Better Call Saul

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The Mike storyline is interesting, but if this show was just about that, it wouldn't really be better or worse than any number of those types of shows that have been produced.

In my case at least, you probably have to consider the source.

In the last decade or so I've intentionally watched more than 1-2 episodes of:
BB, SOA, TWD, Burn Notice, Psych ... and about 50-100 episodes each of various procedurals as mostly background noise in the middle of the night. Oh, and that one with the chick from the old NBC show Profiler that USA had for a couple of years (what's her name, where she was a Marshall handling Witness Protection people)

That's pretty much it. Nothing else holds my attention without annoying me long enough to get that far.

So for something like this hypothetical Mike show to fall into "those types of shows" isn't a problem for me, hell it's probably a benefit.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In my case at least, you probably have to consider the source.

In the last decade or so I've intentionally watched more than 1-2 episodes of:
BB, SOA, TWD, Burn Notice, Psych ... and about 50-100 episodes each of various procedurals as mostly background noise in the middle of the night. Oh, and that one with the chick from the old NBC show Profiler that USA had for a couple of years (what's her name, where she was a Marshall handling Witness Protection people)

That's pretty much it. Nothing else holds my attention without annoying me long enough to get that far.

So for something like this hypothetical Mike show to fall into "those types of shows" isn't a problem for me, hell it's probably a benefit.

Oh, I get it. I like shows like that, too. It's a common story theme, but it is one that works, that people enjoy. Just because it's not original, doesn't mean it isn't well done or shouldn't be attempted.

I'm really more saying that I like both story lines, on their own merits.

[stevew]

Could have used a few more episodes this season.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh, and that one with the chick from the old NBC show Profiler that USA had for a couple of years (what's her name, where she was a Marshall handling Witness Protection people)

It made such an impression on you that you're confusing Ally Walker(who was on SOA) with Mary McCormack.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

It made such an impression on you that you're confusing Ally Walker(who was on SOA) with Mary McCormack.

Oh yeah, sure enough, I did didn't I?

Ah well, I did the same thing when it was on IIRC.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by stevew

Could have used a few more episodes this season.

Yeah, I would have loved 12 or 16. But in the 10 they had, I thought they did a great job of filling in backstories, and next season looks like it will be the true launch of Saul.

[Solecismic]

Last night was a reminder that we're back in the BB universe. We now know where Saul's ring came from (his reminder of who he is and where he came from), and why Saul came to realize that Mike is a loyal follower, not a leader (and thus the perfect employee). Closure on the Kevin Costner story.

Why does Jimmy leave before taking that meeting? Why does he "break bad" when he could have used that opportunity to take Chuck on directly. He essentially had recognition from both Howard and Kim that Chuck was a horrible person and his transformation away from what he was in Cicero was accepted.

Does he think Marco was happier having one last week of excitement ripping people off? That's a lot of justification when your best friend dies. Smoke on the water, fire in the sky? That implies that Jimmy's understanding of his last week with Marco is that he has to become Saul because ripping people off is his core. Chuck is an asshole, but he's right.

It is being emphasized that this is a similar story to Walter White's. That there can't be a Saul without knowing (as we did in the last season of BB) that breaking bad doesn't pay - at least if you agree that spending your days in hiding at a Cinnabon in the middle of nowhere is an indication of some sort of failure.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Why does Jimmy leave before taking that meeting? Why does he "break bad" when he could have used that opportunity to take Chuck on directly. He essentially had recognition from both Howard and Kim that Chuck was a horrible person and his transformation away from what he was in Cicero was accepted.

I think he left because no matter how successful he could have been as a corporate lawyer, his brother, the person he most looked up to and sought acceptance from, would never acknowledge his accomplishments. It didn't matter if Kim and Howard were impressed, if Chuck wasn't impressed, it wouldn't be worth it to him. So he will become Saul, the exact type of lawyer that would make Chuck cringe.

[stevew]

I'm kind of hoping they'll can all of the HHM people moving forward. I thought we were headed towards Saul meeting the guys from that other firm and one of them was going to be the Silver Dollar guy from the bar.

[nol]

I thought the show did a great job of balancing the desire from BB fans to see a bunch of Saul and Mike doing their thing while also doing enough to sketch out their pre-Albequerque lives, but this last episode really laid it on too thick.

For example, that opening scene in one of the earlier episodes where Chuck had to come bail Jimmy out was a nice little vignette that had you thinking "boy, that Jimmy sure was a screw-up and a burden to his brother, but he's not some evil, perverted guy so I'm sure there was some goofy reason he got himself booked on all these charges" but not "How exactly did Jimmy get himself into that situation? There needs to be a 5 minute monologue explaining this at some point in the future."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by nol

I thought the show did a great job of balancing the desire from BB fans to see a bunch of Saul and Mike doing their thing while also doing enough to sketch out their pre-Albequerque lives, but this last episode really laid it on too thick.

For example, that opening scene in one of the earlier episodes where Chuck had to come bail Jimmy out was a nice little vignette that had you thinking "boy, that Jimmy sure was a screw-up and a burden to his brother, but he's not some evil, perverted guy so I'm sure there was some goofy reason he got himself booked on all these charges" but not "How exactly did Jimmy get himself into that situation? There needs to be a 5 minute monologue explaining this at some point in the future."

I think this might be a good example of what a relatively narrow ledge shows like this have to walk.

That Bingo meltdown is one of my favorite moments of the show so far, the eventual absurdity of the situation being one of the best tiny bits I think they've written. There's an enormous amount of absurdity in Jimmy's life (and later Saul's), he eventually embraces that as we know but at this point the meltdown including that piece of it made total & complete sense to me.

Maybe my favorite meltdown monologue since Eric Bogosian in Talk Radio .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Does he think Marco was happier having one last week of excitement ripping people off? That's a lot of justification when your best friend dies.

I don't think that there's a lot of justification needed there, really.

Marco was happier -- indeed, feeling like he was alive for the first time in how long? -- during that week.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm kind of hoping they'll can all of the HHM people moving forward. I thought we were headed towards Saul meeting the guys from that other firm and one of them was going to be the Silver Dollar guy from the bar.

That would have been a hell of a plot twist.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

That would have been a hell of a plot twist.

yeah that would have been fun to watch play out.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by nol

I thought the show did a great job of balancing the desire from BB fans to see a bunch of Saul and Mike doing their thing while also doing enough to sketch out their pre-Albequerque lives, but this last episode really laid it on too thick.

For example, that opening scene in one of the earlier episodes where Chuck had to come bail Jimmy out was a nice little vignette that had you thinking "boy, that Jimmy sure was a screw-up and a burden to his brother, but he's not some evil, perverted guy so I'm sure there was some goofy reason he got himself booked on all these charges" but not "How exactly did Jimmy get himself into that situation? There needs to be a 5 minute monologue explaining this at some point in the future."

Breaking Bad had many similar elongated "lay it on thick" scenes. I always enjoyed them, and still do, but I can definitely see them coming across as being a bit much.

And yes, I think it's obvious Jimmy wasn't enjoying busting his ass in elder law, but it was making him a living and he was fulfilling his promise to his brother. The combination of his brother dismissing it all and him having a great week as "Slipping Jimmy" sent him back to his old ways, using his new lawyer skills as a tool.

I liked the episode a lot. You can now view this entire series at a high level and see how he became who he was in Breaking Bad. I thought they put a good amount of depth into it. You can connect with him and it's believable.

As a side note I thought the guy who played Marco did a fantastic job. He didn't look like much and had a bit part, but I really enjoyed his scenes.

[Chief Rum]

So I finally got a chance to watch the finale, and it's funny how perspective changes depending on whether you watched BB.

I only watched the first episode. I only know Saul by reputation from my BB fans, and I didn't know about Mike at all until this show started.

So for me, I am not watching a character developing toward some "pre-existing" ideal set up in BB, but seeing Jimmy himself as he is dealing with the twists and turns in his life.

So for me, last night's episode was interesting but relatively quiet and uneventful. I can see what happened, and I know enough about Saul to know this is a step towards Jimmy becoming Saul, but I don't have any basis to add any weight to the episode for that, at least until I finally binge watch BB at some point in time in the future.

I enjoyed it, but I liked last week's episode more, which felt more like a season finale to me.

[jeff061]

Agree, it did not feel like a season finale. I didn't even know it was the season finale until the day after I watched it. I'm disappointed it's over for now.

Oh well. When does Fargo start back up?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So for me, last night's episode was interesting but relatively quiet and uneventful. I can see what happened, and I know enough about Saul to know this is a step towards Jimmy becoming Saul, but I don't have any basis to add any weight to the episode for that, at least until I finally binge watch BB at some point in time in the future.

I enjoyed it, but I liked last week's episode more, which felt more like a season finale to me.

Even as a huge breaking bad fan, I tend to agree with this. The finale was fine, I liked it quite a bit, but I definitely got a sense that it is more setup for where the show is going than anything else. I'm fine with that. Very enjoyable season on the whole, I'm stunned at how well this is working on its own, given that its pretty much impossible for me to not make comparisons to breaking bad and to note similar styles in how Vince Gilligan likes to tell a story. This could have so easily been a complete disaster.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Breaking Bad had many similar elongated "lay it on thick" scenes. I always enjoyed them, and still do, but I can definitely see them coming across as being a bit much.

I guess the difference was when Breaking Bad did stuff like that (which would be approximately defined as "the show already did a good job through more subtle directorial/writing/acting cues of letting you know what a character was thinking or feeling, but then they throw in a monologue or flashback to make it 100 percent clear"), it tended to result in really memorable stuff like Jesse talking about the box he made, Mike's "half measures" speech, or "I did it for me."

To me, the Breaking Bad parallel to that bingo scene would be like if there was some extended monologue or flashback that, at the expense of the main story, detailed the exact circumstances that led to Walter White leaving Gretchen and Gray Matter behind.

I didn't hate the scene - it was very much in line with Odenkirk's absurd Mr. Show humor - but the finale was the only episode that felt more "pretty good" than "really good."

[Radii]

Originally Posted by nol

I didn't hate the scene - it was very much in line with Odenkirk's absurd Mr. Show humor - but the finale was the only episode that felt more "pretty good" than "really good."

Agree here, and it was impossible for me to watch that specific scene without thinking of all of the slow burn, patient scenes that Breaking Bad did, it seems very much a Vince Gilligan thing. I wonder if I'd view it differently if I wasn't making that direct comparison. And like you say, its not bad at all, but...

And I wonder if it may be less about comparing the shows than the actors. Odenkirk is no Cranston, etc. He's good, and this is a first season and I realize I'm comparing a season 1 Better Call Saul scene to season 3 or 4 Breaking Bad, and that is as unfair as it could possibly get. I wonder how I'd judge a very slow burn scene with Jonathan Banks in this show instead of Odenkirk. But again, that would be impossible and unfair too, because how could I possibly watch such a scene, because "No more half measures, Walter"


I hope Chief Rum binge watches Breaking Bad before the next season of Better Call Saul Trying to avoid specific spoilers, seems fair to do so, would have used spoiler tags if I was going to say anything more than I did.

[Chief Rum]

Haha don't worry about it, Radii. I pretty much decided I was going to take what may come in reading this thread. I knew the risks.

[cartman]

I'd planned to take 6 weeks to watch all of Breaking Bad. Once I got started, I finished in 8 days

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'd planned to take 6 weeks to watch all of Breaking Bad. Once I got started, I finished in 8 days

I think that was the same with me - although that was to catch up to the mid season 5 break. Two work nights in a row I was watching until 2.30am.

[Pyser]

to me the biggest difference is in breaking bad, every single thing i thought was going to happen never did. every prediction about where the episode would go was wrong. the show constantly surprised me. BCS is very predictable so far.

is that because it's a prequel? maybe.

i trust this show will go great places, but so far, it's not there yet.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Pyser

to me the biggest difference is in breaking bad, every single thing i thought was going to happen never did. every prediction about where the episode would go was wrong. the show constantly surprised me. BCS is very predictable so far.

is that because it's a prequel? maybe.

i trust this show will go great places, but so far, it's not there yet.

I think part of that is because you know Jimmy McGill is going to become Saul Goodman. That makes it a little easier to see the things coming that push him down that path. The thing is, I don't think the show is going to stop once he becomes Saul Goodman. I think 80%+ of the show is going to be the shit he gets up to AS Goodman, before he meets Walter White. Season 1 is the origin story.

I suspect Season 2 will be his first steps as "Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree," and we'll see a more fully-realized Saul by season 3.

[albionmoonlight]

Having thought about it, I think that Chuck is the main driver here. When Jimmy thought that Chuck believed in him and could make something of himself, Jimmy busted his ass, got through law school at night, kept his nose clean, and built a law practice from nothing.

When Jimmy realized that Chuck thought Jimmy will always be a screw-up and a con-man, he turned down a good job and became a con-man.

Basically, Jimmy will become whatever he thinks that Chuck thinks he is.

[Landshark44]

I honestly can't believe how much you guys liked the show..

I'd rank "Breaking Bad" as one of my favorite shows ever,
right up there in the top 5, slightly behind "The Wire"...

But I hated almost every minute of "Better Call Saul". I'm not trying to troll or anything... It just surprises me how much everyone liked this show..

I thought it was terrible... (but i did watch the whole season)

[BigPapi]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

I honestly can't believe how much you guys liked the show..

I'd rank "Breaking Bad" as one of my favorite shows ever,
right up there in the top 5, slightly behind "The Wire"...

But I hated almost every minute of "Better Call Saul". I'm not trying to troll or anything... It just surprises me how much everyone liked this show..

I thought it was terrible... (but i did watch the whole season)

Wait...Just to be clear: You hated "almost every minute" of the show- but watched all 10 episodes??? That's hilarious.

[Landshark44]

yeah, I know...

i kept waiting for it to get better.

and since most of you guys liked it, i thought i was missing something.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

I honestly can't believe how much you guys liked the show..

I'd rank "Breaking Bad" as one of my favorite shows ever,
right up there in the top 5, slightly behind "The Wire"...

But I hated almost every minute of "Better Call Saul". I'm not trying to troll or anything... It just surprises me how much everyone liked this show..

I thought it was terrible... (but i did watch the whole season)

For all the good things I've said about it in some respects, I'm actually not THAT enamored with it.

I'll say this, it's the first show in my entire life I've ever watched in almost alternating weeks (due to the repeat of the previous ep at 9). I probably did that three times in its short run, that's how tenuous its grip on me is.

[cartman]

One week countdown to the new season.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cartman

One week countdown to the new season.

One week? OMG!!!

[Alf]

O'rly ? That's cool.

[britrock88]

In case anyone needs a refresher:

[cartman]

I enjoyed the season opener last night. He is getting ever closer to being Saul Goodman.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by cartman

I enjoyed the season opener last night. He is getting ever closer to being Saul Goodman.

+1

[PackerFanatic]

Loved the Breaking Bad references in the premiere. I also love how they are playing them - not so subtle that they aren't noticeable, but subtle enough that they aren't over the top. Excited to see where season goes.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by cartman

I enjoyed the season opener last night. He is getting ever closer to being Saul Goodman.

I enjoyed it as well, but it just seems like we are getting to Saul Goodman so slowly. But I enjoyed last season and the opener, so I'm on board.

[cartman]

We already KNOW Saul Goodman. So I don't really have a problem with them fleshing out so much of the backstory of the transformation of Jimmy McGill into Saul Goodman.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by cartman

We already KNOW Saul Goodman. So I don't really have a problem with them fleshing out so much of the backstory of the transformation of Jimmy McGill into Saul Goodman.

They said the same thing on Talking Saul (which is a great move by AMC, btw) - we know pretty much how the story ends, and the more they delved into the character of Jimmy McGill, the more they realized that there was a lot to tell.

[Radii]

mmmm, pie.


Great episode for both Mike and Saul.

[hollmt]

1. Kim Wexler sneaks up on you.
2. I drink my morning coffee at work out of the same type of cup Saul was drinking his coffee out of at the police station. Stupid tidbit.

[Solecismic]

There are so many great things to say about how Vince Gilligan tells a story, but it seems more than ever that Jimmy leads this charmed life and is far too intelligent to both want to have his pie and eat it, too.

We need something in the next few episodes to see that this new law firm is trying to screw the Sandpiper residents. Otherwise, if these firms really are standing up for the elderly (and just the standard massive contingency), you have to wonder why Saul Goodman broke bad. Walt did it for his family.

I always forget good Easter eggs. Anything in Chuck's groceries? The pretzels?

[albionmoonlight]

Kim made some offhand comment about jumping off a building.

I think she dies at some point, and that's what really turns Jimmy into Saul.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We need something in the next few episodes to see that this new law firm is trying to screw the Sandpiper residents. Otherwise, if these firms really are standing up for the elderly (and just the standard massive contingency), you have to wonder why Saul Goodman broke bad. Walt did it for his family.

The way that Cliff was reacting to Jimmy when he was telling him about what he found with the contracts might lead to that, IMO. He didn't seem all that interested, like it was just going to be ignored anyway. Who knows...

[Radii]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Kim made some offhand comment about jumping off a building.

I remember the line but didn't immediately think of it this way. I've seen others pick up on it though and it would make sense.

[cartman]

My gut feeling is that something happens to both his brother and Kim, and that is what pushes him completely over the edge. Even though he had the falling out with his brother, he still deep down doesn't want to disappoint him. He showed that by getting refocused when his brother came into the meeting. Kim is what got him back into the respectable legal fold, and if she is gone, then he is weapons free to become Saul.

[PilotMan]

Finally got to watch this week's episode and loved it. Really strong and the Mike stuff was just brilliant. This show has now passed Walking Dead as the show I get most excited about each week.

[cartman]

That might have been Michael McKean's best scene of the show by far when he was talking with Kim.

And also

Spoiler

Tio Salamanca! From back before he had his stroke! I was wondering how they were gonna keep Tuco from killing Mike once he got out of jail.

[cartman]

It's been picked up for a 3rd season.

‘Better Call Saul’ Renewed For Third Season At AMC | Deadline