October 2008 Sales Numbers (RIP Sony's silver medal hopes)

[MikeVic]

Yeah I have a PS3 and wanted to try BluRay. Saw that prices for movies were too crazy for me, so I bought the cheapest movie that I'd still want to watch... and that was Troy, for like $20 or something.

I watched part of it, and didn't see the wow in quality, so I'm thinking it wasn't shot in HD and therefore I could've just bought it on DVD for $10 or whatever. I still buy DVDs and ask for them as gifts, and don't care much for BluRay.

[Ryan S]

I doubt bluray has bombed, I just think that the players are still too expensive for an average buyer to consider. In a couple of years when Bluray players are $100 or less and the disks are the same price a DVDs today it could pass DVD in popularity, but we are still in the early days of the format.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Another difference is that one of the nice things about DVD was that you could go back 10-20 years in movies and TV shows without losing much quality. Nowadays, unless it's shot specifically for HD, the Blu-Ray is worthless. It limits consumers to new movie releases. As someone who owns a ton of DVDs, the biggest asset was that I could buy up movies I loved from 10 years ago. Only about 20% of the DVDs I purchased were new releases.

Specifically shot for HD? That isn't how film works, With about any film they can get better results. Also you may want to look at the blu-ray selection before you talk about something you obviously have no clue about, they have old releases that go back 40+ years.

And with TV, if they really wanted to, they could release in 'standard' definition on less disc than DVD.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Specifically shot for HD? That isn't how film works, With about any film they can get better results. Also you may want to look at the blu-ray selection before you talk about something you obviously have no clue about, they have old releases that go back 40+ years.

And with TV, if they really wanted to, they could release in 'standard' definition on less disc than DVD.

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.

Yes. Anything shot on film going back about 20 years can be re-transferred at HD quality. Of course being doable and being done are two very different things. I doubt many older things will really be-transferred at that level of quality though. I have a copy of the Shinking on HDDVD and it really is stunning how good it looks!

Upscaling DVD players don't really do all that much -- they certainly don't produce an HD image. Depending on your TV and the quality of the DVD player it might actually make the picture worse if the TV is better at doing it on its own. IMO though regular DVD quality is good enough for most people though.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

IMO though regular DVD quality is good enough for most people though.

Agreed, but the same thing was said about VHS until DVD became cheap enough.

Obviously the difference is VHS was much larger to store, and a bit more cumbersome to use so whether that argument will have the same play this time around we'll never really know until/unless blu-ray becomes cheap enough that there is no reason not to buy it over DVD.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Amazon has 2,000 blu-ray discs. They have 307,000 DVDs.

There is no comparison between a upconverting DVD player and a blu-ray player. Still good enough? yes, but the same thing? no effin way.

As far as the library size, I don't know how that has anything to do with anything you were trying to argue. Besides the fact that about 150,000 of those DVDs are crap, special editions, wide screens, re-releases, compilations of the same films ect ect. Blu-ray hasn't had half the time DVD has to build a library.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

There is no comparison between a upconverting DVD player and a blu-ray player. Still good enough? yes, but the same thing? no effin way.

As far as the library size, I don't know how that has anything to do with anything you were trying to argue. Besides the fact that about 150,000 of those DVDs are crap, special editions, wide screens, re-releases, compilations of the same films ect ect. Blu-ray hasn't had half the time DVD has to build a library.

So Blu-Ray is superior quality and the selection isn't a factor in anyone's decision. It's just a fluke that no one buys it.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Agreed, but the same thing was said about VHS until DVD became cheap enough.

Obviously the difference is VHS was much larger to store, and a bit more cumbersome to use so whether that argument will have the same play this time around we'll never really know until/unless blu-ray becomes cheap enough that there is no reason not to buy it over DVD.

Reasons to switch to Blu-Ray are much smaller than the reasons to switch from VHS. DVD gave instant access and chapter stops with no rewinding necessary...and most importantly, consistent quality. Not necessarily from one release to another, but the 100th view of a movie was the same quality as the first. Another big deal with cheap (compared to VHS) movies available the same day you could rent.

All Blu-Ray gives that is new is better quality. Very little extra convenience, no new longevity. One could make the argument that VHS was "good enough", but degrading quality killed that. If DVD is "good enough", there really is no other benefit. If the prices become the same so it doesn't matter what you buy...is that really a win?

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So Blu-Ray is superior quality and the selection isn't a factor in anyone's decision. It's just a fluke that no one buys it.

The players and the media are too expensive for it to be mainstream right now. There was once a time when DVD was in a similar position (though the upgrade from VHS to DVD was bigger).

Unless you think that there is no future for high def movies, bluray is going to become the new standard for movie discs.

[Ryan S]

Another huge factor in the slow growth of bluray is the fact that you need an HDTV. You could watch DVDs on your 14" set, but there is no point in buying a bluray player if you don't have an HD ready TV.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

The players and the media are too expensive for it to be mainstream right now. There was once a time when DVD was in a similar position (though the upgrade from VHS to DVD was bigger).

Unless you think that there is no future for high def movies, bluray is going to become the new standard for movie discs.

I think there is a future for high def movies. I just think it'll be digital and not on discs.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Another huge factor in the slow growth of bluray is the fact that you need an HDTV. You could watch DVDs on your 14" set, but there is no point in buying a bluray player if you don't have an HD ready TV.

I also think a huge factor is the fact that people already own a lot of DVDs of shows/movies they like. I have around 200 DVDs and there is really no point in "upgrading" them.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think there is a future for high def movies. I just think it'll be digital and not on discs.

It is digital for you, not for my 55 year old mother, not for myself, not for 35 year old mom who isn't popping a disc into a player seems so much easier then anything 'digital' or downloading. I like how you (or someone else maybe) said blu ray may end up being a good niche market for super nerds, but the same thing could be said about digital/download. Just because you like digital download/PPV and the like, doesn't mean the masses will. A lot of people will always feel a disk is not only the easier way to watch a movie, but also the safest ("What happens if my HD crashes? I don't understand how this digital download works, do I have to hook my computer up to my TV?").

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I also think a huge factor is the fact that people already own a lot of DVDs of shows/movies they like. I have around 200 DVDs and there is really no point in "upgrading" them.

Ah, another reason I think blu ray still has a future. You have 200 DVDs. So do a lot of other people. When their DVD player dies they are not going to say screw those DVD I will just watch PPV from now on, they are more likely to upgrade to a blu ray player then do that. Some will get a blu ray, some may just buy another $20 DVD player every year. Either way, blu ray grows some that way as well.

Both ways will end up being around IMO. Both will have markets.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Cringer

It is digital for you, not for my 55 year old mother, not for myself, not for 35 year old mom who isn't popping a disc into a player seems so much easier then anything 'digital' or downloading. I like how you (or someone else maybe) said blu ray may end up being a good niche market for super nerds, but the same thing could be said about digital/download. Just because you like digital download/PPV and the like, doesn't mean the masses will. A lot of people will always feel a disk is not only the easier way to watch a movie, but also the safest ("What happens if my HD crashes? I don't understand how this digital download works, do I have to hook my computer up to my TV?").

The music companies said the same thing about digital music. Digital is simply cheaper and easier to use. Most cable companies will be offering their own Netflix style service in the next two years. We'll have Netflix streaming through 360's. VOD services are expanding dramatically. Set-top boxes are coming out by numerous companies.

Digital is simply the future. Sure there will be people like you mentioned who will buy Blu-Ray discs, just as their are still people who buy compact discs for their music. But it will not be the primary method of watching movies.

Originally Posted by Cringer

Ah, another reason I think blu ray still has a future. You have 200 DVDs. So do a lot of other people. When their DVD player dies they are not going to say screw those DVD I will just watch PPV from now on, they are more likely to upgrade to a blu ray player then do that. Some will get a blu ray, some may just buy another $20 DVD player every year. Either way, blu ray grows some that way as well.

I just think it's tough to convince someone to upgrade when DVD player's can be bought for literally 10% the price of a Blu-Ray player.

While I own 200 DVDs, I haven't bought many at all in the past year and a half. Basically just a few TV shows I liked. I switched to Netflix which was cheaper and more efficient. If there is a new movie in HD that I really want to see, I just pay the $3.95 on VOD. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but there are just too many options available for me now to stick to one format.

Originally Posted by Cringer

Both ways will end up being around IMO. Both will have markets.

I agree, although I don't think Blu-Ray will come remotely close to what DVD has done. There are too many good options these days for movie fans. Plus, Blu-Ray is still years away from being competitively priced. I think we're still looking at 3-4 years before they have the selection and pricing that can match today's current DVDs. And in 3-4 years, I just think digital will be so far ahead of where it is now, it'll be tough to compete.

[Deattribution]

Digital will be limited by bandwidth and download speeds. The only people who can offer on demand HD quality content is the cable companies and their services are limited to what they feel will be enough to keep subscribers (for free content) and will make PPV money for paid.

360's, set top boxes and all the other crap will have the 10 to 15 hour download waits for a HD movie on top of all the other previously mentioned concerns. Top that off with a company like Comcast limiting bandwidth use and it ain't happening anytime soon.

[Eaglesfan27]

Satellite is also providing HD movies that you can queue easily. I downloaded a movie that looked great earlier this week.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The music companies said the same thing about digital music. Digital is simply cheaper and easier to use. Most cable companies will be offering their own Netflix style service in the next two years. We'll have Netflix streaming through 360's. VOD services are expanding dramatically. Set-top boxes are coming out by numerous companies.

Digital is simply the future. Sure there will be people like you mentioned who will buy Blu-Ray discs, just as their are still people who buy compact discs for their music. But it will not be the primary method of watching movies.


I just think it's tough to convince someone to upgrade when DVD player's can be bought for literally 10% the price of a Blu-Ray player.

While I own 200 DVDs, I haven't bought many at all in the past year and a half. Basically just a few TV shows I liked. I switched to Netflix which was cheaper and more efficient. If there is a new movie in HD that I really want to see, I just pay the $3.95 on VOD. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but there are just too many options available for me now to stick to one format.


I agree, although I don't think Blu-Ray will come remotely close to what DVD has done. There are too many good options these days for movie fans. Plus, Blu-Ray is still years away from being competitively priced. I think we're still looking at 3-4 years before they have the selection and pricing that can match today's current DVDs. And in 3-4 years, I just think digital will be so far ahead of where it is now, it'll be tough to compete.

That is my point, yet you won't apply it to digital for some reason. There are options, and they will continue to be there. I won't use VOD because that is a cable thing, I won't get cable because cable doesn't have NFL Sunday Ticket or MLS Direct Kick. I can get pay per view, but why use PPV when I can now go down to the corner store and rent the same movie for $.99 from Red Box (great things by the way) and pick up a Coke at the same time.

We have a lot of choices, and not just for moives. One may not dominate, I am not sure why people always have to argue that one has to. The past doesn't always show how the future will be.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The music companies said the same thing about digital music. Digital is simply cheaper and easier to use. Most cable companies will be offering their own Netflix style service in the next two years. We'll have Netflix streaming through 360's. VOD services are expanding dramatically. Set-top boxes are coming out by numerous companies.

Downloading music is viable because the files are very small and 99.9999% of computers have at least a CD burner to provide a method of backing up the application.

Maybe you don't care about having a physical copy of things you buy, but if I am spending $10 to buy a CD as a digital download, I'm going to take the 5 minutes and burn a copy. If I bought a movie as a download, I would burn a copy, but with the price of blank DVDs, or in the future blank BR discs, It is just easier to buy from the store.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Downloading music is viable because the files are very small and 99.9999% of computers have at least a CD burner to provide a method of backing up the application.

Maybe you don't care about having a physical copy of things you buy, but if I am spending $10 to buy a CD as a digital download, I'm going to take the 5 minutes and burn a copy. If I bought a movie as a download, I would burn a copy, but with the price of blank DVDs, or in the future blank BR discs, It is just easier to buy from the store.

Music files are small to us now but would have seemed huge 15 years ago. In 5 years, who is to say that movie files won't be considered small to us. It seems that many of you who are trying to make cases against digital are of the belief that digital technology won't make any advancements.

As for backups, why not just make a digital backup somewhere else? It's not like hard drive space will be expensive in a few years. Heck, you can get 1TB for a little over $100 these days.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Music files are small to us now but would have seemed huge 15 years ago. In 5 years, who is to say that movie files won't be considered small to us. It seems that many of you who are trying to make cases against digital are of the belief that digital technology won't make any advancements.

As for backups, why not just make a digital backup somewhere else? It's not like hard drive space will be expensive in a few years. Heck, you can get 1TB for a little over $100 these days.

Sounds like it is getting more expensive now, and not as simple as it first looked. Maybe I will just buy that disk that goes in and out of the machine.

[gstelmack]

When the compression formats are good enough / the TV providers are willing to provide enough bandwidth so I don't get pixellation in high-action sequences, then I will believe digital has arrived. But unless it's a low-action chick-flick, I'm getting tired of compression artifacts in my HD On-Demand and HBOHD movies. And I loves me an action flick...

[BillJasper]

I still think it is going to take a major studio to release something big exclusively on Blu-Ray. Perhaps Sony does it with Quantum of Solace?

People aren't going to switch to Blu-Ray until it has something they want and can't get anywhere else.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I still think it is going to take a major studio to release something big exclusively on Blu-Ray. Perhaps Sony does it with Quantum of Solace?

People aren't going to switch to Blu-Ray until it has something they want and can't get anywhere else.

As is noted in this research, the biggest holdback right now for Blu-ray is clearly the price.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/files/DEGWhitePaper.pdf

The sharp decrease in price of both the players and discs in recent months is a direct response to that. With sub-$150 Blu-ray players now a reality this holiday season if you shop around, that hurdle appears to have been crossed. A Blu-ray player can be had for $50-60 more than a upconverting DVD player. Also, the research by the Digital Entertainment Guild seems to conflict with Microsoft's PR assertion that the HD consumer market is trending to digital download. The opposite seems to be true.

I was also shocked to see that 3 in 10 HDTV owners already have a Blu-ray player (PS3 or stand-alone). That should bode well for Blu-ray given the increased emphasis on HD entertainment this holiday season by retailers.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Surprise release upcoming from Sony this holiday season. "Afrika" has been rebranded as "National Geographic: Afrika" and will be available via Blu-ray and PSN in the next few weeks.

[Big Fo]

Boom Blox 2 (working title) is being made for the Wii, no word on when it will be out.

gamespot.com link

[MJ4H]

Awesome.

[sterlingice]

That's a game I need to get when it drops in price or when there's some sort of sale.

SI

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's a game I need to get when it drops in price or when there's some sort of sale.

SI

$20 at Target on Black Friday.

[sterlingice]

Well, damn. That's just peachy

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Unbelievable. Eidos gets outed again for trying to keep low scores for the upcoming Tomb Raider game from being posted until well after release. You would have thought they would have learned their lesson after the whole Kane and Lynch review fiasco.........

videogaming247 » Blog Archive » UK Tomb Raider: Underworld reviews under 8/10 silenced until Monday [Update]

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So can my upsampling DVD player. Are you telling me a movie from 20 years ago on Blu-Ray is going to be that much better?

Absolutely. I have "The Cowboys" (you know, the old John Wayne movie from 1972) on Blu-Ray and it looks phenomenal. Amazingly crisp picture. My buddy and I watched it and were amazed at how awesome they made it look. It's like night and day from the DVD copy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Unbelievable. Eidos gets outed again for trying to keep low scores for the upcoming Tomb Raider game from being posted until well after release. You would have thought they would have learned their lesson after the whole Kane and Lynch review fiasco.........

videogaming247 » Blog Archive » UK Tomb Raider: Underworld reviews under 8/10 silenced until Monday [Update]

Can a company really silence a review? I mean how can they really punish someone? Seems there is some moral issues that some of these review sites have to deal with. Not just Eidos fault here.

People should flood the review sites giving the game a 1 out of 10.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can a company really silence a review? I mean how can they really punish someone? Seems there is some moral issues that some of these review sites have to deal with. Not just Eidos fault here.

People should flood the review sites giving the game a 1 out of 10.

Out of all the companies, I don't see how Eidos could strong arm a reviewer or site since they haven't been relevant in about a decade.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

Absolutely. I have "The Cowboys" (you know, the old John Wayne movie from 1972) on Blu-Ray and it looks phenomenal. Amazingly crisp picture. My buddy and I watched it and were amazed at how awesome they made it look. It's like night and day from the DVD copy.

Everyone forgets that film has a much higher resolution.

[MJ4H]

Not everyone!

[Eaglesfan27]

THQ cancels the PS3 version of the Destroy No Humans 3, citing "development problems" as the primary reason for canceling the PS3 version. They are still releasing a 360 version next week:

THQ Destroying no Humans on PS3 - News at GameSpot


The Wii has sold over 7 million units in Japan. That is approximately 3 times more than the PS3 totals:

Wii hits 7 million in Japan - News at GameSpot

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is going to be an interesting holiday season as far as Sony goes. The PS3 isn't priced well at all at this point and will struggle during this holiday season. The 360 just has too many good deals at this point, mostly due to the cost advantage of their console.

On the other hand, the Blu-ray stand-alone players have hit the magic price point at just the right time. They're expected to do extremely well this holiday season.

It'll be interesting to see just how poorly the PS3 does (the spring '09 price cuts can't come quick enough) and if the upswing in Blu-ray business will help to offset those losses.

[Cringer]

I missed out on all the $20 games at Target, kind of disappointed. Brothers at Arms: Hell's Highway on all consoles, and Boom Blox were two games I wanted. Too slow, oh well. I did pick up Call of Duty 5 for PS3 since I am now addicted to multiplayer for it, it was $10 off.

[Big Fo]

Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much but there was a lot of interest in the $200 Sony and Samsung Blu-Ray players at Best Buy today.

Like Cringer I missed out on Boom Blox for $20. Oh well.

[Big Fo]

According to Microsoft they kicked some butt over Black Friday and the holiday weekend.

Xbox 360 Registers Biggest Black Friday in Its History

Xbox 360 consoles and games sell at record levels; outsells PlayStation 3 by three-to-one ratio.

REDMOND, Wash., Dec 01, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system kicked off the holidays with record- breaking console sales on one of the biggest shopping weekends of the year in the U.S. Retailers reported Xbox 360 console sales over the Black Friday weekend were on pace to beat previous years, outselling the PlayStation 3 by a three-to-one ratio and estimating a 25 percent increase from Xbox 360 Black Friday sales figures from 2007.

Strong game sales rounded out a historic Black Friday for Xbox 360, with record-paced software sales continuing for key Microsoft titles, such as "Gears of War 2," "Fable II," and "Lips." Xbox 360 continues to have the highest game attach rate of any console at 8.1 games per console.

"We entered into the Black Friday sales period with cautious optimism, knowing that dollar for dollar, Xbox 360 offers more social entertainment value than any other console on the market," said Don Mattrick, senior vice president of the Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft. "Record Black Friday sales in the U.S., coupled with our existing global install base of 25 million and an online community of more than 14 million Xbox LIVE members, have laid the groundwork for continued global sales momentum in 2009."

Xbox 360 sales have also surged worldwide since the September price drop, outselling the PlayStation 3 week over week across Europe. Console sales in Europe are up as much as 400 percent, with sales nearly double year over year and reaching 7 million consoles sold this generation.

With a mass-market price point starting at $199.99 worldwide (estimated retail price) for Xbox 360 Arcade, a games lineup of more broad-appeal social titles than any other platform, and the recently launched New Xbox Experience, Xbox 360 is leading the industry and inviting everyone to play.

The European numbers are nice as well and they've even been keeping pace with the PS3 in Japan over the last month or two.

[sterlingice]

So how'd the Wii do?

And the lack of numbers is just annoying

SI

[Big Fo]

November 2007:

Wii - 981k
360 - 777k
PS3 - 466k

The Wii numbers for Nov. 08 should be well over a million due to increased production. Maybe it will beat the PS2's November record of 1.3 million in 2002.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

So how'd the Wii do?

And the lack of numbers is just annoying

SI

Agreed. The lack of numbers in the MS and Sony releases are very telling.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Agreed. The lack of numbers in the MS and Sony releases are very telling.

Not sure that they are. Here is an article I found from VG Chartz:

Did somebody say recession? VG Chartz presents an early look at hardware and software sales from Thanksgiving week, traditionally the start of the holiday season in the US and home to black friday - the biggest single retail day of the year. Note that these figures represent early estimates based on only a small sample of data - the finalised figures will be released in the next few days.

As expected, the big winner during last week was Nintendo. According to our early estimates, over 1.7 million Wii and DS units were sold last week in the Americas (with DS selling more than Wii), eclipsing the 1 million units of Nintendo hardware sold during the same period last year. This represents around $300 million in sales with a similar amount grossed for software. Top software performers were Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii, Guitar Hero: World Tour, Rock Band, Wii Music, New Super Mario Bros, Brain Age and Nerf-N-Strike.
Microsoft will also be pleased with their performance last week, over half a million Xbox360s were sold with around half of those being the $199 Arcade SKU. Strong software performers were Call of Duty: World at War, Gears of War 2, Guitar Hero: World Tour and Rock Band 2.
Last but by no means least, Sony saw some good increases for black friday with PS3 selling around 225,000 units and PSP managing to move slightly more (around 275,000). PS2 also performed well on around 175,000 units. Strong software performers were LittleBigPlanet, Resistance 2, Call of Duty: World at War and Guitar Hero: World Tour.
So overall that is around 2.9 million units of hardware sold compared to just over 2 million for Thanksgiving week last year. It seems that price is king in 2008 and with the current financial situation the big winners for the holidays will be Wii, DS and Xbox360 Arcade - assuming of course that manufacturers can cope with demand!


If their estimates for Thanksgiving week are even close, Nintendo and Microsoft are going to have ridiculously large months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Not sure that they are. Here is an article I found from VG Chartz:

If their estimates for Thanksgiving week are even close, Nintendo and Microsoft are going to have ridiculously large months.

Yes, but I should have obviously clarified why they were telling. Sure, the 360 and PS3 sold units, but the fact that they didn't report the numbers illustrates that they're trying to avoid showing just how badly they're getting hammered by Nintendo at this point. That's been the case for some time now.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yes, but I should have obviously clarified why they were telling. Sure, the 360 and PS3 sold units, but the fact that they didn't report the numbers illustrates that they're trying to avoid showing just how badly they're getting hammered by Nintendo at this point. That's been the case for some time now.

You seriously think Sony and MS are competing with the Wii at this point?

That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. Both realize it, no matter what they say. The Wii has crushed them in this generation and that won't change.

[Big Fo]

I found an article from last year that says MS sold 310k XBox 360's during Black Friday weekend 2007. That plus the 25% increase mentioned in the PR this year is about 380k.

Nintendo sold 350k Wiis and a ridiculous 653k DS's last year during the holiday weekend.

Between the 360 and the Wii Black Friday weekend 2007 represented 36-40% of November 2007's total sales so if that held true we'd be looking at 950k-1.05m 360's sold in November, a very impressive number. Obviously Microsoft did well getting the arcade unit down to $199 for the holiday season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You seriously think Sony and MS are competing with the Wii at this point?

That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. Both realize it, no matter what they say. The Wii has crushed them in this generation and that won't change.

Would they like to? Sure. Do they have a chance? No.

[Big Fo]

800,000 Wiis were sold during Thanksgiving weekend. Crazy.

The Guardian