POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That describes almost every single MAGA conservative. Ivy League grads, most born with money. They play to the down home folks that they would never want to spend ten minutes with.

Liberals and conservatives have very similar views on rural people.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Liberals and conservatives have very similar views on rural people.

Politicians have very similar views on poor people in general. Resources to be exploited.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That describes almost every single MAGA conservative. Ivy League grads, most born with money.

Huh?

Given our geographic proximity that's one of the more shocking takes I've ever seen you post. My experience with them -- which shouldn't be THAT different from the ones you see simply due to geography -- is almost completely opposite.

edit to add: Unless of course I pretty completely misunderstood what you were saying.

[GrantDawg]

I'm talking about the politicians. Not the rank and file.

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[RainMaker]

Yeah, I was talking about the politicians, pundits, and donors. Leaders of the Democratic Party would much prefer someone like Trump as opposed to Warren or Bernie for instance.

Heck, even Trump got pushback early on for not being from elite political circles. He is an elite (Ivy education, old money), but was viewed as "beneath them" from the establishment because he wasn't bought by the Heritage Foundation or whatever other pipeline the right has. I think part of his allure to the public is that he basically destroyed that old system. I don't like the guy but I think it was good that he exposed so many politicians.

[Lathum]

Just a moment...

Trump claiming this experience changed him (it would most people to be fair)) and he has rewritten his speech from attacking the Biden admin to a more unifying message.

Have to admit it's brilliant. He knows people will watch just out of curiosity because of Saturday and if he appears calm, unifying, and for all of America it will appeal to people on the fence. After that I'm sure he will be rage tweeting on the toilet at 3AM but the job would have been done.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm talking about the politicians. Not the rank and file.

Aight, that explains most of the disconnect I was experiencing. Thanks for clarifying.


Though I still know more rank & file true believers in office that really don't fit that mold (just not the high profile ones).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just a moment...

Trump claiming this experience changed him (it would most people to be fair)) and he has rewritten his speech from attacking the Biden admin to a more unifying message.

Have to admit it's brilliant. He knows people will watch just out of curiosity because of Saturday and if he appears calm, unifying, and for all of America it will appeal to people on the fence. After that I'm sure he will be rage tweeting on the toilet at 3AM but the job would have been done.

His inauguration speech was actually decent. For a brief moment, I thought maybe he would rise to the moment and treat the presidency with the respect it deserved. And then by the next morning, he was rage-tweeting about the media faking the size of his audience and I was like, nope, not gonna happen.

Now, a near-death experience, I guess anything can happen. But even if he feels something right now, the further away from the event he gets, and he wins the election, etc., he'll go back to his comfort zone.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just a moment...

Trump claiming this experience changed him (it would most people to be fair)) and he has rewritten his speech from attacking the Biden admin to a more unifying message.

Have to admit it's brilliant. He knows people will watch just out of curiosity because of Saturday and if he appears calm, unifying, and for all of America it will appeal to people on the fence. After that I'm sure he will be rage tweeting on the toilet at 3AM but the job would have been done.

I'm curious what unifying looks like to Trump.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm curious what unifying looks like to Trump.

Everyone bending the knee to him

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

His inauguration speech was actually decent. For a brief moment, I thought maybe he would rise to the moment and treat the presidency with the respect it deserved. And then by the next morning, he was rage-tweeting about the media faking the size of his audience and I was like, nope, not gonna happen.

Now, a near-death experience, I guess anything can happen. But even if he feels something right now, the further away from the event he gets, and he wins the election, etc., he'll go back to his comfort zone.

Nah, we've already done near death experience with him.

You get shot, then you get better

[Brian Swartz]

The projection on 538 is interesting to me. They still have it basically even (Biden 51-49), and the short version of why is basically 'people will remember the good things about the economy, the 'fundamentals' will tip it Biden's way over the next couple of months'.

I don't see it that way, but I usually agree with them, and I want them to be right ofc.

[GrantDawg]

Elon Musk has pledged $45 million dollars a month to a Trump super pac.

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[Dutch]

Trump is introduced at the convention to God Bless the USA with a bandage over his ear. I’ve never watched the opening day of a convention before but after another failed attempt to take him down, I was happy to see this. Dude is a tough SOB and I’m really looking forward to him being the President again.

https://youtu.be/dvnRJo5iytw?si=ALTlmSABxKb2NufZ

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Trump is introduced at the convention to God Bless the USA with a bandage over his ear. I’ve never watched the opening day of a convention before but after another failed attempt to take him down, I was happy to see this. Dude is a tough SOB and I’m really looking forward to him being the President again.

https://youtu.be/dvnRJo5iytw?si=ALTlmSABxKb2NufZ

If that is the standard why not elect Jon Jones? It honestly amazes me what some people look for in 2024 in a president.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dubb93

If that is the standard why not elect Jon Jones? It honestly amazes me what some people look for in 2024 in a president.

This the party that loved the fact that Reagan didn't wear a coat in Russia and mocked Biden for eating ice cream and riding a bicycle.

[JPhillips]

Can you imagine how the GOP would mock Biden if the events were switched?

[Dutch]

Ugh, forgot to mention, if you are a Biden type of guy, just pretend it’s Biden instead walking out there after almost being assassinated and waving to the crowd while Lee Greenwood is singing God Bless the USA so you can see it too.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Ugh, forgot to mention, if you are a Biden type of guy, just pretend it’s Biden instead walking out there after almost being assassinated and waving to the crowd while Lee Greenwood is singing God Bless the USA so you can see it too.

You are a complete fucking moron.

[dubb93]

I'm more a Colts, Pacers, Cubs, and Indiana University kind of guy. I don't need sports team mentality to creep into my politics. Neither guy should be running. But that honestly is one of the most asinine things I've read online in quite some time.

[RainMaker]

Kennedy/Nixon, Obama/McCain. Projecting a strong or more vibrant image matters in politics. People want their leaders to have charisma and be tough. I'm not saying Trump is by any means, but next to Biden there is a huge gap. A lot of voters are not deeply invested in politics and vote based on vibes.

[PilotMan]

Cult the personality is alive and well with exactly 1 candidate. His followers have been crystallized with the threat to his life. They will never forsake him. Many would lay down their lives for him, even if he took everything from them and ostracized them from their families. That feeling of commitment to him fills voids in their own lives. They love how he makes them feel important. How he gives their own existence meaning and purpose. He can quite literally do no wrong.

[dubb93]

Two things really struck me about Trump today.

1. Most of my Facebook friends posted a similar meme about how if you are celebrating the failed assassination attempt you should just unfriend them as you are their enemy now.

Which got me thinking about who exactly would be celebrating a failed assassination attempt and if maybe they should just all unfriend each other.

To think that anyone that doesn't support Trump would be celebrating the failed attempt on life is just asinine to me. Furthermore, to assume that people want political enemies to eat a bullet is also a little unsettling to me as well.

2. I was in southern Alabama this morning listening to FM radio cruising stations and someone was on there talking about how Trump has been sent by god and if you can't see it after god saved him from the assassination attempt then there is no hope for you.

I thought both of them kind of lead toward what Pilotman is talking about.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Cult the personality is alive and well with exactly 1 candidate. His followers have been crystallized with the threat to his life. They will never forsake him. Many would lay down their lives for him, even if he took everything from them and ostracized them from their families. That feeling of commitment to him fills voids in their own lives. They love how he makes them feel important. How he gives their own existence meaning and purpose. He can quite literally do no wrong.

Additionally, they feel he's punishing their enemies. And those that believe in a certain book tend to see the world as black and white, good and evil. Since they're, of course, on the side of good that means anyone that doesn't hold the same beliefs is evil and therefore the enemy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Izulde

VP picks rarely matter either way in terms of the final vote. That said, it's actually arguably the best pick he could make. 39 years old and with celebrity power due to Hillbilly Elegy (That it's regarded as problematic and inaccurate is irrelevant - the people who take issue with the memoir are never going to vote Trump anyway)

It's a selection that will probably sway some leery of Trump's age over to voting Republican.

I went back and forth on whether this is a good pick or not. I think the important thing to him is that Vance is a MAGA guy. The establishment wanted him to take a boring candidate like Burgum or Scott that donors like. But his supporters don't like those establishment guys (McConnell getting booed tonight as an example).

So he said "fuck it, give the base what they want". Seems like a rational thought process, but pretty rare in big time politics these days where donors call the shots. There are negatives with Vance like his extreme position on abortion and some skeletons in his closet. So there is definitely some risk there and he's the guy I'd want Trump to pick if I was Team Biden.


On the bright side, it is funny that Tim Scott had to pretend he had a girlfriend, Rubio had to turn into Reek, and Stefanik changed everything about her personality and they all got left in the dust. Just too much simp energy.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Trump is introduced at the convention to God Bless the USA with a bandage over his ear. I’ve never watched the opening day of a convention before but after another failed attempt to take him down, I was happy to see this. Dude is a tough SOB and I’m really looking forward to him being the President again.

I’m not looking forward to it but I’ll admit I have a morbid curiosity on how it’ll play out.

[Edward64]

Good idea, Joe.

Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will receive Secret Service protection as a result of the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump.

Department of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas said President Joe Biden had directed him to give RFK Jr. Secret Service protection.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Ugh, forgot to mention, if you are a Biden type of guy, just pretend it’s Biden instead walking out there after almost being assassinated and waving to the crowd while Lee Greenwood is singing God Bless the USA so you can see it too.

I'd actually vote against Biden in that case just for having Lee Greenwood on the stage.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by dubb93

1. Most of my Facebook friends posted a similar meme about how if you are celebrating the failed assassination attempt you should just unfriend them as you are their enemy now.

I'm not on facbook, but my "aunt" friended my wife on there. Apparently she posted that Biden is responsible and must be charged. I wanted to reply that she's responsible for my dad running out when i was 5 and never seeing me again, and also must be charged. (She's not, but if we can just make stuff up, it's more plausible than the Biden thing)

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Liberals and conservatives have very similar views on rural people.

I'd say it's generally the educated vs the uneducated, and many tend to lump all rural together as "uneducated." Of course, the same is done for city-dwellers*, immigrants, etc.

As for Lee Greenwood...I've never listened to all of that song of his (or anything else, I can't stand most country music), but what I have heard is the most cloying load of tripe I'd never want to listen to.

* There's a good portion of my family that should be considered "city" folk who are/were, frankly, a mess. What do/did they all have in common? Lack of education.

[JPhillips]

Nothing better summarizes the man than the fact that while he's gleefully bragging about taking a bullet for you he hasn't contacted anyone of the family of the guy who actually died.

[Ksyrup]

It was years - probably over 2 decades ago - that I can remember posting on this board about how much I hated that song. It's just such an over the top, jingoistic, "lowest common denominator" garbage song that it's always left a bad taste in mouth. And this was years and years before Trump and his association with Greenwood, so it's not some new guilt by association thing.

I think what it signalled for me even back then was that there is a certain type of person who is so over the top in the ways they like to openly show their patriotism that it feels like a cover for lots of other beliefs that are the exact opposite of patriotism. And over the years, it certainly feels like that has borne itself out. Culminating in Trump/Greenwood jointly hawking Patriotic Bibles. The same can be said for many, many people of cloth as well.

[Ksyrup]

On the subject of Vance, the reason I felt pretty confident he would be the choice came down to one issue - most of the other names being floated are career politicians who, even though they've adopted MAGA positions, are still more closely aligned to someone like Mike Pence than Trump. With Vance, if you put him in Pence's place 4 years ago, I think he does what Pence wouldn't do. And I think Rubio, Burgham, etc., all likely end up on the Pence side. But Trump feels pretty confident Vance will do what's necessary.

[JPhillips]

The Teamsters are going to fuck around and find out that the GOP will dismantle the laws that allow them to be a union. Crazy how they aren't willing to back Dems after the most pro-union admin since FDR.

[CrimsonFox]

I prefer Lee Hazelwood

[Lathum]

Overly patriotic people are weird. Our founders literally wanted us to question our government yet when the slightest criticism arises those among us who claim to be the most patriotic go nuts.

[GrantDawg]

There is a duality. You are not allowed to question "America," but you absolutely allowed to villify the government. Or at, least the parts they don't like. Police? "Back the Blue". IRS? Evil blood suckers. The Military? Without question. The FBI? Used to be venerated, but now are evil deep state.

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[Arles]

The VP pick makes sense to me. Trump found the person under 40 who most resembles himself. I don't think any additional analysis needs to be made. The fact that he is in a battleground state is just icing on the cake.

I wonder if this would have been the decision without the assassination attempt. I think there's a chance he either goes with a woman or a more strategic VP before that, but he feels invincible now and said "F*ck it - I'm going with this guy".

[Lathum]

Vances views on abortion are downright draconian, going so far as to claim rape was an inconvenience.

The dems need to hammer that home.

[Ghost Econ]

Word comes out that the shooter's home had Trump yard signs for months. Could be his grandma since he lived in the basement, but this whole thing is starting to give off Stan vibes.

[Arles]

Yeah, my wife had a good point. She was like "this kid appears to have been bullied a lot and maybe he tried to get back by going after the biggest bully out there". You never know what sets off somebody. But I think it's clear this wasn't some kind of staged attempt to help Trump in the polls. The whole thing was complete amateur hour (which also reflects poorly on the secret service C team they sent out to protect Trump).

[RainMaker]

I guess Virginia might be in play too which is unexpected. Kind of a shame for Democrats who have spent the last couple decades turning the state blue.




The splits in these states are just astronomical. I can't fathom we're going to have that many people split tickets even though maybe people think a Dem Senate would be a check on Trump. My guess is it narrows by either Biden doing better or him dragging down the Senate candidate.




[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The splits in these states are just astronomical. I can't fathom we're going to have that many people split tickets even though maybe people think a Dem Senate would be a check on Trump. My guess is it narrows by either Biden doing better or him dragging down the Senate candidate.


You do have to remember that some of those Republican candidates are pretty bad. I will give some credit to the handful of Republicans and independents that might be ok with Trump, but refuse to vote for some of the Trump wannabee nutjobs.

[cuervo72]

Numbers strike me as funny too. Of course, things like that are fodder for "STOLLEN!" if Trump loses.

(If anything, I would think that there would be more people like my wife -- I doubt she is going to vote for Trump, but I am also going to guess that she is going to stick with party and vote for Larry Hogan.)

[JPhillips]

Hard to believe there will end up being a 15 point spread in the AZ results, but which way it falls is up in the air.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, my wife had a good point. She was like "this kid appears to have been bullied a lot and maybe he tried to get back by going after the biggest bully out there".

I can invent all sorts of possible personal motives. Maybe he was trying to impress a girl or friend who was liberal. Maybe he was angry at his dad, who sounds like a conservative.

It seems like we'll never know at this point.

[Ksyrup]

We may never know, but I feel fairly confident we can rule out "Biden/DNC ordered the hit," which appears to be the prevailing theory on the right.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Hard to believe there will end up being a 15 point spread in the AZ results, but which way it falls is up in the air.

That +8 looks like it was in May. More recent polls have it closer. My guess is that both races are closer than what that was showing, but probably is leaning blue in the Senate and red in the Presidential.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We may never know, but I feel fairly confident we can rule out "Biden/DNC ordered the hit," which appears to be the prevailing theory on the right.

My favorite part of that dipshit narrative is when they cite him bieng in a Blckrock ad. Like this kid was a years long sleeper agent for the CIA, but also they purposely put him in an ad for Blackrock because....

Reminds me of the whole 'Paul is dead" theory, when a bunch of powerful industry heads got together to hide from the world that Paul McCartney was dead....and then they put clue after clue on album covers and in the lyrics because......

[Brian Swartz]

I don't really understand the need to know the motive. People are people, they do all kinds of things for various reasons, many of them illogical, many of them they don't even know the reason themselves and couldn't articulate it if they could.

Guy unfortunately made a bad and fatal life choice. Simple as, barring situations where there is a concrete reason to believe in a larger conspiracy.