Games on the NFL Network

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Well, again, tho, the issue is not as much exclusivity as uncompetitive exclusivity due to antitrust.

SI

You get plenty of free college football and arena football games. The NFL has the exclusive right to determine how to televise its own games because it is the most popular professional football league in the world. But there are other free choices - not to mention at least 3 or 4 free NFL games a week in every corner of the country.

If you don't like it, form your own "competitive" league and televise it how you want.

[Craptacular]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

The Ticket has been exclusive on DirecTV for ten years. Why is it so important now and not, say, nine years ago? Or are you just talking about the games on NFL Network?

I'm not saying it is more important now. I think they've fucked it up from the beginning, and the current situation with the NFLN is making it worse.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The notion that a private league cannot determine when and where its own games are to be televised is beyond ridiculous. Do we have some "right" to watch every game? I'm surprised it took the NFL this long to create its own network and sell itself the rights to a number of games. MLB teams have been doing this for years (Cubs, Braves, Yankees). It's just good business practice to capitalize on the popularity of the sport they created. As far as the disputes with cable companies, it's simple supply and demand. It's freaking football, not some life and death, basic human right they are withholding. You want it, you pay for it.

Nowhere in my post do I say or imply anything about a private league not being able to determine when and where they show their games. I simply stated that not everyone can get the Sunday Ticket even if they want it (short of moving to a new home), and that I thought the NFL has made a series of mistakes in this regard. In my view, they are hurting themselves and screwing over many of their fans.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Saw this on KFFL,



Haven't seen any announcement from my cable company (Time Warner) about this but I hope they agree to show it so I can see what the channel offers.

Time Warner put up a message on their info channel and mine reads, the NFL's offer for a seven day freeview of the NFL network only applies to the New York City and New Jersey areas. It is not a nationwide offer.

[Ksyrup]

I completely forgot about last night's game until there was 1:34 left in the 4th quarter. I'm glad it sucked.

[Craptacular]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I completely forgot about last night's game until there was 1:34 left in the 4th quarter. I'm glad it sucked.

The more the games on NFLN suck, the better.

[BrianD]

After watching the NFLNetwork "product" last night, I have no interest in asking my cable company to get the channel. Aside from bad announcers (and I used to like Bryant Gumbel), we had bad camera work and people talking about details on a replay that were shown to the audience. I realize that their product will probably get better as time goes by, but I don't have much interest in paying more for my cable just to watch yet another network try to figure out how to televise the sport.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Craptacular

I simply stated that not everyone can get the Sunday Ticket even if they want it (short of moving to a new home), and that I thought the NFL has made a series of mistakes in this regard. In my view, they are hurting themselves and screwing over many of their fans.

I'd like to see why you think everyone can't get sunday ticket? To get it you simply need to subscribe to Direct TV and buy the package. Anyone in the world can get direcTV if they're willing to pay for it (its a sattelite system, it can be recieved anywhere the sattelite system reaches which at this point is nearly the entire northern hemisphere and parts of the southern(according to their installer who may or may not have accurate information))

Based on that possibility the only people who "cannot get" sunday ticket are those who "CHOOSE" not to get sunday ticket.

I'm not seeing your issue.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I'd like to see why you think everyone can't get sunday ticket? To get it you simply need to subscribe to Direct TV and buy the package. Anyone in the world can get direcTV if they're willing to pay for it (its a sattelite system, it can be recieved anywhere the sattelite system reaches which at this point is nearly the entire northern hemisphere and parts of the southern(according to their installer who may or may not have accurate information))

Based on that possibility the only people who "cannot get" sunday ticket are those who "CHOOSE" not to get sunday ticket.

I'm not seeing your issue.

Have you ever lived in an apartment, or a condo or house that has a association? Not everyone can get direcTV.

[RendeR]

I can understand some complexes will deny their customers access to direcTV, and that would force the moving issue, but if you own a home and allow some group of elitist homeowners to dictate how you live in your home you make the same choice, not to get it.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I can understand some complexes will deny their customers access to direcTV, and that would force the moving issue, but if you own a home and allow some group of elitist homeowners to dictate how you live in your home you make the same choice, not to get it.

That's not the way it works.

But anyway. If you don't have direcTV you can't get Sunday Ticket. Not everyone wants direcTV. Not to mention some people cannot afford direcTV or cable.

It's not as blank and white as you try to lay it out to be.

[ISiddiqui]

Bullshit... just because you choose to live in a home with restrictions doesn't mean you choose not to get Direct TV. Consent for one thing doesn't lead to consent for the other.

[RendeR]

The fact is exactly that, if you CHOOSE to allow an association to make rules which limit YOUR ability to get something you are therefore CHOOSING to not get that thing, either that or you CHOOSE to ignore the association and get it anyway.

One does indeed imply the latter.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The fact is exactly that, if you CHOOSE to allow an association to make rules which limit YOUR ability to get something you are therefore CHOOSING to not get that thing, either that or you CHOOSE to ignore the association and get it anyway.

One does indeed imply the latter.

I would think that 1) it's a huge, life changing event to change just because you can't watch a few football games and 2) you can't necessarily out-politik some asshat who wants to be head of the housing association, thus making it worse for you.

SI

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Under current federal regulations (which have been in place for a few years now), I don't believe a homeowners association, condo association, landlord, etc. can legally prevent you from mounting a dish on the property and subscribing to Direct TV.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Under current federal regulations (which have been in place for a few years now), I don't believe a homeowners association, condo association, landlord, etc. can legally prevent you from mounting a dish on the property and subscribing to Direct TV.

I don't know about that, but at the very least they can restrict the dish locations to very specific, non-obtrusive locations that are not easily visible. That's what they did in my CCR's.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes, that is correct. They are allowed to reasonably restrict it but not prohibit it altogether.

From the federal government's website:

Q: What types of restrictions are prohibited?

A: The rule prohibits restrictions that impair a person's ability to install, maintain, or use an antenna covered by the rule. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: (1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of; (2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) precludes a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Here's a quick FAQ sheet about the regulation if anyone was not aware of it and needs it to fight their condo association/landlord:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html#QA

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The NFL's ability to negotiate exclusive sports packages is under fire from the outgoing chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) twice said he would introduce legislation in the next session aimed at eliminating the league's freedom from antitrust laws.

Specter said the NFL should not use the exemption to negotiate exclusive programming packages such as DirecTV's Sunday Ticket, which allows viewers to watch teams outside their regional market.

"As I look at what the NFL is doing today with the NFL channel with the DirecTV . . . a lot of people, including myself, would like to be able to have that ticket," Specter said.

But the 1961 law that gives the NFL this freedom should not apply to DirecTV because it is not "sponsored programming," said Stephen Ross, a law professor at Penn State and chair of the school's sports law institute. He said Specter might be using the threat of legislation to pressure the NFL to make changes voluntarily.

Access to out-of-market football games was one of many consumer fairness issues addressed during the hearing. Another hot topic was whether cable providers should be forced to share sports broadcasting rights with every service provider in an area.

David Cohen, executive vice president of Comcast Corp., said his company has not made a local Philadelphia sports network it owns available to DirecTV because it is one way his company can stay competitive with the Sunday Ticket package.

"What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander," he said.

How exactly is it anti-trust when the NFL has no competition? If these Senators and congressmen want to take a stand, cut the NFL from giving them tax dollars to finance stadiums and such.

[Raiders Army]

Note to Bryant Gumbel: they don't give it up on downs if they punt! He's said that the past two series when the Chiefs and Raiders haven't made a 3rd down conversion.

I think he's gleeful that there's something worse out there than his announcing skills; however, that is very debatable.

[flere-imsaho]

Warren Sapp seems to be trying tonight. I'm hoping he'll get pissed enough to choke John Shoop later.

[flere-imsaho]

No offense, Chiefs and Raiders fans, but the best thing about this game is that I was able to see an entire episode of Scrubs during the halftime show.

[kcchief19]

Yeah, this game has had all the excitement of an exhibition game. And with Bryant Gumbel doing the play-by-play and NFL Network handling the broadcast, it has the sound and production values of an exhibition broadcast put together by a local affiliate.

Gumbel stands in stark contrast to Vermeil. Vermeil was a very commentator before he got back into coaching, and he was understandably rusty early on. But whereas Vermeil actually improved and hit his stride throughout the game, Gumbel still sucks just as much as he did when I saw him on Thanksgiving.

[Raiders Army]

Copy of the email I sent about an hour ago to [email protected]:

To whom it may concern,

Bryant Gumbel is a complete and utter idiot. Please get him off my TV screen. When a team does not make a 3rd down conversion, they do not "turn it over on downs." He also has called the wrong player's name numerous times. Replace him with Deion Sanders, Marshall Faulk, anyone. If you truly wish to bring the NFL Network to Time Warner, then get rid of him. In fact, if you wish the NFL Network to be successful on any medium, get rid of him. He's pathetic.

Thank you,

DirecTV and Time Warner subscriber

[kcchief19]

Oh, and Time Warner has the NFL Network setup for a our free week starting tomorrow. I'm looking through the program guide and laughing my ass off.

The NFL Network thinks it's on the level of ESPN. The NFL Network sets a record this week by broadcasting FOUR live games, two pro and two college. There will probably be a day during the next week when ESPN has that many live games in a day.

Following the game tonight, NFLN will show us NFL Total Access, a one-hour post-post game show about tonight's game. They will re-air the same broadcast six straight times overnight, interrupt at 4:30 for an NFL Films Presentation of something called "Just Throw It" with Rod Smith and Mike Leach. Then it's SEVEN more airings of the rerun of NFL Total Access.

From noon to 7 tomorrow, I'll get their "highlights and analysis" of each game during the day with post-game press conferences. Cool. That's followed at 7 by their highlight show, NFL GameDay. Following NFL Game Day will be NINE MORE repeats of NFL GameDay.

Betwen now and Monday afternoon when they begin their Monday pregame shows, they will show a grand total of FOUR different shows.

How is that on par with ESPN? Yeah, ESPN reruns SportsCenter ... they don't rerun the previous days SportsCenter nine times in a row. Heck, tomorrow ESPN, CBS and Fox are doing pregame shows, NFLN is rerunning tonight's post-game show.

Hillarious.

[kcchief19]

During a TV timeout, I flip over to the NFL Network to check out "The Red Zone." It's a simulcast of the Sirius NFL radio show with stats cycling through. It's like listening to the radio while surfing the net. Maximim NFL, baby!

From everything I've seen thus far, there is more original programming, better production values and more effort put into CSPAN than there is this thing. I'd be pissed as hell if Time Warner dumped a real basic channel with actual programming for this. It's ESPNews with better PR.

Nut up, NFL. Put this thing on digital cable, get into some households and develop some actually programming before you think you're on par with ESPN and Fox. From watching this thus far, my conclusion is the the NFLN people are seriously delusional in what they think passes for quality programming in this day and age.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, the Red Zone provides nothing to someone with the internet. I mean it's absolutely ridiculous that they think a lot of people are watching that.

[Craptacular]

Been away for a few days, but here is the key:

Originally Posted by FCC

The rule applies to individuals who place antennas that meet size limitations on property that they own or rent and that is within their exclusive use or control, including condominium owners and cooperative owners, and tenants who have an area where they have exclusive use, such as a balcony or patio, in which to install the antenna.

So, if you happen to have to a balcony or patio in your apartment or condo, AND you can position the satellite for the proper angle, this rule would let you mount it. Heck, you could mount it inside and have line-of-sight through the window if you must. However, you don't have the right to automatically mount an antenna on your apartment complex's roof, or attach it to the exterior wall outside your apartment. So, unless the condo or apartments allow you to mount an antenna in a common space, a lot of people can't get a dish. How many millions of people, especially in big cities, live in apartments that don't face the proper direction, don't have an outside deck or balcony, or even if they are lucky with the first two, have adjacent buildings (or trees) that block the line-of-sight? I would think the number of people in NYC that could technically get a dish mounted and pointed in the right direction is a lot less than the number of people who couldn't.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Craptacular

Been away for a few days, but here is the key:



So, if you happen to have to a balcony or patio in your apartment or condo, AND you can position the satellite for the proper angle, this rule would let you mount it. Heck, you could mount it inside and have line-of-sight through the window if you must. However, you don't have the right to automatically mount an antenna on your apartment complex's roof, or attach it to the exterior wall outside your apartment. So, unless the condo or apartments allow you to mount an antenna in a common space, a lot of people can't get a dish. How many millions of people, especially in big cities, live in apartments that don't face the proper direction, don't have an outside deck or balcony, or even if they are lucky with the first two, have adjacent buildings (or trees) that block the line-of-sight? I would think the number of people in NYC that could technically get a dish mounted and pointed in the right direction is a lot less than the number of people who couldn't.

I still don't understand what your problem is with this whole thing. If you live in a place where you can't get a dish, any games for your immediate local market that are isolated on non-antenna networks (ESPN, NFLN) are rebroadcast over a local network so that you can get it via antenna. So what's the problem? That relocated Vikings fans in NYC can't watch the Vikings game every week without DirecTV?

As for the programming during the games, why would NFL teams fund a network that actually offers appealing programming when their product is being shown on other networks? Of course programming during Sunday game time-slots is going to suck. In that case, the teams want you to watch the games, not the NFLN.

[Craptacular]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

I still don't understand what your problem is with this whole thing.

We're talking about two different things here (NFLN and the Sunday Ticket). First, I believe the NFL is moving backwards on one of the things that made them the most popular of the big sports ... the availability of games on free local networks. Unless the game didn't sellout, you used to be be assured of being able to watch your local team play every game. The NFL made shitloads of money that way, and would have continued to do so without showing a single game on ESPN or NFLN. They're losing the opportunity to make games available to as many of their fans as possible, and I think that's a mistake. I hope the NFLN flops. I don't blame the cable companies for fighting them on this.

As for the Sunday Ticket, you'd think they'd want to make that available to as many rabid, diehard NFL fans as possible. It's sad that Canada has better availability of Sunday Ticket than we do.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Actually, I believe the NFL likes cashing the whopper checks from DirectTV more than anything else with regards to Sunday Ticket. That's your answer.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Craptacular

We're talking about two different things here (NFLN and the Sunday Ticket). First, I believe the NFL is moving backwards on one of the things that made them the most popular of the big sports ... the availability of games on free local networks. Unless the game didn't sellout, you used to be be assured of being able to watch your local team play every game.

And, as I've said before, that remains the case today. You are assured of getting to see the local market team play every game (unless, as you mentioned, the game doesn't sell out). The rules about not being able to cut away from a local game in progress are the still in place, even with the rebroadcast NFLN games. So, again, I wonder what the big issue here is that has you hoping for NFLN to fail. Just a general dislike for the NFL, perhaps?

[ISiddiqui]

Why would he hate the NFL if he's posting in this thread? That's silly. These games probably would have been on ESPN or TNT had they not gotten on NFLN. Some pretty decent games (well, some of them) would have been available to more people and on Hi-Definition to those who don't get NFLN HD.

So, I'm rooting for the NFLN to fail as well... horribly. I'm not sure if you are going to call me an NFL hater for that.

[cuervo72]

I wish they had an NFL Network Classic instead. THAT I'd watch more.

[wade moore]

Ok.

All along I thought this was dumb of the NFL, but that was the extent of it.

Now I'm officially pissed.

Since I moved to Williamsburg, the Redskins have ALWAYS been the local team. We get their pre-season games, every regular season game, etc.

Guess what I don't get tonight? The Redskins game.

So this idea that you still get your local teams games is complete crap.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok.

All along I thought this was dumb of the NFL, but that was the extent of it.

Now I'm officially pissed.

Since I moved to Williamsburg, the Redskins have ALWAYS been the local team. We get their pre-season games, every regular season game, etc.

Guess what I don't get tonight? The Redskins game.

So this idea that you still get your local teams games is complete crap.

It's only for the primary market. You must live in a secondary Redskins market. According to what I've read, secondary market simulcasts are optional for the network affiliate. For the record, it sucks that you don't get the Redskins game. It's the kind of thing that would send me to a bar and then get me seriously thinking about a dish. Of course, I've rooted for an out of market team my whole life, so I bought the Ticket as soon as it became available. Maybe that's why I'm so out of touch with this thing. I don't depend on local broadcasts to see my team. In fact, until last season, I cursed a local broadcast on CBS, since I wasn't able to pickup the local HD feed with my antenna. That's one thing I enjoy about NFLN. Every game they carry can be picked up in HD. In that sense, they are already superior to the jokers at CBS.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

It's only for the primary market. You must live in a secondary Redskins market. According to what I've read, secondary market simulcasts are optional for the network affiliate. For the record, it sucks that you don't get the Redskins game. It's the kind of thing that would send me to a bar and then get me seriously thinking about a dish. Of course, I've rooted for an out of market team my whole life, so I bought the Ticket as soon as it became available. Maybe that's why I'm so out of touch with this thing. I don't depend on local broadcasts to see my team. In fact, until last season, I cursed a local broadcast on CBS, since I wasn't able to pickup the local HD feed with my antenna. That's one thing I enjoy about NFLN. Every game they carry can be picked up in HD. In that sense, they are already superior to the jokers at CBS.

Here's another prospective... I love the NFL but don't really have a favorite team. Here in upstate New York, 3 FUCKING hours from New York City, I especially have no interest in the Giants or Jets. That is, I am disinterested in them, not uninterested. If either of them are in a good game with heavy implications, I'll be the first to line up to watch it. But if the Chargers and Broncos are playing in a great game at the same time while the Jets play the Raiders or something, then I want to see that game instead.

So basically, I get saddled with the Giants & Jets all year round, making me unable to see a number of great games that I'd like to watch, and now they don't even show me the Giants Saturday night game? So they want to force me to be a Giants fan, but won't even show the game??

[Craptacular]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

And, as I've said before, that remains the case today. You are assured of getting to see the local market team play every game (unless, as you mentioned, the game doesn't sell out). The rules about not being able to cut away from a local game in progress are the still in place, even with the rebroadcast NFLN games. So, again, I wonder what the big issue here is that has you hoping for NFLN to fail. Just a general dislike for the NFL, perhaps?

OK, I guess I'm looking at it from more of a perspective like Wade Moore below. We are not in the "primary" market for the Packers, so we didn't get the Packer - Viking game, although we certainly would consider the Packers as our local team and would get all the Packer games under the old system. I like the NFL, but would still like to see this experiment fail. The old system allowed them to become the most popular league in the U.S. and reach almost every fan with a TV, and they made tons of money. What was the problem? Every other major sport has done something to fuck up, and I think the NFL is treading down that path.

[wade moore]

Yeah, I must be in the secondary market crap.

This is garbage. It's the only situation in which I cannot see the local team.

Only one that gets money out of this situation is the local Hooters, nice going NFL.

[Logan]

I'm sure I'm extremely late to the party, but being that this is the first NFL game on watching on the NFL Network...

How the hell is Bryant Gumbel an announcer? Not only is he horrible, but he sounds like he's doing this game from his HBO studio while simultaneously nodding at Bernie Goldberg.

[cuervo72]

I may be mistaken here...but this could be Tiki Barber's last game. Figured you might not have heard.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I may be mistaken here...but this could be Tiki Barber's last game. Figured you might not have heard.

Can't wait until he's sitting next to Tom Arnold on "Best Damn Sports Show Period!"

[cuervo72]

Well, from what they've mentioned on the NFLN broadcast (and they've only mentioned Tiki oh, 897 times so far), sounds like he wants to do a morning show (and has talked with Gumbel about it apparently).

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, from what they've mentioned on the NFLN broadcast (and they've only mentioned Tiki oh, 897 times so far), sounds like he wants to do a morning show (and has talked with Gumbel about it apparently).

He's going to end up having to talk about what Paris Hilton is up to, the latest Trump-Rosie feud, etc. All this after he made it seem like he was going to be a big-time journalist interviewing political candidates. The joke is on him.

[Mustang]

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

I'm really glad someone else heard that. It was definitely Collinsworth.

Edit: According to Gumbel, they don't have indigestion, it's due to an "open mic somewhere." Uh huh.

[Mustang]

*L*

They just said that it wasn't them.. it is an open mic somewhere.

Good god..

[Logan]

You can't beat me Mustang.

[Logan]

I might turn out to sound like an ass, but I'm 99% sure I'm right about this:

Gumbel just said that, as Tiki came up short on a 3rd down run, Washington will "take over on downs." This is of course, before a punt on 4th down. Am I wrong in saying that you only take over on downs when all 4 downs are used?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Did someone just belch on air in the NFL game? ??

I heard it earlier too and thought I was just hearing things...

How many times do we have to hear "And they turn the ball over on downs" before a punt?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I heard it earlier too and thought I was just hearing things...

How many times do we have to hear "And they turn the ball over on downs" before a punt?

Nice, so I'm not the only one who expects play-by-play guys to know the basic rules of the game.