Star Wars I: Phantom Menace - WTF?

[ISiddiqui]

Alec Guiness was decent in 'Star Wars', but I agree that he was nothing special. He did give it some respectability in terms of the actors involved. Frankly, I think Ewen McGregor has done a better job in his role as Obi-Won. But I do like McGregor in nearly every role he's been in.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Alec Guiness was decent in 'Star Wars', but I agree that he was nothing special. He did give it some respectability in terms of the actors involved. Frankly, I think Ewen McGregor has done a better job in his role as Obi-Won. But I do like McGregor in nearly every role he's been in.

I actually felt a little bad for McGregor in the first one. He looked like he was taking the role seriously and had gone to some trouble to get the character sounding like a young Alec Guinness, and then wound up having to act with a bored Liam Neeson and a bunch of cardboard cutouts.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by TredWel

I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that Lucas decided that 3PO and R2 should be the "narrators" of all the movies, that the audience should see the action through their eyes.

Yep, although I think in A New Hope they were there as homage to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress (actually a good bit of ANH is from Hidden Fortress).

I also think Lucas likes showing non-living things as they journey through time. Like from what I've heard that's the reason the Ebon Hawk is the ship used in both KOTORs. Sorta like the film, Twenty Bucks, which follows a $20 bill as it goes from owner to owner.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Vince

It seems to me that the major point at which the Republic really starts to physically disintegrate is when Palpatine is granted emergency powers -- by Jar-Jar Binks. To me it seems that the entire point in the whole series for his character is to be the unwitting agent of Palpatine's full ascencion....

...I don't really think that Padme would have gone with the emergency power decision if she had been there instead of Jar-Jar. I also think it would have been a much cooler plot twist if Dooku was in fact NOT on the Dark Side, and the Jedi were unwittingly destroying their best ally in the fight between the two sides. Ah, well.

This actually supports why ROTS will likely make TPM make more sense and be a better movie. Not to give away any spoilers from what I know so far, but remember that it was Padme that made the motion for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Vallorum in TPM. If she had not done that, Palpatine would never have become chancellor in the first place. That was a critical moment in Palpatine's plan. Padme was an unwitting agent in his plan long before Jar Jar's moment of fame.

I know I'm a nerd, but I will say that the expanded universe novels do help to give more color and background to Dooku and Sifo Dyas and the whole clone issue. It shows much more of the complexity of Palpatine's plot and the unwitting role so many people play in it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I agree with this sentiment and would submit the reason many people think the old school ones are better is because you were 12 at the time you saw them and fond memories indeed they are.

This is an argument that sounds nice on the surface, but doesn't end up holding much water. I watched Speed Racer when I was a kid and thought it was the shit. I saw a couple episodes a few years back for the first time in 25 years or so, and though they were shit.

The first two movies, Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back were very well executed. Yes, they were aimed at the kid in everyone, but the acting and the storylines were clearly superior to any of the 3 since, especially the 2 prequels.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

WTF to you think a Wookie was in the first trillogy? Same attempt as a Jar Jar.

Not even close. Wookies don't have annoying, borderline racist Jamaican patois; wookies are more kick ass than comic relief.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

All the horrible dialogue like in the trash crusher ect was somehow art then?

How exactly is the trash compacter scene horrible dialog? If you really thought this was horrible dialog, we have an aesthetic disconnect so large that no amount of arguing will solve things.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think people's expectations somehow go up for some reason when in fact there is little reason they should. All the movies have been of a similar ilk...it's just that today you get zero bonus points for special effects unlike the original which were more ground breaking.

I agree with the special effects notion - the original trilogy was so far ahead of anything else out there, and there's no way with how special effects have evolved in Hollywood that a gap like that can be achieved any more.

However, I disagree with the expectation part. I didn't have higher expectations for the prequels - I just wanted them to be about as good as the first 3. We should've had some warning after Return of the Jedi that Lucas wasn't infallible, but it's a testament to how powerful Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back were that we had some hope that Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones could come near in quality and execution. They didn't.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I saw TPM yesterday again and enjoyed it.

Goody for you. I watched the original trilogy recently when I bought the DVD set, and the first 2 movies held up very well while my disappointment with Return of the Jedi deepened. I have my doubts that repeated viewings of the first 2 prequels will improve them in my mind, but perhaps the context of Revenge of the Sith will improve them in retrospect. I doubt it though - the things that bothered me the most are unlikely to be justified by RotS - the horrible decision to give a scientific explanation of the Force; the awful pod race announcers; the annoying stereotype accents for the aliens (how come, unlike in the original trilogy, virtually all of the aliens speak english rather having the movie use subtitles?); the wooden acting; the pathetic execution of the love story in AotC; etc.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Maybe everyone that's in the it sucks now camp will be happy now that the 5th episode is dark. I think it's a shame it's PG-13.

If it hadn't turned out to be PG-13, I would've known immediately Lucas had fucked this third one up. Given the arc of the storyline, it
has to be dark; there's simply no way to pretty it up for the kiddies and make it work. To do so would've been the ultimate betrayal to the storyline by Lucas in favor of appealing to the kid demographic. As much damage as Lucas has done to the franchise with these first 2 prequels, he still has the chance with this last one of gaining some redemption by getting it right.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

...Not to give away any spoilers from what I know so far, but remember that it was Padme that made the motion for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Vallorum in TPM. If she had not done that, Palpatine would never have become chancellor in the first place. That was a critical moment in Palpatine's plan. Padme was an unwitting agent in his plan long before Jar Jar's moment of fame...

Just to put it out there...I want no spoilers whatsoever, so please do continue to refrain

However, this point is well taken. My contention with it, however, is that Padme was pushed to this point by the Trade Federation's blockade and subsequent attack of her people. Though she was Palpatine's unwitting agent...she hardly had a choice. Palpatine painted her into the corner by 'buying' the trade federation. Jar Jar had absolutely no concrete reason to make the decision he did.

I don't know, I guess I'm defending Padme's character...I see what you're saying, and I'm sure RotS will do a lot more to clarify everything...but I don't see how it can turn into 'poor decisions' by Padme. In the first two, she has been portrayed as someone who will do anything it takes to get everything right, and that she has made decisions (such as the one to vote no confidence in Chancellor Velorum) only when forced. I like the scope of the future Emperor's plot...but I'm kind of bummed that what is in my opinion one of the most critical elements of said plot comes down to a weak-minded person put into a tremendous position of power for no apparent reason being swayed by a simple suggestion (or a Force-backed suggestion -- tomato, tomahto). I mean seriously -- TPM basically spent a good amount of time showing us that Jar Jar Binks is as klutzy and naive/immature as anyone could possibly be. By lucking into bringing the Jedi to the Gungin, then again luckily managing to kill a few Droids in the war, he is awarded similarly. How did he go from bumbling idiot to Naboo's representative to the Senate?

Kudos to the scope of the plot for being able to tuck Padme away somewhere...but randomly having Jar Jar Binks as Naboo's representative to the Senate is kind of...well, for lack of a better word, retarded.

As for the novels...I've been meaning to get to them, but never find the time. Hopefully soon.

[TazFTW]

Just wanted to check something. Which one is Keira Knightley?



My guess is the one standing next to Natalie Portman.

[cthomer5000]

It's tough to tell with the Keira Knightly business... there is clearly a lot of digital doubling going on in that movie.

[JeeberD]

Watched it last night...I had forgotten how annoying Jar Jar was. Other than him, though, the movie was pretty enjoyable.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

This actually supports why ROTS will likely make TPM make more sense and be a better movie. Not to give away any spoilers from what I know so far, but remember that it was Padme that made the motion for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Vallorum in TPM. If she had not done that, Palpatine would never have become chancellor in the first place. That was a critical moment in Palpatine's plan. Padme was an unwitting agent in his plan long before Jar Jar's moment of fame.

I know I'm a nerd, but I will say that the expanded universe novels do help to give more color and background to Dooku and Sifo Dyas and the whole clone issue. It shows much more of the complexity of Palpatine's plot and the unwitting role so many people play in it.

one of the biggest things I liked about Ep III was that it really did make the convoluted glop of I&II to come together a lot better. I think I will enjoy those movies a bit more now, although they still have many, many issues.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Just wanted to check something. Which one is Keira Knightley?


My guess is the one standing next to Natalie Portman.

I didn't know she was in it...but I'd say the one on the left.

[3ric]

I'm pretty sure she's the center one, in black.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by 3ric

I'm pretty sure she's the center one, in black.

Asked on another message board and they said she is the Queen whenever Padme is a handmaiden, so you're correct.

Interesting.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Just wanted to check something. Which one is Keira Knightley?



My guess is the one standing next to Natalie Portman.

Yes, Keira Knightley was Sabe, the queen's decoy. My question is which one is Sache -- aka Soffia Coppola?

[judicial clerk]

I've posted this before and i will probably post it again: Lucas totally screwed up what could have been one of the top five scenes in the entire series.

When Darth Maul faces off against ben kanobi and qui gon jin at the end of the movie, there is the scene where darth Maul strikes a fighting stance with his lightsaber in front of him and then activates the second blade for the first time in the movie. Now, that could have been one of those scenes that catches the viewers by suprise and puts them on the edge of their seat. People are so gaga over the lightsabers they would have shit their pants if that double bladed light saber was sprung on them like that. It would have transformed that scene into the best duel scene in any of the movies (which maybe it is anyway).

But noooooo, Lucas couldn't keep it under wraps and give his audience a little treat at the end of the movie. Instead, he puts that scene in the commercials and reveals the unique lightsaber and takes all drama and suprise form the scene in the movie. I really feel this was a huge mistake and his movies are worse off for it.