NHL:EHM Good and Bad news ..

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Actually, I think Foz is dead on about this. For whatever reason, the expectation from developers, while not intentionial, is for us to be paying beta testers.

Why should I be spending $35-$50 on a game that isn't finished, or spend a discount to get a pre-order of a game that isn't finished? We, as consumers, are just as much to blame as the developers, because it's become accpeted that there will be multiple patches to a game.

IMHO, that's wrong. Look at the TDCB debacle. You had a game hyped to death. You had tons of of us with credit cards at the ready to buy it at it's release, and it was a dud, riddled with bugs that killed it.

Initial impressions are vital in any business. Look how quickly they pull TV shows off the air.

If there is enough potential in a release, we are patient enough to get the product that we want, or in FOF's case, the developer has a solid enough reputation that we are willing to wait it out.

Look at Maximum-Football. Do you think even if he developed what he promised that he could overcome the self inflicted blood bath that happened with that game?

Look at OOTP. There are promised features that have never come to fruition. There were noted bugs that were never fixed from version to version, yet more and more features were introduced and people bought it. Somehow, I knew that the switch over to SI would be a tough one the first year, so I didn't buy it. And judging by the reaction, I was right.

So here we are again, 6 million new features announced with smiley faces and the like and the orders will come. But, not from me. I've been fooled too many times, and I will not pay $34.95 to support a franchise that will have what it promises in March to be ironed out by September.

Without getting into the marketing issues with SI products over here, you could see why piracy was an issue. I was on a torrent site last night for a TV show and saw 5 or 6 diferent FM torrents on the first page.

(No, I didn't)

Bottom line, development processes need to be changed to work these kinks out before you come asking for money. Developers and consumers should be expecting finished products upon release that need tweaking at worst, not 95% finished products.

Great post. I agree with everything in this post. Also, it makes me appreciate Jim's approach more. FOF 2007 had some problems when it was released, but a much lower frequency than most games and Jim patched those problems much faster than most (if not all) other companies.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I'm sorry, piracy did not kill the EHM series.
A lack of sales did.

Up to that point, I would agree.

The question then becomes what was the root cause of the lack of sales.

Or, more specifically, what was the primary cause of the lack of sales.

And even more specifically, what was the primary cause of the lack of adequate sales to make continuing the series viable.

And that last distinction is where I believe the piracy comes into play. If we take the company's statement at face value (if we don't, then discussion becomes pretty moot, so just play along), then it isn't hard to follow a line from the piracy in key locations to the decision to end the series.

Reading between the lines a bit, it looks as though they were at least within tolerable limits of their sales expectations in many areas, but fell quite a bit short in what had been one of their primary locations, which has been attributed to the impact of piracy (something that our posters in that area seem to believe is plausible at worst).

Take me as an example. You're right, piracy had nothing to do with why I didn't buy the latest release, the amount of bugs at release & in the short time afterwards had everything to do with it. But they weren't counting on my purchase to keep the game afloat, they were counting on the Scandanavian sales to fall within certain parameters. It seems unlikely that (making up numbers here, just for illustration) that you would miss targets by 10% in every area except one but fall 60% short in that spot. Then if there's a connection made to a rise in piracy in that area, the causation isn't proven but does become a prime suspect.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It seems unlikely that (making up numbers here, just for illustration) that you would miss targets by 10% in every area except one but fall 60% short in that spot. Then if there's a connection made to a rise in piracy in that area, the causation isn't proven but does become a prime suspect.

Without taking back any of what I've said earlier about a rise in piracy in Scandinavia, I'd like to emphasize another issue I mentioned in my post. Scandinavians are very uncomfortable with using credit cards online. I think that if you want to break into the Scandinavian markets, online sale only is not going to work.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coder

I think that if you want to break into the Scandinavian markets, online sale only is not going to work.

I thought there was a retail/boxed version available there as well as the d'load version

[Coder]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I thought there was a retail/boxed version available there as well as the d'load version

Nope, download only.

[CraigSca]

I don't get it. I thought that's how a pirated version was available - from the CD version.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coder

Nope, download only.

My bad, thanks.

To be honest, I long since lost the ability to keep track of what version was available where with the SI products.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I don't get it. I thought that's how a pirated version was available - from the CD version.

I have no clue how pirates got a version working, but there is no CD version available in any stores or online-stores.

[Coder]

dola: I'm also curious to hear from SI how they advertised the game in Scandinavia. I don't read gaming-magazines, so I won't have seen any ads in there. The only advertisement of games I'm exposed to is when I visit an EB or any other computer game store. If I hadn't been at FOFC I wouldn't have known there was a new EHM out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coder

If I hadn't been at FOFC I wouldn't have known there was a new EHM out.

I could say that about pretty much every computer game I've played in the past several years. The same holds true about tabletop games & the forums at Delphi.

It's something I've looked at a few times, the problem is that the cost of advertising almost always outweighs the potential sales that would be generated for all but the largest of releases (think "Gears of War", at least in the US where the campaign was very large for the industry).

[Coder]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I could say that about pretty much every computer game I've played in the past several years. The same holds true about tabletop games & the forums at Delphi.

Speaking of which... (tabletop).. well.. I'm not going to threadjack, so I'll send you a PM instead

[scooter]

In SI's original post in their forums, Miles Jacobson stated that the game had been hacked prior to release. I don't remember exactly, but I think the demo was released first and then the actual game. I guess I would assume that someone hacked the demo or otherwise had help from the "inside" in order to have something posted prior to the full game's release.

[Karim]

Originally Posted by Coder

I don't think it's a good business decision to make all SI-games look so much alike for the simple reason that FM is so outstanding. The likeness in the games make a comparison with FM next to impossible and it makes all other games feel watered down.

This is a good point but I also understand that SI doesn't want to re-invent the wheel. They have a solid codebase (FM) from which to work from. A completely new, creative, re-design would add months and $ to the development of a non-football game.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Coder

I have no clue how pirates got a version working, but there is no CD version available in any stores or online-stores.

There was a very limited CD version that was sent to licensors for their stores and to give to their teams.