LXXVII Spawn III: Game Over (See Post 4507)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

hmm, somehow i read that there wa still some measure of damage to the pens.... i guess thats what happens when im 5 pages back!

It's ok, that's only the eleventieth error you've made in an attempt to pin blame upon me. You're forgiven...again.

You're still not worth lynching, even if you don't become an engineer until tomorrow.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Crap, is this another of those times were Pass has his vote elsewhere, pelts me with questions all day, then switches to me at the last minute and is wrong again?

I hated that.

And anyway, I'm sure you knew that switch was coming!! Didn't I switch my vote at deadline like every day that game?

[Danny]

I read my PM again. I really don't think it is implying Jeheinz is bad.. When it mentions I can feel spawn, it says "THE" and not "A". Personally, I will not be voting for Jeheinz today as tomorrow we should be able to clear this up.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

hahahaahahahahahahahaahahah

No. I don't suspect you at all, really. I just don't think you should be trying to get the replicant to scan Danny here -- you seem to think he's not likely to be spawn, anyway.

Well, if I'm understanding correctly, the replicant is a 1-time deal to mimic another power.

I don't think Danny is spawn, just because a lie there would've been a poor play, but on the flip side, I'm not a Spawn and I don't know what the concrete explaination is for why he got the note.

I think if I had to pick, at this point I still prefer the idea that the replicant scan path, clear him, effectively clearing the people he scans since we can brig path to protect him.

[hoopsguy]

Render - initial tweak of suspicion from me with his "throw out a vote and we'll follow" post yesterday, although I didn't comment on it (publicly) at the time. I'll dig up post # if people need to see it. I'm certainly not the only guy who gets bad vibes from those kinds of posts.

Today - we now have two members of the officers cleared by the seer. Regardless of Path's faction, he probably isn't giving fake clears yet (would he?). I know my allegiance, so that leaves RendeR + Telle.

I'm going with my gut on RendeR over the odds on Telle (2 away missions). Her "very successful" initial mission could have been just a good random.org result, but it sounds like today was a good one as well. That is enough to temper my worries about her to a level below RendeR, although I'll likely return to her tomorrow if we lynch RendeR and find him good.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And anyway, I'm sure you knew that switch was coming!! Didn't I switch my vote at deadline like every day that game?

Yeah I did

Yeah you did

And yeah, you were still bleepin' wrong!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well, if I'm understanding correctly, the replicant is a 1-time deal to mimic another power.

I don't think Danny is spawn, just because a lie there would've been a poor play, but on the flip side, I'm not a Spawn and I don't know what the concrete explaination is for why he got the note.

I think if I had to pick, at this point I still prefer the idea that the replicant scan path, clear him, effectively clearing the people he scans since we can brig path to protect him.

I agree with your last paragraph -- that's why all this noise about Danny worries me.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Danny

I read my PM again. I really don't think it is implying Jeheinz is bad.. When it mentions I can feel spawn, it says "THE" and not "A". Personally, I will not be voting for Jeheinz today as tomorrow we should be able to clear this up.

This couldn't have been mentioned like before the dissertations I typed up?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Hoops (anyone really)

Not to imply you're wrong, just gauging if I should move, what are the repercussions of us lynching RendeR?

You become 2nd officer and Telle becomes Security Chief? Does someone else become Ensign (Tyrith?)

I'm not sure on Ensign - I think we may need to promote/train a new one. Hopefully BK can clarify.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I agree with your last paragraph -- that's why all this noise about Danny worries me.

Yes, and this is admiteddly self-serving, the me/Danny/Aware issue is best served by waiting until tomorrow.

We've got our repair orders in, even if Danny is spawn, if he fakes I'll finish the deal (*hello any security person want to start at least acknowledging the necessity that is guarding the hold?*). If you all believe him and I fake, he'd finish it.

Not dying of thirst should be of chief concern right now.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Danny

It would make absolutely no sense for me to lie about that message. It is possible I am a spawnling, though it doesn't seem to indicate that if I am reading it correctly. I've already said that even if the message did mean Spawn aware that it doesn't mean you have to be bad.

Again, based on my reading of it, it's possible the message was simply indicating me of a power I am going to have and not necessarily have anything to do with who was near me. I would advise not voting for you today even if I come clean as we'll know more tomorrow.

I agree with this. If Danny is spawn or spawnling, why call attention to himself by mentioning the note on his PM? Makes no sense to me, and I'm a little surprised that hoops is pushing it.

We need to start a CoT. I'm key to that since I'm the one doing scans. The replicant should scan me -- that way we know my scans can be trusted and we can start building some solid trust circles here. Scanning Danny is taking a shot in the dark for vague reasons.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not sure on Ensign - I think we may need to promote/train a new one. Hopefully BK can clarify.

Gotcha. And if a Spawn was to be the 2nd in Command (or whatev) what would be the benefits to the Spawn? I mean of course, you can't really fake a mission. What else could they do in that spot?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Render - initial tweak of suspicion from me with his "throw out a vote and we'll follow" post yesterday, although I didn't comment on it (publicly) at the time. I'll dig up post # if people need to see it. I'm certainly not the only guy who gets bad vibes from those kinds of posts.

Today - we now have two members of the officers cleared by the seer. Regardless of Path's faction, he probably isn't giving fake clears yet (would he?). I know my allegiance, so that leaves RendeR + Telle.

I'm going with my gut on RendeR over the odds on Telle (2 away missions). Her "very successful" initial mission could have been just a good random.org result, but it sounds like today was a good one as well. That is enough to temper my worries about her to a level below RendeR, although I'll likely return to her tomorrow if we lynch RendeR and find him good.

I totally remember the post you were talking about from yesterday -- I don't know the post number either, though.

Can path really give fake clears? He dies if he finds spawn, right? But he can probably fake his action?

By the way, I love that mechanic -- if the seer finds a spawn, just kill them both and move on. Much better than sitting around voting nightfall for a full day (or two).

[Danny]

Shh, I'm raising our post counts!

I was trying to leave some doubt about what the message stated exactly since I don't want the spawn to know for sure. I also don't want to see you get voted for though when I am cleared.

If I get different information tomorrow that could change of course, but for now there's no reason to lynch you.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I'm cool with having dissenting discussion on the Replicant. I would just remind people that we can have the Trainer bring up a Medic (we have one now, another on the way) who will be able to scan the doc later in the game. So it isn't that we lose our ability to scan Path for the duration if the replicant chooses someone else.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I don't like the idea of piling on PF; however, I don't think a No Lynch is a smart move. I have no freaking idea what to do. Throw a random name in the hat? Pile on PF? Take the easy route and vote No Lynch? I'm not going to do what I did yesterday, and vote oliegirl, because I still feel bad about that (Sorry!!!).

All of this indecision, and the need for SOMETHING to happen leads me to this:

Vote PackerFanatic

You should feel bad!!! Just kidding...

I was "this close" to opening up a can of olierage on you last night, but then realized you were tired and it was just a misunderstanding...but I did give you a phaser tonight so you should be happy now

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, I'm cool with having dissenting discussion on the Replicant. I would just remind people that we can have the Trainer bring up a Medic (we have one now, another on the way) who will be able to scan the doc later in the game. So it isn't that we lose our ability to scan Path for the duration if the replicant chooses someone else.

I don't think Medics can scan.

[LoneStarGirl]

Olie, when can the scientists be expecting phasers?

[LoneStarGirl]

But can converted medics scan?

[oliegirl]

VOTE PACKERFANATIC

Unfortunately, there isn't an overwhelming case against him, but I dont' agree with a no lynch vote and of the candidates we have, he is the most expendable.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not sure on Ensign - I think we may need to promote/train a new one. Hopefully BK can clarify.

No one is automatically made an Ensign. The Second Officer needs to train someone for two days.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Olie, when can the scientists be expecting phasers?

When it becomes necessary for them to have them...I guess that would be something you would need to take up with Hoops. I'm taking directive from him on who to give them to. I changed it up a little last night from his suggestions, but followed them today.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can path really give fake clears? He dies if he finds spawn, right? But he can probably fake his action?

By the way, I love that mechanic -- if the seer finds a spawn, just kill them both and move on. Much better than sitting around voting nightfall for a full day (or two).

It's hard to give fake clears when it is announced that the subject of my scan and I go into the office together.....since as you correctly point out, I'm dead if I find a spawn.

This is the third thing that hoops has said today that is giving me the heebie-jeebies. First it was the thing about minimum 3 spawn, then it was pushing the replicant to scan Danny, now it's suggesting I can fake clear. Hoops knows rules better than that, and no way he hasn't read the rules to this game.

I'm thinking hard about switching my vote.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't think Medics can scan.

Four things.

UNVOTE PACKERFANATIC
VOTE HOOPSGUY

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

I agree with this. If Danny is spawn or spawnling, why call attention to himself by mentioning the note on his PM? Makes no sense to me, and I'm a little surprised that hoops is pushing it.

We need to start a CoT. I'm key to that since I'm the one doing scans. The replicant should scan me -- that way we know my scans can be trusted and we can start building some solid trust circles here. Scanning Danny is taking a shot in the dark for vague reasons.

Personally, I'm already granting you implicit trust - you are going to get scanned if you stay alive in this game. Whether that is tomorrow or the day after, it doesn't make a ton of difference for me as I'm trying to figure out the right move on D2. Consider "Path's Scans = Trusted" to be a moderate assumption on my part up to this point.

I want to make the right move TODAY. That is my priority at the moment, and that is why I've proposed the idea of scanning Danny today. There are a few outcomes:
1.) Danny is spawnling = cured, duplicant lives as well. Not necessarily the case if/when you scan him later in game (very good)
2.) Danny is good, we have strong reason to believe him being Spawn Aware, path leads to Heinz and we lynch a Spawn (mostly good, bad result for repairs right now)
3.) Danny is good, we have strong reason to believe him being Spawn Aware, but are wrong on Heinz (very bad)
4.) Danny is a Spawn, making a move I don't understand (playing off of Alan?) - we get a Spawn, maybe in a 1:1 trade, that doesn't involve our everyday medic (very good)

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by path12

Four things.

UNVOTE PACKERFANATIC
VOTE HOOPSGUY

explain yourself please

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

It's hard to give fake clears when it is announced that the subject of my scan and I go into the office together.....since as you correctly point out, I'm dead if I find a spawn.

This is the third thing that hoops has said today that is giving me the heebie-jeebies. First it was the thing about minimum 3 spawn, then it was pushing the replicant to scan Danny, now it's suggesting I can fake clear. Hoops knows rules better than that, and no way he hasn't read the rules to this game.

I'm thinking hard about switching my vote.

IIRC, Spawn I had a fake clear -- the two people involved (dubb and RA, maybe?) went into a room together, then came out an hour later. Faking duties is in the game. It's much better than suggesting that the warden can go in and out of the brig at will!

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't think Medics can scan.

Trainer brings up medic to doctor.

[hoopsguy]

Path, please scan me tomorrow. I would like to be "fake cleared"

I think I've been very consistent in saying I trust your scans, if not entirely you. For that reason, I don't consider it a absolute necessity that you are the target of the replicant early in the game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Trainer brings up medic to doctor.

Ah, I see. So what happens if we lose the Trainer?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Ah, I see. So what happens if we lose the Trainer?

I believe the cool kids call that Welcome to Shit Creek (wrt making a new doctor)

[path12]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

explain yourself please

LSG, sometimes I get the feeling you don't even read the posts.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Ah, I see. So what happens if we lose the Trainer?

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I believe the cool kids call that Welcome to Shit Creek (wrt making a new doctor)

Another possible use of the replicant? Other than that, I don't see a way to replace this role.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Personally, I'm already granting you implicit trust - you are going to get scanned if you stay alive in this game. Whether that is tomorrow or the day after, it doesn't make a ton of difference for me as I'm trying to figure out the right move on D2. Consider "Path's Scans = Trusted" to be a moderate assumption on my part up to this point.

I want to make the right move TODAY. That is my priority at the moment, and that is why I've proposed the idea of scanning Danny today. There are a few outcomes:
1.) Danny is spawnling = cured, duplicant lives as well. Not necessarily the case if/when you scan him later in game (very good)
2.) Danny is good, we have strong reason to believe him being Spawn Aware, path leads to Heinz and we lynch a Spawn (mostly good, bad result for repairs right now)
3.) Danny is good, we have strong reason to believe him being Spawn Aware, but are wrong on Heinz (very bad)
4.) Danny is a Spawn, making a move I don't understand (playing off of Alan?) - we get a Spawn, maybe in a 1:1 trade, that doesn't involve our everyday medic (very good)

You seem to be ignoring the fact that multiple times I have said that me being cleared doesn't mean lynching Jeheinz is a good action. From the way my message is worded, it does not sound like it is referring to jeheinz. And if it is, we will know tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

Replicant = Duplicant.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Danny

You seem to be ignoring the fact that multiple times I have said that me being cleared doesn't mean lynching Jeheinz is a good action. From the way my message is worded, it does not sound like it is referring to jeheinz. And if it is, we will know tomorrow.

Danny, I've put my vote elsewhere, in part because of what you have said. However, it was suggested that I wasn't being rational in my approach. So I did my best to spell out the argument I had made earlier in the day.

I agree we'll find out more info tomorrow on you + Heinz.

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by path12

LSG, sometimes I get the feeling you don't even read the posts.

haha sometimes I dont... but i wanted you to explain the 'four things' not the vote for hoops.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, please scan me tomorrow. I would like to be "fake cleared"

I think I've been very consistent in saying I trust your scans, if not entirely you. For that reason, I don't consider it a absolute necessity that you are the target of the replicant early in the game.

hoops, I'm not saying that you do or don't trust me or my scans -- I think my actions in this game have been pretty upfront and clear, and once I hit a spawn we'll know 100% about me. My vote for Packer was based more on who is or isn't more expendable. My switch to you is more based on a bad feeling I'm getting based on the points I've noted above (though I guess Pass is correct that I could fake scan if I wanted to play that, I hadn't considered that -- but man, if the seer is bad off the bat the survivors were screwed anyway!), and that a medic could be eventually trained up to doctor and then scan......and I'd always prefer to vote on an actual feeling than just who can we spare, if that makes sense.

[Poli]

About time to bow out of watching this game. I'm down some 16 pages.

[path12]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

haha sometimes I dont... but i wanted you to explain the 'four things' not the vote for hoops.

Originally Posted by path12

It's hard to give fake clears when it is announced that the subject of my scan and I go into the office together.....since as you correctly point out, I'm dead if I find a spawn.

This is the third thing that hoops has said today that is giving me the heebie-jeebies. First it was the thing about minimum 3 spawn, then it was pushing the replicant to scan Danny, now it's suggesting I can fake clear. Hoops knows rules better than that, and no way he hasn't read the rules to this game.

I'm thinking hard about switching my vote.

To quote the post where I gave my reasons. Also my last post I back off a little bit on the third and fourth point (which was about the medic scanning).

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by path12

It's hard to give fake clears when it is announced that the subject of my scan and I go into the office together.....since as you correctly point out, I'm dead if I find a spawn.

This is the third thing that hoops has said today that is giving me the heebie-jeebies. First it was the thing about minimum 3 spawn, then it was pushing the replicant to scan Danny, now it's suggesting I can fake clear. Hoops knows rules better than that, and no way he hasn't read the rules to this game.

I'm thinking hard about switching my vote.

Yes, yes.

Almost everything Hoops has said this game has given me the heebie-jeebies.

I am definitely on board with this.

Unvote No Lynch
Vote Hoopsguy

[hoopsguy]

This seems like a pretty good time to break out the initial "trust list". I'm pretty pleased that we are still seeing conversation even without the pressure of votes, more or less.

Trusted (in order): self, Alan (most recent scan), KWhit (yestedays scan, supposedly guarded), Olie (verified her night action), Saldana (Olie verified her action)
Neither: everyone not listed, although right now Jackal + Chubby are closer to distrusted than trusted
Distrusted (last listed = most distrusted): PackerFanatic (exhausted), Bulletsponge (exhausted), Heinz (either good or bad read), Telle (Officer Theory + 2 away missions), RendeR (Officer Theory + good/bad read)

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

I'd always prefer to vote on an actual feeling than just who can we spare, if that makes sense.

Same argument I made most of the afternoon about Heinz, so I can't hold this against you.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Danny, I've put my vote elsewhere, in part because of what you have said. However, it was suggested that I wasn't being rational in my approach. So I did my best to spell out the argument I had made earlier in the day.

I agree we'll find out more info tomorrow on you + Heinz.

Sounds good.

I do understand suspicion on you honestly. You've made a few plays that seem wolfish to me too. On the other hand, if you are a wolf, would you have made those plays that seem wolfish? I'd prefer to see a two man race either way

Vote Hoopsguy

[PurdueBrad]

Hoops always gives me the heebie-jeebies and I usually avoid voting for him because I'm always certain he'll turn it on me. Hoops is a vote that I think I can follow but I'm still not sure.

I've been bothered by his early push that an engineer is likely a spawn when the numbers don't bear it out more than any other position (and even less so than the officers I believe). Also, his strong suspicion or push that there could be four starting spawn when the best info we have does say two or three.

I'm likely to move my vote but we'll see as I'm not super-excited about voting the security officer either.

[PurdueBrad]

Plus I hate voting into the middle of a run so I'll hold off for a while to make my decision.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

To quote the post where I gave my reasons. Also my last post I back off a little bit on the third and fourth point (which was about the medic scanning).

Point #1 - I honestly don't get why you would think it is bad I'm playing against one too many opponents rather than one too few? This is the worst reason of all the ones you listed, in my opinion. Beyond that, neither of us can prove the point if we aren't Spawn. We'll see in the post-game, but I will be absolutely shocked if there were only two starting spawn.

Point #2 - I've laid out my points on the Danny duplicant thing in a lot of detail, but you don't comment on the scenarios I paint, just that I don't want you scanned. If you are good, then why is it so important for you to be scanned instead of scanning someone who might be a Spawn? I know the obvious "because others need to trust my scans for the COT" but I think I've addressed this in multiple posts. The duplicant isn't the only path to scan you.

Point #3 and Point #4 - you say that you've backed off them, so I won't continue debating.

Look, if your gut says I'm Spawn then go ahead and try to lynch me. But if you actually want to have a discussion on the points then I'll be around to do so. Plus you have it entirely in your power to clear me tomorrow - just as you did today.

[jeheinz72]

I think the issue, at least my issue hoops, with #1 is that it's fine to play against one too many when A) It's feasible and B) You're not jiggering numbers to portray the idea that we should vote into our most important group of people at the moment (the engineers)

[PurdueBrad]

I'm leaving for softball in about half an hour but am really torn on this. IF I vote Hoops, know that it is not meant to be hit and run, that I will have put a ton of thought into it. IF I stay no lynch, it's because Hoops was the #1 way I would've gone and my numbers 2-21 (or however many there are) just don't feel real strong. Although it is starting to look like no lynch is a waste if it can be overridden by a 1/3 minority, even if the other 2/3's are on no lynch.

[KWhit]

My thoughts on Hoops and why I'm voting for him:

Adamantly argued against No Lynch when the prevailing wisdom indicates that one shouldn't lynch unless you have a reason to vote against someone on day one in a game like this with such important external objectives.

Ignored the very clear initial post by BK on how many Spawn we started out with. He did this to pursue a lynch of an engineer - a very important role for us right now.

When that didn't work, turned to the officers going on the offensive with the attitude of "An officer pretty much has to be a Spawn, so go after the other two - not me." He knows he will be scanned soon, so he wants to take others down before he is.

Wants the replicant to scan Danny and not the doc to clear him.