Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[Greyroofoo]

i can not explain why bullet did not change his vote, you have to ask bullet that yourself

[Greyroofoo]

my suspicious people in no particular order:
fouts
chief rum
swaggs
mustang
st. cronin
kingfc

to my knowledge nobody is vouching for these people.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

ok, I guess i forgot that girls with cleavage in military dorms = gonnorea(sp?)

bullet knows that I visited him last night to reassure his faith in the emperor.

I have to visit people to work my ability

Two things to say about this.

One, grey met with GE in a much noted encounter on Night One, and AlanT, who also appears able to judge a player's loyalty to the emperor, said GE came up clean. AlanT has largely come off as clean, and GE did not say anything bad about grey's visit, so my inclination is to believe grey has this ability.

Two, both grey's and AlanT's abilities remind me of hoopsguy's ability to test the faith of a player a couple games ago, and that was a role related to his his public role, not a night action like a seer. While hoopsguy ended up being a baddie, the precedent is set for someone to be able to judge another's allegiances and loyalties through "heart to hearts", even when they are not seers. So what I am saying is I am not all that disturbed that we would have multiple seer-type roles in this game.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

my suspicious people in no particular order:
fouts
chief rum
swaggs
mustang
st. cronin
kingfc

to my knowledge nobody is vouching for these people.

That's a shame, considering the faith I showed in you. I assure you, I am completely loyal to the Emperor, and in a short time, will prove it to everyone.

[BrianD]

Damn, I wish I had been around tonight to save Bullet. If you look back at the earlier discussion today, I immediately unvoted for Bullet after he talked about someone visiting him during the night, and aggressively verifying his loyalty to the emperor. The reason I jumped off of him so quickly is because what Bullet said matched so closely with what happened to me the night before.

Grey came into my room on night two and wouldn't leave until he was convinced that I was loyal to the emperor. This was not a secret scan like King made, this was a full-on interrogation. This is also why I jumped off of Grey/GE after night 2. Grey's description of his actions each of the three nights has been verified by GE, me. and Bullet. GE was cleared by Alan, and Bullet has been cleared by his death. I welcome Alan to view me tonight if he wants to, but there should be so many clues available that he shouldn't need to.

At this point, I 100% trust that Grey, GE, Alan, and Saldana, and twothree are not Chaos. There could be some mutants mixed in there though.

Untrusted are Mustang, Fouts, Chief Rum, st.cronin, kingfc22, swaggs. There are at least 2 Chaos in there and possibly some mutants.

The reveal about me being able to kill someone during my death is correct. I have no idea how I was able to fend off last night's attack since there is nothing spelled out in my role saying that I can do that. I am a fierce warrior, but there was nothing about halting an attack. If the Chaos do come after me tonight, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll take one of them with me when I go.

[BrianD]

dola,

With everything that went on today, I hope Alan can understand why I asked him to change his vote back when he changed to Bullet. I could have outted Grey and his nightly visits, but I expected Grey to out himself if Bullet or I really got into trouble. I wanted to respect his secret as long as he wanted to keep it. True to my hopes, he outted himself when things got hairy, but I think Alan was already gone before he could change his vote.

[Abe Sargent]

*waves*


EDITEDITEDIT: Normally I wouldn't edit a post in WW, but this is my 4,500th post, and I wanted to point that out. Yay

[BrianD]

double dola,

It might be helpful for our three seers to talk among themselves and come up with a plan for the night's viewing. There aren't that many still outside the circle of trust, and you guys could each pick a different person and be almost assured of finding either a mutant or a Chaos member.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

*waves*

You broke my double dola.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Damn, I wish I had been around tonight to save Bullet. If you look back at the earlier discussion today, I immediately unvoted for Bullet after he talked about someone visiting him during the night, and aggressively verifying his loyalty to the emperor. The reason I jumped off of him so quickly is because what Bullet said matched so closely with what happened to me the night before.

Grey came into my room on night two and wouldn't leave until he was convinced that I was loyal to the emperor. This was not a secret scan like King made, this was a full-on interrogation. This is also why I jumped off of Grey/GE after night 2. Grey's description of his actions each of the three nights has been verified by GE, me. and Bullet. GE was cleared by Alan, and Bullet has been cleared by his death. I welcome Alan to view me tonight if he wants to, but there should be so many clues available that he shouldn't need to.

At this point, I 100% trust that Grey, GE, Alan, and Saldana, and twothree are not Chaos. There could be some mutants mixed in there though.

Untrusted are Mustang, Fouts, Chief Rum, st.cronin, kingfc22, swaggs. There are at least 2 Chaos in there and possibly some mutants.

The reveal about me being able to kill someone during my death is correct. I have no idea how I was able to fend off last night's attack since there is nothing spelled out in my role saying that I can do that. I am a fierce warrior, but there was nothing about halting an attack. If the Chaos do come after me tonight, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I'll take one of them with me when I go.

I wish you were around, too. You would have changed my mind. How do you know that Grey isn't a bad guy testing you?

I assure you I am a floundering villager. I will leave it up to the cleared guys to decide who to lynch.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by BrianD

You broke my double dola.

<==== Still having an impact on the game

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I wish you were around, too. You would have changed my mind. How do you know that Grey isn't a bad guy testing you?

I assure you I am a floundering villager. I will leave it up to the cleared guys to decide who to lynch.

The wording of our encounter convinced me. He was pretty extreme in making sure that I really am loyal to the emperor. If he turns out to be bad, it would be one hell of a misleading encounter. I was really left with the fealing that I would have been in deep stuff if I hadn't been loyal to the emperor. The fact that Bullet got the same visit, talked about the same experience and came out of it alive told me that Bullet really was loyal to the emperor...as has been verified through his death. I can't say that Grey isn't a mutant, but I am convinced that he isn't Chaos. I'm also convinced that GE isn't chaos or Grey wouldn't be speaking for him.

[GoldenEagle]

Wow, alot went down after I left.

[BrianD]

I really wish I had strong lynching feelings towards anyone. This game has been all about process of elimination. I feel like we have eliminated a bunch of people as being some kind of human, but there are still too many unknowns. I'm hoping we get some good info next morning.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

The wording of our encounter convinced me. He was pretty extreme in making sure that I really am loyal to the emperor. If he turns out to be bad, it would be one hell of a misleading encounter. I was really left with the fealing that I would have been in deep stuff if I hadn't been loyal to the emperor. The fact that Bullet got the same visit, talked about the same experience and came out of it alive told me that Bullet really was loyal to the emperor...as has been verified through his death. I can't say that Grey isn't a mutant, but I am convinced that he isn't Chaos. I'm also convinced that GE isn't chaos or Grey wouldn't be speaking for him.

Ok. Kinda weird that we have 3 seers (twothree, grey, alan) running around. Your story sounds good, but you have been known to fool people before.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Ok. Kinda weird that we have 3 seers (twothree, grey, alan) running around. Your story sounds good, but you have been known to fool people before.

I agree that it is weird, but the evidence seems pretty strong. Grey said Bullet was good, and he was right. Twothree said Anxiety was abnormal, and he was right. Alan said path was loyal to the emperor and he was right.

It is possible that twothree gave up a fellow chaos member to make himself trustworthy, but I don't think that is the case.

Alan may have been trying to shield the mutant Path, but it seems like his 'discussions' were verified by enough people that I trust his non-chaos sensing at the least. At this point, I'm unhappy with myself for arguing against having Alan and st.cronin put in the cells together.

There are just too many stories that are matching up. It is possible that I am the one being fooled, but I think we really do have 3 seers.

[twothree]

Wow. A very interesting day. I am glad we have time to think everything through, including taking a day or so to just step away from all of this insanity. Echoing the statements of others, nice game tanglewood.

One of the things about bulletsponge's death from my point of view is that everything he wrote over the last four day can now probably be considered true. And, I hope he was able to leave behind some helpful information when I go back and reread his posts.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by saldana

WTF is your malfunction....i have had it with your threats and demands to reveal my role...why dont i just paint a fucking target on my back that says, please kill me...if you are gonna duke me, duke me, i have had it with you and think i would rather die than reveal my role to you.

no villager would be demanding as many reveals as you want...why dont we all just reveal and let the wolves pick between the vaulable players that are left.
unvote grey
vote fouts

Catching up, but I'm a villager and I 100% agree with Fouts logic. There are way too many players claiming to be villagers but playing shady. Saldana's one of them. I'm not saying I think he's bad, but I think the Chaos are loving it. Twothree is the only good guy that has actually done anything to help us. EVerybody else is pointing is in the wrong direction.

[st.cronin]

I am 100% loyal to the emperor. The reason nobody has cleared me is because I have BEEN IN JAIL EVERY NIGHT! I don't think my role is all that important - if I had to guess the mechanic, after I die, there are x number of days left for us to find the chaos.

I think Chief Rum needs to be investigated thoroughly.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Twothree is the only good guy that has actually done anything to help us. EVerybody else is pointing is in the wrong direction.

That statement surprises me....but it probably shouldn't.

[st.cronin]

doladola

I encourage all seers and bodyguards to protect/view me tonight. I assume at least one of these seers is bad - it might be interesting to do a little test, see if the bad guys are willing to finger me as bad in order to starve the emperor.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That statement surprises me....but it probably shouldn't.

No, it shouldn't surprise you. Saldana was most vocal in lynching Realdeal and Blade, and attempted to discredit Anxiety's accusers. Maybe he's loyal, maybe he's bad - but he's pointing us in the wrong direction. AlanT has been right with Saldana. Probably he's loyal, too, but who knows. And GE and grey have done nothing but act mysterious. It's possible that all of these "cleared/seer" players are good - it's also possible that one of them is bad.

[st.cronin]

more dola

I voted for Anxiety on day 1, and argued against RealDeal. I pointed out that path was acting fishy - which nobody else wanted to believe. I've accused both known mutants and known Chaos. I am 100% loyal to the emperor.

[Alan T]

I'm not sure if Stcronin is just feeling pressured or just confused about people's roles or what, but he came off really wolfish this morning to me. Wanting every seer to scan you and then saying ahead of time that you wouldn't be suprised if one seer said you were bad just to set you up... C'mon...

I'm not sure who I am scanning yet, there is a list of 7 that I am curious about scanning and haven't decided yet. I highly suspect it won't matter for me, I would be suprised if i am not the night target tonight.

As for putting together a circle of trust, I tried to put together what I think I understand who's vouching for who. I would call this the non-chaos circle of trust. I highly suspect there are mutants in this circle, but would be suprised if there were any chaos. (Only possibility I can think of is unlucky convert of someone already scanned)



There are both 2 way trusts and 1 way trusts on that list. I also am starting to think that its going to end up harder trying to track down all of the mutants than the chaos actually. I am thinking there are 2 or at most 3 if conversion chaos left.

I've also been trying to play in my mind the whole three seer thing. I am pretty sure I know what you are up to Grey, but I also am pretty sure you are not chaos. I also don't know of any possible way to test my theory right now without your death though, which I'm not sure is a good thing right now for the human non-mutants.

I've been back and forth in my mind about twothree.. I had almost talked myself into thinking twothree was actually good and our only way of tracking down mutants other than luck and voting patterns. That was until Stcronin's posts which then made me go back to my original thinking that twothree might have been a chaos who setup Anxiety to build trust... Thats something else I'm not sure I want to pursue just yet either...

I think right now the best people to look at are:

St.cronin
Mustang
chiefrum
kingfc22
swaggs
fouts

in that order... at least till we can rule out folks and narrow it down some.

If anyone has any idea of how to narrow down mutants, I'm all ears. Only thing I could think of so far is each time Greyfooroo has come up as a lynch candidate, who was for lynching him I'm guessing are not mutants. (But could be wrong there too!)

Anyways, I'm pretty sure I'll be dead but if not I'll put in a scan on someone, just not sure who yet. This game has been crazy!

[st.cronin]

Well, if you think all the people that have claimed to be seers are 100% loyal to the emperor, I can't agree with that. What I am anticipating at some point is a showdown - one seer comes forward and says this person is a wolf, and another says "whoa, he's clean." The village needs to be prepared for that.

[st.cronin]

dola

my circle of trust: twothree, and that's it

My #1 suspect, by a hair, is ChiefRum, because of the way he evaded the noose yesterday

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, if you think all the people that have claimed to be seers are 100% loyal to the emperor, I can't agree with that. What I am anticipating at some point is a showdown - one seer comes forward and says this person is a wolf, and another says "whoa, he's clean." The village needs to be prepared for that.

I already hinted at what I think Grey is. I have no idea on twothree. We'll see what he comes up with over the next few days.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I already hinted at what I think Grey is. I have no idea on twothree. We'll see what he comes up with over the next few days.

Twothree is probably neck and neck with me as far as wolf targets. The thing that saldana and you are not getting is that in a game like this, the sooner the village lays all their cards on the table, the easier the game is to win. I have no idea if Fouts is clean or not, but he's been saying the same thing, and I absolutely agree with him.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Twothree is probably neck and neck with me as far as wolf targets. The thing that saldana and you are not getting is that in a game like this, the sooner the village lays all their cards on the table, the easier the game is to win. I have no idea if Fouts is clean or not, but he's been saying the same thing, and I absolutely agree with him.

I am confused. I thought I have been completely open. In fact I thought I had given the most information about what my entire role is, who my entire circle of trust is and pretty much tried to lay down a path of us not lynching further villagers if possible. If people had listened yetserday to greyfooroo when he said several times to not lynch bullet, then we wouldnt have lynched him then either.

You keep coming off sounding like a wolf to me. There isnt anything more I can share, you saying I am hiding something is just silly.

[Alan T]

Dola in fact, I know very little about your role or anything about you St.cronin other than you "Feed" the emperor. I would have to say I have provided at least 30 times more information than you this game. So to call me out as not sharing information is pretty shortsighted.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am confused. I thought I have been completely open. In fact I thought I had given the most information about what my entire role is, who my entire circle of trust is and pretty much tried to lay down a path of us not lynching further villagers if possible. If people had listened yetserday to greyfooroo when he said several times to not lynch bullet, then we wouldnt have lynched him then either.

You keep coming off sounding like a wolf to me. There isnt anything more I can share, you saying I am hiding something is just silly.

You have consistently defended saldana and GE, who have played incredibly shady games. I don't mean defended them in terms of "they are good" but defended their strategy, which has been useless. You (or one of the ones you have cleared, I forget) have also attacked me and Fouts for insisting that players share information, instead of playing secretly. The wolf we got was the result of a player laying his cards on the table - we need MORE of that, not LESS. And if you are not with me attacking the players who are hiding information that can help the village, then I am suspicious of YOU.

[st.cronin]

dola

kingfc described my role perfectly, I have no other information about anybody.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

You have consistently defended saldana and GE, who have played incredibly shady games. I don't mean defended them in terms of "they are good" but defended their strategy, which has been useless. You (or one of the ones you have cleared, I forget) have also attacked me and Fouts for insisting that players share information, instead of playing secretly. The wolf we got was the result of a player laying his cards on the table - we need MORE of that, not LESS. And if you are not with me attacking the players who are hiding information that can help the village, then I am suspicious of YOU.

You really need to get your players straight when accusing me of stuff.

I've constantly asked GE and Grey for more information. I also said I am curious to hear from Saldana about what the deal with Blade was. You are not even right about what i have and have not done. THis smells really alot like a wolf to me. Making up things about me to try to group me in a certain category sure isnt going to help us win.

The only thing I have defended GE and Saldana about is saying that I knew they were not chaos and thus not a good vote choice right now. Stop making up things about me and maybe be a little bit more open about yourself instead.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The only thing I have defended GE and Saldana about is saying that I knew they were not chaos and thus not a good vote choice right now. Stop making up things about me and maybe be a little bit more open about yourself instead.

Wasn't it you that said Fouts was suspicious for asking for information? It's possible I have you mixed up with somebody else, but right now it's YOU who is coming after ME. And I have been completely open. I have been locked up EVERY NIGHT. I have no night time role, and even if I had, I have had no chance to use it. My role is that I feed the emperor.

Again, you're the one who has been coming hard at ME. I named both Anxiety and path as suspicious - one a mutant, the other chaos. But go ahead and lynch me, or assasinate me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Wasn't it you that said Fouts was suspicious for asking for information? It's possible I have you mixed up with somebody else, but right now it's YOU who is coming after ME. And I have been completely open. I have been locked up EVERY NIGHT. I have no night time role, and even if I had, I have had no chance to use it. My role is that I feed the emperor.

Again, you're the one who has been coming hard at ME. I named both Anxiety and path as suspicious - one a mutant, the other chaos. But go ahead and lynch me, or assasinate me.

I asked questions of Fouts yesterday, but I have pretty much said several times that Fouts is my most trusted person of people who havent been "cleared" Just his actions feel to me that he is good.

You clearly have me confused with someone else I think, or are trying to get people riled up against a seer. Not sure which.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I asked questions of Fouts yesterday, but I have pretty much said several times that Fouts is my most trusted person of people who havent been "cleared" Just his actions feel to me that he is good.

You clearly have me confused with someone else I think, or are trying to get people riled up against a seer. Not sure which.

All I'm trying to do is defend myself, because lynching me could result in an instant Chaos victory, and it would be completely without merit.

[Alan T]

Well I guess the good news for me is if you are being truthful, the chaos would be foolish to not kill you. Which means I get to stay alive another day.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well I guess the good news for me is if you are being truthful, the chaos would be foolish to not kill you. Which means I get to stay alive another day.

I think there are probably 4 or 5 better targets than you. Twothree, whichever of the UTR folks are clean, possibly Saldana or GE (because one of them is probably mutant).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think there are probably 4 or 5 better targets than you. Twothree, whichever of the UTR folks are clean, possibly Saldana or GE (because one of them is probably mutant).

Dunno, maybe they will leave me around to make people such as yourself (if you are clean) doubt my story. I'm not complaining, I would like to live the entire game

[Greyroofoo]

What we really need to do is decide who to scan.

With Alan T, twothree, and I we should have 3 potential scans

[Fouts]

If St. Cronin's role is as he says it is, I am glad we lynched bullet. He was useless.

[Greyroofoo]

you're glad we lynched a good guy!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

you're glad we lynched a good guy!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

Yes, take it out of context and overact a bit. Your drama is getting old.

If I had to choose between an assassin who does nothing or the guy who feeds the emperor, I choose to kill the assassin.

[Greyroofoo]

i dunno if this is worth anything to anyone but looking back at past votes, path the mutant voted for me on day 2. I hope this helps ease any concerns I am a mutant. I understand if it doesn't though.

[Chief Rum]

AlanT started off suspicious with his announements, and has largely come out clean. Other seers (or death) have in fact confirmed what he says.

So attacking him now seems extremely suspicious to me, st. cronin. You now join Fouts, who basically handed bullet over to be exectued and now doesn't have any remorse about it, as my #1 suspects.

Very wolfish behavior, and what a perfect place to hide as a Chaos, too, feeding the Emperor and using it to get yourself protected every night. Well, path isn't around to do that anymore. Will you die tomorrow night, st. cronin? And if Chaos doesn't choose to go after the lynch pin of the care for the Emperor, now in the open, that will be an eye-opener to me. As good as a confirmation, IMO.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

AlanT started off suspicious with his announements, and has largely come out clean. Other seers (or death) have in fact confirmed what he says.

So attacking him now seems extremely suspicious to me, st. cronin. You now join Fouts, who basically handed bullet over to be exectued and now doesn't have any remorse about it, as my #1 suspects.

Very wolfish behavior, and what a perfect place to hide as a Chaos, too, feeding the Emperor and using it to get yourself protected every night. Well, path isn't around to do that anymore. Will you die tomorrow night, st. cronin? And if Chaos doesn't choose to go after the lynch pin of the care for the Emperor, now in the open, that will be an eye-opener to me. As good as a confirmation, IMO.

I am attacking YOU more than Alan. See my suspicion list above - everybody but twothree, with you a notch higher than everybody else.

And as for me and path being "buddies" - on day 1 he asked for input on who he should Jail, and people named ME. If we were truly "buddies" wouldn't he have put himself in there with me? No, because he was afraid I might somehow find out he was a mutant. I brought all this up before he was killed, you might recall, and pointed out that it made him seem a little fishy to me.

I don't know what the Chaos strategy tonight will be - I think obviously I'm a prime target. But twothree is probably just as prime a target. And considering that there may be another "bodyguard" type role out there, they may avoid both of us and target somebody who is clean and UTR, like possibly Fouts or Mustang (assuming they are clean).

[Fouts]

CR and Grey are very suspicious after their vote manuevering last night. They act like they were saving bullet, when in fact, they were saving CR.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

What we really need to do is decide who to scan.

With Alan T, twothree, and I we should have 3 potential scans

Agreed, but don't forget Kingfc22. He seems to only be able to figure out roles and not loyalties, but maybe he'll eventually get a hit on a role which ties a player to a faction. I don't think he is as helpful as the seers, but he should have some uses.

I find it a bit funny to hear Bullet called useless. He hadn't gone on any assassination attempts yet, but he also hadn't had any strong suspects. Now that the untrusted list is getting shorter, he could have been very valuable.

I personally don't believe that the Chaos would win if st.cronin was killed. Their victory condition was pretty clear, get a 1:1 ratio. Having the game hinge on one person seems like very tough odds for the humans. Again, not saying that st.cronin needs to be killed, but scanned would probably be good.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

CR and Grey are very suspicious after their vote manuevering last night. They act like they were saving bullet, when in fact, they were saving CR.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by BrianD

I personally don't believe that the Chaos would win if st.cronin was killed. Their victory condition was pretty clear, get a 1:1 ratio. Having the game hinge on one person seems like very tough odds for the humans. Again, not saying that st.cronin needs to be killed, but scanned would probably be good.

Tanglewood said on day 1 that if the Emperor dies, Chaos wins. Now, whether the emperor dies if I can no longer feed him is an open question.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

The goal of Chaos at all times during the game is to destroy the Emperor. If the Emperor dies the Imperium (the 'good' guys) instantaneously lose.

dola, so I'm guessing st. cronin will be the wolves target tonight. Should we still scan st. cronin if its likely he'll be killed?