Soccer Thread 2009-10

[sovereignstar]

What in the fuck are they doing?

[sovereignstar]

Of course.

[DaddyTorgo]

ballgame.

that second goal was deserved...the first one not so much.

god those were some ugly attempts at trapping them offside

[Easy Mac]

They were pressing far too much after the first goal

[sovereignstar]

Did a fan just run onto the field?

[Easy Mac]

This is embarrasing

[DaddyTorgo]

*cursing and shutting off the game*

i won't be posting in this thread for the next hour or so...lest I say some very insensitive ethnic slurs

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

*cursing and shutting off the game*

i won't be posting in this thread for the next hour or so...lest I say some very insensitive ethnic slurs

Yeah, your INS comments are embarrassing enough. See if you can't contain yourself.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Yeah, your INS comments are embarrassing enough. See if you can't contain yourself.

i dunno - not that embarrassing IMO. i'm anti illegal-immigrants and would love to see as many as possible deported (and a path to citizenship for the rest). If we want to deport a large # it only makes sense to go where they are (most cost effective) and one could assume that there might be a significant concentration at the game.

[sovereignstar]

Take that shit to some POL thread then.

[Big Fo]

Bah, it's gotten ugly here.

That terrible penalty call changed the game completely but even before then the US wasn't creating much at all.

Mexico should win this, they've actually brought some of their best players.

Gio such a diving little cunt.

[Easy Mac]

So, does it mean anything that for the last 2 major tourney finals, both our A and B teams got throttled in the 2nd half?

[Big Fo]

Fitness is typically considered one of the US team's strengths but they definitely played like shit after that first goal today.

[Cringer]

I don't like the PK call, but supposedly there was a good tug on the jersey that started the fall. I still haven't seen it though. After that Vela ate up the offside trap, and the US has given up since. The all MLS roster just wasn't enough for this Mex team.

[Chief Rum]

I know that the Confed Cup performance, and taking a B team to the Gold Cup final is peobably enough to banish all talk of this, but that said...Bradley? Can't think the US Soccer people are going to be all too thrilled with the team boss after this one.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I don't like the PK call, but supposedly there was a good tug on the jersey that started the fall. I still haven't seen it though. After that Vela ate up the offside trap, and the US has given up since. The all MLS roster just wasn't enough for this Mex team.

There was no tug. Dos Santos clearly dove into Heaps, he even threw him an elbow.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

There was no tug. Dos Santos clearly dove into Heaps, he even threw him an elbow.

Like I said, I never saw it. I know Univision replayed the exact moment it happened 5 minutes after the PK and my wife said she saw what they were talking about. I was not looking at the TV when it happened. Some guys online (not here) are saying there was a shirt tug as well.

Even if that hadn't been called, they clearly would have had one later on, which wasn't given to them probably because they already had the first given to them.

It all sucks in the end though. Hopefully August comes and the 'A' team boys can come out of Azteca with a point at least.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I know that the Confed Cup performance, and taking a B team to the Gold Cup final is peobably enough to banish all talk of this, but that said...Bradley? Can't think the US Soccer people are going to be all too thrilled with the team boss after this one.

I'm not happy about it, but it's the B/C team. (FFS, Jay Heaps was starting.) And the next game is at Azteca where we've never won. If we lose by more than 2 goals maybe there'll be some rumbling outside the internets, but I doubt it.

[RainMaker]

Why did he use the B team for this? Isn't the Gold Cup kind of a big deal around here? Doesn't it earn you a spot in the next Confed Cup? I can understand it in the earlier rounds but shouldn't the best team be out there in the Finals?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why did he use the B team for this? Isn't the Gold Cup kind of a big deal around here? Doesn't it earn you a spot in the next Confed Cup? I can understand it in the earlier rounds but shouldn't the best team be out there in the Finals?

I think there's only one Confed Cup every four years, so this is just for bragging rights. The 2011 Gold Cup winner will go to the 2013 Confed Cup in Brazil.

And, IMO, this wasn't even the American B team. More like a mix of B and C. I don't think the team can change from round to round, except perhaps injury allowances. I know they let players leave (Adu, for instance), but I don't think new players can be brought in unless there's special circumstances involved.

All that said, still a very disappointing match of course.

[RainMaker]

My bad, I thought the Gold Cup was every 4 years.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't think the team can change from round to round, except perhaps injury allowances. I know they let players leave (Adu, for instance), but I don't think new players can be brought in unless there's special circumstances involved.

They let Adu, Davies, Feilhaber go back and could have recalled them (as they did Parkhurst when Conrad was injured) and CONCACAF also weirdly gave them 7 additional roster spots (guys like Altidore, Donovan, Onyewu were listed on them) for participating in the Confederations Cup they didn't ask for, so we actually had 30 total guys on the roster that could have played. Like you said, it doesn't matter for the next Confed Cup, and it was only worth bragging rights, but it's still worth bragging rights against Mexico in North America. After the World Cup, that's pretty much the most important thing we play for since we'll never play in the Euro Cup and I doubt they'll be inviting us back to the Copa America anytime soon after we sent a similar B/C team down there and got trounced in 2007 (when we focused on the Gold Cup).

EDIT - i guess I would be less annoyed if a major factor in our beating wasn't Jay Heaps. At the other positions, at least you can argue you want to play some players to see who can fit as backups, maybe even surprise and challenge for a starting role. Once you get down to Jay Heaps, you know he sucks and he's never going to get any better. Try a young guy with potential, maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[DaddyTorgo]

5-0??? ZOINKS!!!

Good thing I turned the TV off when it was 3-0

[Cringer]

hxxp://www.corrieredilivorno.com/index.php/news/articolo/1031-Occhi-su-Mandelli

Once again, in Italian....but...

Franceschini andrà così a rinforzare un reparto che necessita di almeno un altro tassello per poter affrontare la serie A senza timori reverenziali: scartato Obodo, rimasto vittima dei suoi tentennamenti Budel, si aspetta l'accordo per il mediano a stelle e strisce Clark. La firma sul contratto è attesa per i prossimi giorni visto che Spinelli ha raggiunto l'accordo con gli Houston Dynamo.

Google translates the last sentence fairly well for me to confirm what I read. Ricardo Clark should sign with Livorno in the next few days. I guess agreement with the Dynamo/MLS has been finalized.

[Cringer]

A different story (maybe just slow and behind a little since they are not the local Livorno paper?)

hxxp://soccer365.com/us_news/story_27709150835.php

S365 Exclusive: Livorno Sweating Clark Offer
2009-07-27 14:59:20

by Greg Seltzer for Soccer365

Serie A risers Livorno have tabled an official summer transfer bid for Houston Dynamo midfielder Ricardo Clark and are awaiting a verdict from America, Soccer365 has learned.

Contrary to Italian reports, which claimed the U.S. international would not be able to join the team until Major League Soccer's season ends in November, he would move to Tuscany immediately upon full completion of an agreement.

Under this circumstance, the only way Clark - who is in the final year of his MLS contract - would be allowed to close out the term in Texas would be with a short loan, a caveat which is clearly not in his suitor's plans. Livorno, who will learn their 2009/10 fixture list this week, begin league play near the end of August.

"We made an offer to the MLS to have Clark now," Livorno CEO Roberto Spinelli told Soccer365 on Monday morning. "We are waiting for a reply."

Meanwhile, he says the Dark Reds chase of Los Angeles Galaxy star Landon Donovan is essentially on hold, with either the player, his club or MLS unwilling to talk deal for the time being.

"For Donovan, nothing is moving as he has to finish the season in the U.S.," Spinelli stated. "We will work on this after September."

[Cringer]

Some people (like myself) will now be able to get the August 12th USA-Mexico game in English, without paying extra....

We signed a petition, we sent emails, we moaned and complained, all in an effort to get NBC Universal to do something about the availability of the USA-Mexico match on August 12th.

I don't know if they listened, but it's clear they're making an effort to make the match available to a wider audience. While the game will still be broadcast on Telemundo's sister channel mun2, that network will now be available free of charge to DirecTV and Dish Network subscribers on August 12th.

The free preview of the channel will make it available in 56 million households that day, a significant increase over the 31 million homes that currently receive it.

In addition to this free preview news, Telemundo/mun2 also announced that the English-language broadcast team for the qualifier will be Phil Schoen and Marcelo Balboa.

A statement by mun2 Senior Vice Predident and General Manager Alex Pels:

"By offering a live a major sporting event on mun2 free-of-charge to the industry, we hope that all soccer fans and sports enthusiasts will recognize mun2 as uniquely American, game changing, connected and smart - our brand attributes. It is a great opportunity for new viewers to sample our quality programming and to see an historic game produced by Deportes Telemundo, the best sports team in the business."

This is fairly big news, and I'm happy to see that the match will be available to many more English-speaking Americans than before. Telemundo has played this smart, putting their other property (mun2) in front of a larger audience, giving the American soccer fans what they want, and leveraging the interest in the game.

If you're a cable subscriber, call your cable company and demand that they take advantage of this free preview; while DirecTV and Dish Network have signed on, cable companies may not unless pushed to do so by their customers.

Give me your thoughts on this news.

hxxp://www.matchfitusa.com/2009/07/usa-mexico-mun2-news.html

[DaddyTorgo]

my thoughts - i better find somewhere to watch this game or i will have to kill someone

[AlexB]

For one of the very few times in my life, I agree with Mourinho: I think they have somehow pulled off the deal of the century - they have a player who is at least as good as Ibrahimovic, plus £38m and Hleb for a year. Hleb is no world star, but he's a good player, and considering Man City were willing to pay £25m for Eto'o, you could argue Zlatan is valued by Barca at around £65-70m!!!!

Barca would have paid over the odds with just the cash part of the deal, but add two players as well...

[cartman]

Wow, Inter did get the best of that deal. I definitely agree that Eto'o is equivalent to Ibrahimovic. But there must be some sort of curse with strikers and Inter. They never seem to want to stick around very long.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

For one of the very few times in my life, I agree with Mourinho: I think they have somehow pulled off the deal of the century - they have a player who is at least as good as Ibrahimovic, plus £38m and Hleb for a year. Hleb is no world star, but he's a good player, and considering Man City were willing to pay £25m for Eto'o, you could argue Zlatan is valued by Barca at around £65-70m!!!!

Barca would have paid over the odds with just the cash part of the deal, but add two players as well...

Barca paid €43.25 million for Ibra and valued the transfer at at €66 million according to their financial vice-president. As an Inter fan, I'm not quite sure what to think. Obviously Ibra has been the main reason Inter has been winning titles in Italy for the last few years, so we'll have to see how Eto'o impacts the Italian game. I'm waiting to see who they buy with that money before I make a conclusion. They DESPERATELY need a creative midfielder/playmaker and I'd personally like to see them try to get Sneijder from Madrid. But from the straight-up look at the deal, I think Barca paid a bit much. Giving up one superstar, that much cash, and another player for one superstar doesn't seem that wise on the surface.

[SirFozzie]

Setanta North America's future is now seemingly assured:

RTÉ Business: BCI gives green light to new Setanta

Good to see Setanta US will be sticking around.

[Cringer]

Too bad it costs $15/month for that one channel on DirecTV. I would love to have it and FSC, but then FSC would be another $10/month. Sure I get other channels on the FSC package, but they are worthless to me. $25 for two channels is crap. Give me those two only for $10 and I would do it. That won't happen though so I will stick with MLS Direct Kick and everything Telefutura/Telemundo/Univision give me.

[Big Fo]

DC United just missed a great chance to take a 2-1 lead over Firpo in the CONCACAF Champions League.

Man City have agreed a fee with Arsenal for Kolo Toure.

Jose Mourinho wants to succeed SAF at Man Utd, I wouldn't mind that if he promises not to play too defensively.

[sovereignstar]

How many years do you think red nose has left? If City underachieves I could see Mourinho as a serious option to replace Hughes.

[Big Fo]

Last summer SAF said he would retire within three seasons, after this season he said he would continue as long as his health would let him. At one point he was going to retire in 2002. So I don't think even he knows.

[Big Fo]

Fox Soccer Report says Clark will join Livorno in January so Houston will be able to keep him around for the MLS Playoffs and the group stages of the CONCACAF Champions League.

[MrBug708]

Sooner would have been better because Livorno might be regulated by then

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Fox Soccer Report says Clark will join Livorno in January so Houston will be able to keep him around for the MLS Playoffs and the group stages of the CONCACAF Champions League.

Wow, I am surprised if that is true. Happily surprised as a Dynamo fan though. I would prefer to have Clark and Holden in the middle instead of Holden and Cameron. Cameron is a good versatile player, but he is not Clark and I prefer to have him playing at center back which is what got him onto the All-Star team.

[sovereignstar]

Toure in, Elano out (to Galatasaray). Next up: Joleon Lescott for an absurd amount of money.

It's nice to pay reasonable amounts for players, but it's kind of funny to pretend like it even makes any flipping difference with Sheikh Mansour at the helm.

Here's a good article on some of the other things that are changing within the City infrastructure -- http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...n-1760528.html

[Big Fo]

Xabi Alonso has handed in a transfer request, hopefully he gets his dream move to Real Madrid. Javier Mascherano also wants to leave for Barcelona but I doubt Liverpool will sell both in the same summer, even though that would be nice.

The sale of one or both of those guys will hurt Liverpool's chances of winning the league, without XA (or a really good replacement) they'll finish third imo.

[SirFozzie]

This is a post I just put up at Big Soccer, in the TV Satellite & Radio area about ESPN's impact on the US Soccer world, going forward:
ESPN - The King of the Soccer Jungle in the US?

There's a joke about the lion, the King of the Jungle, and where it sleeps (namely, anywhere it wants to.)

Right now, that royalty in the U.S. Soccer world is ESPN, and it's going to be very interesting to see where it wants to lie down.

John Skipper, executive VP for content for ESPN, is a big soccer fan, and there are signs that interest in soccer overseas has an audience here in the united states is growing (Look at the roaring success of the recent World Football Challenge, where the six games between Chelsea, Club America, AC Milan and Inter Milan drew over 330,000 fans for just six games, an average of 56,000 per game)

THere's two factors that also apply to ESPN's entry into the market. The market has developed sufficiently for the king of the jungle to take interest, with GOL TV, Fox Soccer Channel and Setanta Sports US all attracting enough viewers to be self-sufficient, but there's no true one-and-only in there, no other King of the Jungle that ESPN would have to push out of the way.

That's not to say Fox doesn't lead, but depending how you like your footy flavored, you may want the big names and bright lights (FSC's coverage of the EPL and the Serie A), your futbol to be spicy and cosmopolitan (GOL TV's La Liga, Bundesliga, Brazillian football and regional Central/Southern American leagues), or traditionally British, (Setanta Sports US's EPL/SPL coverage).

So there's no King of this particular jungle, and the time frame is right, with the US fairly certain for qualifying for World Cup 2010, and having the run of a lifetime at the Confederations Cup. Also, the TV rights windows are there.. I'll get more into that in a moment.

Unless you want to be squashed like a pancake, there are only two ways that you can deal with a "King of the Jungle" like ESPN when they move into your neighborhood. You can work with the King, or you can work against the King.

GOL TV is taking the first choice. They have worked with ESPN, sublicensing half the La Liga games to ESPN, and if rumors are to be believed, half the Bundesliga games as well. The problems is, if the king ever wants more then you're willing to give, you're going to find it hard to say no then.

Fox Soccer Channel is taking the second choice. They know how vulnerable they are to ESPN right now. They agressively out bid ESPN for the 2010 and beyond Champions League package. But they still must hold on to the two major contracts they hold. Both the English Premier League and the Serie A contracts expire after this season. If ESPN or a combination of the other players in the market take one of these two contracts, they are hurt. If they lose both rights packages, they'll have the Champions League, MLS, and that's it. That's trouble.

Setanta US is neither fish nor fowl this year. It's obvious to one and all that if they lose the half of the English Premier League they now have in the next contract, they're done as a factor here in the US. So, the question is, does Setanta side with one or both of the two sides in the EPL Bidding War? And if so, what terms do they get? Do they side with ESPN, the $30 Billion-big dog in the US Market, or do they side with fellow traveler Fox Soccer Channel? Or do they wait and come, hat in hand, to whoever wins the EPL contract, and hopes to get whatever they can?

The picture for the next few years is cloudy. ESPN is currently storing their soccer purchases on ESPN Deportes. If they get the English Premier League, it's very likely that there will be an "ESPN Soccer" network, Whether that is ESPN Deportes, converting ESPN Classic, a completely new network, or even purchasing one of the three existing networks in the US and bringing it under the ESPN banner.

If I had to be pressed into making a guess, only knowing what's been out in the public, here's what I consider most likely.


A) ESPN outbids everyone for the EPL contract for 2010-11 to 2012-13. They will sublicense some of their games to either Fox Soccer Channel or Setanta Sports US. They create or convert an existing channel to become ESPN International.

B) FSC does keep a hold of the Serie A rights in the next contract. If they do not keep at least part of the EPL rights, they will be hurt, but the acquisition of the Champions League rights will mitigate a lot of that damage.

C) Setanta Sports US has to hope that ESPN considers them a better partner then Fox Soccer Channel. If Setanta Sports loses out on the EPL rights, they may limp along for a while, buying every international sport they can to try to hold on, but I do not think Setanta Sports US would be viable by the time the 2013-14 contract bidding starts.

D) GolTV keeps growing at a mininum rate, their partnership with ESPN keeping them safe, but have to be careful that they do not lose La Liga to ESPN when those rights expire. It's possible, but not probable,. that they look to grow even further by picking up Serie A rights (either in an agreement with FSC/ESPN, or solo), but I do not consider that particularly likely.

[whomario]

follow-up on the Ibrahimovic/Eto´o transfer : Hleb isn´t part of the deal after all since he just went to his former team Stuttgart on loan for the year which is just a huge win-win situation for both. He gets the undisputed role of midfield leader at a club where he played for 5 year allready from 2000-2005 before going to Arsenal (so while the personel has changed quite a bit since then obviously he´s still going to be familiar with off-the field stuff and the area) and Stuttgart get a potentially world class midfielder for a year.
They are also now after Progrebnjak, would fit in nicely in place of Gomez. Who is damn impressive btw, saw him for Bayern twice against Milan/ManU last 2 days in a torunament. Didn´t score, but he´s an unbelievable athlete for a guy near 6´3, extremely mobile, fast and strong. Prototypical target striker.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Read this morning a rumor that Liverpool had agreed terms with Aquilani contingent on Alonso leaving Anfield. Not a bad replacement.

[Big Fo]

Kenny Cooper has moved from FC Dallas to TSV 1860 Munich of the 2. Bundesliga, no fee was mentioned.

MLS Official Site

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

follow-up on the Ibrahimovic/Eto´o transfer : Hleb isn´t part of the deal after all since he just went to his former team Stuttgart on loan for the year which is just a huge win-win situation for both. He gets the undisputed role of midfield leader at a club where he played for 5 year allready from 2000-2005 before going to Arsenal (so while the personel has changed quite a bit since then obviously he´s still going to be familiar with off-the field stuff and the area) and Stuttgart get a potentially world class midfielder for a year.
They are also now after Progrebnjak, would fit in nicely in place of Gomez. Who is damn impressive btw, saw him for Bayern twice against Milan/ManU last 2 days in a torunament. Didn´t score, but he´s an unbelievable athlete for a guy near 6´3, extremely mobile, fast and strong. Prototypical target striker.

Proggy was a fucking beast for me on FM 2009 for a couple years. Anything within 5 yards of his head he'd score.

[SirFozzie]

RIP Sir Bobby Robson at the age of 76. I'm glad Setanta played the testimonial match for his cancer foundation last week.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

This is a post I just put up at Big Soccer, in the TV Satellite & Radio area about ESPN's impact on the US Soccer world, going forward:
ESPN - The King of the Soccer Jungle in the US?

There's a joke about the lion, the King of the Jungle, and where it sleeps (namely, anywhere it wants to.)

Right now, that royalty in the U.S. Soccer world is ESPN, and it's going to be very interesting to see where it wants to lie down.

John Skipper, executive VP for content for ESPN, is a big soccer fan, and there are signs that interest in soccer overseas has an audience here in the united states is growing (Look at the roaring success of the recent World Football Challenge, where the six games between Chelsea, Club America, AC Milan and Inter Milan drew over 330,000 fans for just six games, an average of 56,000 per game)

THere's two factors that also apply to ESPN's entry into the market. The market has developed sufficiently for the king of the jungle to take interest, with GOL TV, Fox Soccer Channel and Setanta Sports US all attracting enough viewers to be self-sufficient, but there's no true one-and-only in there, no other King of the Jungle that ESPN would have to push out of the way.

That's not to say Fox doesn't lead, but depending how you like your footy flavored, you may want the big names and bright lights (FSC's coverage of the EPL and the Serie A), your futbol to be spicy and cosmopolitan (GOL TV's La Liga, Bundesliga, Brazillian football and regional Central/Southern American leagues), or traditionally British, (Setanta Sports US's EPL/SPL coverage).

So there's no King of this particular jungle, and the time frame is right, with the US fairly certain for qualifying for World Cup 2010, and having the run of a lifetime at the Confederations Cup. Also, the TV rights windows are there.. I'll get more into that in a moment.

Unless you want to be squashed like a pancake, there are only two ways that you can deal with a "King of the Jungle" like ESPN when they move into your neighborhood. You can work with the King, or you can work against the King.

GOL TV is taking the first choice. They have worked with ESPN, sublicensing half the La Liga games to ESPN, and if rumors are to be believed, half the Bundesliga games as well. The problems is, if the king ever wants more then you're willing to give, you're going to find it hard to say no then.

Fox Soccer Channel is taking the second choice. They know how vulnerable they are to ESPN right now. They agressively out bid ESPN for the 2010 and beyond Champions League package. But they still must hold on to the two major contracts they hold. Both the English Premier League and the Serie A contracts expire after this season. If ESPN or a combination of the other players in the market take one of these two contracts, they are hurt. If they lose both rights packages, they'll have the Champions League, MLS, and that's it. That's trouble.

Setanta US is neither fish nor fowl this year. It's obvious to one and all that if they lose the half of the English Premier League they now have in the next contract, they're done as a factor here in the US. So, the question is, does Setanta side with one or both of the two sides in the EPL Bidding War? And if so, what terms do they get? Do they side with ESPN, the $30 Billion-big dog in the US Market, or do they side with fellow traveler Fox Soccer Channel? Or do they wait and come, hat in hand, to whoever wins the EPL contract, and hopes to get whatever they can?

The picture for the next few years is cloudy. ESPN is currently storing their soccer purchases on ESPN Deportes. If they get the English Premier League, it's very likely that there will be an "ESPN Soccer" network, Whether that is ESPN Deportes, converting ESPN Classic, a completely new network, or even purchasing one of the three existing networks in the US and bringing it under the ESPN banner.

If I had to be pressed into making a guess, only knowing what's been out in the public, here's what I consider most likely.


A) ESPN outbids everyone for the EPL contract for 2010-11 to 2012-13. They will sublicense some of their games to either Fox Soccer Channel or Setanta Sports US. They create or convert an existing channel to become ESPN International.

B) FSC does keep a hold of the Serie A rights in the next contract. If they do not keep at least part of the EPL rights, they will be hurt, but the acquisition of the Champions League rights will mitigate a lot of that damage.

C) Setanta Sports US has to hope that ESPN considers them a better partner then Fox Soccer Channel. If Setanta Sports loses out on the EPL rights, they may limp along for a while, buying every international sport they can to try to hold on, but I do not think Setanta Sports US would be viable by the time the 2013-14 contract bidding starts.

D) GolTV keeps growing at a mininum rate, their partnership with ESPN keeping them safe, but have to be careful that they do not lose La Liga to ESPN when those rights expire. It's possible, but not probable,. that they look to grow even further by picking up Serie A rights (either in an agreement with FSC/ESPN, or solo), but I do not consider that particularly likely.

It would be nice if one of the cable companies in my area (Knology or Comcast) carried FSC.

[SirFozzie]

Comcast doesn't carry FSC????

[terpkristin]

I don't believe Comcast carries FSC in their basic/normal package.

I <3 FiOS, never thought I'd get FSC, but I do.

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

comcast carries it on their 2nd tier. with hbo and the movies channels and shit