2008 NFL Offseason Thread

[Doug5984]

The Saints need 2 new CBs, 1 new safety, could use a couple LBs, 2 DTs... Basically on defense we have some good ends, 1 good LB, and 1 good S...

On offense we need to either resign or bring in new guy at C & G. Could use another possession WR (I pray to god they let Devery Henderson walk)...a TE, a power back (assuming Duece won't be back to what he was)...

More or less, it's going to most likely be a long painful offseason and season next year for us Saints fans unless we improve the defense (I think we've been saying this since the mid 90s after the dome patrol)

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions need 3 new CBS, at least 1 new safety, 2 new LBs, and at least 1 DE... Basically on defense we have one good linebacker (Sims), 1 ok defensive end (White), 1 enigmatic tackle (Rogers), and possibly 2 semi-decent safeties.

On offense, they need a new right tackle, better guards, a couple of new running backs, and a good tight end.

The Lions, once again, find themselves in a sorry state. Despite the Lions having the best record last year in the Millen era (7-9!!!), there's less reason to be hopeful for next than there has the two years prior.

It's really hard being a fan of this team.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Glad they came to their senses and decided to try and resign Briggs. I was hoping they'd let Grossman go and worry about a RB and improving the OL. As '06 proved, a solid D + a solid running game = a trip to the superbowl.

They basically have to bring in, basically, a brand new crop of receivers. The offense just seems to a mess that needs to rebuild in every spot, with the exception of tight end. I just don't know you go about doing it in one off-season.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by stevew

This should make Suburban Rhythmn smile

Dear God...how bad does he have to be to not make it to camp? Honestly, how much worse could one of these young guys be - McBean, is Shaun Nua still around!?!

Someone fwd that to me at work today and ruined my entire day.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Dear God...how bad does he have to be to not make it to camp? Honestly, how much worse could one of these young guys be - McBean, is Shaun Nua still around!?!

Someone fwd that to me at work today and ruined my entire day.

I wouldn't say it ruined my day, but it was a bit of a minor cock-punch. I half expect them to extend Cedric Wilson and Tuman tomorrow, or some other kind of dumbshit.

I'm really beginning to tire of our ownership, at least to some extent. For god sakes, the ticket waiting list is like 20 years. If you have to find another 10-20 million to bring in a quality FA occasionally, then jack up the tickets or something. Lord knows we sell a shitload of memorabilia every year too. Just quit retaining bumfuck stiffs every year, and ignore FA....that'd be a start.

[Galaxy]

I think the interesting wild card will be Derek Anderson. Will Cleveland keep him? If so, what do they do with Quinn?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I think the interesting wild card will be Derek Anderson. Will Cleveland keep him? If so, what do they do with Quinn?

I just can't see Cleveland willing to leave Quinn on the bench for another season. I'm sure the Browns would be happy with 1st and 3rd round picks from anybody willing to sign him...and I'm sure there are several teams who are likely very interested.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by stevew

I wouldn't say it ruined my day, but it was a bit of a minor cock-punch. I half expect them to extend Cedric Wilson and Tuman tomorrow, or some other kind of dumbshit.

I'm really beginning to tire of our ownership, at least to some extent. For god sakes, the ticket waiting list is like 20 years. If you have to find another 10-20 million to bring in a quality FA occasionally, then jack up the tickets or something. Lord knows we sell a shitload of memorabilia every year too. Just quit retaining bumfuck stiffs every year, and ignore FA....that'd be a start.

The more I think about it, it cracks me up. First, because this actually represent a pay cut!! 2 years/$2.28M is a paycut! It's like $300K bonus, $880K the first year, and $1M the 2nd. And no huge loss of that bonus $ if he's cut. He made like $1.6M last year!

Also...was 2 years and a bonus necessary? I mean, who were we competing against?!

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I just can't see Cleveland willing to leave Quinn on the bench for another season. I'm sure the Browns would be happy with 1st and 3rd round picks from anybody willing to sign him...and I'm sure there are several teams who are likely very interested.

I thought I read somewhere that Cleveland said they wouldn't mind keeping him on the bench since a lot of his contract is incentive based and they wouldn't have to pay him much more than the average backup QB.

[Greyroofoo]

dola,

Also nice to see the Colts sign Dallas Clark to a long term deal.

[stevew]

What the fuck?

The Steelers transitioned Max Starks for 6.9m. Franchising was 500k more. This makes no sense whatsoever, now we have no means to secure his rights for compensation.

Oh, and the guy started like 4 games last year....this is horrible.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by stevew

What the fuck?

The Steelers transitioned Max Starks for 6.9m. Franchising was 500k more. This makes no sense whatsoever, now we have no means to secure his rights for compensation.

Oh, and the guy started like 4 games last year....this is horrible.

We are on the same page again here.

If you are giving Starks $6.9M, go after a player in FA who would actually help us out. Problem is, once Jordan Gross got franchised, who is available?

I am sure the yinzer Nation will cry foul and offer Faneca that money, difference being Faneca wants long term. If he'd agree to $21M over 3 years, I'd do that. But not $49 over 7.

[Honolulu_Blue]

There are very strong rumours about a trade between Detroit and Denver. Detroit would be sending DT Shaun Rogers to Denver for... some as of yet to be identified player and/or draft pick.

I don't know about all of this. This reminds me of the Detroit/Denver trade last year. Detroit ended up getting poopy Tatum Bell and crappy George Foster for annoying and mediocare Dre Bly.

Shaun Rogers can be a dominating force. He was the Lions' best and most important defensive player coming into the season. The problem is that he's fat, lazy and irritating. He will disappear for long stretches. The Lions defense will be terrible without him, but they wont get any better with him.

After this trade, the Lions will have a grand total of 1.5 actual NFL quality defensive players on their roster: Ernie Sims (1) and Dwayne White (0.5). Woo hoo!

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

There are very strong rumours about a trade between Detroit and Denver. Detroit would be sending DT Shaun Rogers to Denver for... some as of yet to be identified player and/or draft pick.

I don't know about all of this. This reminds me of the Detroit/Denver trade last year. Detroit ended up getting poopy Tatum Bell and crappy George Foster for annoying and mediocare Dre Bly.

Shaun Rogers can be a dominating force. He was the Lions' best and most important defensive player coming into the season. The problem is that he's fat, lazy and irritating. He will disappear for long stretches. The Lions defense will be terrible without him, but they wont get any better with him.

After this trade, the Lions will have a grand total of 1.5 actual NFL quality defensive players on their roster: Ernie Sims (1) and Dwayne White (0.5). Woo hoo!

If it's a second, I say go for it. Rogers is such an enigma I just don't think he'll ever do much here. Better to start over (again .. again .. and again..) then let his salary eat up our books .. and well him to eat up our books

[Logan]

Saw something that said they would get a 4th for Rogers.

[MrDNA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I just can't see Cleveland willing to leave Quinn on the bench for another season. I'm sure the Browns would be happy with 1st and 3rd round picks from anybody willing to sign him...and I'm sure there are several teams who are likely very interested.

No doubt the Browns would happily take a 1st and 3rd for Anderson, especially with contract talks the way they are - but do you really see anyone giving that up for him? That's a lot to give up for a QB with flaws like his. I think the Browns might even just take a first for him...

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

We are on the same page again here.

If you are giving Starks $6.9M, go after a player in FA who would actually help us out. Problem is, once Jordan Gross got franchised, who is available?

I am sure the yinzer Nation will cry foul and offer Faneca that money, difference being Faneca wants long term. If he'd agree to $21M over 3 years, I'd do that. But not $49 over 7.

I think they transition Starks because they're not quite sure what his value is on the open market. If he get a ridiculous offer, you let him go. If it's reasonable, you match and lock him up. He can play both tackles and, if Smith comes back, will probably free Colon up to move inside to guard. This way they can take a long look at Simmons at center (or over in Faneca's spot on the left side where his mobility will help him more in the Steelers strong side pull running game). I still think they'll go after Jacob Bell to play guard as well and then draft a lineman on the first day. Maybe not first round, but certainly first day.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

I think they transition Starks because they're not quite sure what his value is on the open market. If he get a ridiculous offer, you let him go. If it's reasonable, you match and lock him up. He can play both tackles and, if Smith comes back, will probably free Colon up to move inside to guard. This way they can take a long look at Simmons at center (or over in Faneca's spot on the left side where his mobility will help him more in the Steelers strong side pull running game). I still think they'll go after Jacob Bell to play guard as well and then draft a lineman on the first day. Maybe not first round, but certainly first day.

I guess I'm more cautious that Starks discovers that he's only going to get a 5 year deal for 10m bonus on the open market, then says fuck it and signs the 6.9 guaranteed tender, figuring that he can get the same contract the next year(or close). 17m over the first 2 years of a deal is no chump change, that's my main worry.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I'm more cautious that Starks discovers that he's only going to get a 5 year deal for 10m bonus on the open market, then says fuck it and signs the 6.9 guaranteed tender, figuring that he can get the same contract the next year(or close). 17m over the first 2 years of a deal is no chump change, that's my main worry.

'

Do you ever let him actually sign the tender if you're the Steelers? You can rescind the tag at any time with no penalty, so if there isn't any real interest out there, why not just pull the tag (assuming you can't work out a suitable long-term deal with him yourself)?

[stevew]

Ideally, yeah, you pull the tag. But Stark's agent, if he's worth a damn, is not going to let his client get into a situation without a parachute. I can see him gauging offers for a few days, and then moving to plan B, signing the tender. I guess I just figure that at 26 you can take the tender, where if he was 36 it wouldn't be a good option.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I just can't see Cleveland willing to leave Quinn on the bench for another season. I'm sure the Browns would be happy with 1st and 3rd round picks from anybody willing to sign him...and I'm sure there are several teams who are likely very interested.

Derek Anderson to the Vikings.


write it up, have both parties sign and let's move on. it makes too much sense.

[cartman]

Didn't see this discussed here, but there is a bit of smoke wafting around the NFL that the Cowboys might make a run at Randy Moss, since it appears that his negotiations with the Pats seems to have stalled.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

Derek Anderson to the Vikings.


write it up, have both parties sign and let's move on. it makes too much sense.

Yep. Doubt they will want to give up 2 selections though.

[Anthony]

they already tried the rookie QB thing. didn't work, can't waste a talent like AP with a QB like Tavaris. get him an NFL-ready and proven QB and they'll make the playoffs for the next several years.

i can also see Baltimore going after Anderson. there you have it. Vikings or Ravens to aquire Anderson.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by stevew

Ideally, yeah, you pull the tag. But Stark's agent, if he's worth a damn, is not going to let his client get into a situation without a parachute. I can see him gauging offers for a few days, and then moving to plan B, signing the tender. I guess I just figure that at 26 you can take the tender, where if he was 36 it wouldn't be a good option.

I can see that. I can also see a situation where, if you're the club, you talk back and forth with him to try and hammer out a long term deal. The longer and slower his agent drags his feet, the more you consider pulling the tag. Especially if it doesn't seem like he's working things to try and get an offer sheet from another club. I just think it's highly unlikely that, although you're getting a decent amount of money this year, you risk playing offensive line in the NFL for a one year contract with absolutely no security about what you might get next year. Of course, if you think the Steelers will start you at tackle, that might increase your value, you might roll the dice...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by cartman

Didn't see this discussed here, but there is a bit of smoke wafting around the NFL that the Cowboys might make a run at Randy Moss, since it appears that his negotiations with the Pats seems to have stalled.

Do the Cowboys have the cap space for that, with all the quality players they have (Barber, Adams, ect.) as well as the big salaries of guys like Romo, Owens, Williams, and such?

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do the Cowboys have the cap space for that, with all the quality players they have (Barber, Adams, ect.) as well as the big salaries of guys like Romo, Owens, Williams, and such?

Not if they want to keep Adams, I would think. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but my understanding is they'll probably reduce their number a bit by signing Hamlin to a 2 or 3 year deal rather than the franchise tag. Barber's restricted and will probably get the highest tender, somewhere in the upper 2 million range, I think. But Adams is where the big money is going to come in, and I was surprised they gave Zach Thomas as much as they did.

All the financials aside, I really hope they don't go this route. I'm with Jeeber in the "tolerating Owens" camp, but Moss would just be too much for me to stomach. Draft a young receiver Dallas, for goodness sake.

[mrsimperless]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

dola,

Also nice to see the Colts sign Dallas Clark to a long term deal.

I don't understand how the Colts can afford to have the "highest paid [insert position here] in the league" at seemingly every position. So now we have QB, TE, DE and K? And our 2 receivers are probably way high on the list as well.

I would love to see a cap breakdown over the next few years. If only IRL were as simple as FOF cap management.

[JPhillips]

No way I would give up even a single first round pick for Anderson. The second half of the season he wasn't great and in his last four games he had more INTs than TDs and only broke 200 yds once. If I were coaching the Browns I'd start Quinn regardless of Anderson's trade status.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No way I would give up even a single first round pick for Anderson. The second half of the season he wasn't great and in his last four games he had more INTs than TDs and only broke 200 yds once. If I were coaching the Browns I'd start Quinn regardless of Anderson's trade status.

I'm in the same boat. If I were Cleveland I'd take whatever I could get for him this offseason and be thankful for what he gave me last season. 56.5% completion percentage, too many INTs, and a late season collapse are all red flags that would have me moving to Quinn next season.

If I'm a team considering him, there's no way I give up more than a 3rd rounder to get him.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

I don't understand how the Colts can afford to have the "highest paid [insert position here] in the league" at seemingly every position. So now we have QB, TE, DE and K? And our 2 receivers are probably way high on the list as well.

I would love to see a cap breakdown over the next few years. If only IRL were as simple as FOF cap management.

Because at every position on defense other than Freeney and Sanders we have the lowest paid players.

[MrDNA]

I think the Falcons might be willing to part with their two second rounders to get Anderson. As a Browns' fan, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[BishopMVP]

Patriots released Roosevelt Colvin today, saving over 5 million on the salary cap. If they don't re-sign him, Vernon Gholston becomes a possible pick at #7.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

I think the Falcons might be willing to part with their two second rounders to get Anderson. As a Browns' fan, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

I agree with those not too impressed with Anderson. He had a great start to the year, but it didn't end well. I didn't see too many Browns' games, but those I did watch made me realize that Anderson is an ok QB with some amazing receivers. Edwards and Winslow pulled down some remarkable catches on some questionably thrown balls.

Still, for a franchise that's struggled to find a QB for as long as the Browns have to trade away the first guy to put up decent numbers and show some promise in a long time would be very difficult to do on a few levels.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Patriots released Roosevelt Colvin today, saving over 5 million on the salary cap. If they don't re-sign him, Vernon Gholston becomes a possible pick at #7.

That whole Roosevelt Colvin thing didn't quite work out quite as expected when he signed with the Pats...

[st.cronin]

I think the way to look at the Browns qb situation is, what are the odds that Brady Quinn is BETTER than Derek Anderson.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Still, for a franchise that's struggled to find a QB for as long as the Browns have to trade away the first guy to put up decent numbers and show some promise in a long time would be very difficult to do on a few levels.

From what I've read, he's seeking something in the 6 year $58 million range. The Browns countered with 3 years and $18 million and they're pretty far apart. I think even 3 years at $6 mil per is far too much for a guy with his limited success when you have a first round pick that you traded up to get locked up and ready to go.

If he was already signed for next season, I'd go with him and get a better idea of what I had (unless I someone blew me away with an offer). This guy has to be signed and is looking for a long-term commitment from a team, though, and its just not worth it with Quinn around.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think the way to look at the Browns qb situation is, what are the odds that Brady Quinn is BETTER than Derek Anderson.

50/50?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

50/50?

I think that's about right. Which makes trading him for, say, 2 2nds a no-brainer imo.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That whole Roosevelt Colvin thing didn't quite work out quite as expected when he signed with the Pats...

Eh... he was fantastic before he got injured his first season, and very good this year (in fact, I could argue a healthy Colvin could have made the difference as a pass rusher on Eli in the SB.) No way to predict the injuries.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Eh... he was fantastic before he got injured his first season, and very good this year (in fact, I could argue a healthy Colvin could have made the difference as a pass rusher on Eli in the SB.) No way to predict the injuries.

Yeah, that hip injury sounded awful. At least there was a valid reason for things not working out unlike, say, all of the Detroit Lions' "big" free agent moves over the last few years like Az Hakim, Bill Schroeder, Damien Woody, Fernando Bryant, and Dre Bly. Those guys didn't work out because they all pretty much just sucked.

[BishopMVP]

The hip injury was bad, and it took 2 years to recover from. I would gladly take him back as a starting OLB for 2008, but 7.5 milion was too much (base was about 5.5.)

On the Derek Anderson front, I haven't watched enough Cleveland games to tell whether he is inaccurate, but if that's his problem Brady Quinn is no better. Samardzija, McKnight and to a lesser extent Stovall saved his ass numerous times in college.

[Anthony]

why should the Brown essentially start over from scratch and start Quinn? they have a Big Three in Anderson, Edwards and Lewis (Four, if you count Winslow). they can build on last year's momemtum. now you put in Quinn and you wipe the slate clean. and you aren't even guaranteed Quinn can duplicate what Anderson did. Browns have a chance to legitimately compete for the division crown vs. the Steelers for the 1st time since their inception. all that goes away once they go with the unproven Quinn.

this is why i wouldn't select QBs with my 1st round pick if i was a GM. too much money to be paid to the most important position, and as people like Tom Brady, Tony Romo and Marc Bulger have shown you need not risk a 1st round selection on a QB. so now the Browns are forced into giving an unproven guy like Quinn the job just because. stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

why should the Brown essentially start over from scratch and start Quinn? they have a Big Three in Anderson, Edwards and Lewis (Four, if you count Winslow). they can build on last year's momemtum. now you put in Quinn and you wipe the slate clean. and you aren't even guaranteed Quinn can duplicate what Anderson did. Browns have a chance to legitimately compete for the division crown vs. the Steelers for the 1st time since their inception. all that goes away once they go with the unproven Quinn.

this is why i wouldn't select QBs with my 1st round pick if i was a GM. too much money to be paid to the most important position, and as people like Tom Brady, Tony Romo and Marc Bulger have shown you need not risk a 1st round selection on a QB. so now the Browns are forced into giving an unproven guy like Quinn the job just because. stupid, stupid, stupid.

Can you guarantee that Anderson can duplicate his play from last year (which was rather mediocre to begin with)?

Remember that this is a guy that barely beat Charlie Frye out for the starting job last season, was up and down all year, and played badly at the end of the year.

Most people saw Quinn as a very solid pick for the Browns at 22 and they're in a situation where they have him locked up. Why take a risk by making a long term commitment to a player that has a total of 6-7 good games?

Yes, this is a situation where we can use hindsight to say that they shouldn't have taken Quinn, but looking at the roster as it is right now it doesn't make sense to give Anderson a long term contract at somewhere between 6 and 8 million per.

[DeToxRox]

VILMA TO LIONS?

The New York Jets are shopping linebacker Jonathan Vilma, a 4-3 defender who has struggled in coach Eric Mangini's 3-4 system.

A league source tells us that the current favorites to land Vilma are the Lions.

Another question mark regarding Vilma is a knee injury that significantly limited him in 2007. If healthy, he's capable of creating real havoc.

[Clark]

ESPN is reporting the Vikings are trading Troy Williamson to the Jaguars for a 6th round pick. What a huge bust he was for the Vikings. Maybe he will do better in a different environment.

[stevew]

I thought Anderson was fairly good, yeah he faded towards the end though. I think maybe their gameplanning wasn't adjusted like it could have been, however.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Not if they want to keep Adams, I would think. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but my understanding is they'll probably reduce their number a bit by signing Hamlin to a 2 or 3 year deal rather than the franchise tag. Barber's restricted and will probably get the highest tender, somewhere in the upper 2 million range, I think. But Adams is where the big money is going to come in, and I was surprised they gave Zach Thomas as much as they did.

All the financials aside, I really hope they don't go this route. I'm with Jeeber in the "tolerating Owens" camp, but Moss would just be too much for me to stomach. Draft a young receiver Dallas, for goodness sake.

They have more than enough money on hand so that they could restructure a lot of deals if they had to free up space.

[DeToxRox]

From profootballtalk.com

POSTED 9:03 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

SAMUEL SAID TO BE A "DONE DEAL" IN NEW ORLEANS

There's increasing chatter in league circles that the Saints have worked out a deal with cornerback Asante Samuel.

Yeah, it's tampering. But no one seems to care about that.

Samuel supposedly is looking for a contract with an average value in excess of $10 million per year.

[JPhillips]

83.4
73.8
96.5
71.6
83.3
57.1
53.4
75.4

12 tds-10 int-6.21 yds/att

Those second half numbers don't equal 6/58 mil to me. Anderson isn't much different than John Kitna IMO.