered each other score for score until the scoreboard at halftime read 17-17. After the half, both defenses asserted themselves. Neither team scratched in the third. In the fourth, Dallas finally cracked the Redskin defense for a touchdown. Dallas's defense, meanwhile, didn't crack and continued to keep the Redskins out. A last attempt to tie died on an incompletion and Dallas had completed the sweep. Dallas wins game two 24-17, wins series 2-0.

1974 Los Angeles Rams vs. 1996 Green Bay
*Game 1 (Green Bay -24): There are times when a great team plays down to their competition and if they're caught napping, look out. Green Bay was caught napping early on in this one as the Rams struck twice in the first half to lead 14-7 at the half. The Packers seemed to wake up at halftime, tying the game in the third and then getting two touchdowns in the fourth, while the defense finally asserted itself and denied the Rams any attempt at getting things going on offense to secure the game one victory. Green Bay wins game one 28-14, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Green Bay -16): The Pack seemed quite determined to not let the Rams get them down again as they started off well in game two, scoring the game's first 17 points. The Rams did try to get back into it with a touchdown in the second to make it 17-7 at the half, but for the second straight game, they were shut out after halftime. Green Bay, meanwhile, poured it on and won going away. Green Bay wins game two 40-7, wins series 2-0.

1972 Chicago vs. 1997 Denver
*Game 1 (Denver -28): Game one at Mile High wasn't terribly flashy for the Broncos, but they went about their business just the same. Their defense pitched a shutout for three quarters while the offense put up 20 points in the same time frame. The Bears finally broke through in the fourth, but they only managed a pair of field goals, which were countered by a Denver touchdown to complete the game. Denver wins game one 27-6, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Denver -20): If you're a Bears fan, stop now. Don't read any more. Go right on to the next game. If you are a Broncos fan, then by all means enjoy what you are going to see next. Denver wins game two 50-0, wins series 2-0.

1979 Philadelphia vs. 1998 Denver
*Game 1 (Denver -22): The second Broncos championship team played like the first team did in their first game. Solid, unwavering, dominating. They did start with a bang by striking for touchdowns on their first two possessions and then just seemed content to put their hand on the smaller guy's head and just let him flail away for the rest of the game. Denver wins game one 31-15, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Denver -14): Game two saw the Broncos repeat the same beatdown from game one. They scored three touchdowns in the first half that effectively put the game away as the defense brought the lumber and shut out the Eagles for the first thirty minutes. Philly did manage to show some life with a touchdown in the third, but Denver refused to give anything else up and took the game and series comfortably. Denver wins game two 28-7, wins series 2-0.

1981 Buffalo vs. 1999 St. Louis Rams
*Game 1 (Rams -26): One of the greatest offenses of all time finally took the field at the TransWorld Dome in St. Louis. The Bills gave it their all to try to keep up. They seemed to for one quarter as the Rams only lead 13-7 at the end of the first. The Rams extended the lead to 20-7 at the half and then scored at will in the third before shutting things down in the fourth to win easily. Still, you get the feeling they could have done better somehow. St. Louis Rams win game one 37-14, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Rams -18): The series moves to Buffalo, where the Bills and the more adverse conditions of the outdoors in western New York seemed to slow down the Rams quite a bit. The teams matched touchdowns in the first, but that was it for first half scoring. The Rams finally got things in gear in the third, sandwiching a Bills touchdown with two of their own to assert some control of the game going to the fourth quarter. St. Louis then put up another 10 points in the fourth to effectively put the game out of reach. St. Louis Rams win game two 31-21, win series 2-0.

Wolfpack · 06-07-2004, 02:48 PM

Finally...2000 to 2003:

1991 New England vs. 2000 Baltimore Ravens
*Game 1 (Ravens -24): The 2000 Ravens had one of the best defenses ever, but their offense was pedestrian at best. They draw a bad New England team in this round, so that offense may not be an issue. The Ravens start well, getting 10 in the first quarter, but the Patriots seem to be moving the ball decently, though they only have a pair of field goals to show for it. The next two quarters move by in a blur as neither team's offense can move the ball against the opposing defense. In the fourth, the Patriots put up a field goal, the Ravens answer with one of their own, and then the Patriots get yet another field goal to trail 13-12. The crowd at PSINet Stadium is getting antsy. The Patriots get the ball back one last time, trying to get into field goal range. They reach the Raven 30 and then it happens. The great Raven defense breaks down on a pass play and the Patriots strike for a touchdown, stunning the crowd to silence. There is not enough time to get a response from the Ravens and the Patriots come out winners. New England wins game one 19-13, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Ravens -16): So much for thinking the offense wasn't going to be an issue for Baltimore. The Ravens are up against it and have to travel to Foxboro to win and avoid the embarrassment of being swept out. Starting out, it looks like the offense and defense finally get their acts together. By halftime the Ravens are comfortably ahead 17-0. The Ravens then add another touchdown to make it 24-0. New England makes an effort as the Ravens seem to pack it in after that, getting a pair of touchdowns to close the gap, but it's too little, too late. Baltimore Ravens win game two, series tied 1-1.

1981 Los Angeles Rams vs. 2001 New England
*Game 1 (New England -19): An initially scoreless game gives way to two second quarter touchdowns by the Patriots to give them a 14-0 halftime lead. The Rams show some life in the third by putting up a touchdown to cut it to 14-7, but after that, it's a New England romp. The Patriots score the last 24 points of the game to win game one comfortably. New England wins game one 38-7, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (New England -11): In LA, the Rams make a much better showing for a half, as they battle the Patriots to a near standstill at 13-10. But as in the first game, the second half belongs to New England. The Patriots run off 23 consecutive points to put the game away and render a Rams TD in the fourth moot. New England wins game two 36-17, wins series 2-0.

1999 Baltimore Ravens vs. 2002 Tampa Bay
*Game 1 (Tampa Bay -12): A clash of great defenses and weak offenses in this series. Fortunately for the Buccs, the Ravens are a year away from their great defense, so their offense will be able to have a chance. As expected, it's a slugfest in the first half of game one as Tampa Bay gets the first points on a touchdown, but after that it's field goals being posted to the scoreboard. This results in a 13-3 halftime lead for the Buccs. With the defense they had that year, this is more than enough points. Neither team scores in the third and when Baltimore threatens to make a game of it in the fourth with a touchdown, their defense breaks down more and gives up 10 points to hand Tampa the win. Tampa Bay wins game one 23-10, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (Tampa Bay -4): Just because these teams feature great defenses doesn't mean they'll have unexciting games. Game two bore this out as a tense contest wasn't settled until the final gun. It looked good for the Buccaneers early as they scored the first 10 points, but Baltimore closed the gap with a touchdown late in the first half to make it 10-7 at halftime. Tampa extended the lead to 13-7 with a field goal, but the Ravens sent the home crowd into a frenzy with a touchdown to take a 14-13 lead, which they would keep going to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, Tampa struck for a touchdown to make it 19-14. They went for two to go up by 7, but failed. Baltimore answered back with a touchdown of their own to retake the lead. They, too, went for two to make it a field goal advantage, but they also failed. Tampa Bay had one last chance. They drove into Baltimore territory, but not very far and were forced to take a 49-yard attempt for the lead. Snap, hold, it's up...it's good! It's good! Tampa Bay has the lead! Baltimore gets one more chance, but the offense turns it over on downs as they Buccaneer defense keeps them in their end of the field. The Buccaneers then run out the clock and take the game and series. The 1999 Ravens are the first Ravens team to get bounced from the tournament. Tampa Bay wins game two 22-20, wins series 2-0.

1989 Buffalo vs. 2003 New England
*Game 1 (New England -12): The most recent champion in the tournament draws a fairly tough task in a potent Buffalo Bills team from 1989. The teams traded touchdowns in the first quarter but then the Patriots ran rampant in the second quarter, scoring 17 unanswered points and seemed to have the game under control by halftime. But, the Bills didn't fold. They got one touchdown back in the third and then got another one early in the fourth. Suddenly, it was 24-21. The Patriots, however, didn't back down. They put up a touchdown in response and their defense finally made the stops needed to give the Patriots the series opening win. New England wins game one 31-21, leads series 1-0.

*Game 2 (New England -4): The Bills and Patriots staged a great contest at Rich Stadium. As in game one, the teams exchanged touchdowns in the first. As in game one, 17 points were scored in the second. This time, however, New England didn't score all the points. Buffalo scored 10 of the 17 points to take a 17-14 lead at the half. Neither team could crack the opposing defense in the third, leaving the Bills in front by three. In the fourth, the Patriots put up a touchdown, but the Bills answered with 10 points of their own to take a six point lead. Late game situation, trailing by six points, New England's been here, handled it a lot of times before. Again, they work their last minute magic. They march down the field and are within striking distance of the end zone with time winding down. First down...incomplete! Second down...oh, just missed! Third down...threw it away. Fourth down...drops back...to the end zone! Knocked away! Knocked away and the Bills will win! Buffalo wins game two 27-21, series tied 1-1.

Wolfpack · 06-07-2004, 03:18 PM

So, here's the official tote board after the first two games of each series:

Code:

Atlanta Falcons 1981		2-0	Washington Redskins 1937 (L)
New Orleans Saints 1975		1-1	New York Giants 1938 (L)
Miami Dolphins 1986		1-1	Green Bay Packers 1939 (L)
Miami Dolphins 1990 (WC)	2-0	Chicago Bears 1940 (L)
San Francisco 49ers 1982	1-1	Chicago Bears 1941 (L)
Seattle Seahawks 1986		2-0	Washington Redskins 1942 (L)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1961	1-1	Chicago Bears 1946 (L)
Los Angeles Raiders 1991 (WC)	2-0	Chicago Cardinals 1947 (L)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980	2-0	Philadelphia Eagles 1948 (L)
Indianapolis Colts 2001		1-1	Philadelphia Eagles 1949 (L)
Houston Oilers 1988 (WC)	2-0	Cleveland Browns 1950 (L)
Arizona Cardinals 1997		2-0	Los Angeles Rams 1951 (L)
Houston Oilers 1987 (WC)	1-1	Detroit Lions 1952 (L)
San Francisco 49ers 1966	1-1	Detroit Lions 1953 (L)
Los Angeles Raiders 1988	1-1	Cleveland Browns 1954 (L)
Chicago Bears 1990 (D)		2-0	Cleveland Browns 1955 (L)
New England Patriots 1988	1-1	New York Giants 1956 (L)
Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (WC)	2-0	Detroit Lions 1957 (L)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1948	0-2	Baltimore Colts 1958 (L)
Denver Broncos 1981		1-1	Baltimore Colts 1959 (L)
Indianapolis Colts 2000 (WC)	2-0	Philadelphia Eagles 1960 (L)
Los Angeles Raiders 1990 (D)	1-1	Green Bay Packers 1961 (L)
Denver Broncos 1966		0-2	Green Bay Packers 1962 (L)
New York Giants 1971		0-2	Chicago Bears 1963 (L)
New England Patriots 1989	2-0	Cleveland Browns 1964 (L)
Tennessee Titans 2003 (WC)	2-0	Green Bay Packers 1965 (L)
Indianapolis Colts 2002 (WC)	1-1	Green Bay Packers 1966 (SB)
Kansas City Chiefs 1994	(WC)	2-0	Green Bay Packers 1967 (SB)
Green Bay Packers 1983		2-0	New York Jets 1968 (SB)
Dallas Cowboys 1974		0-2	Kansas City Chiefs 1969 (SB)
Dallas Cowboys 1998 (D)		2-0	Baltimore Colts 1970 (SB)
Miami Dolphins 2000 (D)		2-0	Dallas Cowboys 1971 (SB)
Philadelphia Eagles 1998	0-2	Miami Dolphins 1972 (SB)
Carolina Panthers 2003 (C)	2-0	Miami Dolphins 1973 (SB)
Los Angeles Rams 1954		0-2	Pittsburgh Steelers 1974 (SB)
Houston Oilers 1984		0-2	Pittsburgh Steelers 1975 (SB)
Buffalo Bills 1977		0-2	Oakland Raiders 1976 (SB)
Baltimore Colts 1981		0-2	Dallas Cowboys 1977 (SB)
Denver Broncos 1976		0-2	Pittsburgh Steelers 1978 (SB)
San Diego Chargers 1986		1-1	Pittsburgh Steelers 1979 (SB)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1952	0-2	Oakland Raiders 1980 (SB)
Chicago Bears 1981		0-2	San Francisco 49ers 1981 (SB)
Baltimore Ravens 2003 (WC)	1-1	Washington Redskins 1982 (SB)
Pittsburgh Steelers 1998	2-0	Los Angeles Raiders 1983 (SB)
Los Angeles Raiders 1986	1-1	San Francisco 49ers 1984 (SB)
Miami Dolphins 1996		1-1	Chicago Bears 1985 (SB)
Indianapolis Colts 1986		0-2	New York Giants 1986 (SB)
Cincinnati Bengals 1993		0-2	Washington Redskins 1987 (SB)
Cleveland Browns 1993		0-2	San Francisco 49ers 1988 (SB)
New York Giants 1988		0-2	San Francisco 49ers 1989 (SB)
Cleveland Browns 1988 (WC)	0-2	New York Giants 1990 (SB)
Seattle Seahawks 2003 (WC)	0-2	Washington Redskins 1991 (SB)
San Francisco 49ers 1976	1-1	Dallas Cowboys 1992 (SB)
Detroit Lions 1990		0-2	Dallas Cowboys 1993 (SB)
Baltimore Colts 1969		0-2	San Francisco 49ers 1994 (SB)
Washington Redskins 1975	0-2	Dallas Cowboys 1995 (SB)
Los Angeles Rams 1974 (D)	0-2	Green Bay Packers 1996 (SB)
Chicago Bears 1972		0-2	Denver Broncos 1997 (SB)
Philadelphia Eagles 1979 (WC)	0-2	Denver Broncos 1998 (SB)
Buffalo Bills 1981 (WC)		0-2	St. Louis Rams 1999 (SB)
New England Patriots 1991	1-1	Baltimore Ravens 2000 (SB)
Los Angeles Rams 1981		0-2	New England Patriots 2001 (SB)
Baltimore Ravens 1999		0-2	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002 (SB)
Buffalo Bills 1989 (D)		1-1	New England Patriots 2003 (SB)

There should be plenty of intrigue in the deciding games. Several teams that are heavy favorites have not done what they should have and will have some pressure to win their series finales or be embarrassed. Overall, 19 pairings are going to a third game. I'll play them out and have the results posted ASAP. After that, I'll post the list of the 512 teams that are moving on to round three.

JeeberD · 06-07-2004, 03:21 PM

If the '92 Cowboys lose to those crappy Niners...I'll be forced to be very embarrased. Or something...

sterlingice · 06-07-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

If the '92 Cowboys lose to those crappy Niners...I'll be forced to be very embarrased. Or something...

Why? You weren't playing for them. Or were they voilating child labor laws, too

(like shooting fish in a barrel)

SI

Wolfpack · 06-07-2004, 04:15 PM

Readers:

I have just uncovered a very bad bug in my code. I have discovered I have been referencing the wrong number when it comes to close game checks. I thought something was odd when '03 New England failed to score a touchdown against '89 Buffalo in spite of a +13 CGM. Theoretically, that should have guaranteed at least a chance at a touchdown, but the result was a turnover on downs. I discovered I was referencing the wrong number in the code. Even so, it meant that NE's CGF was being inputted at +16 rather than +13, which meant they were actually getting short shrift (though it should be noted that the rules call for a modifier no greater than 12 anyway, so that's to be fixed as well). I discovered that I have an error in the code for games where the scoring margin is 4 to 8 points because no matter what happened, the code in this instance was passing it to the "turned the ball over on downs" ending. So, I have to fix that.

I am somewhat uncertain whether I should go back and replay games that have this error in them (there are 161 in the first two games of the second round). I have thought that since the error was consistent for all games that the results should stand, but part of me feels that leaving things as they are means that there could be teams advancing that might not have had the error not occurred, thus diminishing the tournament somewhat.

What do you guys think?

Wolfpack · 06-07-2004, 04:58 PM

I've done the fixes and played out some test games. I used the '03 Pats-'89 Bills as my testbed and ran 19 games between them (forgot to drag in Excel to 20 rows). I discovered that the Patriots won the series 15-4, but more importantly, used their corrected CGM of +13 to win four games they were trailing by 4 to 8 points in, which means without it, the series would have been 11-8.

One more testbed, to torture the Cowboys fans just a little, I ran the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers through the same test (this time with 20 matchups) and the Cowboys went 19-1. Dallas picked up a couple of wins through the corrected code they might not have gotten.

Even so, bear in mind that this bug did not affect that series in terms of who won. The Oilers actually lost a chance in the first game of the series when they were down 17-10. The remaining games were decided by a field goal or less, so they wouldn't have been affected by the bug.

Something to consider.

JeeberD · 06-07-2004, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

One more testbed, to torture the Cowboys fans just a little, I ran the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers through the same test (this time with 20 matchups) and the Cowboys went 19-1. Dallas picked up a couple of wins through the corrected code they might not have gotten.

Replay. NOW!

Wolfpack · 06-08-2004, 10:05 AM

After further deliberation, I have decided to go back and correct all the games that were affected for (and this is the important bit) series where a winner might have been incorrectly determined. What this means is I won't redo the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers first game because that did not affect who won the series (the Oilers lost the game but won the series). This includes first round games as well. I'm not going to replay the games in their entirety, just re-do the close game scenarios at the end. With luck, most of them will result in no scores to simplify my life and not alter too many outcomes. Should there be a change of winners from the first round, then they will slot into the original winner's pairing in the second round and that series will be redone entirely (of course excepting any situation where a franchise ends up with two in the same pairing, in which case I'll swap out against another flip-flop winner, which hopefully I'll have more than one of if it ever happens).

If a change does occur, I'll note it in the following posts and correct it in earlier posts, but I won't get into much specifics. This should delay the tournament going forward for a little bit, but hopefully not very long. Any other scores and series results not affected by this bug will not change.

Wolfpack · 06-08-2004, 11:09 AM

Just a brief follow-up. I am chunking through the first round again and thus far have had five sweeps change over to splits in the correction process, so there could be some upheaval coming. Splendid.

Wolfpack · 06-08-2004, 04:13 PM

Further follow-up:

I have come to realize the error is graver than previously thought since the CGF value rather than the CGM value was used in ANY close game situation. The upshot of this is that there may be more teams that advanced that shouldn't have because instead of getting a negative CGM which reduces a team's chance of winning, they got a positive CGF in place of it, which increases the chance of winning. I came to realize this when I was re-examining the series between the 1976 49ers and the 1988 Packers in round one. The Niners won game three by virtue of having the Packers miss a 60-yard field goal attempt. In this instance, the Packers actually had a chance to win because they had their die roll on the Close Game chart increase by two (they rolled a 3 and modified it to a 5). In reality, because the Niners had a CGF of 5 and the Packers had a CGF of three, the Packers should have gotten a CGM of -3, which meant they weren't even supposed to get across midfield. True, in this instance the error in my code did not reverse a result, but it could have. There may be other instances of this elsewhere in my results that I haven't checked in detail, but I'm sure there are a number of them because I have found a ton of instances of the previously known 4-to-8-point close game bug in the first round alone. Most held to form, but 16 thus far have been altered to splits from sweeps and one series has been outright reversed.

As a result, I'm pondering starting the whole playoff over. At this point, I feel like the results are too potentially flawed to feel like I have a fair process going on.

If I start over, I'll start it in a new thread. The first round matchups remain the same, but the second round will be redrawn based on new results.

Ugh. I'm depressed now.

RealDeal · 06-08-2004, 09:54 PM

I say you should simply go forward with what you have so far. Almost all of the Super Bowl teams have advanced, and those are the key ones. Anything else you do is going to be confusing and kill momentum. If you had never told us this happened, we'd never been any wiser about it, and we still would enjoy the humongous tournament.

sterlingice · 06-08-2004, 10:05 PM

I'm indifferent. Either way works for me- I'll read it whichever you decide. But you've gotta do what makes you feel better. If you think it taints the results too much, restart. If you think it takes too much work and you might quit halfways through (the temptation is great on a large project like this), then just go with it. We're all good with the result even if there are too many Cowboys teams advancing through clearly crooked means

SI

Radii · 06-09-2004, 09:04 AM

i'm with the above posters. I'm enjoying the read regardless. If you feel like you need to start over, I'll gladly follow along again, but as SI said, the Cowboys will start losing next round and everyone will be happy, so no biggie

Wolfpack · 06-09-2004, 09:57 AM

Thanks for the input, guys.

SI, it's not that big a deal to restart. The games themselves are easy to run. Obviously, the work comes in typing up the reports (always is with dynasty reporting).

Until I saw the remarks made just now, I was going to actually go ahead and do a restart and this time employ seeding based on the team ratings. I'd re-seed each round rather than have a fixed bracket for the entire thing because trying to keep straight which seed should be playing which in the next round would be a PITA for 1492 teams, when I can just take a list of survivors sorted by seed and cut and paste in Excel.

But, with some sentiment to go forward, it's hard to back up and restart. The thing that I am having trouble with is just the fundamental fairness of the results. I am a very particular individual who craves accuracy and correctness and it just slays me that there are flawed results that will skew the outcome of the tournament. Yes, RealDeal, I could have withheld the information and no one would have noticed, but the thing of it is, I noticed. That is enough for me to put a halt to this for the moment. Again, I'm a guy who likes things to be as correct as possible and if I have a hand in screwing something up, I want to make amends for it, thus the need to tell everyone about it and having to decide whether going forward is the right thing to do from my perspective.

True enough, the tournament has generally weeded the right teams from the field thus far, but if I may go back to beat a dead horse yet again, I will use the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers to point out why I'm concerned about going forward.

This was game three's output:

Code:

R2-G3
Houston Oilers 1994(4/11/0/16/13/O/-8) at Dallas Cowboys 1978(15/5/8/12/22/L/8)
CG:  Houston Oilers 1994 converts a  44-yard field goal attempt!
OT:  Houston Oilers 1994 converts a  34-yard field goal attempt!
TEAM                                         1Q   2Q   3Q   4Q   CG   OT   Final
Houston Oilers 1994                           0    7    0    3    3    3     16
Dallas Cowboys 1978                           3    7    0    3    0    0     13
----------
Line:  Dallas Cowboys 1978 -9 (-12) *UPSET*
Current Records:
Houston Oilers 1994:  1-0
Dallas Cowboys 1978:  0-1

The numbers to note are bolded. The first bolded number is the team's determined close game factor rating for this matchup. The second one is the team's close game chart die roll modifier. The problem with the code was that I was using the first number, rather than the second number, to modify the close game die rolls.

In the first two games of the series, the mistake didn't come into play by happenstance, though the close game chart was consulted in both. In game one, Houston trailed 17-10 and got a "no chance to score" result, probably just as well since Houston's CGM for game one was -9, which means they couldn't have done worse had the correct number been used. In game two, Dallas needed a field goal to win. By coincidence, since Houston's CGF is zero, Dallas's CGF and CGM numbers would be the same, so the failure for Dallas to score the winning field goal would be unchanged by the mistake. But, game three shows where the problem comes up. Houston trails 13-10 at the end of the game. Instead of subtracting 8 from the die roll as the CGM number suggests, the Oilers don't subtract anything, the resulting check gives them a longish field goal attempt, and they make it to force overtime. Now, had the correct number been used, Houston wouldn't even have made it to field goal range, let alone tied the game with one. The error is compounded because it occurs again in the overtime period, which is played exclusively on the close game table. Houston again benefits from an unmodified roll to attempt a field goal and converts it to win. It's this sort of thing that gets my hackles up.

Again, I appreciate everyone's input into this matter. I'm going to have to think a little more on this before deciding what to do.

SplitPersonality1 · 06-09-2004, 10:44 AM

Go with your gut on this one. I, too, will be following along regardless of what you end up doing.

RealDeal · 06-09-2004, 11:08 AM

Can't you just fix the code going forward? What happened happened, but all games from now on will work properly?

sachmo71 · 06-09-2004, 11:41 AM

Sounds like you think the best idea is to start over. I'm with you either way.

Wolfpack · 06-09-2004, 12:33 PM

I thought about it some more over lunch and have now swung towards continuing on as it is. My reasoning is this: if I found yet another bug that interfered with correct results, then the precedent is set that I'd have to redo everything again. If I just go forward, then if there's a flaw, there's a flaw. Fix it and keep going. In a sense, this tournament becomes a beta-test of my program following that line of logic. At this point, I'm reasonably sure I've gotten everything debugged, but it is a computer program, so there are no total certainties. I may, after this run through, redo it again, this time with a corrected program and a different approach to matchups, but at least I'll have done it once to start with.

So, at this point, I'm now leaning towards going forward with a eye towards getting it done and then, if there is interest, replaying the tournament again later.

Sound good?

Radii · 06-09-2004, 01:05 PM

sounds good

JeeberD · 06-09-2004, 01:09 PM

Sounds good...

RealDeal · 06-09-2004, 01:48 PM

SplitPersonality1 · 06-09-2004, 02:18 PM

excellent. Now you have an excuse to run a second one of these.

sterlingice · 06-09-2004, 02:35 PM

Woo! Two tourneys for the price of one

SI

Wolfpack · 06-09-2004, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the encouragement and input, guys. I'm going to do a little tweaking (read: add some text to the output, no changes to the mechanics) and then I'll get the game 3's of group 8 posted either later today or tomorrow.

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 01:12 PM

Game three results:

1975 New Orleans Saints vs. 1938 New York Giants (Giants -2)
The game started fast, but then defense took over. The Saints drew first blood with a touchdown in the opening quarter, but the Giants answered back with a touchdown and a field goal. Neither team was able to scratch in the second, leaving the Giants ahead 10-7 at the half. In the third, the Giants put together a drive that netted them a touchdown and their defense continued to control the Saints. The insurance touchdown was enough to give the Giants the victory after a scoreless fourth quarter. New York Giants win game three 17-7, win series 2-1

1986 Miami vs. 1939 Green Bay (Miami -18)
The Packers were no match for the Dolphins in the rubber match. The Dolphins raced to a 17-7 lead after the first and then devastated Green Bay with 17 more points in the second while shutting the Pack out. After that, the fight was gone from the Packers and the Dolphins move on to the next round. Miami wins game three 40-14, wins series 2-1.

1982 San Francisco vs. 1941 Chicago (Chicago -2)
The Niners and Bears played a whale of a contest for their series decided. Early on, it looked like San Francisco was going to roll to a victory as they jumped ahead 13-7 after the first and then enlarged the lead by halftime to 27-14. But the Bears fought back. They put together an impressive third period where they dominated both sides of the ball and roared to a 31-30 lead going to the fourth. The fourth quarter was a taut affair the whole way through. San Francisco scored first with a touchdown and then converted a two-point play to make the lead 38-31. The Bears answered with a field goal to make it 38-34. San Francisco answered with another field goal to make it 41-34. Chicago then put together a stellar drive that netted them the game tying touchdown. The defense then rose up to stuff the Niners and got the ball back. Another solid drive lead to a field goal and the lead for the Bears. The Bear defense again played stellar as the Niners made one last try to tie the game, but could not move into field goal range and ultimately turned it over on downs, allowing the Bears to run out the clock and win the game. Chicago wins game three 44-41, wins series 2-1.

1961 Pittsburgh vs. 1946 Chicago (pick 'em)
A tough defensive battle was the story of this game as neither team allowed the other team any chance of getting any momentum on offense. Pittsburgh scored the only points of the first quarter on a field goal. Chicago answered with a field goal, the only points of the second quarter, leaving the teams tied at 3 at halftime. In the third, the Steelers finally cracked the Chicago defense for a touchdown while the Bears could only muster a field goal in response. The score remained 10-6 until late in the fourth quarter when Chicago made one last push. It succeeded as the Bears completed a 21-yard touchdown pass with little time left to take the lead and the win. Chicago wins game three 13-10, wins series 2-1.

2001 Indianapolis vs. 1949 Philadelphia (Colts -4)
Another great game three. The Colts seemed poised to blow out the Eagles early, running off the game's first 17 points before an Eagle touchdown near the two minute warning in the second cut the lead to 17-7 at the half. The Eagles built on that late momentum by striking for 17 points in the third against a Colt touchdown in response to tie the game at 24 going to the final stanza. In the fourth, both teams converted field goals to keep the game tied. Indianapolis had one last chance to win at the end, but their attempt from 46 yards was blocked. Overtime! On the first possession of OT, the Colts worked their way downfield again and this time lined up for a 34-yard attempt. Snap, hold, up and...good! Colts win! Indianapolis wins game three 30-27 (OT), wins series 2-1.

1987 Houston vs. 1952 Detroit (Houston -5)
The great games keep coming. In this series decided, the underdog Lions took the early 7-3 lead, but the Oilers got a touchdown in the second quarter to take the lead at halftime. In the third, the Oilers expanded their lead as they got a touchdown and a pair of field goals while the Lions only managed a touchdown, leaving Houston ahead 23-14 going to the fourth. The Lion defense rose to the occasion, shutting out the Oilers in the fourth. Meanwhile, the offense broke through for another touchdown to cut the lead to two. Detroit had one last chance, but could only get to the Houston 34 and had to try a 51-yard attempt. Snap, hold...blocked! It's blocked! Houston gets the ball back and Houston will win this game! Houston wins game three 23-21, wins series 2-1.

1966 San Francisco vs. 1953 Detroit (San Francisco -2)
The Lions were underdogs in this contest (albeit slight ones), but certain didn't play like it as they jumped on the Niners early and often. A 7-0 first quarter lead became 17-7 at the half and then 31-14 going to the fourth. With the game in hand, it seemed, the Lions relaxed. The Niners took advantage and hit for ten straight points to cut the lead to 31-24. But, the Lions found their footing in time and put up an insurance touchdown to seal the win. Detroit wins game two 38-24, wins series 2-1.

1988 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1954 Cleveland (pick 'em)
Another down-to-the-wire contest. Cleveland was relentless and methodical in this one, while the Raiders fought hard to stay in the game. Cleveland lead 10-7 after one, then stretched out to a 20-13 halftime lead. Another ten-spot against a touchdown in the third and the Browns lead by 10 at 30-20. The Raiders finally got control of the Browns offense in the fourth as they held Cleveland to a field goal while cutting into the lead with a touchdown. On their last drive at the end of the game, the Raiders pushed into Cleveland territory and got to the 28, but could not go further as the Browns hold after that to win the game. Cleveland wins game three 33-27, wins the series 2-1.

1988 New England vs. 1956 New York Giants (New England -6)
How about another great contest? Neither team scratched in the first, but both got touchdowns in the second, resulting in a 7-7 tie. In the third, the Giants took the lead with the quarter's only points on a touchdown, but the Patriots had a response in the fourth. The Giants then got another touchdown to take the lead again, leaving the Patriots trying to tie the game late. The Patriots did just that, scoring on a 27-yard touchdown pass and forced overtime. The Patriots got the ball first in OT and never gave it up, marching into field goal range and then won the game and series with a field goal from 36 yards. New England wins game three 24-21 (OT), wins series 2-1.

1981 Denver vs. 1959 Baltimore (Denver -1)
People are going to have heart attacks after this thread post as we have another close game to talk about. The Broncos and Colts traded touchdowns in the first. In the second, the Broncos took the lead on a field goal, but the Colts got a touchdown in response to take the lead at the half. No scoring in the third between the two sides except for a blown snap on a punt that resulted in a safety for Baltimore. In the fourth, the Broncos sandwiched a pair of field goals around a Colts touchdown which left them down 7 at the two minute warning. The Broncos had one last chance to tie, but they could only get to the Baltimore 27 before turning it over on downs. Baltimore wins game three 23-16, wins series 2-1.

1990 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1961 Green Bay (Raiders -6)
One of a few games that didn't go to the last possession. The Packers played like favorites despite being touchdown underdogs, racing to a 10-0 first quarter lead and then extending the lead to 20-7 at the half. The Raiders rallied in the third, cutting the lead to 20-17, but a crucial Green Bay touchdown staunched the bleeding and put the Packers back in control. A pair of field goals in the fourth sealed the win. Green Bay wins game three 33-17, wins series 2-1.

2002 Indianapolis vs. 1966 Green Bay (Indianapolis -4)
This wasn't much of a contest. For Green Bay fans, this is bad news. The Colts jumped on the Packers early, scoring two touchdowns on the first two possessions. They added a pair of field goals in the second quarter, leaving the Pack to try to dig out of a 20-0 hole at the half. Green Bay finally cracked the scoreboard with a touchdown in the third, but couldn't do anything else, really, as the Colts added one last touchdown for good measure in the fourth to complete the scoring. Indianapolis wins game three 27-7, wins series 2-1.

1986 San Diego vs. 1979 Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh -9)
The Steelers were solid favorites in this game, but then again, they were favored in both prior games and so shouldn't even have to be playing this game. The Steelers came out looking to try to put it away early, ringing up a touchdown the first time they touched the ball. But, the Charger defense stifled them after that, allowing the offense a chance to get going in the second quarter and tie the game with a touchdown. The Steelers did retake the lead on a field goal at the end of the half to make it 10-7. In the third, the teams traded touchdowns, which kept Pittsburgh in the lead by three going to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, the Steel Curtain continued to struggle stopping the Chargers as they struck for a touchdown to take the lead. Then San Diego broke through for a second touchdown. A three-point lead had suddenly become a 28-17 deficit. Pittsburgh rallied, punching in for a touchdown. They went for two to cut the lead to three, but missed. The defense finally got the crucial stop and the Steelers had their chance to win. Pittsburgh worked the ball into Charger territory. Ultimately, they reached the 19-yard line, where they lined up for one last chance at the end zone. Back to pass...looking...throws! Incomplete! Incomplete in the end zone! The Chargers win! San Diego wins game three 28-23, wins series 2-1.

2003 Baltimore Ravens vs. 1982 Washington (Ravens -7)
This one was close for three quarters, but turned into a romp in the fourth. The Ravens had the early lead, up 10-7 after the first quarter. The Redskins took the lead in the second quarter with a touchdown and kept it until halftime. Coming out for the third, the Ravens booted a field goal to cut the lead to one, but the Redskins answered with a touchdown to extend the lead to 21-13, which held until the fourth. In the fourth, the Raven defense finally broke down completely while the offense couldn't muster a response. Two Ravens field goals were answered each time by a Redskin touchdown, the net result leaving the game well out of reach for Baltimore and a Washington victory in the series. Washington wins game three 35-19, wins series 2-1.

1986 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1984 San Francisco (San Francisco -14)
San Francisco was a decided favorite, but as has been the case the entire series, their cross-bay rivals didn't care about that and proceeded to make life for Niners fans miserable. The Raiders got a field goal in the first and a touchdown in the second. Meanwhile, the vaunted San Francisco offense sputtered, wheezed, and stalled their way through the first half, never even threatening to score most of the time. As a result, the Raiders had a shocking 10-0 halftime lead. In the second, the Niner defense continued to work hard, giving their offense every chance to get untracked. The Raiders would fail to score in the third quarter. San Francisco, however, continued to struggle with the ball, putting up just a field goal to make it 10-3 going to the fourth. In the fourth, the Niners finally managed to solve some of their offensive problems, working to get a field goal and then finally breaking into the end zone for a touchdown that gave them the lead. The defense continued to play great, again keeping the Raiders from scoring. The Raiders had one last chance, but couldn't even get into field goal range with it, allowing the Niners to escape with the win. San Francisco wins game two 13-10, wins series 2-1.

1996 Miami vs. 1985 Chicago (Chicago -9)
The Bears were embarassed at home by Miami in game one before bouncing back to win at Pro Player Stadium in game two. Which team would show up for game three? In the early going, it looked like the team that won game two. A smothering defense combined with an offense that did just enough to put their team ahead netted ten first half points while keeping the Dolphins off the scoreboard. Miami would finally break through with a touchdown in the third to cut the lead to 10-7, but that would be all the scoring Miami would have on the day as the Bears added an insurance touchdown in the fourth to secure the game and series. Chicago wins game three 17-7, wins series 2-1.

1976 San Francisco vs. 1992 Dallas (Dallas -14)
The Super Bowl winners finally played like champs in the deciding game of this series. The Cowboys roared out to a 14-3 lead after the first quarter and then expanded it to 21-6 by halftime. The defense continued to play superbly in the second half as the Niners only managed two third quarter field goals, meaning San Francisco never reached the end zone on the afternoon. Meanwhile, the Cowboys put up a touchdown in each of the third and fourth quarters to win going away. Dallas wins game three 35-12, wins series 2-1.

1991 New England vs. 2000 Baltimore Ravens (Ravens -20)
Just like the 1992 Cowboys, the Ravens decided to answer the bell with enthusiasm in game three of their series. Baltimore gets a first quarter touchdown, then answers two New England field goals in the second quarter with two touchdowns and have a commanding 21-6 lead at the half, more than enough lead for their superb defense. New England manages another pair of field goals in the third, but the Ravens counteract with a touchdown to lead 28-12 going to the fourth. The scrubs add one more touchdown in the fourth to complete the rout. Baltimore Ravens win game three 35-12, wins series 2-1.

1989 Buffalo vs. 2003 New England (New England -8)
Continuing the theme of championship teams angry at having to play a third game, the 2003 Patriots come out and beat down the Bills in their rubber match. A 7-3 Patriot lead after the first becomes a 17-6 lead at the half. The Patriot defense then improves after halftime, producing a clean sheet for 30 minutes while the offense adds an insurance score in the fourth to salt the game away. New England wins game three 24-6, wins series 2-1.

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 01:28 PM

A review of my predictions from an earlier post:

*I expect that of all the champs from 1937-1960, only a handful will survive. 1946 Bears (against 1961 Steelers) and 1958 Colts (a pretty good bet against the 1948 Steelers) are the most likely to move on.
Generally, this prediction bore out, but a few more teams made it than I thought would. Both the Bears and Colts did advance, but so did the 1938 Giants, the 1953 Lions, the 1954 Browns, and the 1959 Colts.

*The remaining pre-merger champs, I put a 50/50 chance of survival. 1962 Packers, 1963 Bears, 1964 Browns, 1968 Jets, and 1969 Chiefs are the most likely winners.
Almost right. The 1964 Browns and 1968 Jets both got swept out, while the 1961 Packers advanced. Net result was four teams advancing from the 1960s champs.

*For the 1970s teams, I see most making it through. I do think 1971 Dallas and 1973 Miami are probably not going to move on.
Essentially correct here, except for the fact that the 1979 Steelers also went out.

*Moving to the 1980s, I think the only team in real danger is the 1982 Redskins since they'll have to face the 2003 Ravens. I think the others are at least even money or favored.
So much for this one. The 1982 Redskins played great in ousting the Ravens. Meanwhile, the 1983 Raiders (one of my favorite teams as a kid) were rudely shown the door. The rest of the 1980s winners advanced as expected.

*For the post 1990s winners, I think pretty much all of them will survive, though I expect perhaps one or two to be upset. The most likely would be the 2003 Patriots going up against the 1989 Bills. Perhaps the 1974 Rams can beat the 1996 Packers, but it's a stretch.
The Bills did push the Pats to a third game before succombing, but the Packers swept out the Rams. All post-1990 winners advanced to the next round.

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 01:41 PM

Here is the list of the 512 teams that are advancing to the next round:

Arizona Cardinals 1994
Arizona Cardinals 1995
Arizona Cardinals 1997
Arizona Cardinals 1998
Arizona Cardinals 1999
Arizona Cardinals 2001
Arizona Cardinals 2002
Atlanta Falcons 1972
Atlanta Falcons 1977
Atlanta Falcons 1978
Atlanta Falcons 1980
Atlanta Falcons 1981
Atlanta Falcons 1983
Atlanta Falcons 1995
Atlanta Falcons 1997
Atlanta Falcons 1998
Atlanta Falcons 1999
Atlanta Falcons 2001
Atlanta Falcons 2002
Atlanta Falcons 2003
Baltimore Colts 1958
Baltimore Colts 1959
Baltimore Colts 1962
Baltimore Colts 1963
Baltimore Colts 1964
Baltimore Colts 1968
Baltimore Colts 1971
Baltimore Colts 1976
Baltimore Ravens 1996
Baltimore Ravens 1997
Baltimore Ravens 1998
Baltimore Ravens 2000
Baltimore Ravens 2001
Baltimore Ravens 2002
Birmingham Stallions 1985
Buffalo Bills 1976
Buffalo Bills 1983
Buffalo Bills 1985
Buffalo Bills 1988
Buffalo Bills 1992
Buffalo Bills 1995
Buffalo Bills 1996
Buffalo Bills 1998
Buffalo Bills 2002
Carolina Panthers 1995
Carolina Panthers 1997
Carolina Panthers 1999
Carolina Panthers 2000
Carolina Panthers 2002
Carolina Panthers 2003
Chicago Bears 1939
Chicago Bears 1941
Chicago Bears 1946
Chicago Bears 1949
Chicago Bears 1956
Chicago Bears 1962
Chicago Bears 1963
Chicago Bears 1967
Chicago Bears 1976
Chicago Bears 1979
Chicago Bears 1985
Chicago Bears 1986
Chicago Bears 1988
Chicago Bears 1990
Chicago Bears 1993
Chicago Bears 1994
Chicago Bears 1995
Chicago Bears 1996
Chicago Bears 1999
Chicago Bears 2001
Chicago Cardinals 1946
Chicago Cardinals 1948
Cincinnati Bengals 1973
Cincinnati Bengals 1979
Cincinnati Bengals 1985
Cincinnati Bengals 1986
Cincinnati Bengals 1990
Cincinnati Bengals 1991
Cincinnati Bengals 1992
Cincinnati Bengals 1994
Cincinnati Bengals 1995
Cincinnati Bengals 1997
Cincinnati Bengals 2000
Cincinnati Bengals 2001
Cincinnati Bengals 2003
Cleveland Browns 1954
Cleveland Browns 1957
Cleveland Browns 1966
Cleveland Browns 1968
Cleveland Browns 1969
Cleveland Browns 1973
Cleveland Browns 1975
Cleveland Browns 1977
Cleveland Browns 1978
Cleveland Browns 1981
Cleveland Browns 1982
Cleveland Browns 1983
Cleveland Browns 1985
Cleveland Browns 1986
Cleveland Browns 1987
Cleveland Browns 1989
Cleveland Browns 2002
Cleveland Browns 2003
Dallas Cowboys 1970
Dallas Cowboys 1972
Dallas Cowboys 1973
Dallas Cowboys 1975
Dallas Cowboys 1977
Dallas Cowboys 1980
Dallas Cowboys 1981
Dallas Cowboys 1983
Dallas Cowboys 1984
Dallas Cowboys 1987
Dallas Cowboys 1992
Dallas Cowboys 1993
Dallas Cowboys 1994
Dallas Cowboys 1995
Dallas Cowboys 1996
Dallas Cowboys 1997
Dallas Cowboys 1998
Dallas Cowboys 1999
Dallas Cowboys 2000
Dallas Cowboys 2003
Denver Broncos 1973
Denver Broncos 1974
Denver Broncos 1975
Denver Broncos 1977
Denver Broncos 1978
Denver Broncos 1984
Denver Broncos 1989
Denver Broncos 1991
Denver Broncos 1994
Denver Broncos 1995
Denver Broncos 1996
Denver Broncos 1997
Denver Broncos 1998
Denver Broncos 1999
Denver Broncos 2000
Denver Broncos 2001
Denver Broncos 2002
Denver Broncos 2003
Detroit Lions 1953
Detroit Lions 1963
Detroit Lions 1965
Detroit Lions 1966
Detroit Lions 1969
Detroit Lions 1970
Detroit Lions 1974
Detroit Lions 1980
Detroit Lions 1981
Detroit Lions 1982
Detroit Lions 1985
Detroit Lions 1986
Detroit Lions 1991
Detroit Lions 1994
Detroit Lions 1996
Detroit Lions 1998
Detroit Lions 2000
Detroit Lions 2001
Detroit Lions 2003
Green Bay Packers 1951
Green Bay Packers 1955
Green Bay Packers 1960
Green Bay Packers 1961
Green Bay Packers 1962
Green Bay Packers 1963
Green Bay Packers 1980
Green Bay Packers 1983
Green Bay Packers 1984
Green Bay Packers 1986
Green Bay Packers 1989
Green Bay Packers 1993
Green Bay Packers 1995
Green Bay Packers 1996
Green Bay Packers 1997
Green Bay Packers 1999
Green Bay Packers 2000
Green Bay Packers 2001
Green Bay Packers 2002
Green Bay Packers 2003
Houston Oilers 1976
Houston Oilers 1980
Houston Oilers 1987
Houston Oilers 1988
Houston Oilers 1989
Houston Oilers 1990
Houston Oilers 1992
Houston Oilers 1993
Houston Oilers 1994
Houston Oilers 1996
Houston Texans 2003
Indianapolis Colts 1987
Indianapolis Colts 1990
Indianapolis Colts 1994
Indianapolis Colts 1995
Indianapolis Colts 1996
Indianapolis Colts 1999
Indianapolis Colts 2000
Indianapolis Colts 2001
Indianapolis Colts 2002
Indianapolis Colts 2003
Jacksonville Jaguars 1996
Jacksonville Jaguars 1997
Jacksonville Jaguars 1998
Jacksonville Jaguars 1999
Jacksonville Jaguars 2000
Jacksonville Jaguars 2001
Kansas City Chiefs 1967
Kansas City Chiefs 1969
Kansas City Chiefs 1973
Kansas City Chiefs 1974
Kansas City Chiefs 1978
Kansas City Chiefs 1980
Kansas City Chiefs 1981
Kansas City Chiefs 1982
Kansas City Chiefs 1983
Kansas City Chiefs 1984
Kansas City Chiefs 1990
Kansas City Chiefs 1991
Kansas City Chiefs 1992
Kansas City Chiefs 1993
Kansas City Chiefs 1994
Kansas City Chiefs 1995
Kansas City Chiefs 1997
Kansas City Chiefs 2001
Kansas City Chiefs 2002
Kansas City Chiefs 2003
Los Angeles Raiders 1982
Los Angeles Raiders 1984
Los Angeles Raiders 1985
Los Angeles Raiders 1987
Los Angeles Raiders 1989
Los Angeles Raiders 1991
Los Angeles Raiders 1994
Los Angeles Rams 1949
Los Angeles Rams 1950
Los Angeles Rams 1952
Los Angeles Rams 1966
Los Angeles Rams 1967
Los Angeles Rams 1973
Los Angeles Rams 1975
Los Angeles Rams 1976
Los Angeles Rams 1977
Los Angeles Rams 1978
Los Angeles Rams 1983
Los Angeles Rams 1985
Los Angeles Rams 1986
Los Angeles Rams 1990
Los Angeles Rams 1992
Los Angeles Rams 1993
Los Angeles Rams 1994
Miami Dolphins 1970
Miami Dolphins 1972
Miami Dolphins 1975
Miami Dolphins 1978
Miami Dolphins 1979
Miami Dolphins 1981
Miami Dolphins 1984
Miami Dolphins 1985
Miami Dolphins 1986
Miami Dolphins 1990
Miami Dolphins 1991
Miami Dolphins 1992
Miami Dolphins 1994
Miami Dolphins 1995
Miami Dolphins 2000
Miami Dolphins 2001
Miami Dolphins 2003
Minnesota Vikings 1963
Minnesota Vikings 1964
Minnesota Vikings 1969
Minnesota Vikings 1970
Minnesota Vikings 1972
Minnesota Vikings 1973
Minnesota Vikings 1974
Minnesota Vikings 1975
Minnesota Vikings 1977
Minnesota Vikings 1982
Minnesota Vikings 1983
Minnesota Vikings 1985
Minnesota Vikings 1986
Minnesota Vikings 1987
Minnesota Vikings 1989
Minnesota Vikings 1990
Minnesota Vikings 1992
Minnesota Vikings 1993
Minnesota Vikings 1994
Minnesota Vikings 1995
Minnesota Vikings 1996
Minnesota Vikings 1997
Minnesota Vikings 1998
Minnesota Vikings 2001
Minnesota Vikings 2002
New England Patriots 1971
New England Patriots 1977
New England Patriots 1978
New England Patriots 1980
New England Patriots 1981
New England Patriots 1984
New England Patriots 1985
New England Patriots 1986
New England Patriots 1987
New England Patriots 1988
New England Patriots 1989
New England Patriots 1990
New England Patriots 1993
New England Patriots 1994
New England Patriots 1996
New England Patriots 1998
New England Patriots 1999
New England Patriots 2000
New England Patriots 2001
New England Patriots 2002
New England Patriots 2003
New Orleans Saints 1968
New Orleans Saints 1969
New Orleans Saints 1974
New Orleans Saints 1979
New Orleans Saints 1982
New Orleans Saints 1984
New Orleans Saints 1987
New Orleans Saints 1988
New Orleans Saints 1989
New Orleans Saints 1990
New Orleans Saints 1991
New Orleans Saints 1992
New Orleans Saints 1993
New Orleans Saints 1998
New Orleans Saints 1999
New Orleans Saints 2000
New Orleans Saints 2001
New Orleans Saints 2002
New York Giants 1938
New York Giants 1939
New York Giants 1950
New York Giants 1960
New York Giants 1970
New York Giants 1972
New York Giants 1981
New York Giants 1985
New York Giants 1986
New York Giants 1989
New York Giants 1990
New York Giants 1992
New York Giants 1993
New York Giants 1995
New York Giants 1997
New York Jets 1976
New York Jets 1979
New York Jets 1982
New York Jets 1984
New York Jets 1985
New York Jets 1988
New York Jets 1990
New York Jets 1993
New York Jets 1996
New York Jets 1999
New York Jets 2000
New York Jets 2001
New York Jets 2002
Oakland Raiders 1968
Oakland Raiders 1969
Oakland Raiders 1973
Oakland Raiders 1976
Oakland Raiders 1977
Oakland Raiders 1978
Oakland Raiders 1980
Oakland Raiders 1995
Oakland Raiders 1999
Oakland Raiders 2000
Oakland Raiders 2002
Philadelphia Eagles 1964
Philadelphia Eagles 1970
Philadelphia Eagles 1971
Philadelphia Eagles 1975
Philadelphia Eagles 1978
Philadelphia Eagles 1981
Philadelphia Eagles 1982
Philadelphia Eagles 1983
Philadelphia Eagles 1984
Philadelphia Eagles 1986
Philadelphia Eagles 1988
Philadelphia Eagles 1989
Philadelphia Eagles 1990
Philadelphia Eagles 1991
Philadelphia Eagles 1992
Philadelphia Eagles 1995
Philadelphia Eagles 1997
Philadelphia Eagles 1999
Philadelphia Eagles 2000
Philadelphia Eagles 2001
Philadelphia Eagles 2002
Phoenix Cardinals 1989
Phoenix Cardinals 1990
Phoenix Cardinals 1992
Phoenix Cardinals 1993
Pittsburgh Steelers 1962
Pittsburgh Steelers 1967
Pittsburgh Steelers 1973
Pittsburgh Steelers 1974
Pittsburgh Steelers 1975
Pittsburgh Steelers 1978
Pittsburgh Steelers 1980
Pittsburgh Steelers 1983
Pittsburgh Steelers 1994
Pittsburgh Steelers 1995
Pittsburgh Steelers 1997
Pittsburgh Steelers 1998
Pittsburgh Steelers 2000
Pittsburgh Steelers 2002
Pittsburgh Steelers 2003
San Diego Chargers 1966
San Diego Chargers 1978
San Diego Chargers 1986
San Diego Chargers 1989
San Diego Chargers 1991
San Diego Chargers 1992
San Diego Chargers 1993
San Diego Chargers 1994
San Diego Chargers 1995
San Diego Chargers 1996
San Diego Chargers 1997
San Diego Chargers 1999
San Diego Chargers 2002
San Diego Chargers 2003
San Francisco 49ers 1953
San Francisco 49ers 1954
San Francisco 49ers 1959
San Francisco 49ers 1968
San Francisco 49ers 1970
San Francisco 49ers 1972
San Francisco 49ers 1977
San Francisco 49ers 1979
San Francisco 49ers 1981
San Francisco 49ers 1983
San Francisco 49ers 1984
San Francisco 49ers 1987
San Francisco 49ers 1988
San Francisco 49ers 1989
San Francisco 49ers 1992
San Francisco 49ers 1993
San Francisco 49ers 1994
San Francisco 49ers 1995
San Francisco 49ers 1996
San Francisco 49ers 1998
San Francisco 49ers 1999
San Francisco 49ers 2003
Seattle Seahawks 1981
Seattle Seahawks 1985
Seattle Seahawks 1986
Seattle Seahawks 1990
Seattle Seahawks 1991
Seattle Seahawks 1997
Seattle Seahawks 1998
Seattle Seahawks 1999
Seattle Seahawks 2000
Seattle Seahawks 2001
Seattle Seahawks 2002
St. Louis Cardinals 1960
St. Louis Cardinals 1961
St. Louis Cardinals 1968
St. Louis Cardinals 1970
St. Louis Cardinals 1971
St. Louis Cardinals 1972
St. Louis Cardinals 1974
St. Louis Cardinals 1975
St. Louis Cardinals 1976
St. Louis Cardinals 1977
St. Louis Cardinals 1979
St. Louis Cardinals 1981
St. Louis Cardinals 1984
St. Louis Rams 1995
St. Louis Rams 1997
St. Louis Rams 1999
St. Louis Rams 2000
St. Louis Rams 2001
St. Louis Rams 2002
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1981
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1990
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1997
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2001
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003
Tennessee Oilers 1997
Tennessee Oilers 1998
Tennessee Titans 2002
Tennessee Titans 2003
Washington Redskins 1952
Washington Redskins 1956
Washington Redskins 1964
Washington Redskins 1972
Washington Redskins 1973
Washington Redskins 1976
Washington Redskins 1979
Washington Redskins 1981
Washington Redskins 1982
Washington Redskins 1983
Washington Redskins 1984
Washington Redskins 1985
Washington Redskins 1986
Washington Redskins 1987
Washington Redskins 1991
Washington Redskins 1992
Washington Redskins 1996
Washington Redskins 2000
Washington Redskins 2001
Washington Redskins 2003

JeeberD · 06-10-2004, 04:03 PM

The only thing better than seeing the '92 Cowboys advance is seeing the Niners lose three of four game threes...

SplitPersonality1 · 06-10-2004, 04:48 PM

Go Minnesota Vikings (all 25 teams)

I believe it is the franchise with the most teams left in the tourney. At least that is what I see at first glance.

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 04:50 PM

True, they lost three of four, but they're burning out their deadwood. 1966 team was 6-6-2, 1976 team was 8-6, and the 1982 squad did a wonderful job of defending the title with a stellar 3-6 mark in the strike-shortened season. The one team that advanced was the 15-1 Super Bowl winners from 1984. If you throw in their playoff wins, that team won more games than the other three put together.

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 04:56 PM

Splits: Hmm...looks like you're right. For the longest time, the Rams had the most teams left in my census tally, but the Vikes seem to now be in first (25-23). My next step is to update that census tally with who's advancing and then divulge which franchises are doing well and which aren't, along with best years, worst years, who remains from the pool of AFL, USFL, and AAFC teams, and which NFL/Super Bowl teams are still standing.

Once that's done, the pairings will be drawn for round three. I haven't decided whether I want to do 8 groups of 32 or 4 groups of 64 in reporting the results. Anyone got a preference?

Wolfpack · 06-10-2004, 08:38 PM

Okay, the census tally is in. Here are the results:

512 teams left
Most teams left:
1. Chicago/St. Louis/Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals--26 (astonishing, but true)
2. Minnesota Vikings--25
3. Cleveland/Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams--23
4. San Francisco 49ers--22

Fewest teams left (pre-1995 franchises only):
25. Atlanta Falcons--13
26 (tie). Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers--11
28. Buffalo--9

Fewest teams lost (pre-1995 franchises only):
1 (tie). Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers--17
3. Minnesota Vikings--18
4. New Orleans Saints--19

Most teams lost:
27 (tie). Washington Redskins, Chicago Bears, and Green Bay Packers--44
30. Detroit Lions--45
31 (tie). New York Giants and Pittsburgh Steelers--49

Best percentage of teams left (pre-1995 franchises):
1. Minnesota Vikings--58.1% (25 of 43)
2. New Orleans Saints--48.6% (18 of 37)
3. New England Patriots--47.7% (21 of 44)
4 (tie) Dallas Cowboys and Kansas City Chiefs--45.5% (20 of 44)

Worst percentage of teams left (pre-1995 franchises):
29. New York Jets--29.5% (13 of 44)
30 (tie) New York Giants and Pittsburgh Steelers--23.4% (15 of 64)
32. Buffalo Bills--20.5% (9 of 44)

Stats of post-1995 expansion teams:
Carolina Panthers: 6 teams left (29th), 3 teams out (3rd), 66.7% (2nd)
Jacksonville Jaguars: 6 teams left (29th), 3 teams out (3rd), 66.7% (2nd)
Baltimore Ravens: 6 teams left (29th), 2 teams out (2nd), 75% (1st)
Houston Texans: 1 team in (32nd), 1 team out (1st), 50% (5th)

Season with the most teams left:
2000 (22 left)

Seasons with the fewest teams still left:
1938, 1941, 1948, 1951, 1955, 1957, 1958, 1965 (1 left)

Seasons that have been wiped out:
1937, 1940, 1942, 1947

Teams left, by decade:
1937-1939--3
1940-1949--6
1950-1959--16
1960-1969--39 (64 pre-merger teams total)
1970-1979--84
1980-1989--118
1990-1999--163
2000-2003--82 (447 post-merger teams total)

NFL Champions 1937-1965 still playing:
10--1938 New York Giants, 1941 Chicago Bears, 1946 Chicago Bears, 1953 Detroit Lions, 1954 Cleveland Browns, 1958 Baltimore Colts, 1959 Baltimore Colts, 1961 Green Bay Packers, 1962 Green Bay Packers, 1963 Green Bay Packers (16 eliminated)

Super Bowl Champions eliminated:
8: 1966 Green Bay Packers (I), 1967 Green Bay Packers (II), 1968 New York Jets (III), 1970 Baltimore Colts (V), 1971 Dallas Cowboys (VI), 1973 Miami Dolphins (VIII), 1979 Pittsburgh Steelers (XIV), 1983 Los Angeles Raiders (XVIII) (30 left)

Non-NFL leagues:
AAFC: all teams eliminated
USFL: 1 team left (1985 Birmingham Stallions)
AFL: 5 teams left (1967 Kansas City Chiefs, 1969 Kansas City Chiefs, 1968 Oakland Raiders, 1969 Oakland Raiders, 1966 San Diego Chargers)

SFL Cat · 06-10-2004, 11:14 PM

Die, Niners!!!

Go Cowboys!!!

Glad to see an overrated 79 Steelers team bite the dust too!

*waits for the flames*

Wolfpack · 06-11-2004, 10:53 AM

The random draw for round three is done. I have decided to do eight groups of 32 pairings. Here is the first group:

Code:

San Francisco 49ers 1953 (9-3)		vs.	Kansas City Chiefs 1992 (10-6, WC)
Baltimore Ravens 2001 (10-6, WC)	vs.	Phoenix Cardinals 1992 (4-12)
Green Bay Packers 1963 (11-2-1)		vs.	New England Patriots 1989 (5-11)
Houston Oilers 1992 (10-6, WC)		vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1995 (11-5, D)
New England Patriots 1985 (11-5, C)	vs.	Denver Broncos 1984 (13-3, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1998 (15-1, D)	vs.	Los Angeles Raiders 1984 (11-5, WC)
New York Giants 1981 (9-7, WC)		vs.	Denver Broncos 1999 (6-10)
Oakland Raiders 1978 (9-7)		vs.	Atlanta Falcons 2001 (7-9)
New England Patriots 1981 (2-14)	vs.	San Francisco 49ers 1999 (4-12)
Denver Broncos 1975 (6-8)		vs.	Philadelphia Eagles 1975 (4-10)
Dallas Cowboys 1984 (9-7)		vs.	Houston Oilers 1996 (8-8)
Baltimore Colts 1964 (12-2,C)		vs.	New England Patriots 1986 (11-5, D)
Detroit Lions 1991 (12-4, D)		vs.	Baltimore Colts 1968 (13-1, NFL-L)
Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (11-5, WC)	vs.	New York Jets 2001 (10-6, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1994 (9-7)		vs.	New Orleans Saints 1993 (8-8)
New York Giants 1972 (8-6)		vs.	Los Angeles Raiders 1987 (5-10)
Houston Oilers 1976 (5-9)		vs.	New York Jets 1976 (3-11)
Miami Dolphins 1978 (11-5, WC)		vs.	Cincinnati Bengals 1991 (3-13)
Minnesota Vikings 1994 (10-6, D)	vs.	Cleveland Browns 1989 (9-6-1, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1977 (10-4, D)		vs.	New England Patriots 2000 (5-11)
Arizona Cardinals 2001 (7-9)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 1986 (8-8)
Detroit Lions 1985 (7-9)		vs.	Minnesota Vikings 1992 (11-5, D)
Chicago Bears 1993 (7-9)		vs.	Dallas Cowboys 2003 (10-6, WC)
New Orleans Saints 1984	(7-9)		vs.	Chicago Bears 1967 (7-6-1)
Chicago Bears 1939 (8-3)		vs.	Washington Redskins 2003 (5-11)
Oakland Raiders 1995 (8-8)		vs.	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 (8-8)
Seattle Seahawks 1986 (10-6)		vs.	Baltimore Colts 1963 (8-6)
New York Jets 1982 (6-3, P)		vs.	Miami Dolphins 1981 (11-4-1, D)
Miami Dolphins 1995 (9-7, D)		vs.	Los Angeles Rams 1952 (9-3)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1997 (11-5, WC)	vs.	Chicago Bears 1979 (10-6, WC)
New England Patriots 1980 (10-6)	vs.	Green Bay Packers 1997 (13-3, C)
Minnesota Vikings 1990 (6-10)		vs.	Chicago Bears 1949 (9-3)

Headliner: 1991 Detroit vs. 1968 Baltimore Colts
*This was one of Detroit's best teams, going 12-4 and winning the NFC Central. They made the NFC championship before getting eliminated by the eventual Super Bowl champion Redskins. On the other side, the 1968 Colts have been considered to be one of the best teams to never win the Super Bowl. They dominated the NFL that year and were big favorites in Super Bowl III, but the New York Jets, lead by Joe Namath and his guarantee, derailed them from claiming their spot as one of the best ever.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1992 Houston (wild card) vs. 1995 San Francisco (NFC West champs)
*1985 New England (AFC champs) vs. 1984 Denver (AFC West champs)
*1998 Minnesota (NFC Central champs) vs. 1984 LA Raiders (wild card)
*1964 Baltimore Colts (NFL West Champs) vs. 1986 New England (AFC East champs)
*1992 Philadelphia (wild card) vs. 2001 NY Jets (wild card)
*1994 Minnesota (NFC Central champs) vs. 1989 Cleveland (AFC Central champs)
*1982 NY Jets (playoff team) vs. 1981 Miami (AFC East champs)
*1997 Jacksonville (wild card) vs. 1979 Chicago (wild card)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see: 1981 New England vs. 1999 San Francisco
*On wins and losses alone, it's an easy winner. The two teams combined for six wins between them. Of the remaining 62 teams in this pairing group, 54 teams have six or more wins.

JeeberD · 06-11-2004, 11:55 AM

Cowboys vs Oilers. Let's get it on!

Huckleberry · 06-11-2004, 12:01 PM

I'm ticked the '71 Cowboys are out. 3 points allowed in the Super Bowl. I call this a sham. The last 32 teams should have been all Cowboys teams.

sterlingice · 06-11-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Cowboys vs Oilers. Let's get it on!

So who are you rooting for here:
*1992 Houston (wild card) vs. 1995 San Francisco (NFC West champs)

SI

Wolfpack · 06-11-2004, 02:17 PM

I'm going to try a different approach to reporting for this first group. If people like it, I'll keep doing it. If not, I'll go back to how I was doing it before.

Here are the scores from game one:

Code:

San Francisco 49ers 1953 (9-3)		20-27	Kansas City Chiefs 1992 (10-6, WC)
Baltimore Ravens 2001 (10-6, WC)	14-21	Phoenix Cardinals 1992 (4-12)
Green Bay Packers 1963 (11-2-1)		19-31	New England Patriots 1989 (5-11)
Houston Oilers 1992 (10-6, WC)		31-24	San Francisco 49ers 1995 (11-5, D)
New England Patriots 1985 (11-5, C)	10-13*	Denver Broncos 1984 (13-3, D)
Minnesota Vikings 1998 (15-1, D)	40-14	Los Angeles Raiders 1984 (11-5, WC)
New York Giants 1981 (9-7, WC)		10-14	Denver Broncos 1999 (6-10)
Oakland Raiders 1978 (9-7)		10-31	Atlanta Falcons 2001 (7-9)
New England Patriots 1981 (2-14)	28-14	San Francisco 49ers 1999 (4-12)
Denver Broncos 1975 (6-8)		24-34	Philadelphia Eagles 1975 (4-10)
Dallas Cowboys 1984 (9-7)		20-25	Houston Oilers 1996 (8-8)
Baltimore Colts 1964 (12-2,C)		10-42	New England Patriots 1986 (11-5, D)
Detroit Lions 1991 (12-4, D)		 6-33	Baltimore Colts 1968 (13-1, NFL-L)
Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (11-5, WC)	17-14*	New York Jets 2001 (10-6, WC)
Los Angeles Raiders 1994 (9-7)		24-21	New Orleans Saints 1993 (8-8)
New York Giants 1972 (8-6)		 7- 0	Los Angeles Raiders 1987 (5-10)
Houston Oilers 1976 (5-9)		 7-21	New York Jets 1976 (3-11)
Miami Dolphins 1978 (11-5, WC)		20-17	Cincinnati Bengals 1991 (3-13)
Minnesota Vikings 1994 (10-6, D)	28-41	Cleveland Browns 1989 (9-6-1, D)
Los Angeles Rams 1977 (10-4, D)		 9-17	New England Patriots 2000 (5-11)
Arizona Cardinals 2001 (7-9)		10-23	Miami Dolphins 1986 (8-8)
Detroit Lions 1985 (7-9)		 6-17	Minnesota Vikings 1992 (11-5, D)
Chicago Bears 1993 (7-9)		15-21	Dallas Cowboys 2003 (10-6, WC)
New Orleans Saints 1984	(7-9)		 7-14	Chicago Bears 1967 (7-6-1)
Chicago Bears 1939 (8-3)		13-28	Washington Redskins 2003 (5-11)
Oakland Raiders 1995 (8-8)		13-21	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 (8-8)
Seattle Seahawks 1986 (10-6)		24-14	Baltimore Colts 1963 (8-6)
New York Jets 1982 (6-3, P)		13-16*	Miami Dolphins 1981 (11-4-1, D)
Miami Dolphins 1995 (9-7, D)		42-34	Los Angeles Rams 1952 (9-3)
Jacksonville Jaguars 1997 (11-5, WC)	27-15	Chicago Bears 1979 (10-6, WC)
New England Patriots 1980 (10-6)	17-34	Green Bay Packers 1997 (13-3, C)
Minnesota Vikings 1990 (6-10)		27-12	Chicago Bears 1949 (9-3)

*-OT game

Headliner: 1991 Detroit at 1968 Baltimore Colts
*Game one of this series wasn't much of a contest. It was all square after the first at 6-6, but the Colt defense took over after that and shut out the Lions. The offense got in gear for Baltimore in the middle two quarters, tuning the Lions up for 27 points over that period. Baltimore wins game one 33-6.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1992 Houston 31, 1995 San Francisco 24 (Houston leads series 1-0)
*1984 Denver 13, 1985 New England 10 (OT) (Denver leads series 1-0)
*1998 Minnesota 40, 1984 LA Raiders 14 (Minnesota leads 1-0)
*1986 New England 42, 1964 Baltimore 10 (New England leads 1-0)
*1992 Philadelphia 17, 2001 NY Jets 14 (OT) (Philadelphia leads 1-0)
*1989 Cleveland 41, 1994 Minnesota 28 (Cleveland leads 1-0)
*1981 Miami 16, 1982 New England 13 (OT) (Miami leads 1-0)
*1997 Jacksonville 27, 1979 Chicago 15

Big upsets+:
*1992 Houston 31, 1995 San Francisco 24 (San Francisco -14)
*1972 NY Giants 7, 1987 LA Raiders 0 (LA Raiders -8)
*1976 NY Jets 21, 1976 Houston 7 (Houston -8)
+-"big upset" means favored team had line of -7 or greater

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
1981 New England 28, 1999 San Francisco 14

Wolfpack · 06-11-2004, 02:51 PM

Game two scores are in:

Code:

Kansas City Chiefs 1992 (10-6, WC)	38-13	San Francisco 49ers 1953 (9-3)
Phoenix Cardinals 1992 (4-12)		10-20	Baltimore Ravens 2001 (10-6, WC)
New England Patriots 1989 (5-11)	24-28	Green Bay Packers 1963 (11-2-1)
San Francisco 49ers 1995 (11-5, D)	33-23	Houston Oilers 1992 (10-6, WC)
Denver Broncos 1984 (13-3, D)		30-17	New England Patriots 1985 (11-5, C)
Los Angeles Raiders 1984 (11-5, WC)	20-59	Minnesota Vikings 1998 (15-1, D)
Denver Broncos 1999 (6-10)		30-14	New York Giants 1981 (9-7, WC)
Atlanta Falcons 2001 (7-9)		31-30	Oakland Raiders 1978 (9-7)
San Francisco 49ers 1999 (4-12)		27-17	New England Patriots 1981 (2-14)
Philadelphia Eagles 1975 (4-10)		28-13	Denver Broncos 1975 (6-8)
Houston Oilers 1996 (8-8)		38-15	Dallas Cowboys 1984 (9-7)
New England Patriots 1986 (11-5, D)	16-27	Baltimore Colts 1964 (12-2,C)
Baltimore Colts 1968 (13-1, NFL-L)	24-27	Detroit Lions 1991 (12-4, D)
New York Jets 2001 (10-6, WC)		20-17	Philadelphia Eagles 1992 (11-5, WC)
New Orleans Saints 1993 (8-8)		23-13	Los Angeles Raiders 1994 (9-7)
Los Angeles Raiders 1987 (5-10)		27- 6	New York Giants 1972 (8-6)
New York Jets 1976 (3-11)		 3-14	Houston Oilers 1976 (5-9)
Cincinnati Bengals 1991 (3-13)		20-27	Miami Dolphins 1978 (11-5, WC)
Cleveland Browns 1989 (9-6-1, D)	 6-20	Minnesota Vikings 1994 (10-6, D)
New England Patriots 2000 (5-11)	14-17*	Los Angeles Rams 1977 (10-4, D)
Miami Dolphins 1986 (8-8)		19-38	Arizona Cardinals 2001 (7-9)
Minnesota Vikings 1992 (11-5, D)	27-21	Detroit Lions 1985 (7-9)
Dallas Cowboys 2003 (10-6, WC)		14-10	Chicago Bears 1993 (7-9)
Chicago Bears 1967 (7-6-1)		10-34	New Orleans Saints 1984	(7-9)
Washington Redskins 2003 (5-11)		21-24*	Chicago Bears 1939 (8-3)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 (8-8)		17-19	Oakland Raiders 1995 (8-8)
Baltimore Colts 1963 (8-6)		10-20	Seattle Seahawks 1986 (10-6)
Miami Dolphins 1981 (11-4-1, D)		27-14	New York Jets 1982 (6-3, P)
Los Angeles Rams 1952 (9-3)		21-28	Miami Dolphins 1995 (9-7, D)
Chicago Bears 1979 (10-6, WC)		14-34	Jacksonville Jaguars 1997 (11-5, WC)
Green Bay Packers 1997 (13-3, C)	14- 9	New England Patriots 1980 (10-6)
Chicago Bears 1949 (9-3)		 7-38	Minnesota Vikings 1990 (6-10)

*-OT game
series winners bolded

I can tell already this round will be much closer than the prior round. Half of the 32 matchups are going to a third game.

Headliner: 1968 Baltimore Colts at 1991 Detroit
*The Lions bounce back splendidly from their drubbing in game one. As in the first game, the teams were tied after the first, this time 7-all. But, the Lions didn't let the Colts whale on them after that this time around. Instead, the Lions took the lead on the only score of the second quarter, a touchdown, to lead 14-7 at the half. The Colts came out strong in the third, though, putting up a touchdown and a field goal against a lone Detroit field goal to tie things at 17 going to the fourth. In the fourth, the Lions and Colts traded touchdowns, then the Lions nailed a field goal to take the lead. Baltimore had one last chance with the ball, but never got it into field goal range, giving Detroit a 27-24 win to tie the series at 1-all.

Other playoff team matchups:
*1995 San Francisco 33, 1992 Houston 23 (series tied 1-1)
*1984 Denver 30, 1985 New England 17 (Denver wins series 2-0)
*1998 Minnesota 59, 1984 LA Raiders 20 (Minnesota wins series 2-0)
*1964 Baltimore Colts 27, 1986 New England 16 (series tied 1-1)
*2001 NY Jets 20, 1992 Philadelphia 17 (series tied 1-1)
*1994 Minnesota 20, 1989 Cleveland 6 (series tied 1-1)
*1981 Miami 27, 1982 NY Jets 14 (Miami wins series 2-0)
*1997 Jacksonville 34, 1979 Chicago 14 (Jacksonville wins series 2-0)

Upset update (follow-up to big upsets from game one):
*1995 San Francisco 33, 1992 Houston 23 (series tied 1-1)
*1987 LA Raiders 27, 1972 NY Giants 6 (series tied 1-1)
*1976 Houston 14, 1976 NY Jets 6 (series tied 1-1)

Big upsets in game two:
*2001 NY Jets 20, 1992 Philadelphia 17 (Philadelphia -7)
*1939 Chicago 24, 2003 Washington 21 (OT) (Washington -8)
*1981 Miami 27, 1982 NY Jets 14 (NY Jets -9)

Matchup nobody wants tickets to see:
*1999 San Francisco 27, 1981 New England 17 (series tied 1-1)

Passacaglia · 06-11-2004, 03:20 PM

Go Lions! Although, it looks like they lost 33-6 in Game One, not 33-27. Right?

JeeberD · 06-11-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

So who are you rooting for here:
*1992 Houston (wild card) vs. 1995 San Francisco (NFC West champs)

SI

The Oilers, of course. I was never really an Oilers hater except for when they were playing the Cowboys...

Wolfpack · 06-11-2004, 07:52 PM

Good catch, Passacaglia...I had 27 on the brain, I guess from the Colts scoring that many during the second and third quarters of that game. Obviously, the Lions did much better in game two at the Silverdome. I believe the Colts are favored for game three, though.

SplitPersonality1 · 06-12-2004, 05:55 PM

Go Minnesota 1998 - show that world that you were probably the best team that never played a SuperBowl. Go Vikings! - way to outscore the opponenet 99-34

Wolfpack · 06-12-2004, 08:30 PM

Heh. When I was considering the restart and playing by seed, Minnesota came out as the #1 seed, so by the game's ratings, they may very well be the best team in the field. They certainly blitzed the Raiders in this series. Interesting to note is that one of the other best teams according to what I was doing to seed the teams was none other than the arch-nemesis of this team, the 1998 Falcons.

06-04-2004, 05:14 PM	#102
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Bah, San Fran needs to lose more often... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-05-2004, 01:26 AM	#103
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	NO. Damn you texas people... EDIT - I would be amazingly disappointed if the 1984 Niner team (probably my favorite of all time) was the only one that didn't make it out of the 80s championship teams. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com. Last edited by Vince : 06-05-2004 at 01:27 AM.

06-05-2004, 04:47 PM	#105
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Ooooh...them's some serious fightin' words, SI. __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-07-2004, 01:56 PM	#106
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Okay, time to finish the group...1990 to 1999: 1988 Cleveland vs. 1990 New York Giants Game 1 (Giants -14): The second Giants championship team was a solid favorite in this series, but the Browns begged to differ. The Browns scored the game's first 10 points and put the Giants back on their heels a bit. But, the Giants re-asserted themselves. They scored a TD towards the end of the first half to cut the lead to 10-7. They then struck for another touchdown in the third to take the lead. After that, the defense took over and kept the Browns from threatening the rest of the way. NY Giants win game one 14-10, lead series 1-0.* Game 2 (NY Giants -6): Game two in Cleveland can be summed up in one word: defense. Neither team broke the plane of the end zone the entire contest. Pretty much all the scoring was done with three field goals in the first quarter, two by the Giants and one by the Browns. The Giants added another field goal in the fourth that gave their defense the needed breathing room to secure the win. NY Giants win game two 9-3, win the series 2-0.* 2003 Seattle vs. 1991 Washington Game 1 (Washington -12): Seattle and Washington staged a spectacular game at RFK in the series opener. Washington played the favorite role well early, threatening to turn the game into a rout with a 27-7 halftime advantage. But, the Seahawks came out on fire in the second half. They struck for two third quarter touchdowns while holding the Redskins to a field goal to cut the lead to 30-21. Seattle then scored another touchdown to cut the lead to just two midway into the fourth. With under two minutes left, the Seahawks converted a field goal from 40 yards to take the lead and stun the RFK crowd. But, the Redskins had one more chance. They made the most of it, getting to the Seattle 39 and then lining up for a field goal with just seconds left. Snap, hold, kick is away...GOOD! Washington wins game one! Washington wins game one 33-31, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Washington - 4): In Seattle, the Seahawks had to bounce back from giving everything they had to win a game they weren't supposed to. They did admirably. After trading touchdowns in the first, the Seahawks managed to answer a Redskin touchdown with two from their offense to take a 21-14 halftime lead. But, this time, it was their turn to sputter at home, as the Redskin defense shut them out the rest of the way. Washington's offense, meanwhile, tied the game at 21 in the third and then put up 10 more in the fourth to secure the game and the series. Washington wins game two 31-21, wins the series 2-0.* 1976 San Francisco vs. 1992 Dallas Game 1 (Dallas -18): The heavily favored Cowboys were expected to win easily at home, and they didn't disappoint, though the Niners didn't go away. San Francisco put up a good fight, but the 'Boys were just too much. Dallas lead 10-7 after one and increased the lead to 24-14 by halftime. The Niners managed to record a safety in the third, but the Cowboys still increased their lead with a touchdown to lead 31-16. San Francisco put up a touchdown in the fourth and added a two-point conversion to cut the lead to 31-24, but the Cowboys then put the game away with 10 unanswered points. Dallas wins game one 41-24, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Dallas -10): The series moved to windy Candlestick for the second game and it's a game the Cowboys and their fans would rather forget. San Francisco pushed them from the start again as they took early 3-0 and 10-3 leads. The Cowboys would even it up with a touchdown near halftime. The 49ers took a lead on a field goal early in the third, but Dallas answered with a touchdown to take the lead for the first time. The Niners would add another field goal before the end of the quarter to make it a 17-16 game heading to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, San Francisco punched in a touchdown to regain the lead and went for two to make it 7 points, but came away empty. But, Dallas could not crack the Niner defense the entire quarter and meekly fell to defeat. San Francisco wins game two 22-17, series tied 1-1.* 1990 Detroit vs. 1993 Dallas Game 1 (Dallas -18): This edition of the Cowboys also drew a fairly week opponent to start. Unlike the 1992 team, this group seems intent on making a point. Game one was a laugher in Big D as the Cowboys raced to a 14-0 lead in the first and ended up leading 31-3 at the half. After that, they put it on cruise control and coasted to the win. Dallas wins game one 45-10, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Dallas -10): Back at the Silverdome, the Cowboys looked to dispose of the Lions and move on with ease. Problem was, the Lions weren't playing along. The teams matched scoring chances in the first half, the net result being a 17-17 game at the half. In the third, the Lion faithful went nuts as their team answered a Dallas TD with 10 straight points to close the third quarter and took a 27-24 lead into the fourth. The fourth was a tense duel as defenses fought hard to keep offenses in check. The break finally came when Dallas stood at their own 45 at the two minute warning. Ten seconds and fifty-five yards later, Dallas was in the end zone on a beautiful touchdown bomb. Detroit tried to rally, but couldn't and turned it over on downs, giving Dallas the win and the series. Dallas wins game two 31-27, wins series 2-0.* 1969 Baltimore Colts vs. 1994 San Francisco Game 1 (San Francisco -25): This series figured to get ugly for the Colts as the Niners were vastly superior. In game one, the Niners did everything to make sure of it. They jumped ahead 10-0 after one and 17-3 at the half. After that, it actually did get ugly. The Niners outscored the Colts 31-7 in the second half to win easily. San Francisco wins game one 48-10, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (San Francisco -17): Game two in Baltimore figured to be a little more difficult for the 49ers, but nothing really serious. Baltimore came out swinging, though, scoring a touchdown for the only points of the first quarter to lead 7-0. San Francisco rallied to take a 10-7 lead, but the Colts managed a field goal to end the half to tie it up. In the second half, the Niners were relentless, grinding down the Colts. They took the lead for good in the third and lead 20-17 going to the fourth quarter. They added 10 insurance points after that to secure the game and series. San Francisco wins game two 30-17, wins series 2-0.* 1975 Washington vs. 1995 Dallas Game 1 (Dallas -16): Another matchup between the hated rivals. Dallas was supposed to be the heavy favorite, but didn't play like it at home, at least to start. The fans at Texas Stadium had to be scratching their heads after seeing their team end up trailing 10-3 at halftime. But, whatever coach was telling 'em at the half, they better bottle it and sell it because it was good stuff. The Dallas offense came out smoking, scoring two touchdowns in the third and then throwing in another 10 in the fourth. Meanwhile, the defense was ferocious, shutting down and shutting out the Redskins the entire half. Dallas wins game one 27-10, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Dallas -8): Dallas shouldn't have required much to get revved up about game two at RFK, facing a rival and trying to do better than the last game against them. Turns out Washington didn't need much firing up either, and both teams played great in the first half. They answered each other score for score until the scoreboard at halftime read 17-17. After the half, both defenses asserted themselves. Neither team scratched in the third. In the fourth, Dallas finally cracked the Redskin defense for a touchdown. Dallas's defense, meanwhile, didn't crack and continued to keep the Redskins out. A last attempt to tie died on an incompletion and Dallas had completed the sweep. Dallas wins game two 24-17, wins series 2-0.* 1974 Los Angeles Rams vs. 1996 Green Bay Game 1 (Green Bay -24): There are times when a great team plays down to their competition and if they're caught napping, look out. Green Bay was caught napping early on in this one as the Rams struck twice in the first half to lead 14-7 at the half. The Packers seemed to wake up at halftime, tying the game in the third and then getting two touchdowns in the fourth, while the defense finally asserted itself and denied the Rams any attempt at getting things going on offense to secure the game one victory. Green Bay wins game one 28-14, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Green Bay -16): The Pack seemed quite determined to not let the Rams get them down again as they started off well in game two, scoring the game's first 17 points. The Rams did try to get back into it with a touchdown in the second to make it 17-7 at the half, but for the second straight game, they were shut out after halftime. Green Bay, meanwhile, poured it on and won going away. Green Bay wins game two 40-7, wins series 2-0.* 1972 Chicago vs. 1997 Denver Game 1 (Denver -28): Game one at Mile High wasn't terribly flashy for the Broncos, but they went about their business just the same. Their defense pitched a shutout for three quarters while the offense put up 20 points in the same time frame. The Bears finally broke through in the fourth, but they only managed a pair of field goals, which were countered by a Denver touchdown to complete the game. Denver wins game one 27-6, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Denver -20): If you're a Bears fan, stop now. Don't read any more. Go right on to the next game. If you are a Broncos fan, then by all means enjoy what you are going to see next. Denver wins game two 50-0, wins series 2-0.* 1979 Philadelphia vs. 1998 Denver Game 1 (Denver -22): The second Broncos championship team played like the first team did in their first game. Solid, unwavering, dominating. They did start with a bang by striking for touchdowns on their first two possessions and then just seemed content to put their hand on the smaller guy's head and just let him flail away for the rest of the game. Denver wins game one 31-15, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Denver -14): Game two saw the Broncos repeat the same beatdown from game one. They scored three touchdowns in the first half that effectively put the game away as the defense brought the lumber and shut out the Eagles for the first thirty minutes. Philly did manage to show some life with a touchdown in the third, but Denver refused to give anything else up and took the game and series comfortably. Denver wins game two 28-7, wins series 2-0.* 1981 Buffalo vs. 1999 St. Louis Rams Game 1 (Rams -26): One of the greatest offenses of all time finally took the field at the TransWorld Dome in St. Louis. The Bills gave it their all to try to keep up. They seemed to for one quarter as the Rams only lead 13-7 at the end of the first. The Rams extended the lead to 20-7 at the half and then scored at will in the third before shutting things down in the fourth to win easily. Still, you get the feeling they could have done better somehow. St. Louis Rams win game one 37-14, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Rams -18): The series moves to Buffalo, where the Bills and the more adverse conditions of the outdoors in western New York seemed to slow down the Rams quite a bit. The teams matched touchdowns in the first, but that was it for first half scoring. The Rams finally got things in gear in the third, sandwiching a Bills touchdown with two of their own to assert some control of the game going to the fourth quarter. St. Louis then put up another 10 points in the fourth to effectively put the game out of reach. St. Louis Rams win game two 31-21, win series 2-0.* Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-07-2004 at 01:57 PM.

06-07-2004, 02:48 PM	#107
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Finally...2000 to 2003: 1991 New England vs. 2000 Baltimore Ravens Game 1 (Ravens -24): The 2000 Ravens had one of the best defenses ever, but their offense was pedestrian at best. They draw a bad New England team in this round, so that offense may not be an issue. The Ravens start well, getting 10 in the first quarter, but the Patriots seem to be moving the ball decently, though they only have a pair of field goals to show for it. The next two quarters move by in a blur as neither team's offense can move the ball against the opposing defense. In the fourth, the Patriots put up a field goal, the Ravens answer with one of their own, and then the Patriots get yet another field goal to trail 13-12. The crowd at PSINet Stadium is getting antsy. The Patriots get the ball back one last time, trying to get into field goal range. They reach the Raven 30 and then it happens. The great Raven defense breaks down on a pass play and the Patriots strike for a touchdown, stunning the crowd to silence. There is not enough time to get a response from the Ravens and the Patriots come out winners. New England wins game one 19-13, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Ravens -16): So much for thinking the offense wasn't going to be an issue for Baltimore. The Ravens are up against it and have to travel to Foxboro to win and avoid the embarrassment of being swept out. Starting out, it looks like the offense and defense finally get their acts together. By halftime the Ravens are comfortably ahead 17-0. The Ravens then add another touchdown to make it 24-0. New England makes an effort as the Ravens seem to pack it in after that, getting a pair of touchdowns to close the gap, but it's too little, too late. Baltimore Ravens win game two, series tied 1-1.* 1981 Los Angeles Rams vs. 2001 New England Game 1 (New England -19): An initially scoreless game gives way to two second quarter touchdowns by the Patriots to give them a 14-0 halftime lead. The Rams show some life in the third by putting up a touchdown to cut it to 14-7, but after that, it's a New England romp. The Patriots score the last 24 points of the game to win game one comfortably. New England wins game one 38-7, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (New England -11): In LA, the Rams make a much better showing for a half, as they battle the Patriots to a near standstill at 13-10. But as in the first game, the second half belongs to New England. The Patriots run off 23 consecutive points to put the game away and render a Rams TD in the fourth moot. New England wins game two 36-17, wins series 2-0.* 1999 Baltimore Ravens vs. 2002 Tampa Bay Game 1 (Tampa Bay -12): A clash of great defenses and weak offenses in this series. Fortunately for the Buccs, the Ravens are a year away from their great defense, so their offense will be able to have a chance. As expected, it's a slugfest in the first half of game one as Tampa Bay gets the first points on a touchdown, but after that it's field goals being posted to the scoreboard. This results in a 13-3 halftime lead for the Buccs. With the defense they had that year, this is more than enough points. Neither team scores in the third and when Baltimore threatens to make a game of it in the fourth with a touchdown, their defense breaks down more and gives up 10 points to hand Tampa the win. Tampa Bay wins game one 23-10, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Tampa Bay -4): Just because these teams feature great defenses doesn't mean they'll have unexciting games. Game two bore this out as a tense contest wasn't settled until the final gun. It looked good for the Buccaneers early as they scored the first 10 points, but Baltimore closed the gap with a touchdown late in the first half to make it 10-7 at halftime. Tampa extended the lead to 13-7 with a field goal, but the Ravens sent the home crowd into a frenzy with a touchdown to take a 14-13 lead, which they would keep going to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, Tampa struck for a touchdown to make it 19-14. They went for two to go up by 7, but failed. Baltimore answered back with a touchdown of their own to retake the lead. They, too, went for two to make it a field goal advantage, but they also failed. Tampa Bay had one last chance. They drove into Baltimore territory, but not very far and were forced to take a 49-yard attempt for the lead. Snap, hold, it's up...it's good! It's good! Tampa Bay has the lead! Baltimore gets one more chance, but the offense turns it over on downs as they Buccaneer defense keeps them in their end of the field. The Buccaneers then run out the clock and take the game and series. The 1999 Ravens are the first Ravens team to get bounced from the tournament. Tampa Bay wins game two 22-20, wins series 2-0.* 1989 Buffalo vs. 2003 New England Game 1 (New England -12): The most recent champion in the tournament draws a fairly tough task in a potent Buffalo Bills team from 1989. The teams traded touchdowns in the first quarter but then the Patriots ran rampant in the second quarter, scoring 17 unanswered points and seemed to have the game under control by halftime. But, the Bills didn't fold. They got one touchdown back in the third and then got another one early in the fourth. Suddenly, it was 24-21. The Patriots, however, didn't back down. They put up a touchdown in response and their defense finally made the stops needed to give the Patriots the series opening win. New England wins game one 31-21, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (New England -4): The Bills and Patriots staged a great contest at Rich Stadium. As in game one, the teams exchanged touchdowns in the first. As in game one, 17 points were scored in the second. This time, however, New England didn't score all the points. Buffalo scored 10 of the 17 points to take a 17-14 lead at the half. Neither team could crack the opposing defense in the third, leaving the Bills in front by three. In the fourth, the Patriots put up a touchdown, but the Bills answered with 10 points of their own to take a six point lead. Late game situation, trailing by six points, New England's been here, handled it a lot of times before. Again, they work their last minute magic. They march down the field and are within striking distance of the end zone with time winding down. First down...incomplete! Second down...oh, just missed! Third down...threw it away. Fourth down...drops back...to the end zone! Knocked away! Knocked away and the Bills will win! Buffalo wins game two 27-21, series tied 1-1.* Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-07-2004 at 02:48 PM.

06-04-2004, 05:09 PM	#101
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	1980 to 1989: 1952 Pittsburgh vs. 1980 Oakland Game 1 (Oakland -19): Oakland is a solid favorite in this series and it showed early in this opening game as the Raiders jumped to a 13-0 lead after the first quarter. The Steelers were game, trying to fight back and stay in it, but the Raiders kept them at arm's length the rest of the contest. Oakland wins game one 37-20, leads series 1-0.* Game 2 (Oakland -11): The return game in Pittsburgh saw the Steelers continue to put up a solid effort against the better team. They lead 7-6 after one, but wound up trailing 14-10 at the half. The Raiders extended the lead to 21-10 by the fourth quarter. The Steelers finally got going again and mounted a charge that drew them back even at 21, but the Raiders got one more touchdown to retake the lead and then held off further attempts by the Steelers to take the game and series. Oakland wins game two 28-21, wins the series 2-0.* 1981 Chicago vs. 1981 San Francisco Game 1 (San Francisco -14): A rare clash of teams from the same year. The Niners then, as they were for much of the 1980s, were better than the Bears. The series opener seemed to bear this out. The Bear defense was solid, but the offense was horrid. San Francisco wasn't much better, but it was more than enough in this game. Still, the Niner fans were squirming a bit as they were only up 10-0 at the start of the fourth, but San Francisco put up 10 points to put the game out of reach. San Francisco wins game one 20-3, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (San Francisco -6): The Bears made a better showing at home. Neither team scored until San Francisco got a touchdown in the second to lead 7-0 at the half. Chicago tied it up in the third and it remained deadlocked until the 49ers got another touchdown to break it in the fourth and then surged to a 21-7 lead with another touchdown. The Bears responded by going for it on fourth down on the next drive and making it, and then pushing on to the end zone for a 21-14 deficit. But, they couldn't get in the end zone again and the Niners complete the sweep. San Francisco wins game two 21-14, wins the series 2-0.* 2003 Baltimore Ravens vs. 1982 Washington Game 1 (Ravens -3): The 1982 Redskins, winners of that strike-shortened year, seemed to draw the short stick of the 1980s Super Bowl winners in having to take on the 2003 Ravens. But, they seemed to relish their rare role as underdogs in the opener at RFK. The Redskins and Ravens were tied 7-all after one. Washington tacked on field goals during the middle two quarters to lead 13-7 going to the fourth. In the fourth, the Ravens finally busted into the end zone again to take a one-point lead. But, the Redskins came back with a touchdown of their own and then got the two-point conversion to push their lead to 7. The Redskin defense played solidly down the stretch and turned away any Raven attempts to tie the game and Washington claims the win in game one. Washington wins game one 21-14, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (Baltimore -11): These two teams love smashmouth defense and smashmouth football and there was plenty of it in this one. The Ravens managed the only points of the first quarter on a field goal and then got a touchdown after Washington tied it up in the second to lead 10-3 at the half. Baltimore punched in one more time in the third to extend the lead to 14. Washington booted a pair of field goals to cut the lead to 8, but could never get through the wall the Ravens presented and lost the game. Baltimore Ravens win game two 17-9, series tied 1-1.* 1998 Pittsburgh vs. 1983 LA Raiders Game 1 (LA Raiders -5): A close series was expected between these long-time foes, with each favored at home. The Raiders took an early 7-3 lead, but Pittsburgh then surged ahead on 10 unanswered points to lead at the half 13-7. LA got a touchdown in the third to retake the lead and made it stand through the fourth, until the Steelers put together one last drive. The Steelers marched down field and reached the Raider 3. There they settled for an easy 20-yarder as time expired to upset the Raiders on the road. Pittsburgh wins game one 16-14, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (Pittsburgh -3): It's deja vu all over again. The Raiders held a 14-7 halftime lead in this contest, only to watch the Steelers boot field goals to cut the lead to 14-13 late in the fourth quarter. Sound familiar? This time the Steelers didn't get to the 3-yard line, but they did get to the 17 and converted yet one more field goal to send the crowd home happy at Three Rivers. Pittsburgh wins game two 16-14, wins the series 2-0.* 1986 LA Raiders vs. 1984 San Francisco Game 1 (San Francisco -18): The first of the truly great Niners teams of the mid- to late-80s draws a fairly easy mark in their playoff opener. The 49ers take apart the Raiders with precision during the first game of the series, allowing only a field goal against while dominating the game. San Francisco wins game one 30-3, lead the series 1-0.* Game 2 (San Francisco -10): LA came out at home determined to prove that they weren't as easy to beat as it seemed in game one. To that end, they came out smoking and had the Niners reeling by halftime, 24-7. But, the Niners are a great team and they didn't buckle. They put up 16 in the third and cut the lead to 31-23. However, the Raider defense stood strong in the fourth and held San Francisco to a field goal the rest of the way and the Raiders pull the upset. LA Raiders win game two 31-26, series tied 1-1.* 1996 Miami vs. 1985 Chicago Game 1 (Chicago -13): The 1996 Dolphins drew the unenviable task of facing one of the best defenses in league history. Were they fazed? Nah. Not at all. The 1985 Bears lost only once, to Miami. They seem to have developed a mental block with the franchise, then, as the Bears defense could not stop the Miami offense. A 7-7 tie became a 14-10 halftime lead for the Dolphins. In the second, the Bear offense could not score, putting pressure on the Bear defense to hold up the Dolphins. They couldn't as the Dolphins put up two more touchdowns and won in stunning fashion. Miami wins game one 28-10, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (Chicago -5): The Bears faced a difficult task in going to Pro Player Stadium. They responded well. Chicago got the first score on a touchdown in the first quarter, a score that remained until halftime. The third quarter featured fireworks as the teams traded touchdowns the entire period, leaving the Bears up 21-14. But, the Dolphin offense sputtered in the fourth, while the Bear offense continued to hum. Two touchdowns later, it was game over. Chicago wins game two 35-14, series tied 1-1.* 1986 Indianapolis vs. 1986 New York Giants Game 1 (NY Giants -22): The Giants are heavy favorites in this series and put the hammer to the Colts early and often. By halftime, the Giants were up 20-0 and they rolled to the win from there. NY Giants win game one 37-13, lead the series 1-0.* Game 2 (NY Giants -14): The Colts put up a better fight at the Hoosier Dome. The game was tied at 7 after one and the Giants only lead 13-10 at the half. But, the Colts couldn't keep it up anymore as the Giants put up 17 in the third against a Colt touchdown and shut them down the rest of the way to sweep the series. NY Giants win game two 30-17, win the series 2-0.* 1993 Cincinnati vs. 1987 Washington Game 1 (Washington -12): Washington was expected to take both game in the series, but the Bengals were not going to go easily. Game one in DC saw the Bengals deliver the first punches as they went ahead 10-3 at the half. But, slowly, methodically, the Redskins marched into the lead. A field goal in the third, ten points in the fourth, and a defense that didn't give an inch, much less a point the rest of the way, spelled doom for Cincinnati. Washington wins game one 16-10, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (Washington -4): Game two at Riverfront was supposed to be the closer of the two. For the first quarter, anyway, it seemed true, as the Bengals lead 3-0. But, the Redskins erupted for three touchdowns in a second quarter scorefest (the Bengals put up 10 themselves) to surge to a 21-13 lead. The defenses regained control of the game in the third as neither team scored, but Washington added a pair of field goals to put the game away in the fourth. Washington wins game two 27-13, wins the series 2-0.* 1993 Cleveland vs. 1988 San Francisco Game 1 (San Francisco -5): The Niners figured to have some difficulty with Cleveland, but it never materialized in game one. The Browns did get two first quarter field goals to lead 6-0, but it was all Niners after that. 14 in the second and 10 each in the third and fourth resulted in a rout as the Browns could only manage two more field goals in the third quarter. San Francisco wins game one 34-12, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (Cleveland -3): Cleveland again seized the lead 7-0 after the first quarter. San Francisco again raced ahead in the second to lead 10-7 at the half. This time, the Browns didn't let them get away. A scoreless third gave way to traded touchdowns in the fourth. San Francisco then added one more field goal and then then defense stopped the Bengals one last time to seal the win. San Francisco wins game two 20-14, wins the series 2-0.* 1988 New York Giants vs. 1989 San Francisco Game 1 (San Francisco -15): The 1989 Niner team ranks up there with the 1984 team in franchise history as one of the best. They showed it in the series opener by flattening the Giants with ease. They got 17 in the first and another 7 in the second to lead 24-0 at the half and eased to a big win. San Francisco wins game one 31-8, leads the series 1-0.* Game 2 (San Francisco -7): It wasn't nearly so easy at the Meadowlands. The Giants finally had the lead at 7-6 after scoring a touchdown in the first quarter. They made it stick until halftime, but after that the Niners did what was necessary to win the game. A field goal in the third got them in front and then a touchdown in the fourth salted the game away. San Francisco wins game two 16-7, wins the series 2-0.*

06-07-2004, 03:21 PM	#109
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	If the '92 Cowboys lose to those crappy Niners...I'll be forced to be very embarrased. Or something... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-07-2004, 04:15 PM	#111
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Readers: I have just uncovered a very bad bug in my code. I have discovered I have been referencing the wrong number when it comes to close game checks. I thought something was odd when '03 New England failed to score a touchdown against '89 Buffalo in spite of a +13 CGM. Theoretically, that should have guaranteed at least a chance at a touchdown, but the result was a turnover on downs. I discovered I was referencing the wrong number in the code. Even so, it meant that NE's CGF was being inputted at +16 rather than +13, which meant they were actually getting short shrift (though it should be noted that the rules call for a modifier no greater than 12 anyway, so that's to be fixed as well). I discovered that I have an error in the code for games where the scoring margin is 4 to 8 points because no matter what happened, the code in this instance was passing it to the "turned the ball over on downs" ending. So, I have to fix that. I am somewhat uncertain whether I should go back and replay games that have this error in them (there are 161 in the first two games of the second round). I have thought that since the error was consistent for all games that the results should stand, but part of me feels that leaving things as they are means that there could be teams advancing that might not have had the error not occurred, thus diminishing the tournament somewhat. What do you guys think?

06-07-2004, 04:58 PM	#112
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I've done the fixes and played out some test games. I used the '03 Pats-'89 Bills as my testbed and ran 19 games between them (forgot to drag in Excel to 20 rows). I discovered that the Patriots won the series 15-4, but more importantly, used their corrected CGM of +13 to win four games they were trailing by 4 to 8 points in, which means without it, the series would have been 11-8. One more testbed, to torture the Cowboys fans just a little, I ran the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers through the same test (this time with 20 matchups) and the Cowboys went 19-1. Dallas picked up a couple of wins through the corrected code they might not have gotten. Even so, bear in mind that this bug did not affect that series in terms of who won. The Oilers actually lost a chance in the first game of the series when they were down 17-10. The remaining games were decided by a field goal or less, so they wouldn't have been affected by the bug. Something to consider.

06-08-2004, 10:05 AM	#114
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	After further deliberation, I have decided to go back and correct all the games that were affected for (and this is the important bit) series where a winner might have been incorrectly determined. What this means is I won't redo the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers first game because that did not affect who won the series (the Oilers lost the game but won the series). This includes first round games as well. I'm not going to replay the games in their entirety, just re-do the close game scenarios at the end. With luck, most of them will result in no scores to simplify my life and not alter too many outcomes. Should there be a change of winners from the first round, then they will slot into the original winner's pairing in the second round and that series will be redone entirely (of course excepting any situation where a franchise ends up with two in the same pairing, in which case I'll swap out against another flip-flop winner, which hopefully I'll have more than one of if it ever happens). If a change does occur, I'll note it in the following posts and correct it in earlier posts, but I won't get into much specifics. This should delay the tournament going forward for a little bit, but hopefully not very long. Any other scores and series results not affected by this bug will not change.

06-08-2004, 11:09 AM	#115
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Just a brief follow-up. I am chunking through the first round again and thus far have had five sweeps change over to splits in the correction process, so there could be some upheaval coming. Splendid. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-08-2004 at 11:09 AM.

06-08-2004, 04:13 PM	#116
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Further follow-up: I have come to realize the error is graver than previously thought since the CGF value rather than the CGM value was used in ANY close game situation. The upshot of this is that there may be more teams that advanced that shouldn't have because instead of getting a negative CGM which reduces a team's chance of winning, they got a positive CGF in place of it, which increases the chance of winning. I came to realize this when I was re-examining the series between the 1976 49ers and the 1988 Packers in round one. The Niners won game three by virtue of having the Packers miss a 60-yard field goal attempt. In this instance, the Packers actually had a chance to win because they had their die roll on the Close Game chart increase by two (they rolled a 3 and modified it to a 5). In reality, because the Niners had a CGF of 5 and the Packers had a CGF of three, the Packers should have gotten a CGM of -3, which meant they weren't even supposed to get across midfield. True, in this instance the error in my code did not reverse a result, but it could have. There may be other instances of this elsewhere in my results that I haven't checked in detail, but I'm sure there are a number of them because I have found a ton of instances of the previously known 4-to-8-point close game bug in the first round alone. Most held to form, but 16 thus far have been altered to splits from sweeps and one series has been outright reversed. As a result, I'm pondering starting the whole playoff over. At this point, I feel like the results are too potentially flawed to feel like I have a fair process going on. If I start over, I'll start it in a new thread. The first round matchups remain the same, but the second round will be redrawn based on new results. Ugh. I'm depressed now. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-08-2004 at 04:14 PM.

06-08-2004, 09:54 PM	#117
RealDeal High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: here	I say you should simply go forward with what you have so far. Almost all of the Super Bowl teams have advanced, and those are the key ones. Anything else you do is going to be confusing and kill momentum. If you had never told us this happened, we'd never been any wiser about it, and we still would enjoy the humongous tournament.

06-08-2004, 10:05 PM	#118
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	I'm indifferent. Either way works for me- I'll read it whichever you decide. But you've gotta do what makes you feel better. If you think it taints the results too much, restart. If you think it takes too much work and you might quit halfways through (the temptation is great on a large project like this), then just go with it. We're all good with the result even if there are too many Cowboys teams advancing through clearly crooked means SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-09-2004, 09:04 AM	#119
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	i'm with the above posters. I'm enjoying the read regardless. If you feel like you need to start over, I'll gladly follow along again, but as SI said, the Cowboys will start losing next round and everyone will be happy, so no biggie

06-09-2004, 09:57 AM	#120
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Thanks for the input, guys. SI, it's not that big a deal to restart. The games themselves are easy to run. Obviously, the work comes in typing up the reports (always is with dynasty reporting). Until I saw the remarks made just now, I was going to actually go ahead and do a restart and this time employ seeding based on the team ratings. I'd re-seed each round rather than have a fixed bracket for the entire thing because trying to keep straight which seed should be playing which in the next round would be a PITA for 1492 teams, when I can just take a list of survivors sorted by seed and cut and paste in Excel. But, with some sentiment to go forward, it's hard to back up and restart. The thing that I am having trouble with is just the fundamental fairness of the results. I am a very particular individual who craves accuracy and correctness and it just slays me that there are flawed results that will skew the outcome of the tournament. Yes, RealDeal, I could have withheld the information and no one would have noticed, but the thing of it is, I noticed. That is enough for me to put a halt to this for the moment. Again, I'm a guy who likes things to be as correct as possible and if I have a hand in screwing something up, I want to make amends for it, thus the need to tell everyone about it and having to decide whether going forward is the right thing to do from my perspective. True enough, the tournament has generally weeded the right teams from the field thus far, but if I may go back to beat a dead horse yet again, I will use the 1978 Cowboys and 1994 Oilers to point out why I'm concerned about going forward. This was game three's output: Code: R2-G3 Houston Oilers 1994(4/11/0/16/13/O/-8) at Dallas Cowboys 1978(15/5/8/12/22/L/8) CG: Houston Oilers 1994 converts a 44-yard field goal attempt! OT: Houston Oilers 1994 converts a 34-yard field goal attempt! TEAM 1Q 2Q 3Q 4Q CG OT Final Houston Oilers 1994 0 7 0 3 3 3 16 Dallas Cowboys 1978 3 7 0 3 0 0 13 ---------- Line: Dallas Cowboys 1978 -9 (-12) UPSET Current Records: Houston Oilers 1994: 1-0 Dallas Cowboys 1978: 0-1 The numbers to note are bolded. The first bolded number is the team's determined close game factor rating for this matchup. The second one is the team's close game chart die roll modifier. The problem with the code was that I was using the first number, rather than the second number, to modify the close game die rolls. In the first two games of the series, the mistake didn't come into play by happenstance, though the close game chart was consulted in both. In game one, Houston trailed 17-10 and got a "no chance to score" result, probably just as well since Houston's CGM for game one was -9, which means they couldn't have done worse had the correct number been used. In game two, Dallas needed a field goal to win. By coincidence, since Houston's CGF is zero, Dallas's CGF and CGM numbers would be the same, so the failure for Dallas to score the winning field goal would be unchanged by the mistake. But, game three shows where the problem comes up. Houston trails 13-10 at the end of the game. Instead of subtracting 8 from the die roll as the CGM number suggests, the Oilers don't subtract anything, the resulting check gives them a longish field goal attempt, and they make it to force overtime. Now, had the correct number been used, Houston wouldn't even have made it to field goal range, let alone tied the game with one. The error is compounded because it occurs again in the overtime period, which is played exclusively on the close game table. Houston again benefits from an unmodified roll to attempt a field goal and converts it to win. It's this sort of thing that gets my hackles up. Again, I appreciate everyone's input into this matter. I'm going to have to think a little more on this before deciding what to do. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-09-2004 at 09:58 AM.

06-09-2004, 10:44 AM	#121
SplitPersonality1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Grafton, WI	Go with your gut on this one. I, too, will be following along regardless of what you end up doing.

06-09-2004, 11:08 AM	#122
RealDeal High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: here	Can't you just fix the code going forward? What happened happened, but all games from now on will work properly?

06-09-2004, 11:41 AM	#123
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Sounds like you think the best idea is to start over. I'm with you either way.

06-09-2004, 12:33 PM	#124
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	I thought about it some more over lunch and have now swung towards continuing on as it is. My reasoning is this: if I found yet another bug that interfered with correct results, then the precedent is set that I'd have to redo everything again. If I just go forward, then if there's a flaw, there's a flaw. Fix it and keep going. In a sense, this tournament becomes a beta-test of my program following that line of logic. At this point, I'm reasonably sure I've gotten everything debugged, but it is a computer program, so there are no total certainties. I may, after this run through, redo it again, this time with a corrected program and a different approach to matchups, but at least I'll have done it once to start with. So, at this point, I'm now leaning towards going forward with a eye towards getting it done and then, if there is interest, replaying the tournament again later. Sound good?

06-09-2004, 01:05 PM	#125
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	sounds good

06-09-2004, 01:09 PM	#126
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Sounds good... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-09-2004, 01:48 PM	#127
RealDeal High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: here	woot

06-09-2004, 02:18 PM	#128
SplitPersonality1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Grafton, WI	excellent. Now you have an excuse to run a second one of these.

06-09-2004, 02:35 PM	#129
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Woo! Two tourneys for the price of one SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

06-09-2004, 02:54 PM	#130
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Thanks for the encouragement and input, guys. I'm going to do a little tweaking (read: add some text to the output, no changes to the mechanics) and then I'll get the game 3's of group 8 posted either later today or tomorrow.

06-10-2004, 01:12 PM	#131
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Game three results: 1975 New Orleans Saints vs. 1938 New York Giants (Giants -2) The game started fast, but then defense took over. The Saints drew first blood with a touchdown in the opening quarter, but the Giants answered back with a touchdown and a field goal. Neither team was able to scratch in the second, leaving the Giants ahead 10-7 at the half. In the third, the Giants put together a drive that netted them a touchdown and their defense continued to control the Saints. The insurance touchdown was enough to give the Giants the victory after a scoreless fourth quarter. New York Giants win game three 17-7, win series 2-1 1986 Miami vs. 1939 Green Bay (Miami -18) The Packers were no match for the Dolphins in the rubber match. The Dolphins raced to a 17-7 lead after the first and then devastated Green Bay with 17 more points in the second while shutting the Pack out. After that, the fight was gone from the Packers and the Dolphins move on to the next round. Miami wins game three 40-14, wins series 2-1. 1982 San Francisco vs. 1941 Chicago (Chicago -2) The Niners and Bears played a whale of a contest for their series decided. Early on, it looked like San Francisco was going to roll to a victory as they jumped ahead 13-7 after the first and then enlarged the lead by halftime to 27-14. But the Bears fought back. They put together an impressive third period where they dominated both sides of the ball and roared to a 31-30 lead going to the fourth. The fourth quarter was a taut affair the whole way through. San Francisco scored first with a touchdown and then converted a two-point play to make the lead 38-31. The Bears answered with a field goal to make it 38-34. San Francisco answered with another field goal to make it 41-34. Chicago then put together a stellar drive that netted them the game tying touchdown. The defense then rose up to stuff the Niners and got the ball back. Another solid drive lead to a field goal and the lead for the Bears. The Bear defense again played stellar as the Niners made one last try to tie the game, but could not move into field goal range and ultimately turned it over on downs, allowing the Bears to run out the clock and win the game. Chicago wins game three 44-41, wins series 2-1. 1961 Pittsburgh vs. 1946 Chicago (pick 'em) A tough defensive battle was the story of this game as neither team allowed the other team any chance of getting any momentum on offense. Pittsburgh scored the only points of the first quarter on a field goal. Chicago answered with a field goal, the only points of the second quarter, leaving the teams tied at 3 at halftime. In the third, the Steelers finally cracked the Chicago defense for a touchdown while the Bears could only muster a field goal in response. The score remained 10-6 until late in the fourth quarter when Chicago made one last push. It succeeded as the Bears completed a 21-yard touchdown pass with little time left to take the lead and the win. Chicago wins game three 13-10, wins series 2-1. 2001 Indianapolis vs. 1949 Philadelphia (Colts -4) Another great game three. The Colts seemed poised to blow out the Eagles early, running off the game's first 17 points before an Eagle touchdown near the two minute warning in the second cut the lead to 17-7 at the half. The Eagles built on that late momentum by striking for 17 points in the third against a Colt touchdown in response to tie the game at 24 going to the final stanza. In the fourth, both teams converted field goals to keep the game tied. Indianapolis had one last chance to win at the end, but their attempt from 46 yards was blocked. Overtime! On the first possession of OT, the Colts worked their way downfield again and this time lined up for a 34-yard attempt. Snap, hold, up and...good! Colts win! Indianapolis wins game three 30-27 (OT), wins series 2-1. 1987 Houston vs. 1952 Detroit (Houston -5) The great games keep coming. In this series decided, the underdog Lions took the early 7-3 lead, but the Oilers got a touchdown in the second quarter to take the lead at halftime. In the third, the Oilers expanded their lead as they got a touchdown and a pair of field goals while the Lions only managed a touchdown, leaving Houston ahead 23-14 going to the fourth. The Lion defense rose to the occasion, shutting out the Oilers in the fourth. Meanwhile, the offense broke through for another touchdown to cut the lead to two. Detroit had one last chance, but could only get to the Houston 34 and had to try a 51-yard attempt. Snap, hold...blocked! It's blocked! Houston gets the ball back and Houston will win this game! Houston wins game three 23-21, wins series 2-1. 1966 San Francisco vs. 1953 Detroit (San Francisco -2) The Lions were underdogs in this contest (albeit slight ones), but certain didn't play like it as they jumped on the Niners early and often. A 7-0 first quarter lead became 17-7 at the half and then 31-14 going to the fourth. With the game in hand, it seemed, the Lions relaxed. The Niners took advantage and hit for ten straight points to cut the lead to 31-24. But, the Lions found their footing in time and put up an insurance touchdown to seal the win. Detroit wins game two 38-24, wins series 2-1. 1988 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1954 Cleveland (pick 'em) Another down-to-the-wire contest. Cleveland was relentless and methodical in this one, while the Raiders fought hard to stay in the game. Cleveland lead 10-7 after one, then stretched out to a 20-13 halftime lead. Another ten-spot against a touchdown in the third and the Browns lead by 10 at 30-20. The Raiders finally got control of the Browns offense in the fourth as they held Cleveland to a field goal while cutting into the lead with a touchdown. On their last drive at the end of the game, the Raiders pushed into Cleveland territory and got to the 28, but could not go further as the Browns hold after that to win the game. Cleveland wins game three 33-27, wins the series 2-1. 1988 New England vs. 1956 New York Giants (New England -6) How about another great contest? Neither team scratched in the first, but both got touchdowns in the second, resulting in a 7-7 tie. In the third, the Giants took the lead with the quarter's only points on a touchdown, but the Patriots had a response in the fourth. The Giants then got another touchdown to take the lead again, leaving the Patriots trying to tie the game late. The Patriots did just that, scoring on a 27-yard touchdown pass and forced overtime. The Patriots got the ball first in OT and never gave it up, marching into field goal range and then won the game and series with a field goal from 36 yards. New England wins game three 24-21 (OT), wins series 2-1. 1981 Denver vs. 1959 Baltimore (Denver -1) People are going to have heart attacks after this thread post as we have another close game to talk about. The Broncos and Colts traded touchdowns in the first. In the second, the Broncos took the lead on a field goal, but the Colts got a touchdown in response to take the lead at the half. No scoring in the third between the two sides except for a blown snap on a punt that resulted in a safety for Baltimore. In the fourth, the Broncos sandwiched a pair of field goals around a Colts touchdown which left them down 7 at the two minute warning. The Broncos had one last chance to tie, but they could only get to the Baltimore 27 before turning it over on downs. Baltimore wins game three 23-16, wins series 2-1. 1990 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1961 Green Bay (Raiders -6) One of a few games that didn't go to the last possession. The Packers played like favorites despite being touchdown underdogs, racing to a 10-0 first quarter lead and then extending the lead to 20-7 at the half. The Raiders rallied in the third, cutting the lead to 20-17, but a crucial Green Bay touchdown staunched the bleeding and put the Packers back in control. A pair of field goals in the fourth sealed the win. Green Bay wins game three 33-17, wins series 2-1. 2002 Indianapolis vs. 1966 Green Bay (Indianapolis -4) This wasn't much of a contest. For Green Bay fans, this is bad news. The Colts jumped on the Packers early, scoring two touchdowns on the first two possessions. They added a pair of field goals in the second quarter, leaving the Pack to try to dig out of a 20-0 hole at the half. Green Bay finally cracked the scoreboard with a touchdown in the third, but couldn't do anything else, really, as the Colts added one last touchdown for good measure in the fourth to complete the scoring. Indianapolis wins game three 27-7, wins series 2-1. 1986 San Diego vs. 1979 Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh -9) The Steelers were solid favorites in this game, but then again, they were favored in both prior games and so shouldn't even have to be playing this game. The Steelers came out looking to try to put it away early, ringing up a touchdown the first time they touched the ball. But, the Charger defense stifled them after that, allowing the offense a chance to get going in the second quarter and tie the game with a touchdown. The Steelers did retake the lead on a field goal at the end of the half to make it 10-7. In the third, the teams traded touchdowns, which kept Pittsburgh in the lead by three going to the fourth quarter. In the fourth, the Steel Curtain continued to struggle stopping the Chargers as they struck for a touchdown to take the lead. Then San Diego broke through for a second touchdown. A three-point lead had suddenly become a 28-17 deficit. Pittsburgh rallied, punching in for a touchdown. They went for two to cut the lead to three, but missed. The defense finally got the crucial stop and the Steelers had their chance to win. Pittsburgh worked the ball into Charger territory. Ultimately, they reached the 19-yard line, where they lined up for one last chance at the end zone. Back to pass...looking...throws! Incomplete! Incomplete in the end zone! The Chargers win! San Diego wins game three 28-23, wins series 2-1. 2003 Baltimore Ravens vs. 1982 Washington (Ravens -7) This one was close for three quarters, but turned into a romp in the fourth. The Ravens had the early lead, up 10-7 after the first quarter. The Redskins took the lead in the second quarter with a touchdown and kept it until halftime. Coming out for the third, the Ravens booted a field goal to cut the lead to one, but the Redskins answered with a touchdown to extend the lead to 21-13, which held until the fourth. In the fourth, the Raven defense finally broke down completely while the offense couldn't muster a response. Two Ravens field goals were answered each time by a Redskin touchdown, the net result leaving the game well out of reach for Baltimore and a Washington victory in the series. Washington wins game three 35-19, wins series 2-1. 1986 Los Angeles Raiders vs. 1984 San Francisco (San Francisco -14) San Francisco was a decided favorite, but as has been the case the entire series, their cross-bay rivals didn't care about that and proceeded to make life for Niners fans miserable. The Raiders got a field goal in the first and a touchdown in the second. Meanwhile, the vaunted San Francisco offense sputtered, wheezed, and stalled their way through the first half, never even threatening to score most of the time. As a result, the Raiders had a shocking 10-0 halftime lead. In the second, the Niner defense continued to work hard, giving their offense every chance to get untracked. The Raiders would fail to score in the third quarter. San Francisco, however, continued to struggle with the ball, putting up just a field goal to make it 10-3 going to the fourth. In the fourth, the Niners finally managed to solve some of their offensive problems, working to get a field goal and then finally breaking into the end zone for a touchdown that gave them the lead. The defense continued to play great, again keeping the Raiders from scoring. The Raiders had one last chance, but couldn't even get into field goal range with it, allowing the Niners to escape with the win. San Francisco wins game two 13-10, wins series 2-1. 1996 Miami vs. 1985 Chicago (Chicago -9) The Bears were embarassed at home by Miami in game one before bouncing back to win at Pro Player Stadium in game two. Which team would show up for game three? In the early going, it looked like the team that won game two. A smothering defense combined with an offense that did just enough to put their team ahead netted ten first half points while keeping the Dolphins off the scoreboard. Miami would finally break through with a touchdown in the third to cut the lead to 10-7, but that would be all the scoring Miami would have on the day as the Bears added an insurance touchdown in the fourth to secure the game and series. Chicago wins game three 17-7, wins series 2-1. 1976 San Francisco vs. 1992 Dallas (Dallas -14) The Super Bowl winners finally played like champs in the deciding game of this series. The Cowboys roared out to a 14-3 lead after the first quarter and then expanded it to 21-6 by halftime. The defense continued to play superbly in the second half as the Niners only managed two third quarter field goals, meaning San Francisco never reached the end zone on the afternoon. Meanwhile, the Cowboys put up a touchdown in each of the third and fourth quarters to win going away. Dallas wins game three 35-12, wins series 2-1. 1991 New England vs. 2000 Baltimore Ravens (Ravens -20) Just like the 1992 Cowboys, the Ravens decided to answer the bell with enthusiasm in game three of their series. Baltimore gets a first quarter touchdown, then answers two New England field goals in the second quarter with two touchdowns and have a commanding 21-6 lead at the half, more than enough lead for their superb defense. New England manages another pair of field goals in the third, but the Ravens counteract with a touchdown to lead 28-12 going to the fourth. The scrubs add one more touchdown in the fourth to complete the rout. Baltimore Ravens win game three 35-12, wins series 2-1. 1989 Buffalo vs. 2003 New England (New England -8) Continuing the theme of championship teams angry at having to play a third game, the 2003 Patriots come out and beat down the Bills in their rubber match. A 7-3 Patriot lead after the first becomes a 17-6 lead at the half. The Patriot defense then improves after halftime, producing a clean sheet for 30 minutes while the offense adds an insurance score in the fourth to salt the game away. New England wins game three 24-6, wins series 2-1. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-10-2004 at 01:29 PM.

06-10-2004, 01:28 PM	#132
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	A review of my predictions from an earlier post: I expect that of all the champs from 1937-1960, only a handful will survive. 1946 Bears (against 1961 Steelers) and 1958 Colts (a pretty good bet against the 1948 Steelers) are the most likely to move on. Generally, this prediction bore out, but a few more teams made it than I thought would. Both the Bears and Colts did advance, but so did the 1938 Giants, the 1953 Lions, the 1954 Browns, and the 1959 Colts. The remaining pre-merger champs, I put a 50/50 chance of survival. 1962 Packers, 1963 Bears, 1964 Browns, 1968 Jets, and 1969 Chiefs are the most likely winners. Almost right. The 1964 Browns and 1968 Jets both got swept out, while the 1961 Packers advanced. Net result was four teams advancing from the 1960s champs. For the 1970s teams, I see most making it through. I do think 1971 Dallas and 1973 Miami are probably not going to move on. Essentially correct here, except for the fact that the 1979 Steelers also went out.* Moving to the 1980s, I think the only team in real danger is the 1982 Redskins since they'll have to face the 2003 Ravens. I think the others are at least even money or favored. So much for this one. The 1982 Redskins played great in ousting the Ravens. Meanwhile, the 1983 Raiders (one of my favorite teams as a kid) were rudely shown the door. The rest of the 1980s winners advanced as expected. For the post 1990s winners, I think pretty much all of them will survive, though I expect perhaps one or two to be upset. The most likely would be the 2003 Patriots going up against the 1989 Bills. Perhaps the 1974 Rams can beat the 1996 Packers, but it's a stretch. The Bills did push the Pats to a third game before succombing, but the Packers swept out the Rams. All post-1990 winners advanced to the next round. Last edited by Wolfpack : 06-10-2004 at 01:39 PM.

06-10-2004, 01:41 PM	#133
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Here is the list of the 512 teams that are advancing to the next round: Arizona Cardinals 1994 Arizona Cardinals 1995 Arizona Cardinals 1997 Arizona Cardinals 1998 Arizona Cardinals 1999 Arizona Cardinals 2001 Arizona Cardinals 2002 Atlanta Falcons 1972 Atlanta Falcons 1977 Atlanta Falcons 1978 Atlanta Falcons 1980 Atlanta Falcons 1981 Atlanta Falcons 1983 Atlanta Falcons 1995 Atlanta Falcons 1997 Atlanta Falcons 1998 Atlanta Falcons 1999 Atlanta Falcons 2001 Atlanta Falcons 2002 Atlanta Falcons 2003 Baltimore Colts 1958 Baltimore Colts 1959 Baltimore Colts 1962 Baltimore Colts 1963 Baltimore Colts 1964 Baltimore Colts 1968 Baltimore Colts 1971 Baltimore Colts 1976 Baltimore Ravens 1996 Baltimore Ravens 1997 Baltimore Ravens 1998 Baltimore Ravens 2000 Baltimore Ravens 2001 Baltimore Ravens 2002 Birmingham Stallions 1985 Buffalo Bills 1976 Buffalo Bills 1983 Buffalo Bills 1985 Buffalo Bills 1988 Buffalo Bills 1992 Buffalo Bills 1995 Buffalo Bills 1996 Buffalo Bills 1998 Buffalo Bills 2002 Carolina Panthers 1995 Carolina Panthers 1997 Carolina Panthers 1999 Carolina Panthers 2000 Carolina Panthers 2002 Carolina Panthers 2003 Chicago Bears 1939 Chicago Bears 1941 Chicago Bears 1946 Chicago Bears 1949 Chicago Bears 1956 Chicago Bears 1962 Chicago Bears 1963 Chicago Bears 1967 Chicago Bears 1976 Chicago Bears 1979 Chicago Bears 1985 Chicago Bears 1986 Chicago Bears 1988 Chicago Bears 1990 Chicago Bears 1993 Chicago Bears 1994 Chicago Bears 1995 Chicago Bears 1996 Chicago Bears 1999 Chicago Bears 2001 Chicago Cardinals 1946 Chicago Cardinals 1948 Cincinnati Bengals 1973 Cincinnati Bengals 1979 Cincinnati Bengals 1985 Cincinnati Bengals 1986 Cincinnati Bengals 1990 Cincinnati Bengals 1991 Cincinnati Bengals 1992 Cincinnati Bengals 1994 Cincinnati Bengals 1995 Cincinnati Bengals 1997 Cincinnati Bengals 2000 Cincinnati Bengals 2001 Cincinnati Bengals 2003 Cleveland Browns 1954 Cleveland Browns 1957 Cleveland Browns 1966 Cleveland Browns 1968 Cleveland Browns 1969 Cleveland Browns 1973 Cleveland Browns 1975 Cleveland Browns 1977 Cleveland Browns 1978 Cleveland Browns 1981 Cleveland Browns 1982 Cleveland Browns 1983 Cleveland Browns 1985 Cleveland Browns 1986 Cleveland Browns 1987 Cleveland Browns 1989 Cleveland Browns 2002 Cleveland Browns 2003 Dallas Cowboys 1970 Dallas Cowboys 1972 Dallas Cowboys 1973 Dallas Cowboys 1975 Dallas Cowboys 1977 Dallas Cowboys 1980 Dallas Cowboys 1981 Dallas Cowboys 1983 Dallas Cowboys 1984 Dallas Cowboys 1987 Dallas Cowboys 1992 Dallas Cowboys 1993 Dallas Cowboys 1994 Dallas Cowboys 1995 Dallas Cowboys 1996 Dallas Cowboys 1997 Dallas Cowboys 1998 Dallas Cowboys 1999 Dallas Cowboys 2000 Dallas Cowboys 2003 Denver Broncos 1973 Denver Broncos 1974 Denver Broncos 1975 Denver Broncos 1977 Denver Broncos 1978 Denver Broncos 1984 Denver Broncos 1989 Denver Broncos 1991 Denver Broncos 1994 Denver Broncos 1995 Denver Broncos 1996 Denver Broncos 1997 Denver Broncos 1998 Denver Broncos 1999 Denver Broncos 2000 Denver Broncos 2001 Denver Broncos 2002 Denver Broncos 2003 Detroit Lions 1953 Detroit Lions 1963 Detroit Lions 1965 Detroit Lions 1966 Detroit Lions 1969 Detroit Lions 1970 Detroit Lions 1974 Detroit Lions 1980 Detroit Lions 1981 Detroit Lions 1982 Detroit Lions 1985 Detroit Lions 1986 Detroit Lions 1991 Detroit Lions 1994 Detroit Lions 1996 Detroit Lions 1998 Detroit Lions 2000 Detroit Lions 2001 Detroit Lions 2003 Green Bay Packers 1951 Green Bay Packers 1955 Green Bay Packers 1960 Green Bay Packers 1961 Green Bay Packers 1962 Green Bay Packers 1963 Green Bay Packers 1980 Green Bay Packers 1983 Green Bay Packers 1984 Green Bay Packers 1986 Green Bay Packers 1989 Green Bay Packers 1993 Green Bay Packers 1995 Green Bay Packers 1996 Green Bay Packers 1997 Green Bay Packers 1999 Green Bay Packers 2000 Green Bay Packers 2001 Green Bay Packers 2002 Green Bay Packers 2003 Houston Oilers 1976 Houston Oilers 1980 Houston Oilers 1987 Houston Oilers 1988 Houston Oilers 1989 Houston Oilers 1990 Houston Oilers 1992 Houston Oilers 1993 Houston Oilers 1994 Houston Oilers 1996 Houston Texans 2003 Indianapolis Colts 1987 Indianapolis Colts 1990 Indianapolis Colts 1994 Indianapolis Colts 1995 Indianapolis Colts 1996 Indianapolis Colts 1999 Indianapolis Colts 2000 Indianapolis Colts 2001 Indianapolis Colts 2002 Indianapolis Colts 2003 Jacksonville Jaguars 1996 Jacksonville Jaguars 1997 Jacksonville Jaguars 1998 Jacksonville Jaguars 1999 Jacksonville Jaguars 2000 Jacksonville Jaguars 2001 Kansas City Chiefs 1967 Kansas City Chiefs 1969 Kansas City Chiefs 1973 Kansas City Chiefs 1974 Kansas City Chiefs 1978 Kansas City Chiefs 1980 Kansas City Chiefs 1981 Kansas City Chiefs 1982 Kansas City Chiefs 1983 Kansas City Chiefs 1984 Kansas City Chiefs 1990 Kansas City Chiefs 1991 Kansas City Chiefs 1992 Kansas City Chiefs 1993 Kansas City Chiefs 1994 Kansas City Chiefs 1995 Kansas City Chiefs 1997 Kansas City Chiefs 2001 Kansas City Chiefs 2002 Kansas City Chiefs 2003 Los Angeles Raiders 1982 Los Angeles Raiders 1984 Los Angeles Raiders 1985 Los Angeles Raiders 1987 Los Angeles Raiders 1989 Los Angeles Raiders 1991 Los Angeles Raiders 1994 Los Angeles Rams 1949 Los Angeles Rams 1950 Los Angeles Rams 1952 Los Angeles Rams 1966 Los Angeles Rams 1967 Los Angeles Rams 1973 Los Angeles Rams 1975 Los Angeles Rams 1976 Los Angeles Rams 1977 Los Angeles Rams 1978 Los Angeles Rams 1983 Los Angeles Rams 1985 Los Angeles Rams 1986 Los Angeles Rams 1990 Los Angeles Rams 1992 Los Angeles Rams 1993 Los Angeles Rams 1994 Miami Dolphins 1970 Miami Dolphins 1972 Miami Dolphins 1975 Miami Dolphins 1978 Miami Dolphins 1979 Miami Dolphins 1981 Miami Dolphins 1984 Miami Dolphins 1985 Miami Dolphins 1986 Miami Dolphins 1990 Miami Dolphins 1991 Miami Dolphins 1992 Miami Dolphins 1994 Miami Dolphins 1995 Miami Dolphins 2000 Miami Dolphins 2001 Miami Dolphins 2003 Minnesota Vikings 1963 Minnesota Vikings 1964 Minnesota Vikings 1969 Minnesota Vikings 1970 Minnesota Vikings 1972 Minnesota Vikings 1973 Minnesota Vikings 1974 Minnesota Vikings 1975 Minnesota Vikings 1977 Minnesota Vikings 1982 Minnesota Vikings 1983 Minnesota Vikings 1985 Minnesota Vikings 1986 Minnesota Vikings 1987 Minnesota Vikings 1989 Minnesota Vikings 1990 Minnesota Vikings 1992 Minnesota Vikings 1993 Minnesota Vikings 1994 Minnesota Vikings 1995 Minnesota Vikings 1996 Minnesota Vikings 1997 Minnesota Vikings 1998 Minnesota Vikings 2001 Minnesota Vikings 2002 New England Patriots 1971 New England Patriots 1977 New England Patriots 1978 New England Patriots 1980 New England Patriots 1981 New England Patriots 1984 New England Patriots 1985 New England Patriots 1986 New England Patriots 1987 New England Patriots 1988 New England Patriots 1989 New England Patriots 1990 New England Patriots 1993 New England Patriots 1994 New England Patriots 1996 New England Patriots 1998 New England Patriots 1999 New England Patriots 2000 New England Patriots 2001 New England Patriots 2002 New England Patriots 2003 New Orleans Saints 1968 New Orleans Saints 1969 New Orleans Saints 1974 New Orleans Saints 1979 New Orleans Saints 1982 New Orleans Saints 1984 New Orleans Saints 1987 New Orleans Saints 1988 New Orleans Saints 1989 New Orleans Saints 1990 New Orleans Saints 1991 New Orleans Saints 1992 New Orleans Saints 1993 New Orleans Saints 1998 New Orleans Saints 1999 New Orleans Saints 2000 New Orleans Saints 2001 New Orleans Saints 2002 New York Giants 1938 New York Giants 1939 New York Giants 1950 New York Giants 1960 New York Giants 1970 New York Giants 1972 New York Giants 1981 New York Giants 1985 New York Giants 1986 New York Giants 1989 New York Giants 1990 New York Giants 1992 New York Giants 1993 New York Giants 1995 New York Giants 1997 New York Jets 1976 New York Jets 1979 New York Jets 1982 New York Jets 1984 New York Jets 1985 New York Jets 1988 New York Jets 1990 New York Jets 1993 New York Jets 1996 New York Jets 1999 New York Jets 2000 New York Jets 2001 New York Jets 2002 Oakland Raiders 1968 Oakland Raiders 1969 Oakland Raiders 1973 Oakland Raiders 1976 Oakland Raiders 1977 Oakland Raiders 1978 Oakland Raiders 1980 Oakland Raiders 1995 Oakland Raiders 1999 Oakland Raiders 2000 Oakland Raiders 2002 Philadelphia Eagles 1964 Philadelphia Eagles 1970 Philadelphia Eagles 1971 Philadelphia Eagles 1975 Philadelphia Eagles 1978 Philadelphia Eagles 1981 Philadelphia Eagles 1982 Philadelphia Eagles 1983 Philadelphia Eagles 1984 Philadelphia Eagles 1986 Philadelphia Eagles 1988 Philadelphia Eagles 1989 Philadelphia Eagles 1990 Philadelphia Eagles 1991 Philadelphia Eagles 1992 Philadelphia Eagles 1995 Philadelphia Eagles 1997 Philadelphia Eagles 1999 Philadelphia Eagles 2000 Philadelphia Eagles 2001 Philadelphia Eagles 2002 Phoenix Cardinals 1989 Phoenix Cardinals 1990 Phoenix Cardinals 1992 Phoenix Cardinals 1993 Pittsburgh Steelers 1962 Pittsburgh Steelers 1967 Pittsburgh Steelers 1973 Pittsburgh Steelers 1974 Pittsburgh Steelers 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers 1980 Pittsburgh Steelers 1983 Pittsburgh Steelers 1994 Pittsburgh Steelers 1995 Pittsburgh Steelers 1997 Pittsburgh Steelers 1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 2003 San Diego Chargers 1966 San Diego Chargers 1978 San Diego Chargers 1986 San Diego Chargers 1989 San Diego Chargers 1991 San Diego Chargers 1992 San Diego Chargers 1993 San Diego Chargers 1994 San Diego Chargers 1995 San Diego Chargers 1996 San Diego Chargers 1997 San Diego Chargers 1999 San Diego Chargers 2002 San Diego Chargers 2003 San Francisco 49ers 1953 San Francisco 49ers 1954 San Francisco 49ers 1959 San Francisco 49ers 1968 San Francisco 49ers 1970 San Francisco 49ers 1972 San Francisco 49ers 1977 San Francisco 49ers 1979 San Francisco 49ers 1981 San Francisco 49ers 1983 San Francisco 49ers 1984 San Francisco 49ers 1987 San Francisco 49ers 1988 San Francisco 49ers 1989 San Francisco 49ers 1992 San Francisco 49ers 1993 San Francisco 49ers 1994 San Francisco 49ers 1995 San Francisco 49ers 1996 San Francisco 49ers 1998 San Francisco 49ers 1999 San Francisco 49ers 2003 Seattle Seahawks 1981 Seattle Seahawks 1985 Seattle Seahawks 1986 Seattle Seahawks 1990 Seattle Seahawks 1991 Seattle Seahawks 1997 Seattle Seahawks 1998 Seattle Seahawks 1999 Seattle Seahawks 2000 Seattle Seahawks 2001 Seattle Seahawks 2002 St. Louis Cardinals 1960 St. Louis Cardinals 1961 St. Louis Cardinals 1968 St. Louis Cardinals 1970 St. Louis Cardinals 1971 St. Louis Cardinals 1972 St. Louis Cardinals 1974 St. Louis Cardinals 1975 St. Louis Cardinals 1976 St. Louis Cardinals 1977 St. Louis Cardinals 1979 St. Louis Cardinals 1981 St. Louis Cardinals 1984 St. Louis Rams 1995 St. Louis Rams 1997 St. Louis Rams 1999 St. Louis Rams 2000 St. Louis Rams 2001 St. Louis Rams 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1980 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1981 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1989 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1990 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1994 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1997 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1998 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2000 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2001 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2003 Tennessee Oilers 1997 Tennessee Oilers 1998 Tennessee Titans 2002 Tennessee Titans 2003 Washington Redskins 1952 Washington Redskins 1956 Washington Redskins 1964 Washington Redskins 1972 Washington Redskins 1973 Washington Redskins 1976 Washington Redskins 1979 Washington Redskins 1981 Washington Redskins 1982 Washington Redskins 1983 Washington Redskins 1984 Washington Redskins 1985 Washington Redskins 1986 Washington Redskins 1987 Washington Redskins 1991 Washington Redskins 1992 Washington Redskins 1996 Washington Redskins 2000 Washington Redskins 2001 Washington Redskins 2003

06-10-2004, 04:03 PM	#134
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	The only thing better than seeing the '92 Cowboys advance is seeing the Niners lose three of four game threes... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

06-10-2004, 04:48 PM	#135
SplitPersonality1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Grafton, WI	Go Minnesota Vikings (all 25 teams) I believe it is the franchise with the most teams left in the tourney. At least that is what I see at first glance.

06-10-2004, 04:50 PM	#136
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	True, they lost three of four, but they're burning out their deadwood. 1966 team was 6-6-2, 1976 team was 8-6, and the 1982 squad did a wonderful job of defending the title with a stellar 3-6 mark in the strike-shortened season. The one team that advanced was the 15-1 Super Bowl winners from 1984. If you throw in their playoff wins, that team won more games than the other three put together.

06-10-2004, 04:56 PM	#137
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Splits: Hmm...looks like you're right. For the longest time, the Rams had the most teams left in my census tally, but the Vikes seem to now be in first (25-23). My next step is to update that census tally with who's advancing and then divulge which franchises are doing well and which aren't, along with best years, worst years, who remains from the pool of AFL, USFL, and AAFC teams, and which NFL/Super Bowl teams are still standing. Once that's done, the pairings will be drawn for round three. I haven't decided whether I want to do 8 groups of 32 or 4 groups of 64 in reporting the results. Anyone got a preference?

06-10-2004, 08:38 PM	#138
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Okay, the census tally is in. Here are the results: 512 teams left Most teams left: 1. Chicago/St. Louis/Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals--26 (astonishing, but true) 2. Minnesota Vikings--25 3. Cleveland/Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams--23 4. San Francisco 49ers--22 Fewest teams left (pre-1995 franchises only): 25. Atlanta Falcons--13 26 (tie). Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers--11 28. Buffalo--9 Fewest teams lost (pre-1995 franchises only): 1 (tie). Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers--17 3. Minnesota Vikings--18 4. New Orleans Saints--19 Most teams lost: 27 (tie). Washington Redskins, Chicago Bears, and Green Bay Packers--44 30. Detroit Lions--45 31 (tie). New York Giants and Pittsburgh Steelers--49 Best percentage of teams left (pre-1995 franchises): 1. Minnesota Vikings--58.1% (25 of 43) 2. New Orleans Saints--48.6% (18 of 37) 3. New England Patriots--47.7% (21 of 44) 4 (tie) Dallas Cowboys and Kansas City Chiefs--45.5% (20 of 44) Worst percentage of teams left (pre-1995 franchises): 29. New York Jets--29.5% (13 of 44) 30 (tie) New York Giants and Pittsburgh Steelers--23.4% (15 of 64) 32. Buffalo Bills--20.5% (9 of 44) Stats of post-1995 expansion teams: Carolina Panthers: 6 teams left (29th), 3 teams out (3rd), 66.7% (2nd) Jacksonville Jaguars: 6 teams left (29th), 3 teams out (3rd), 66.7% (2nd) Baltimore Ravens: 6 teams left (29th), 2 teams out (2nd), 75% (1st) Houston Texans: 1 team in (32nd), 1 team out (1st), 50% (5th) Season with the most teams left: 2000 (22 left) Seasons with the fewest teams still left: 1938, 1941, 1948, 1951, 1955, 1957, 1958, 1965 (1 left) Seasons that have been wiped out: 1937, 1940, 1942, 1947 Teams left, by decade: 1937-1939--3 1940-1949--6 1950-1959--16 1960-1969--39 (64 pre-merger teams total) 1970-1979--84 1980-1989--118 1990-1999--163 2000-2003--82 (447 post-merger teams total) NFL Champions 1937-1965 still playing: 10--1938 New York Giants, 1941 Chicago Bears, 1946 Chicago Bears, 1953 Detroit Lions, 1954 Cleveland Browns, 1958 Baltimore Colts, 1959 Baltimore Colts, 1961 Green Bay Packers, 1962 Green Bay Packers, 1963 Green Bay Packers (16 eliminated) Super Bowl Champions eliminated: 8: 1966 Green Bay Packers (I), 1967 Green Bay Packers (II), 1968 New York Jets (III), 1970 Baltimore Colts (V), 1971 Dallas Cowboys (VI), 1973 Miami Dolphins (VIII), 1979 Pittsburgh Steelers (XIV), 1983 Los Angeles Raiders (XVIII) (30 left) Non-NFL leagues: AAFC: all teams eliminated USFL: 1 team left (1985 Birmingham Stallions) AFL: 5 teams left (1967 Kansas City Chiefs, 1969 Kansas City Chiefs, 1968 Oakland Raiders, 1969 Oakland Raiders, 1966 San Diego Chargers)

06-10-2004, 11:14 PM	#139
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	Die, Niners!!! Go Cowboys!!! Glad to see an overrated 79 Steelers team bite the dust too! waits for the flames