Werewolf XXXIX: The Lady of La Rochelle–GAME OVER.

[BrianD]

Ok, Tyrith, if you were guarding Blade, how did a conversion attempt get past you?

[Coffee Warlord]

That would certainly explain one kill instead of two.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Now, i felt this was fairly well out there, but if im an ex-musketeer who sold them out with an uncontrollable rage, do you really think im going to be able to become a musketeer again? My role stipulates i cannot become a musketeer again. Of all the players alive, why try to convert me? I didnt tell you i couldnt be converted for just this reason, but im a little stunned they did actually try. Wouldnt my story kind of imply that im less likely to be converted then any other guard? No offense bad guys, but last night might have just cost you the game if that was a one-time power. I hate and hunt musketeers, why would i be able to become one again? *rant over*

I can buy this version of events. I suspected that the man in black wasn't there for a good reason.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Ok, Tyrith, if you were guarding Blade, how did a conversion attempt get past you?

He wasn't there to hurt blade, I can't just kill all of his visitors :P

[st.cronin]

hmmmmmmm

I *think* I believe Blade.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

He wasn't there to hurt blade, I can't just kill all of his visitors :P

He was there to take Blade from the good team (assuming his is telling the truth) to the bad team. That wouldn't be worth protecting?

[BrianD]

This whole Blade/Tyrith thing has me really uneasy.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

He was there to take Blade from the good team (assuming his is telling the truth) to the bad team. That wouldn't be worth protecting?

I don't get to overhear his conversations. I was hiding; if I just stand out there people would run away. Furthermore, I don't get to make those kind of kill/no kill value judgments; this is a game with set roles. I protect players from attacks, an a conversation--or conversion--isn't a direct attack.

[hoopsguy]

This game has to be pretty amusing for Gramm, processing all these actions on the same people.

Brian, can you give me a rundown of the night-by-night activities so far?

[Tyrith]

VOTE NTNDEACON

Uncleared, last night was a night with no kills, needs to be killed at some point in his career just to keep him honest. Coffee, lathum, and daddy are among my other suspects right now.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I don't get to overhear his conversations. I was hiding; if I just stand out there people would run away. Furthermore, I don't get to make those kind of kill/no kill value judgments; this is a game with set roles. I protect players from attacks, an a conversation--or conversion--isn't a direct attack.

I don't buy this at all. If you are hiding, you won't know to go into his room and protect him until the dagger is already in his heart. The whole point of a bodyguard is to intercede before the visitor confronts the person you are guarding. At the very least, your target should have to tell you to allow someone good to come through.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This game has to be pretty amusing for Gramm, processing all these actions on the same people.

Brian, can you give me a rundown of the night-by-night activities so far?

The ones that I have been involved in, or all of them that have been reported?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't buy this at all. If you are hiding, you won't know to go into his room and protect him until the dagger is already in his heart. The whole point of a bodyguard is to intercede before the visitor confronts the person you are guarding. At the very least, your target should have to tell you to allow someone good to come through.

My targets don't know that I'm guarding them. Otherwise if they were bad they could just kill me. Furthermore, someone either has to be let into a room or force entry. Force entry is pretty simple, and when blade answered the door I was about ready to pounce on his visitor last night. Just get over it already.

[hoopsguy]

Brian, just the ones that were results of your actions.

[st.cronin]

Tyrith and Blade's version of last night seem compatible to me, Brian.

fwiw

[hoopsguy]

Here are my snapshot assessments of the remaining players:


2 st.cronin - priest?
3 DaddyTorgo - pleasant lad?
5 path12 - blackmailed guard?
6 Lathum - persuasive
8 Tyrith - bodyguard?
9 Blade6119 - seer?
11 ntndeacon - ???
12 Fouts - duke
14 BrianD - witness?, cleared by Blade
15 Coffee Warlord - tough night kill?
18 LoneStarGirl - can't resist duels, cleared by Blade
20 hoopsguy - cleared by Blade


Duel set up between Path and LSG (forced?) - only makes sense as bluff if Path wins

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

My targets don't know that I'm guarding them. Otherwise if they were bad they could just kill me. Furthermore, someone either has to be let into a room or force entry. Force entry is pretty simple, and when blade answered the door I was about ready to pounce on his visitor last night. Just get over it already.

So you overheard the hooker with Hoops, but you didn't overhear Blade's conversation? You weren't out in front of Blade's door because you were hiding, but you had to leave your hiding spot outside of Hoop's door to pee in a potted plant? Sound like a few contradictions here.

[hoopsguy]

To a large extent, the Muskateers seem to have gone after people who are stronger fighters with their night actions.

Night 1 - killed Izulde
Night 2 - killed Barkeep (not sure if they knew he was skilled figther)
Night 3 - killed Dubb, attempted to convert Blade

Yet they have left alone the two people who have won duels, NTN and Coffee Warlord.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Tyrith and Blade's version of last night seem compatible to me, Brian.

fwiw

My problem is that they seem to have the ring of truth. There are enough details in common to make them match, but there is enough missing to make it odd. Tyrith's seeming contradictions seem odd as well. I'm just wondering if there is any chance they put this story together.

1. Tyrith comes out with a reveal when he isn't in danger because he fears Hoops' attack.
2. Tyrith comes out with a story with a couple of firm details.
3. Blade confirms the firm details while insisting Tyrith missed much of the events.
4. Blade still seems to trust Tyrith when he is usually very mistrustful.
5. Tyrith's details seem a bit contradictory.

It just feels off...especially the fact that Blade trusts Tyrith even though nobody has scanned him. Blade isn't usually that trusting.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So you overheard the hooker with Hoops, but you didn't overhear Blade's conversation? You weren't out in front of Blade's door because you were hiding, but you had to leave your hiding spot outside of Hoop's door to pee in a potted plant? Sound like a few contradictions here.

I overheard hoops from outside the door because they were being loud :P

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

To a large extent, the Muskateers seem to have gone after people who are stronger fighters with their night actions.

Night 1 - killed Izulde
Night 2 - killed Barkeep (not sure if they knew he was skilled figther)
Night 3 - killed Dubb, attempted to convert Blade

Yet they have left alone the two people who have won duels, NTN and Coffee Warlord.

What about Alan and Mr Wed?

[hoopsguy]

Also, a conversion attempt could explain the single kill last night.

Open questions:
- who has a role remaining that could have sent a woman to see NTN last night and Path earlier in the game?
- do the night kills, which have mixed in high profile players and better fighters, suggest a certain person being behind the actions?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

My problem is that they seem to have the ring of truth. There are enough details in common to make them match, but there is enough missing to make it odd. Tyrith's seeming contradictions seem odd as well. I'm just wondering if there is any chance they put this story together.

1. Tyrith comes out with a reveal when he isn't in danger because he fears Hoops' attack.
2. Tyrith comes out with a story with a couple of firm details.
3. Blade confirms the firm details while insisting Tyrith missed much of the events.
4. Blade still seems to trust Tyrith when he is usually very mistrustful.
5. Tyrith's details seem a bit contradictory.

It just feels off...especially the fact that Blade trusts Tyrith even though nobody has scanned him. Blade isn't usually that trusting.

1) Hoops confirmed he was going to come after me today if I didn't give up some role info.
3) I missed his regular night action when the rules say we all have servants anyway.
5) I BLOCK ATTACKS. I DO NOT BLOCK RANDOM PEOPLE THAT BLADE TALKS TO. And I'm obviously not all seeing, big deal.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Brian, just the ones that were results of your actions.

Night 1 I listened at your door. I heard the woman giggling and making the comment about the "writing desk" *shudder* and left apparently right away.

Night 2 I listened at DT's door, eventually heard snoring, waited through the night and left.

Night 3 I listened at NTS's door, heard him with the woman, waited until dawn and left.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by BrianD

My problem is that they seem to have the ring of truth. There are enough details in common to make them match, but there is enough missing to make it odd. Tyrith's seeming contradictions seem odd as well. I'm just wondering if there is any chance they put this story together.

1. Tyrith comes out with a reveal when he isn't in danger because he fears Hoops' attack.
2. Tyrith comes out with a story with a couple of firm details.
3. Blade confirms the firm details while insisting Tyrith missed much of the events.
4. Blade still seems to trust Tyrith when he is usually very mistrustful.
5. Tyrith's details seem a bit contradictory.

It just feels off...especially the fact that Blade trusts Tyrith even though nobody has scanned him. Blade isn't usually that trusting.

Let me try to work through some alternate versions.

1. Blade was converted by Tyrith last night. Why come out with this particular version of events, in that case? Wouldn't it be easier for Blade to claim that he had scanned Tyrith? I just don't see this as plausible.

2. Blade is bad, Tyrith is good. In this case, since I had already set up the alibi for Blade with my earlier posts, why differ from that at all? Why not claim the man in black was his servant? Although he might be worried that Tyrith was holding back some piece of information, and I can see this as a possible scenario.

3. Blade is good, Tyrith is bad. In this case, what was Tyrith doing outside Blade's door at all? Was he chased off by somebody else? If so, who? Dubb?

To me, the most plausible explanation is that both are being truthful.

[Tyrith]

Bleh, conversion attempt explains the whole one kill thing better than ntn stuff. I'm not going to change my vote--who else is better, except maybe CW?--but bleh. Maybe we could have ntn and CW duel today and see if CW has been lying :P

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Also, a conversion attempt could explain the single kill last night.

Open questions:
- who has a role remaining that could have sent a woman to see NTN last night and Path earlier in the game?
- do the night kills, which have mixed in high profile players and better fighters, suggest a certain person being behind the actions?

Couldn't Dubb have sent the woman to NTN before getting killed? I thought we had already agreed on that one?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

What about Alan and Mr Wed?

They don't fit the profile of skilled fighters as well, so I didn't include them. But I don't think there is a single remaining person in the game, except Blade and LSG, living who has claimed to be a good fighter. Maybe I've missed something, as my detailed notes are at home. They tried to convert Blade and, if Path is to be believed, are trying to use LSG against us.

[Tyrith]

Occam's razor FTW

[Tyrith]

I'd like to note that I have both a good role and really good fighting skills -- barkeep was training to be me, and he killed sndvls, imagine how good I am?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Couldn't Dubb have sent the woman to NTN before getting killed? I thought we had already agreed on that one?

OK, but Blade claims that a 2nd visitor "came twice". I initially assumed this meant that Dubb sent a woman to Blade instead of NTN. But I'm not sure of this, as I wonder how this would have played with a conversion attempt?

[st.cronin]

Does that mean that at night, fighting skill doesn't come into play? That would make sense.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Bleh, conversion attempt explains the whole one kill thing better than ntn stuff. I'm not going to change my vote--who else is better, except maybe CW?--but bleh. Maybe we could have ntn and CW duel today and see if CW has been lying :P

My ass hurts, though.

Seriously though, going back to the one kill last night vs multikill the previous...if we assume Blade is telling the truth and they tried to convert him last night (reasonable that conversion would replace a kill), who's controlling path and to what end? I don't think it very likely the wolves would be able to kill, convert, and force path to challenge someone in a single night.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

1) Hoops confirmed he was going to come after me today if I didn't give up some role info.
3) I missed his regular night action when the rules say we all have servants anyway.
5) I BLOCK ATTACKS. I DO NOT BLOCK RANDOM PEOPLE THAT BLADE TALKS TO. And I'm obviously not all seeing, big deal.

You contradictions weren't about blocking a conversion, but about how you stand guard and whether you hide or not. By the way, I just checked back and it turns out that I was hiding behind a potted plant outside Hoops' door before I went to listen to it. Either there is more than one potted plant in that area, or that plant isn't why we failed to see each other.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, but Blade claims that a 2nd visitor "came twice". I initially assumed this meant that Dubb sent a woman to Blade instead of NTN. But I'm not sure of this, as I wonder how this would have played with a conversion attempt?

I thought that visitor came twice, once to get the spying orders, and once to return the results.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Let me try to work through some alternate versions.

1. Blade was converted by Tyrith last night. Why come out with this particular version of events, in that case? Wouldn't it be easier for Blade to claim that he had scanned Tyrith? I just don't see this as plausible.

2. Blade is bad, Tyrith is good. In this case, since I had already set up the alibi for Blade with my earlier posts, why differ from that at all? Why not claim the man in black was his servant? Although he might be worried that Tyrith was holding back some piece of information, and I can see this as a possible scenario.

3. Blade is good, Tyrith is bad. In this case, what was Tyrith doing outside Blade's door at all? Was he chased off by somebody else? If so, who? Dubb?

To me, the most plausible explanation is that both are being truthful.

Why no possibility of them both being bad and concocting this story? Am I forgetting about some earlier info about these two?

[Tyrith]

Fighting skill does matter at night. That's how barkeep killed sndvls. Barkeep was awake, so it most likely triggered a duel that barkeep won, and then sndvls brutaled him. However, if you're asleep you just get killed.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Why no possibility of them both being bad and concocting this story? Am I forgetting about some earlier info about these two?

Then couldn't I have left off the part about the man in black visiting last night and spared us the trouble of connecting ourselves to each other?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Then couldn't I have left off the part about the man in black visiting last night and spared us the trouble of connecting ourselves to each other?

If I remember correctly, neither you nor Blade had anyone vouch for you yet. If this was all a ploy, you would need a common detail to make your story work.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by BrianD

If I remember correctly, neither you nor Blade had anyone vouch for you yet. If this was all a ploy, you would need a common detail to make your story work.

If we assume blade is bad, then no one has vouched for YOU either. How do I know you aren't the man in black and you and blade are conspiring to cover up the story?

[Tyrith]

I'd would like to note that the fact that I trust blade is the only, the ONLY reason I haven't challenged you by now.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Why no possibility of them both being bad and concocting this story? Am I forgetting about some earlier info about these two?

Because in that case, what would Tyrith be doing outside Blade's door at all.

[hoopsguy]

Brian, I'm not ready to go down the path of both of these guys being bad today. I don't think there is any conclusive proof of Blade being good - who is around to scan the seer, especially when the first one is dead (Alan T)? And I've certainly questioned Tyrith over the course of this game. But I'm having a hard time buying that they are both playing for the bad guys with the way these stories have come out. If anything, I would expect their stories to gel more consistently if they were on the same team. The fact that there are some inconsistencies to me supports the idea that they are not both bad.

Since you viewed DT in bed on Night 2 and NTN was occupied last night that seems to suggest CW as a better option for today. The alternative would be to look at Fouts/Lathum and try to figure out which one is more likely to be a bad guy. For my money, it would be Lathum based on the power we saw demonstrated.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Because in that case, what would Tyrith be doing outside Blade's door at all.

Who says he was there?

[Tyrith]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with hoops probably if he votes for CW, the whole conversion story makes the ntn lynch less sexy.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So does that line up with Dubb sending you a visitor? And, if so, who the heck was visiting NTN, do they line up with Path's accounts, and who is sending them?

Blade, can you shed some light on the guy in black with the yellow flower who Tyrith witnessed?

Brian confirmed that someone visited me. maybe he sent her. I think that may be the case, but I am not really sure.

[st.cronin]

I actually think Lathum is the better play.

unvote ntndeacon
vote Lathum

It would be nice to get a majority on this one.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Brian, I'm not ready to go down the path of both of these guys being bad today. I don't think there is any conclusive proof of Blade being good - who is around to scan the seer, especially when the first one is dead (Alan T)? And I've certainly questioned Tyrith over the course of this game. But I'm having a hard time buying that they are both playing for the bad guys with the way these stories have come out. If anything, I would expect their stories to gel more consistently if they were on the same team. The fact that there are some inconsistencies to me supports the idea that they are not both bad.

Since you viewed DT in bed on Night 2 and NTN was occupied last night that seems to suggest CW as a better option for today. The alternative would be to look at Fouts/Lathum and try to figure out which one is more likely to be a bad guy. For my money, it would be Lathum based on the power we saw demonstrated.

I am fine with voting for CW. I did kind of like his story of knowing the dark passages and being able to avoid a night-kill (seemed too clever to be made up), but that is the only thing he's got going for him at the moment. I'm still not sure NTN is cleared in my mind, but I'm willing to wait on him too.

I'm not convinced that Blade and/or Tyrith are bad. I think their interaction is suspect, but we don't need to make a run on them now. I could be very wrong, but the amount of inconsistencies and the way Blade didn't seem to care that there were inconsistencies struck a chord with me. You know as well as I do that Blade almost never trusts anyone unless he has scanned them himself. Having said that, the inconsistencies could very well be from neither having complete info on the other. It could be totally innocent.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

That would certainly explain one kill instead of two.

And also hopefully at least give at least some credence that I am not a Musketeer, but a Cardinal guard.

[BrianD]

As long as I seem like wild-and-crazy guy now, how about a conspiracy that involves Blade, Tyrith, and NTN? NTN got his kill blocked so Blade and Tyrith concocted the "failed conversion with a witness" story so we wouldn't think the no-kill was due to NTN's visitor?

How is that for crazy? Stupid game.