NFL Week 13

[Julio Riddols]

Bortles good. Jags defense bad. Bright future.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by sabotai

During the game: "I like the aggression. Gotta go for the win when you have your foot on their throat!"

After the game: "What the FUCK were you thinking!?!?"


I know I'm in the minority of Giants fans, but I think they should give Coughlin-McAdoo-Spags another year to figure it out. The last thing I want is for the Giants to end up in the cycle of a new OC and DC every 1-3 years, and a new Head Coach every 2-4 years that so many teams that are always in the lower half of the league end up in. McAdoo is in year 2 and Spags is in year 1 (he's back for fans and management, but he's new to all of defensive players).

It takes time for teams to learn systems. I haven't checked into the stats, but by the eye test, the passing game is better this year with the running game being the same ("meh" OL to begin with, and it's been ravaged with injuries). Plus, they'll get Victor Cruz back next year (who knows what the injuries have done to him). The defense is full of holes, but they are still learning the system. There are positives. They are average against the run, and near the top of the league in takeaways. If they get better rushing the ball, and better with giving up passing yards, they can be a really good team. Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think the Giants are close to being a 10-6 team. One more year and some luck when it comes to injuries and they could get there.

I think Manning needs to follow his brother into retirement soon personally (sorry Lathum-wish you were still here)-team needs a shake up from the top. Other than Beckham (and maybe Cruz and JPP), the team has no superstars, just a bunch of average players. That whole division was pitiful this year, and the Giants could have dominated, but didn't. Coughlin made some poor decisions especially early in the season, and when he tried to be aggressive in this game it backfired badly on him. How many games did the team lose in the 4th quarter this year?

[Thomkal]

it was nice to see my beloved Cardinals dominated a mediocre Rams team unlike the 49ers last week. May need it with four dangerous games left-Vikings on Thursday, (well maybe not after ths week). a suddenly hot Eagles team, then GB and Seattle. Thankfully 3 of the four are at home. They just need to keep Carson healthy for the rest of the season. And the defense too.

nice to see rookie D.Johnson respond so well to the injuries to C. Johnson and Ellington. Needs to watch those fumbles though.

[QuikSand]

I know nobody cares, but...

I play in a FanDuel private game, and the guy who finished 2nd had to sweat whether Roethlisberger would come out for the victory formation to take a knee. Had BB lost 2 yards rushing, he would have slipped from 2nd to 3rd, a delta of more than $100 in real money in this little league.

The misfire on the BB/Bryant pass on their last PIT possession, coupled with the FG afterward, cinched my narrow (~6 pts) victory for the week.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

May need it with four dangerous games left-Vikings on Thursday, (well maybe not after ths week). a suddenly hot Eagles team, then GB and Seattle.

It'd be nice if Arizona would just go ahead and lose one or two of those to make it easier/quicker for Carolina to lock up home field, please and thank you.

[miami_fan]

I was not playing close attention to the game so I missed the explanation. Why was Ingram flagged for his celebration after he scored in the 4th qtr? Can you no longer allowed to throw the ball at the wall behind end zone?

[Dutch]

I'm going to guess that he almost beheaded that chick with the ball that drew the flag.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I think Manning needs to follow his brother into retirement soon personally (sorry Lathum-wish you were still here)-team needs a shake up from the top. Other than Beckham (and maybe Cruz and JPP), the team has no superstars, just a bunch of average players. That whole division was pitiful this year, and the Giants could have dominated, but didn't. Coughlin made some poor decisions especially early in the season, and when he tried to be aggressive in this game it backfired badly on him. How many games did the team lose in the 4th quarter this year?

They've lost four games where they had the lead in the last minute.

[stevew]

Is this it for Peyton? I can't see going back to him in Denver now. They really should get a look at Ostweiler the rest of the way since Peyton looked so awful.

So Peyton is done, or Peyton goes to the Jets for 2016?

[spleen1015]

I have a feeling Peyton is done with the Broncos, but he's going to play some where next year and be worse than Favre was in his last year.

[Dutch]

I can't see Peyton coming back, this is the right time for a classy exit.

[stevew]

Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Radii

It'd be nice if Arizona would just go ahead and lose one or two of those to make it easier/quicker for Carolina to lock up home field, please and thank you.

Arizona has a date with Carolina in the playoffs, hopefully with Carson as the starting QB this time around. So they can show them what should have happened last season

[Thomkal]

Cardinals-Eagles game has been flexed to Sunday night that week-twice this season that will play back to back on prime time, And with games with Green Bay and Seattle there could be more moved. Cardinals fever catch it!

[Logan]

I didn't have very high expectations to start and yet this is still one of the worst athletic competitions I've seen in a long time.

[bhlloy]

3-3 at halftime is a hell of a soccer game

[Thomkal]

9-6 now real barnburner.

[Dutch]

A tie is a solid possibility...

[Senator]

I go to the penalty box. Feel shame.

go cowboys

[Solecismic]

In this particular instance, they should change the two-minute warning to an advisory.

[bhlloy]

Refs want this one to be over as bad as anyone

[cuervo72]

They GIFTED YOU THE GAME, Cowboys.

[bhlloy]

All you had to do was run the ball up the middle three times and kick the field goal. Taking a knee would have worked just as well. This is the game that won't die.

[Dutch]

Big redemption play for Jackson.

[cuervo72]

Ok, nevermind. Thank you, Cowboys.

[cuervo72]

(Why I'm saying thanks I'm not sure, this doesn't change that the Eagles still suck and aren't going anywhere even if they DO somehow win this crapfest of a division.)

[Dutch]

Well, thank God that's over with....last 3 minutes were pretty cool though.

[jbergey22]

The Golden Age of NFL football when the Cowboys/Redskins meant something.

1984 Redskins @ Cowboys - YouTube

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by stevew

Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.

No way Osweiler gets 14-18 mill from Elway even if the team wins it all. Maybe 12 certainly much less than Manning is getting. Von Miller is a tough one but with the rookie Shane Ray looking great as well as second year guy Barrett I would be fine letting Miller walk to FA . He is a great player but not worth 20 million. We got lots of needs elsewhere to sign both DE ends and the free safety as well as at least one of the inside linebackers Trevathon or Marshall, both Hillman and CJ Andersen are free agents and would expect only one of them is resigned. Would be great to extend Emmanuel Sanders too .

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Galaril

No way Osweiler gets 14-18 mill from Elway even if the team wins it all. Maybe 12 certainly much less than Manning is getting. Von Miller is a tough one but with the rookie Shane Ray looking great as well as second year guy Barrett I would be fine letting Miller walk to FA . He is a great player but not worth 20 million. We got lots of needs elsewhere to sign both DE ends and the free safety as well as at least one of the inside linebackers Trevathon or Marshall, both Hillman and CJ Andersen are free agents and would expect only one of them is resigned. Would be great to extend Emmanuel Sanders too .

Indeed! While maybe someone might vastly overpay for Osweiler it wont be Elway. He understands the game far too well to just simply grade the QB position on 'team' wins. (Remembering Tim Tebow)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

All you had to do was run the ball up the middle three times and kick the field goal. Taking a knee would have worked just as well. This is the game that won't die.

This was a tricky one, but since the Redskins had 2 timeouts (and we just saw 9 missed XP's Sunday) I don't think the Cowboys did anything wrong that series other than McFadden running OOB. Running it up the middle 3x right after the fumbled punt would've meant a 30ish yard FG and giving the Redskins the ball back with 50ish seconds needing only a FG of their own. Similarly once McFadden went OOB and it was 2nd & 1, 2 stops would've meant a 25yd FG and the Skins getting it back down 3 with about a minute left. Theoretically they should've told McFadden to gain 1 yard on 2nd down, then fall down inside the 5, but that's a lot to process and I wouldn't want to tell an RB to give himself up with that many bodies around him. But kicking off with 50 seconds and only a 3-pt lead isn't nearly secure enough for me to tell him to take a dive, as we saw with the 2 ensuing possessions.

Just don't allow 40+ yard KO returns, commit facemask penalties on those, or leave their deep threat in 1v1 coverage near the end zone. Or in this case, let them score quickly enough you are the team getting the ball with 45 seconds left needing just a FG

Originally Posted by stevew

Broncos will have an interesting dilemma. Both Von Miller and Ostweiler are unrestricted FA following the season and they can only tag one. They can walk away and dump Peyton and save 19million, but if they win the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl each one ads 2million to his salary for this year.

As far as Miller goes, I'd imagine his new salary will be absurd. Probably at least 6/100 or maybe even the full Suh deal.

Ostweiler seems like he should get a Dalton or Kaepernick type deal, roughly 14-18m per year. If the Broncos aren't going to pay it, I'd imagine someone will take a flyer on him.

Glad the Denver fans jumped in first, but let's just let Osweiler finish out the season before even trying to predict contract numbers. Even right now, he's below average in every category PFR measures (Comp %, TD %, INT %, Sack %, overall QB rating, all 4 Yards per Attempt metrics) despite the 3-0 record.

Fwiw, I do think the Dalton/Kap contracts are a good guide - I expect at least one QB desperate team would offer him mid-teens AAV's with little to no guaranteed money after year 1 right now. How he plays the next few weeks could determine if a couple of those teams have a bidding war over how much they want to guarantee him and he's priced well out of Denver's range, or if he falls down into the Brian Hoyer/Matt Cassell type-area of 2/$12m. Sounds like that, or the Broncos either re-signing Miller/deciding he wants too much and would be too much of a headache on the franchise tag so they're willing to put it on Osweiler for a year is the only way Osweiler's staying in Denver.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Well, thank God that's over with....last 3 minutes were pretty cool though.

For some reason I set the game to record using the FIOS app, which doesn't give you the option to extend the recording time. The recording cut off with about 4 minutes left in the game. I sat through all the crap and missed the exciting conclusion...

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

This was a tricky one, but since the Redskins had 2 timeouts (and we just saw 9 missed XP's Sunday) I don't think the Cowboys did anything wrong that series other than McFadden running OOB. Running it up the middle 3x right after the fumbled punt would've meant a 30ish yard FG and giving the Redskins the ball back with 50ish seconds needing only a FG of their own. Similarly once McFadden went OOB and it was 2nd & 1, 2 stops would've meant a 25yd FG and the Skins getting it back down 3 with about a minute left. Theoretically they should've told McFadden to gain 1 yard on 2nd down, then fall down inside the 5, but that's a lot to process and I wouldn't want to tell an RB to give himself up with that many bodies around him. But kicking off with 50 seconds and only a 3-pt lead isn't nearly secure enough for me to tell him to take a dive, as we saw with the 2 ensuing possessions.

Just don't allow 40+ yard KO returns, commit facemask penalties on those, or leave their deep threat in 1v1 coverage near the end zone. Or in this case, let them score quickly enough you are the team getting the ball with 45 seconds left needing just a FG Glad the Denver fans jumped in first, but let's just let Osweiler finish out the season before even trying to predict contract numbers. Even right now, he's below average in every category PFR measures (Comp %, TD %, INT %, Sack %, overall QB rating, all 4 Yards per Attempt metrics) despite the 3-0 record.

Fwiw, I do think the Dalton/Kap contracts are a good guide - I expect at least one QB desperate team would offer him mid-teens AAV's with little to no guaranteed money after year 1 right now. How he plays the next few weeks could determine if a couple of those teams have a bidding war over how much they want to guarantee him and he's priced well out of Denver's range, or if he falls down into the Brian Hoyer/Matt Cassell type-area of 2/$12m. Sounds like that, or the Broncos either re-signing Miller/deciding he wants too much and would be too much of a headache on the franchise tag so they're willing to put it on Osweiler for a year is the only way Osweiler's staying in Denver.

Bishop I totally agree and to steal a play from your teams book we are on to next weeks game not the offseason. That being said I don't think Osweiler is anything we can't replace. Plus Kubiak may very well want to pick "his" guy in the draft that is a perfect fit for his offense. I am just more focused on the Broncos resigning as many of the defensive players along with Sanders and Andersen. The Oline is a hot mess with only two future starters current in the team. They will get 20 million coming off the books plus Von Millers but agree they may tag him.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(Why I'm saying thanks I'm not sure, this doesn't change that the Eagles still suck and aren't going anywhere even if they DO somehow win this crapfest of a division.)

If they can beat the Giants and Redskins, the tie-breakers are secured over the entire division. Although with the remaining schedules, i's not impossible to have a four-way tie at 7-9, with the Cowboys taking the division on divisional record...
Cowboys (L@gb, Wvnyj, W@buf, Wvwas)
Eagles (Wvbuf, LvArz, Wvwas, L@nyg)
Giants (W@mia, Lvcar, L@min, Wvphi)
Redskins (W@chi, Wvbuf, L@phi, L@dal)

Or 6-10 all:
Cowboys (L@gb, Wvnyj, L@buf, Wvwas)
Eagles (Lvbuf, LvArz, Wvwas, L@nyg)
Giants (L@mia, Lvcar, L@min, Wvphi)
Redskins (L@chi, Wvbuf, L@phi, L@dal)

[Thomkal]

I think its appropriate that the NFC East ends in a four way tie of awfulness.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Bishop I totally agree and to steal a play from your teams book we are on to next weeks game not the offseason. That being said I don't think Osweiler is anything we can't replace. Plus Kubiak may very well want to pick "his" guy in the draft that is a perfect fit for his offense. I am just more focused on the Broncos resigning as many of the defensive players along with Sanders and Andersen. The Oline is a hot mess with only two future starters current in the team. They will get 20 million coming off the books plus Von Millers but agree they may tag him.

Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.

Only one year but Flacco is a QB that is the type though he is not as mobile as would be best. Kubiak made a strong run at acquiring Tyrod Taylor before the Bills grabbed him. That I think tells us the type of mobile QB Kubiak would like. Who knows like you said maybe he thinks Osweiler is a fit for the run first stretch run bootleg and throw long on play action pass now and then.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Not sure I can see Denver looking to the draft for their QB. Assuming they re-sign a couple of those defensive players they're set up as a Super Bowl contender. I suppose they could go caretaker QB and draft a lower round QB (drafting a lower round QB makes a lot of sense if Osweiler is not re-signed), but putting all your eggs in the draft basket when you're picking 25+ isn't a great plan. A lot will depend on how it plays out though - Osweiler has more to play for the next month than anyone in the NFL.

Btw, what is this "Kubiak-type QB" you and Troy keep mentioning? I realize he wants someone more mobile than 2015 Peyton Manning, but the QB's I think of him coaching are (old) Elway, David Carr and Matt Schaub. There doesn't seem to be a mold there.

Honestly, I wouldn't call Carr or Schaub QB's that Kubiak really likes either. i think the "Kubiak" QB is someone like Jake Plummer. Mobile, can use play action to set up deep passes, etc. The reality is he has succeeded with a lot of different types of QB's. Schaub threw for 4,700 yards with him. Flacco had a good year last year and didn't really fit that mold.

As for the Denver salary cap, as you have said it is far too early to hand the reigns to Brock. (he was actually pretty poor against San Diego) The way the Denver cap is set up, however, gives them the freedom to do a lot of things.


My guess is that Manning (duh), Ware (plenty of depth at that position), Clady (played without him in 2 of the last 4 years) and Talib (Roby is ready to replace him) will all be cut. (or restructured if they choose to) That frees up close to 45 million on the cap with around 8.2 million in dead money the following year.

I think that's more than enough to sign Brock and Miller. The real question is what they do with a lot of the unsung heros of both the offense and defense. Malik Jackson, Derek Wolfe, and Danny Trevathan will be UFA's. Marshall will be an RFA. That's both starting ILB, and our best pass rushing DE who can collapse the pocket in the 3/4. You add in both running backs (Anderson and Hillman) and Evan Mathis and it is an interesting situation.

I'll worry about all of that in the offseason. I'm excited to watch this defense for the rest of the year. I don't see this team winning the Super Bowl, but the defense at least gives us a shot. I'll enjoy this season and then look toward next year. (I'm thinking of how much fun it would be to make those decisions in the new FOF now)