AMC's new murder mystery series "The Killing"

[Schmidty]

I thought we already know who did it? Wasn't this show already wrapped up in Denmark? My wife DVRs it and watches, but I never pay attention because I thought it was already over. Guess I should have just asked her.

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I thought we already know who did it? Wasn't this show already wrapped up in Denmark? My wife DVRs it and watches, but I never pay attention because I thought it was already over. Guess I should have just asked her.

No, the writers say it will be different.

Then again, simply a bad translation from Danish would accomplish the same thing, would it not?

[Sweed]

Before the last show I thought it could end up being the mousy campaign manager, Jamie Wright. Still could be. He does have access to everything in the campaign IE cars and now with the emails, computers.

I've had trouble with this thought though in that he'd have to be a Jekyle & Hyde type. God knows if he tried to kill her with the persona we see in the show Rosie probably would have kicked the shit out of him

[Desnudo]

They're doing a second season of this? Meaning they aren't going to wrap it up the Rosie case in season 1?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

They're doing a second season of this? Meaning they aren't going to wrap it up the Rosie case in season 1?

next season will be a new case

[Carman Bulldog]

Regarding the Orpheus email address...

Spoiler

I found it weird that in his inbox for that account, he was also receiving emails from Gwen about the campaign and what not.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Regarding the Orpheus email address...

Spoiler

I found it weird that in his inbox for that account, he was also receiving emails from Gwen about the campaign and what not.

Maybe he uses a unified inbox! Ha! (Making up for possible plot holes!)

[jeff061]

Spoiler

I'm assuming his wife drowned? I forget, I know a drunk driver killed her. If so I think it's safe to say he did it, I don't think it's another false suspect. I'd be amazed. I like him being mentally unstable about his wife's death and him revisiting it as a motive.

Think at this point only a really lame twist could change it up.

[jeff061]

Well I have pretty much zero interest in next year after that.

[Radii]

I'm speechless.

Spoiler

Wait no I'm not I have a ton to say about what just happened on my TV, none of it good.

This should not carry over to next season, no freaking way. If everything had happened the same way but there was a couple extra minutes at the end that showed who the killer was in some way and that he got away with it I think I would have *loved* it... the cops don't always get the right guy, devastation everywhere. Linden never finds out evidence was faked(maybe we know, a call to Holder about it, something like that) and the case is considered closed and the bad guy wins. That would be a brilliant ending.

But they implied that this is carrying over to next season. Linden knows the pictures were faked, and its just a big cliffhanger? Complete horseshit imo. I hate it with a passion.

This doesn't begin to cover the stupidity of requesting the pictures then faking them, that's going to come up in court, zero chance of conviction. If they want planted evidence that's fine, its different than usual, go for it, but not something so ridiculously obvious to prove that its faked.

[Radii]

Haha I hopped on twitter and looked for #thekilling:

Spoiler

I feel the need to apologize to everyone who I convinced to watch #TheKilling. I was right about #FallingSkies being good right, guys?

I'm going to start a movement to legalize murder just to keep #TheKilling from coming back for season 2.

I really can't remember ever being so angry about a TV show having flat out wasted my time and insulted my intelligence. #thekilling

Was the AMC's ending of #TheKilling dif from the original? Cuz I don't remember "Hated it with fury of a 1000 suns" in the Guardian writeup

Ditto. RT @scott_tobias: Wow. I'm glad I gave up on #TheKilling weeks ago, because my Twitter feed just projectile vomited.

Detective Linden is almost as bad at getting on planes as she is at police work. #TheKIlling

[jeff061]

lol, awesome.

[samifan24]

I can't believe they did that to us. So much for rewarding your audience's patience.

[stevew]

omg, are you guys fucking serious?

So glad I bailed on this piece of shit. Fuck this.

[sabotai]

I missed the last few episodes, but curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to see the end*. One of those times that I hate being a curious person.

* -

Spoiler

And by end, I mean who the killer was. Fuck you AMC.

[jeff061]

Spoiler

I could almost wait until next season if there was still a story to tell. There isn't, it's been milked dry and whoever really killed her isn't going to match up to a crazy politician trying to recreate his wife so he can feel something.

That's not even getting into the ridiculous amount of coincidences that have to fall through to believe he isn't the killer. They can't be this stupid, right? He had to be the original killer and they changed it up when they decided to go for season 2? He drove another girl to a lake and asked what it's like to drown, they all look like his wife, his girlfriend says he was out all night during the murder and comes back in the morning soaking wet, wtf? Hell they even went into how he can compartmentalize his emotions to explain is public persona. Not to mention a whole season foreshadowing how traumatic his wife's death was to him.

Are they all lying? They going to write those off the same way they did with Holder and the picture?

[jeff061]

Ha, twitter feed is golden.

Seriously, I could write a better murder mystery than #TheKilling & so far all I've got is, "The koala did it." Boom. Greenlight.

[Jas_lov]

I should have bailed much earlier. How did they not do a more expansive search and find the shoe much earlier? The mayor is going to have a top notch defense and there's no way faked evidence would hold up. One call to the toll booth and it's over. It's just too unbelievable.

[tyketime]

Wow - not exactly the ending I had hoped or expected either. I also wonder if they didn't change it up because of the Season 2 renewal.

Spoiler

Who does Holder get in the car with? The only way this works is if he is somehow linked to the current mayor's camp. Desperate Politicians will do just about anything. And by the time they untangle the Richmond mess, the election would be over, right? Many more questions than answers. I have a feeling this may blow up without some serious damage control.

[Doug5984]

I wish I'd have bailed once it went downhill mid season...it was so good the first few episodes, then they gave us this shit.

Spoiler

Is Richmond dead, I'm assuming Belko shot him at the end?

[tyketime]

I have read a fair amount of reviews and comments from fans and the Producer. Almost all I've read has been very negative. The producer is putting her blinders on. She also said there will be no announcements of Season 2 casting, etc..

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Doug5984

I wish I'd have bailed once it went downhill mid season...it was so good the first few episodes, then they gave us this shit.

Spoiler

Is Richmond dead, I'm assuming Belko shot him at the end?

Spoiler

It all depends on whether or not they want the character back next season. I'm at the point where I don't believe that plot or story line will play much of a part in that decision. If it did, Holder wouldn't be there next season, 'cause I'm pretty sure you can't fake evidence in such a grand and colossal way(after previously falsifying a warrant), and continue to be a police officer.

[OldGiants]

Bring back RUBICON, AMC

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Spoiler

It all depends on whether or not they want the character back next season. I'm at the point where I don't believe that plot or story line will play much of a part in that decision. If it did, Holder wouldn't be there next season, 'cause I'm pretty sure you can't fake evidence in such a grand and colossal way(after previously falsifying a warrant), and continue to be a police officer.

Spoiler

I've read a few interviews and reviews, there's nothing concrete from the creators, but I think there's an assumption that Holder wasn't really trying to close the case, but that he was working with someone powerful to frame Richmond and that will be a big part of the start of season 2.

There are tons and tons of plot holes to that line of thinking (Holder's aggression in wanting to get the teacher early on) but plot holes haven't seemed to stop anything in this show so far!

One of the biggest criticisms I've read and I agree with it is that they had started spending a lot of time building up Holder as a likable but conflicted character, one of the last positives the show had going for it really, and they threw it away. Additionally, two episodes ago they spent an entire hour working on character development between Linden and Holder and having Holder pull this stunt basically invalidates all of that and makes it even a bigger waste of our time and insult to the audience.

[Sweed]

What a fucking joke pretty much sums it up for me.

Is this supposed to bring us back to watch next year ensuring producers and writers another year of work? They had a good chance getting me back if they had a real ending this year. As of now I don't particularly give a shit about who did or didn't do it.

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Sweed

What a fucking joke pretty much sums it up for me.

Is this supposed to bring us back to watch next year ensuring producers and writers another year of work? They had a good chance getting me back if they had a real ending this year. As of now I don't particularly give a shit about who did or didn't do it.

I pretty much don't give a shit either- and by the time season 2 rolls around I won't even come close to giving a shit. I'll save myself an hour a week and watch something else.

[Peregrine]

I have to say that I enjoyed some elements of this show, but it became so slipshod as the season went along, I was just watching it for completeness. Have to say the way things played out in the final episode really pissed me off though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to the season finale, it's kind of ironic (or something) that the audience climbed back up over 2m, up more than 25% from the previous week ... only to get an episode that seems destined to drive away viewers.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12

Oh my god I hate this fucking show. Yet I keep watching. Sigh.

I still feel the same way, but at least I will not be watching anymore.

Jesus Christ what a shitty way to wrap that up.

[samifan24]

As much as I hated that ending, I am still thinking about it a day later and I will definitely watch the season two premiere even though I don't think I should. It's strangely alluring and almost like I want to see what the writers could possibly come up with to justify that ending.

Spoiler

I would've been fine with everything except for the part involving Holder. I'm fine if Darren killed her and if Balko kills Darren but Holder was my favorite character and, as others have said, they just spent a whole hour just on his relationship with his partner. It's like they put his bit in just because they thought they needed a twist.

Oh and not divulging the killer was lame, too.

[gstelmack]

Bill Simmons chimes in: Bill Simmons on The Killing - Grantland

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Bill Simmons chimes in: Bill Simmons on The Killing - Grantland

Which borrows on the theme (that AMC did serious brand damage) that showed up on a TV-oriented blog earlier in the day.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which borrows on the theme (that AMC did serious brand damage)

I've seen that in a number of places. Simmons is friends w/ hitfix.com's Alan Sepinwall (I listen to both of their podcasts) and I assume they had talked about the show a bunch as well.

The next series that AMC gets behind will not be an auto-watch for me, and that will be a first since I got into Breaking Bad and Mad Men. I'm probably just echoing what I've read elsewhere when I say this, but I feel like not everything from AMC has to be brilliant, but that up until now I could completely trust them to give me something original and thought provoking, something with a lot more depth than I'd expect from the major networks, and without the manipulation. With The Killing, I got none of that, then felt even more insulted when I didn't get a resolution, and then got downright angry at the unbelievable bullshit from the showrunner saying that its my fault for expecting a resolution as one was never promised. Fuck that.

[samifan24]

FWIW the next AMC original series is "Hell on Wheels" about the building of the Transcontinental Railroad and begins airing this fall.

[jeff061]

then felt even more insulted when I didn't get a resolution, and then got downright angry at the unbelievable bullshit from the showrunner saying that its my fault for expecting a resolution as one was never promised.

I didn't even care much about the lack of resolution this season as much as how they just threw a full season's worth of material in the trash. The absolute only tangible thing to come out of the season intact was Linden's past and personal life. With everything else they basically said "Ha fooled you, we were lying!".

It's like they spent all this time to build up characters simply so the twist would be even more pronounced, they didn't consider that the twist would leave behind ruins no one cares about anymore.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jeff061

It's like they spent all this time to build up characters simply so the twist would be even more pronounced, they didn't consider that the twist would leave behind ruins no one cares about anymore.

Seems more likely to me that they're simply shitty writers that aren't very good at little things like continuity.

I mean, based on all the descriptions of the clusterf*** end, I don't think this was arrogance or even carelessness, it was just incompetence.

[jeff061]

Well I think you stated the cause to my effect .

I also expect, as you have noted, there were tons of people who tuned in only to see who did it, people who have not watched much of the season and did not have the investment in the characters I did. Clearly they got screwed over as well.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I mean, based on all the descriptions of the clusterf*** end, I don't think this was arrogance or even carelessness, it was just incompetence.

This sounds accurate.

You can have twists and red herrings and do them in a thoughtful way that makes them work well. This show had no ability to execute that and it came across as insulting the intelligence of the viewer to expect us to view their BS cliffhangers as high drama.

[QuikSand]

Just finally caught up and watched the finale. Less pissed off than most, it seems.

Have one thought that seems to be a minority view:

Spoiler

Seems to make sense to me that Holder's action was intended not primarily to send Richmond to jail...but to derail his campaign. To expect that the fabricated photos would hold up long term takes a pretty big leap of faith, to me... but hustling along an arrest seemed like a reasonable goal. Given the undertones of how political bigshots play life above the rim, that seems like a fit to me overall.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Just finally caught up and watched the finale. Less pissed off than most, it seems.

Have one thought that seems to be a minority view:

Spoiler

Seems to make sense to me that Holder's action was intended not primarily to send Richmond to jail...but to derail his campaign. To expect that the fabricated photos would hold up long term takes a pretty big leap of faith, to me... but hustling along an arrest seemed like a reasonable goal. Given the undertones of how political bigshots play life above the rim, that seems like a fit to me overall.

Spoiler

I think many would agree with that. Holder would be derailing his own career though. Possibly even setting himself up for jailtime. They spent a lot of time on him making you believe he cares about moving forward in his life.

I'm sure this all ties somehow back to gwens father and some shady friend of his(that's 2 reveals right there for next season) She's in on the conspiracy to, blowing up his alibi and all. Maybe pissed because of all his "girlfriends" and manipulated by her father. None of which interests me.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Spoiler

Seems to make sense to me that Holder's action was intended not primarily to send Richmond to jail...but to derail his campaign. To expect that the fabricated photos would hold up long term takes a pretty big leap of faith, to me... but hustling along an arrest seemed like a reasonable goal. Given the undertones of how political bigshots play life above the rim, that seems like a fit to me overall.

Spoiler

I agree with you there but on the face of it I have a pretty big problem with the idea. No way they can say he was aiming for this from the start, he worked too hard (including an illegal wiretap) to try to pin the teacher for the murder, despite open avenues to steer things towards the politicians if that was the end goal all along. What can they reasonably do with Holder's actions that aren't full of plot holes? The only thing my friends and I have been able to think of is that he was very, very recently coerced into doing so because of an old drug connection or some other seedy underbelly thing he may have going on that has not even been introduced yet.

To me, even if they can explain it away like that in a semi-reasonable fashion, I still think its awful. Holder is, in my opinion at least, a more well developed character than anyone on the show, the only one many people feel invested in at all. Now we learn that was all a lie. A show is certainly allowed to build someone up only to tear them down in dramatic fashion, but there's a huge problem where everything in this show is a lie(I'm basically copying reviewers when I say that, not an original idea). They aren't even well crafted lies, they're the poorly written red herrings and twists that are done in such an amateur fashion that I find them insulting. Finding out that everything with Holder is a lie too and again revealed in a hokey "hey there's 30 seconds left in the show ITS TWIST TIME" fashion just stings.

I will say I've softened very slightly on the whole "no resolution" idea. The showrunners never promised a resolution. But I do feel that AMC's marketing of the show did. As a result I'm slightly less inclined to throw more hate on the producer and such... still, the no resolution thing to me is only ok if they've given us a well written, thoughtful story and not an endless string of awful twists, because that just makes the ending come across as another poorly thought out twist. Ah well!

[QuikSand]

Well, my thinking would follow this line:

Spoiler

Holder is/was a good guy, who got approached by the current Mayor or more likely his shifty aide, and promised protection under the new Administration in exchange for the hastening of the case against Richmond. (Also a chance that it was someone else switching to the Mayor's side in this mix) But if the Mayor wins re-election, he or his cronies would be in a position to shield Holder as a quid.

[tyketime]

I find it very interesting that the show's producer, and now yesterday I read the lead actress make the same point that this cliffhanger was a great thing that will make people want to watch Season 2.

They have obviously greatly miscalculated the negative reaction. If you piss enough viewers off, there won't be anybody left to watch Season 2.

[QuikSand]

I confess that I also come from a somewhat different perspective... I don't think I have ever seen an ad for the show, other than maybe segments of the "on the next episode" preview things. So, to the extent some/many others feel like there was an outright broken promise there, maybe I just wasn''t listening to the sweet nothings that got everyone else all weak in the knees.

[Glengoyne]

I'll agree that I don't feel like I was promised resolution to the murder. I do share the feeling that viewers were somewhat betrayed by the poor development of the show. The willingness of Holder and even Linden o falsify a warrant earlier in the season. The build up and portrayal of the discrimination of the Somali community, only to portray them in the end as a bunch of misogynistic female mutilating barbarians. Then Holder submitting evidence that he knew was falsified, and that it would be damned hard for him to legitimize his possession of. It just seems like they sold this as good, even smart, TV. The truth is that it fell far short of that standard. I agree with an earlier assessment that it did stray well into the neighborhood of incompetence.

[Maple Leafs]

Never watched this show, had barely even heard of it, but the reaction to the finale has been entirely entertaining.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Never watched this show, had barely even heard of it, but the reaction to the finale has been entirely entertaining.

I watched the first episode and couldn't finish the second, figured it just wasn't the show for me. But I'm also entertained by the reaction to the finale. I think at the very least, 90% of the reactions I've seen have been negative. And not just "well, that fell flat." But more like "what the hell, how could this do this." And the way it's described, I'd probably be as pissed off with it too.

I remember when Heroes got to be too much for me to watch, but that was built up over time. This sounds like how I felt about Heroes but all in a 2-minute time frame at the end of the finale.

[Logan]

I haven't seen a second of the show but I've been reading "coverage" of the finale all over the internet. I really can't get enough.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

It just seems like they sold this as good, even smart, TV. The truth is that it fell far short of that standard. I agree with an earlier assessment that it did stray well into the neighborhood of incompetence.

That's why I stopped watching several weeks ago. It seemed a bit obvious that they were going to keep going from suspect to suspect, making it look almost impossible the suspect to not be the killer, only to pull the rug out with a twist and move on to the next one. For the last episode, for them to end the season the same way instead of wrapping it up, just screams to me that they are trying to stretch this out as long as possible and have no plan on how they are going to end the plot line. Not only that, but the writers in stretching out the plot are destroying all character development and making everyone look like fools.

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on them having a plan or not early on, but now it's clear they don't. Which might be fine if they had good writers winging it as they go, but they don't so it's just a mess.

[OldGiants]

I tried explaining my frustrations with this show to my daughter and son-in-law (who did not watch this) and that made me think that the plot does not have as many holes as I once thought. For example, Holder's motive in pinning the murder on the Teacher and Richmond is for the same thing: making Richmond lose the election. Remember that for Richmond the teacher was a part of his Rucker League scheme and having the teacher as murderer badly crippled Richmond in the poles. So Holder has not changed his motive, we simply don't know exactly why and for whom he's doing this.

That also means the Paul Allen-type donor for Richmond is not the killer because his tie to the campaign is obvious.

Making Holder likeable and then getting more evil is good character development, hard to pull off, but a good idea.

American TV simply cannot understand that a six episode series is a good thing if you only have six episodes of material. More is not better. The Brits get this--Fawlty Towers being a classic example.

Anyway, my wife will want to see who done it, so we'll watch season 2.