Yet another school shooting.

[Thomkal]

Walmart in Springfield, MO was nearly the latest tragedy 20 yr old white man with rifle, handgun, body armor and 100's rounds of ammunition was stop by a concealed carry off-duty firefighter who held him at gunpoint until police arrived.



This is a developing story: Springfield Police arrest armed person at Walmart on Republic | KOLR

[JPhillips]

It really puts police in an impossible position, because the law in a lot of states allows this to happen.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Walmart in Springfield, MO was nearly the latest tragedy 20 yr old white man with rifle, handgun, body armor and 100's rounds of ammunition was stop by a concealed carry off-duty firefighter who held him at gunpoint until police arrived.

This is a developing story: Springfield Police arrest armed person at Walmart on Republic | KOLR

Weird story. Not sure if he was planning to shoot up the place or if it was some kind of social experiment. He had a camera with him and body armor which is not a good sign.

Apparently he was really angry with Walmart for not selling certain ammo to people under 21. I'll give you a wild guess what his social media was all about!

[thesloppy]

Video games?

[miami_fan]

Well this is beginning to make more sense.

Friends say Dayton shooter’s slain sibling was a transgender man / LGBTQ Nation

[RainMaker]

Another terrorist attack thwarted. Good on the FBI.

The FBI says the person featured in a @KTNV report in 2016, carrying 120 rounds of ammo and his AR-15 on an armed patrol of a neighborhood is the same person they arrested today: pic.twitter.com/JC29RbRVCJ

— Tom Winter (@Tom_Winter) August 9, 2019

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Well this is beginning to make more sense.

Friends say Dayton shooter’s slain sibling was a transgender man / LGBTQ Nation

I tend to takes stories based on an "anonymous friend" with a grain of salt.


Also how does this story help make the shooting more sense? Was there any evidence that the Dayton shooter hated transgender people?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Walmart in Springfield, MO was nearly the latest tragedy 20 yr old white man with rifle, handgun, body armor and 100's rounds of ammunition was stop by a concealed carry off-duty firefighter who held him at gunpoint until police arrived.



This is a developing story: Springfield Police arrest armed person at Walmart on Republic | KOLR

The arrested person is saying he was just testing the if the 2nd amendment still applies.

[stevew]

He’s lucky that off duty firefighter showed him some restraint. No jury in the country would have convicted him if he lit that guy up

[Edward64]

What an ass. Good for the firefighter.

Man who brought 'tactical rifle' to Walmart says he was testing 2nd amendment

Andreychenko, 20, allegedly told cops that he “did not believe people would react the way they did” when he strolled into the Springfield Walmart on Thursday with his weapons.

“He said, ‘This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out,'” recalled the interviewing officer. “He said he brought a rifle and body armor due to three recent shootings and a stabbing and he wanted to protect himself. He stated he walked into the store, heard the fire alarm go off and walked out of the store. An individual then pointed a gun at him and told him to put his hands up.”

Cops said Andreychenko was detained by an armed off-duty firefighter and later placed under arrest.

He allegedly mentioned the shootings at the Walmart in El Paso and bar district in Dayton, Ohio that occurred last weekend — and noted how he told his wife, Angelice, that he was going to put his Second Amendment rights to the test in the wake of what happened.
:
:
“Missouri protects the right of people to open carry a firearm, but that does not allow an individual to act in a reckless and criminal manner endangering other citizens,” said Greene County prosecutor Dan Patterson in a statement Friday. “As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously explained, ‘the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre causing a panic.’”

[NobodyHere]

“As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously explained, ‘the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre causing a panic.’”

Yeah the whole "shouting fire in a theater" thing was a metaphor for speaking out against the WW1 draft. If you can't speak out against a government policy without fear of reprisal then what is the point of the first amendment?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by stevew

He’s lucky that off duty firefighter showed him some restraint. No jury in the country would have convicted him if he lit that guy up

Well.. he wasn't black. So there's that.

[Edward64]

Warren's plan

Elizabeth Warren Introduces Sweeping Gun Control Plan : NPR

Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren introduced a sweeping gun control plan Saturday with the goal of reducing gun deaths by 80% through executive action and legislation.

Good goal for sure.

She is also reiterating her desire to eliminate the filibuster to pass gun legislation, citing the fact that a majority of Americans support gun restrictions, and her belief that gun control could pass in the Senate.

Not sure but sounds good to me.

But Warren is going beyond some of the more commonly discussed ideas, such as stricter background checks or a ban on assault weapons.

All for stricter background checks. Not for a ban but okay for more restrictions on assault weapons (e.g. training, waiting period, more rigorous tracking, required gun safes etc.)

Her plan calls for creating a federal licensing system, limiting the number of firearms someone could buy, raising the minimum age to 21 for purchasing a gun,

Good with licensing system (don't we already have this) and raising the min age. Disagree with limiting number of firearms but do add additional gun control rigor

holding gun manufacturers liable (and, in some cases, even holding gun industry CEOs personally liable).

Don't see how this is possible? Negligence maybe?

She also wants to raise taxes for gun manufacturers (from 10% to 30% on guns and from 11% to 50% on ammunition).

Good with this.

Additionally, Warren's plan calls for $100 million annual investment into gun violence research. She points out that the frequency of automobile deaths in the United States declined with widespread safety measures, such as seat belts and air bags. With the same approach, she says, her goal of an 80% reduction in gun-related deaths could be achieved.

Good with this, makes alot of sense to me.

On Friday, Warren also called on Walmart to stop selling guns. It's an idea that has been echoed by fellow Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Bernie Sanders and Cory Booker, as well as Julián Castro.

I am good with limiting the sale of "assault" weapons to limited/specialized dealers but to ask Walmart to stop selling .22, hunting rifles/shotguns etc. seems counter productive to her cause.


Appreciate Warren laying it out there. The misses I see are:

1) Mental health assistance/focus including suicides
2) More funding to reduce criminal violence
3) Harsher penalties on repeat gun felons (or are we okay here already?)

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I tend to takes stories based on an "anonymous friend" with a grain of salt.


Also how does this story help make the shooting more sense? Was there any evidence that the Dayton shooter hated transgender people?

Eh, "anonymous friend" vs "sources with knowledge of the situation" etc we should probably take all of these things with a grain of salt. You are more than welcome to pick and choose what you do and don't want to believe. Since the shooter is dead, we are probably never going to be 100% sure.

As far as relevance, it makes more sense to me that he would have "snapped" based on something like his sister coming out as trans to him than he just hated his sister enough to go to the bar with her, leave her in the bar and come back and shoot the place up with her reportedly being one of the first people shot.

[Edward64]

I can easily believe this kid did not have malicious intent but is just plain stupid. However, I do want this kid to be investigated more to see if there are any other "signs". Definitely a good candidate for the "red flag" law.

Hope its more than just a few days in jail and probation. I'd toss in mental health evaluation also.

Family of armed man at Walmart say he was never going to harm anybody

Court documents show a manager at Walmart heard an employee say that a man was walking into the store with a rifle and believed Andreychenko came into the store to shoot people. Andreychenko told police he did not believe people would react the way they did saying, "This is Missouri, I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out."

"If it had just been a sidearm, people do that all of the time, that is totally lawful," said attorney Dee Wampler, who is representing Andreychenko. "But I think carrying a long gun scared some people and we understand why."

Wampler agreed with the family, that the timing of the social experiment was not good.

"It may have been a bad decision, but criminal intent no." Wampler added.

"He wasn't trying to kill anybody and he wasn't trying to shoot anybody." said Irin Usik, Andreychenko's older sister. She heard about his experiment, and when he wasn't answering his phone, decided to stop by the Walmart and saw the chaos firsthand.

"We do want to apologize for all of the people that were there during this incident. I would be worried myself. What they had to go through with their families and children, we are very sorry that this has happened." added Usik.

But the family says it was all a big misunderstanding.

"I just don't think he understood the impact that the previous events had, and so he didn't consider what was going to happen." Anastasia explained.

"We could have been planning his memorial tomorrow, so we are very grateful that nobody died, nobody got shot, just thankful to God that he is still alive." said Usik.

"He is not the guy everyone is portraying him out to be." Angelica said, through tears.

Wampler expects Andreychenko to stay in jail over the weekend.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I can easily believe this kid did not have malicious intent but is just plain stupid. However, I do want this kid to be investigated more to see if there are any other "signs". Definitely a good candidate for the "red flag" law.

Hope its more than just a few days in jail and probation. I'd toss in mental health evaluation also.

Family of armed man at Walmart say he was never going to harm anybody

I don't know. If the kid is indeed telling the truth and the equipment he had was purchased legally then why should he spend any time in jail? Do we have a second amendment? Do we have open carry laws? Maybe the laws should be changed but afaik they're still in place. I'll definitely say the kid was unwise but I'm not sure he did anything criminal thus no need to throw him in jail. We throw too many people in prison as it is.

I'm also wary of any red flag law that takes away "innocent until proven guilty".

[molson]

I don't think this would be a crime in my state (assuming there's no significant evidence we don't know), but Missouri has an interesting statute he was charged under, making a terrorist threat. And that title is a little misleading. The state doesn't have to prove either that he was making a legitimate threat, or that he intended to kill anyone. For the second-degree version of the charge, they only have to prove that he:

(1) recklessly disregarded the risk of causing the evacuation, quarantine or closure of any portion of a building

AND knowingly either

(1) Communicated an express or implied threat to cause an incident or condition involving danger to life; or

(2) Caused a false belief or fear that an incident has occurred or that a condition exists involving danger to life.

They're pretty strong on the fist element. This was some reckless disregard. The second part is trickier. But a jury can infer knowledge and intent from the circumstances, there doesn't have to be direct evidence of it. I could see the circumstances fleshed out, with testimony from how people there actually felt at the time, and from that a jury could infer that he meant to scare people, and to convince, at least some of the shoppers, that shit was going to get bad in a second. That's a pretty reasonable inference

And this is not a very serious crime, it's Class E felony in Missouri. Which means max sentence of 4 years, which means, most likely, probation or some kind of diversion program where he learns not to be a dumbass after a plea deal. If they could get a felony conviction and have his gun rights taken away, I don't think they'd care much about incarceration. This is a person who shouldn't legally have weapons, so I hope they draw the line on the felony and are willing to go to trial on that.

(Of course this all assumes they don't dig up his hit lists or white supremacist manifestos).

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't know. If the kid is indeed telling the truth and the equipment he had was purchased legally then why should he spend any time in jail? Do we have a second amendment? Do we have open carry laws? Maybe the laws should be changed but afaik they're still in place. I'll definitely say the kid was unwise but I'm not sure he did anything criminal thus no need to throw him in jail. We throw too many people in prison as it is.

I'm also wary of any red flag law that takes away "innocent until proven guilty".

Then, the natural course of action should be that he be shot by another person, legally carrying, who saw him as a threat. Wouldn't that be the ultimate conclusion? Shouldn't it be?


Or, are we now supposed to see people with guns in public places as not being a threat? If that's the case, doesn't that make us MORE susceptible to mass shootings?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't know. If the kid is indeed telling the truth and the equipment he had was purchased legally then why should he spend any time in jail? Do we have a second amendment? Do we have open carry laws? Maybe the laws should be changed but afaik they're still in place. I'll definitely say the kid was unwise but I'm not sure he did anything criminal thus no need to throw him in jail. We throw too many people in prison as it is.

For me this lands in the same moral area as falsely yelling fire or bomb in a crowded venue. Your first amendment rights don't protect you in those situations and the 2nd amendment shouldn't protect you when purposely trying to create panic either.

[cougarfreak]

Agree. Simple check in this case should be how much ammo, if any did he have? If he had an inordinate amount.....he’s lying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[korme]

Just wanted to check in and say I am fine. I live three blocks from the Dayton shooting.

[QuikSand]

glad to hear, shorty

[RainMaker]

El Paso man with no remaining family invites community to shooting victim wife's funeral - KVIA

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by korme

Just wanted to check in and say I am fine. I live three blocks from the Dayton shooting.

Glad you are okay.

[stevew]

Philly cops?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

Philly cops?

They are saying it started with a narcotics stop. 6 cops injured, but none believed life-threatening.

[RainMaker]

Guy is still shooting at cops 3 hours later. There must be some arsenal in that place.

[Jukeman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Guy is still shooting at cops 3 hours later. There must be some arsenal in that place.

Yea..It’s a drug house. Police were serving a search warrant. The guy did 9 years already they going to have to take him dead.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

El Paso man with no remaining family invites community to shooting victim wife's funeral - KVIA

God that is heartbreaking.

[Ben E Lou]

Don't know if this will make national news, but I'm hearing about this via FB pretty much in real time, as at least two good friends of mine from Cobb County days have kids at Wheeler.


Wheeler HS back on schedule after lockdown; student found with weapon | News | mdjonline.com

[Edward64]

Interesting read on why Obama didn't do much on gun control in his first term. Also on what the Dems should do now in anticipation of winning Presidency.

I agree with making gun control a major policy promise and having this fight now. I think most gun owners support additional "reasonable" controls.

The Real Reason Obama Didn’t Pass Gun Control - POLITICO Magazine

And so Barack Obama released an approving statement during the 2008 presidential campaign when the Supreme Court declared that the Second Amendment enshrines an individual right to bear arms, and proceeded to flip several states with significant gun-owning constituencies. In his first term, Obama did not push for gun control measures after the fatal mass shootings at Fort Hood, Texas; an Aurora, Colorado, movie theater; and the Tucson, Arizona supermarket that cut short Rep. Gabby Giffords' congressional career. He continued to keep quiet on gun control in the 2012 presidential campaign as well.

The Sandy Hook massacre, which took place one month after the 2012 election, upended Obama’s second-term legislative agenda. The national trauma resulting from the murders of 20 small children was so profound that Obama reasonably concluded this was not a time for caution and calculation. In January 2013, Obama proposed a long list of measures, including bans on assault weapons ban and armor-piercing bullets and a limit on the size of magazines.

And yet he began his gun control push from a position of political weakness. He had not campaigned on gun control, let alone a specific set of gun control proposals. He couldn’t influence lawmakers with clear evidence of red- and purple-state voters who were dedicated to his proposals. No broad-based gun control movement was in place to apply grassroots pressure (despite the efforts of billionaire Michael Bloomberg to build one with his Everytown for Gun Safety organization).
:
:
The next serious opening for gun control legislation, then, will most likely be when Democrats get control of the White House and the Senate, however narrowly. But to be better positioned than Obama was in 2013, Democrats have to run on gun control now and run on it hard.

[thesloppy]

I feel like there have been similar articles before touting "the REAL reasons Democrats didn't do shit about XXXXX" and they only serve to make me more furious since they always seem to come to the same conclusion: the collective Dem machine determined the result they wanted wasn't politically feasible at that particular moment so they decided to do nothing at all.

Considering the incredibly volatile and liquid nature of American politics (and how the Republicans seemingly ignore the same indicators) it's frustrating to read about the Dems repeatedly giving up on policy & legislation because the political barometer is never reading 'perfect'.

[Edward64]

Too soon to tell and we should wait for full story (last one seems to be the weakness based on the info) but great authorities seem to be proactive.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/18/us/th...led/index.html

In Connecticut, 22-year-old Brandon Wagshol was arrested after authorities said he had expressed interest in committing a mass shooting on Facebook, according to a statement from the FBI and the Norwalk Police Department.

Tristan Scott Wix of Daytona Beach, Florida, was arrested in a Winn-Dixie parking lot on Friday after he sent his ex-girlfriend a series of disturbing texts in which he allegedly threatened to commit a mass shooting, the Volusia County Sheriff's Office said. The ex-girlfriend alerted authorities.

In the messages, the 25-year-old said he wanted to open fire on a large crowd of people, the sheriff's office said in a news release. "A good 100 kills would be nice," one message allegedly read. Wix also said he already had a location in mind, according to the sheriff's office.

And in Ohio, 20-year-old James Patrick Reardon was arrested for allegedly threatening to carry out a shooting at a Youngstown Jewish community center.

An Instagram account belonging to Reardon shared a video that showed a man firing a gun, New Middletown Police Chief Vincent D'Egidio told CNN. The post -- which was shown to an officer out on an unrelated call -- tagged the Jewish Community Center of Youngstown, D'Egidio said.

[NobodyHere]

It seems like we're failing the young men in our society

[EagleFan]

Seems more like young men failing society.

[RainMaker]

3 more white supremacists?

[RainMaker]

Tough to tell which ones are legit and which ones are talk. Nice to see threats are being taken more seriously.

Former Ward 2 ANC charged with threatening to shoot a man and 'all Muslims' at a hookah lounge and restaurant

[QuikSand]

It's going to work again.

Three mass shootings in one weekend, carnage all over the country, and tons of people saying "we can't let this keep happening!" and here we are, a couple weeks later. The pro-gun advocates started with an absurd misdirection play and pointed at video games, the GOP tactically talks about mental health (despite reliably opposing programs to target mental health), and while these issues eventually fade away... so does any momentum to do a goddamn thing.

I confess that I don't genuinely believe that clip limits and model bans and website shutdowns will solve the problem of mass civilian gun killings (setting aside, for the moment, our many drug-related killings and horrifying numbers of suicides that also depend on easy gun access) ... but at this point, I feel if we don't start doing things that have some chance of helping, we are culpable.

And you can see it already. The forces of bullshit are winning, the momentum is waning, and we'll just sit idly by until another 22 children get shot up at a shopping mall or a school or a movie theater, and then they'll be back to say it's not about guns, it's about what-the-fuck-ever.

Lather. Rinse. Bury the dead. Repeat.

FFS

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It's going to work again.

Three mass shootings in one weekend, carnage all over the country, and tons of people saying "we can't let this keep happening!" and here we are, a couple weeks later. The pro-gun advocates started with an absurd misdirection play and pointed at video games, the GOP tactically talks about mental health (despite reliably opposing programs to target mental health), and while these issues eventually fade away... so does any momentum to do a goddamn thing.

I confess that I don't genuinely believe that clip limits and model bans and website shutdowns will solve the problem of mass civilian gun killings (setting aside, for the moment, our many drug-related killings and horrifying numbers of suicides that also depend on easy gun access) ... but at this point, I feel if we don't start doing things that have some chance of helping, we are culpable.

And you can see it already. The forces of bullshit are winning, the momentum is waning, and we'll just sit idly by until another 22 children get shot up at a shopping mall or a school or a movie theater, and then they'll be back to say it's not about guns, it's about what-the-fuck-ever.

Lather. Rinse. Bury the dead. Repeat.

FFS

Trump also quietly dropped his support for expanded background checks.

So far the GOP playbook on these seems to be to throw shit against the wall (video games and mental health right now) to move the discussion away from attacking guns and toward either defending video games or discussing mental health warning signs (based on the current scapegoats). Once the public has tired of that discussion we're 2-3 weeks past the shooting and no one has the energy or desire to pick up the fight against guns again. Pressure on the GOP then goes away until the next shooting.

Then, as you said, Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

El Paso man with no remaining family invites community to shooting victim wife's funeral - KVIA

7-800 random strangers showed up to help him mourn. I’m glad he didn’t spend the day alone.

[GrantDawg]

I agree with the people who say the NRA isn't waning or going broke. They are just standing down because they have already won. They have baked the system deep to defend itself against any gun legislation ever passing.

[miked]

Don't forget they also got half the Rs in congress to vote against the renewal of the violence against women act.

[BYU 14]

Had a first in 30+ years of coaching last night. Had a shooting right across the street from our practice field at the school, about 100 yards from where we were at, 8-10 shots fired, 1 person hit and likely didn't/won't make it.

This is an inner city high school and the truly sad part (beyond someone getting shot) was that the kids seemed to take this in stride because there is so much of it down there. Thankfully none of our players were hurt and we got them all off the field until police arrived.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Had a first in 30+ years of coaching last night. Had a shooting right across the street from our practice field at the school, about 100 yards from where we were at, 8-10 shots fired, 1 person hit and likely didn't/won't make it.

This is an inner city high school and the truly sad part (beyond someone getting shot) was that the kids seemed to take this in stride because there is so much of it down there. Thankfully none of our players were hurt and we got them all off the field until police arrived.

Saw your post on FB - Good thing you and your team was safe. Keep up the good work!

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Saw your post on FB - Good thing you and your team was safe. Keep up the good work!

Thanks bro and I'll be getting the BYU tix this weekend, I'll shoot you a text.

[RainMaker]

A Maryland man arrested on federal interstate threats charges after saying he wanted to exterminate Hispanics wrote: "I thank God everyday President Donald John Trump is President and that he will launch a Racial War and Crusade" against people who aren't white. pic.twitter.com/Z2fz8e5VhB

— Brad Heath (@bradheath) August 20, 2019

[RainMaker]

How do you even get a grenade launcher?

Weapons cache, grenade launcher, Neo-Nazi literature and instructions for owning slaves found in man’s home https://t.co/7HwjENJsV4

— Raw Story (@RawStory) August 20, 2019

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

A Maryland man arrested on federal interstate threats charges after saying he wanted to exterminate Hispanics wrote: "I thank God everyday President Donald John Trump is President and that he will launch a Racial War and Crusade" against people who aren't white. pic.twitter.com/Z2fz8e5VhB

— Brad Heath (@bradheath) August 20, 2019

Spain be like, umm, WTF did we do?

[ISiddiqui]

You kind of want to be there when he's told that Spanish people are white.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How do you even get a grenade launcher?

Weapons cache, grenade launcher, Neo-Nazi literature and instructions for owning slaves found in man’s home https://t.co/7HwjENJsV4

— Raw Story (@RawStory) August 20, 2019

The same place you get "instructions for owning slaves"

Step 1: procure a slave
The End