Maximum Football???

[albionmoonlight]

Well, let's play detective. The game was ready to go before career play was added. So we can deduce as a matter of pure logic that the moving first down line is a function of career play. No other reason makes sense. So, what could that function of career play be? Well, we know that it can't be a bug because this game has undergone more beta testing than any game in the history of computers. So it must be a purposeful feature related to career play. Let us also deduce (I can't imagine that there would be much objection to this point) that none of the graphics in this game are eye candy. Everything must serve a purpose--nothing less would deserve to be called the Total Football Experience.

I draw, then, gentlemen, your attention to the beer tent. [/Gasps come from audience.] Yes, the beer tent. What does a beer tent serve? That's right--BEER. And not just any beer, but that really good, strong CANADIAN BEER. [/Knowing mumbling from the audience.] Beer that will get you intoxicated. Now, in most stadiums, the beer is sold, not on the field where none of the fans are allowed to go, but in the stands themselves.

This beer tent, however, as you can clearly see, is on the field! Who would put a beer tent on the freakin' field where no one can buy the beer? [/questioning mummers] I'll tell you who. It's the opposing coach! He's getting the guys holding the chains drunk during the games!

This is the answer that ties everything together. We all wondered what career play was since it did not contain a draft, recruiting, or financial system. We thought that it was just a joke. It is no joke, my friends; it is deadly serious. This game is part RPG. The career mode pits you against the machinations of insane coaches who will do anything to win--including using high alcohol content beer to their advantage. I submit to you that part of career play involves petitioning the league to not let the guys holding the chains go to the beer tent during the games. See, what we have been laughing off is actually just Matrix being deeper than you can even imagine. The Beer Tent is Relevant! Don't you get it?! Drunken chain gangs? Amazing. I'd like to see Madden do that.

_______________________________________


Seriously, though. At what point, if you are Matrix Games/Wintervalley, do you just say that you are taking the game off-line for 6 months, hire some real, committed beta-testers, and fix the bugs under the hood?

This game looks nowhere near ready to go. People keep finding critical mistakes in the screen shots and movies that are released to the public. There is a serious risk of trademark infringement suits if the game is released in this form. Etc., etc., etc. There will be a lot (more) egg on people's faces if this game is released in the next few days.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Dude, I can't wait for that DEMO!

Dude, you're gettin' a DEMO!!!

[Dutch]

The fans can't buy beer from the beer tent? What a rip-off.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I'm sorry, but you actually fail, since you assume

Maximum Flexibilty is the same as Maximim + Flexibility.

The presence of 2 variables next to each other connotates multiplication, not addition. Just as xy means x multiplied by y, Maximum Flexibility means Maximum times Flexibility.

So we really have

Maximum Flexibility = Maximum-Football
(Maximum) x (Flexibility) = (Maximum) - (Football)

cartman = D+

Even better. So instead of a linear regression of Football as Flexibility increases, there is a logrithmic decrease of Football as Flexibility increases.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Seriously, though. At what point, if you are Matrix Games/Wintervalley, do you just say that you are taking the game off-line for 6 months, hire some real, committed beta-testers, and fix the bugs under the hood?

Better question IMO: If you are Matrix Games, at what point do you just cut your losses on this? Hopefully they're at least smart enough not to have spent anything substantial to date on something that looks better left as vaporware.

I'd call spending money hiring real, honest-to-goodness qualified non-fanboy beta testers as throwing money down a dry hole, because there's little chance in my mind (having seen the screenshots) that this product can sell enough copies to justify the expenditure. And releasing it without doing so might ultimately carry a cost even higher.

Their second-best call would be to walk away now.
Their best call would be to run away now.

[KWhit]

Seriously, has there been a single video, screenshot, or "dynasty" of the gameplay that has not identified a problem in the game?

And we're not talking nit-picky stuff here. We're talking about moving 1st down markers, teleporting tacklers, players throwing for 450 yds, rushing for over 300 yds!

And you would think that Matrix would be posting the absolute BEST videos and screenshots that they could, right? And yet we've picked up on numerous game issues from these. Did anyone test this game?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Seriously, though. At what point, if you are Matrix Games/Wintervalley, do you just say that you are taking the game off-line for 6 months, hire some real, committed beta-testers, and fix the bugs under the hood?

This game looks nowhere near ready to go. People keep finding critical mistakes in the screen shots and movies that are released to the public. There is a serious risk of trademark infringement suits if the game is released in this form. Etc., etc., etc. There will be a lot (more) egg on people's faces if this game is released in the next few days.

exactly. i think at this point Matrix needs to intervene, delay the game indefinitely and go the Solecismic route saying "it'll be released when it's ready". you just can't continually make official release dates and delay them for all of infinity. that is no way to run a company. Matrix really needs to put a gag order on the developer and his wife and say "no official announcements regarding the game will be made unless it's first ran by us".

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Did anyone test this game?

...

Originally Posted by John Galt

My theory is that the testers are blind monkeys who throw their feces at their computers. But, like evolution, it's just a theory. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Oilers9911]

I know i'm backing a losing horse in this race but I for one hope they make a decent game out of this, if for no other reason that to shove it up the ass of everyone here who has jumped on the bandwagon of bashing the efforts of the developer, as messed up as they may be.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Seriously, has there been a single video, screenshot, or "dynasty" of the gameplay that has not identified a problem in the game?

And we're not talking nit-picky stuff here. We're talking about moving 1st down markers, teleporting tacklers, players throwing for 450 yds, rushing for over 300 yds!

And you would think that Matrix would be posting the absolute BEST videos and screenshots that they could, right? And yet we've picked up on numerous game issues from these. Did anyone test this game?

Screw testing the game, the least they could do is test the screenshots and videos.

I didn't have that big of a problem with their hollier than thou attitude towards text sims at first, but the obvious constant lying about not only the release date (yeah it happens) but saying something is gold and only needs a video added... then have your lead tester talking about receiving builds 2 and 3 times a week when the game was gold 2 weeks ago?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I know i'm backing a losing horse in this race but I for one hope they make a decent game out of this, if for no other reason that to shove it up the ass of everyone here who has jumped on the bandwagon of bashing the efforts of the developer, as messed up as they may be.

You reep what you sow...

Seriously, even Stevie Wonder could see that this team has brought this on themselves.

That being said, as others have stated, if this game surprises us and turns out to be something fantastic and worth attention, we'll all go buy it eventually.

I for one (and many others too I bet) hope it does suprise us, but it just doesn't seem likely..

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by wade moore

You reep what you sow...

Seriously, even Stevie Wonder could see that this team has brought this on themselves.

That being said, as others have stated, if this game surprises us and turns out to be something fantastic and worth attention, we'll all go buy it eventually.

I for one (and many others too I bet) hope it does suprise us, but it just doesn't seem likely..

Yes you reap what you sow but I mean really... This thread is overkill to the nth degree.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Holy crap. They have released 2 videos of the gameplay, a writeup by Eric of 2 games that he played, and a small handful of screenshots.

And what have we learned from this very small amount of data?

1) The first down calculations are broken.
2) The game engine will not produce anything close to authentic results out of the box.
3) MF likes to steal logos from colleges and USFL teams.
4) David apparently doesn't know how to spell his own name.

There's more, but at this point it just feels like piling on.

It's quite funny in a sad, pathetic sort of way. I think I could have done a better job of beta testing just by looking at screenshots and the videos...

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by cartman

Even better. So instead of a linear regression of Football as Flexibility increases, there is a logrithmic decrease of Football as Flexibility increases.

Actually, the football decreases if either flexibility or maximum-ness increases.

Football = -Maximum(Flexibility+1)

It already starts out negative if Max and Flex are positive. Which means anything they do will only make it worse.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Yes you reap what you sow but I mean really... This thread is overkill to the nth degree.

Hey, at least most of us have kept the real harsh, in-depth criticisms off of the max-football pages. If there was a 32 page masterpiece over there I'd see it a little more.. but in reality we're just having a little fun over here on FOFC and bringing up some honest to goodness legit questions that would cause threads to be locked over there.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Yes you reap what you sow but I mean really... This thread is overkill to the nth degree.

I would quote the comment from Dutch(?) that SkyDog usually quotes to these kinds of comments about us being too harsh, but honestly I'm too lazy to look it up.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Actually, the football decreases if either flexibility or maximum-ness increases.

Football = -Maximum(Flexibility+1)

It already starts out negative if Max and Flex are positive. Which means anything they do will only make it worse.

I'm glad I'm home sick today, otherwise I would have to exaplain to my coworkers why I was laughing uncontrollable for about five minutes.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by Bee

I would quote the comment from Dutch(?) that SkyDog usually quotes to these kinds of comments about us being too harsh, but honestly I'm too lazy to look it up.

I actually didn't mention being too harsh. I think (some) of the concerns brought up here are very valid. Its just the fact bthat it has gone on for what, 37 pages now? And Skydog...well..this is the same guy who implied that I am defending the developer because I am also Canadian. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Daivd

2. Okay, my ignorance about US College is showing here so forgive me. I thought Georgia Tech used a bull dog logo. When my artest presented these graphics to me I had no reason to suspect it was close to any other logo. The bee, although modified, is probably too close for use so we'll pull that out. Thanks for making us aware of that.

This made me LOL.

[rkmsuf]

When my artest presented these graphics to me I had no reason to suspect it was close to any other logo

Ron Artest is an artist?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bee

This made me LOL.

What a WORLD-class nimrod that guy is.

[cartman]

Well, when 12 of the Canadian teams use the Rough Rider mascot, it can be hard to try and keep track of a bunch of different mascots, if you aren't used to it.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

What a WORLD-class nimrod that guy is.

I'll admit that it was pretty ignorant of him, but I give him credit for coming right out and saying he didn't know and that seeing the GT Bee that he believes it is too similar. So I'll give him that much credit, that it may have been due to ignorance of NCAA logos rather than the trying to copy someone's logo.

But what does this mean for the box art?!

[KWhit]

So the graphical designer that they hired just pilfered existing logos and submitted them as his (or her) own work? That's fantastic!

[Bonegavel]

Ablert Einstein's theory of Maximumosity:

e=mf²

e = release date in UNIX time
mf = speed of bullshit

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I actually didn't mention being too harsh. I think (some) of the concerns brought up here are very valid. Its just the fact bthat it has gone on for what, 37 pages now? And Skydog...well..this is the same guy who implied that I am defending the developer because I am also Canadian. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.

Sorry, thought your use of overkill was in regards to us being too harsh not about the thread length. The board is very active, so something like this generates a lot of opinions, comments, limmericks, etc. If you want something less active, you can always check out the Max Football boards.

As far as the quote, you'll notice I said it was from Dutch not SkyDog (SkyDog just quotes him). Of course, you probably would have the same opinion of Dutch as you do SkyDog.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I actually didn't mention being too harsh. I think (some) of the concerns brought up here are very valid. Its just the fact bthat it has gone on for what, 37 pages now? And Skydog...well..this is the same guy who implied that I am defending the developer because I am also Canadian. So I take what he says with a grain of salt.

Wait until it gets to 50 pages. I think the best is still to come.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Did anyone test this game?

No one knows. Every time someone asks that questions over on the MFer boards, Erik loses his mind and locks the thread.

[st.cronin]

Another day, another two pages (before lunch). This is the Golden Age of FOFC.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Bee

Looking over the Matrix boards this morning, I see that playoffs are handled manually? The more I hear, the more I think this isn't actually a game but just a framework for people to develop mods. Sadly, based on the screenshots, videos and things that have been pointed out (like the down and yardage errors!)...it looks like the framework is incredibly weak.

At first, I felt sorry for Matrix...now I feel sorry for people who buy this game expecting a $40 or $50 game.

Thanks to me! Anyone wanna join my losers league? Or maybe we can just play a few games in the regular season, then decide who gets in the playoffs based on a coin flip. If we're lucky, we can decide who WINS the plaoyffs based on a coin flip, too.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

No one knows. Every time someone asks that questions over on the MFer boards, Erik loses his mind and locks the thread.

If that pattern continues, it is going to effect my opinion of Matrix and make me less likely to buy future games from them.

[kcchief19]

I'm not even remotely interested in George Tech, but I have to get this off my chest.

It's a friggin' yellowjacket not a friggin' bee.

Thank you.

[Toddzilla]

Just wondering, will there be a downloadable demo for this game?

Originally Posted by Erik
Not initially, simply because all development time is focused on the release, but I expect we may release a demo a couple of months after release.

Yay! When is a few months after Never?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Yay! When is a few months after Never?

Oo oo! According to the Poll, it's when the trouts take over...

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Yay! When is a few months after Never?

Neverember?

Ok, that's bad but I never said I was a comic.

[Passacaglia]

My bet is that they way they fix this first-down problem is with MORE CUSTOMIZATION! After each play, you'll simply tell the game how many yards they have to go, what down it is, maybe you can even "correct" the game to let it know how many yards were actually gained on the last play!

It's like on Seinfeld, when Kramer was running Moviephone: "Why don't you just tell me what movie you'd like to see?"

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Thanks to me! Anyone wanna join my losers league? Or maybe we can just play a few games in the regular season, then decide who gets in the playoffs based on a coin flip. If we're lucky, we can decide who WINS the plaoyffs based on a coin flip, too.

Some said you're starting a polish league... that one I'm in!

[rkmsuf]

I heard Maximum Football got a 3 on the Wonderlic.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I heard Maximum Football got a 3 on the Wonderlic.

I thought you got a 6 by just knowing how to spell your name, DAIVD is how you spell it right..????

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by KWhit

So the graphical designer that they hired just pilfered existing logos and submitted them as his (or her) own work? That's fantastic!

I have a feeling Daivd Winter did all of the graphics himself, which would explain why they are so terrible.

[cthomer5000]

RE: Policy on Licensed Uniforms/Leagues - 2/27/2006 5:32:02 PM

David Winter Matrix Elite Guard Posts: 566 Joined: 11/23/2004 From: Vancouver, BC Status: online

A few things in this thread that need to be addressed so I'll try to do them all in one post. 1. Midwave. Yes, you've emailed me about the indoor league you have permission to do artwork for. I am sure if you can get Matrix and myself a copy of the agreement (a signed letter would be best) then I'm sure we can accomodate you putting those logos on the board. As long as we're satisfied permission has been granted. 2. Okay, my ignorance about US College is showing here so forgive me. I thought Georgia Tech used a bull dog logo. When my artist presented these graphics to me I had no reason to suspect it was close to any other logo. The bee, although modified, is probably too close for use so we'll pull that out. Thanks for making us aware of that. 3. Shaggyra: Yes, this wasn't noticed until now. I certainly didn't at anyrate. 4. Toddzilla: I was asking him to explain more clearly his point about George Tech. No reference to logos was made, no reference to team names was made. No reference to anything other than a school was made. Hence my comment. < Message edited by David Winter -- 2/27/2006 7:05:46 PM > (in reply to Toddzilla

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

My bet is that they way they fix this first-down problem is with MORE CUSTOMIZATION! After each play, you'll simply tell the game how many yards they have to go, what down it is, maybe you can even "correct" the game to let it know how many yards were actually gained on the last play!

You know, I don't know how far that might be from reality.

[cthomer5000]

oops, already beaten to the punch on that.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I have a feeling Daivd Winter did all of the graphics himself, which would explain why they are so terrible.

I doubt it. I'm an engineer, I work with engineers, and I only WISH my pathetic artwork attempts looked that good. I mean, have you SEEN my utilities? One of these days someone is finally going to take pity on me and create some icons for them...

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by DAIVD

- I've done development testing and a smoke test to ensure the game runs but leave the unbiast testing to the testers. 'Claimed fixed' just means I think I fixed it, it doesn't mean it is.

I give to you the reason this game, if it ever comes out, is going to be more bug ridden than FPS 99. People that write code like that deserve to be punched in the face.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I doubt it. I'm an engineer, I work with engineers, and I only WISH my pathetic artwork attempts looked that good. I mean, have you SEEN my utilities? One of these days someone is finally going to take pity on me and create some icons for them...

Maybe you need to steal someone else's work and change the color and then call it your own.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I doubt it. I'm an engineer, I work with engineers, and I only WISH my pathetic artwork attempts looked that good. I mean, have you SEEN my utilities? One of these days someone is finally going to take pity on me and create some icons for them...

Well, he had to be doing SOMETHING for the past 5 years. (If that "game" is 5 years worth of just programming.....damn...that's all I can say).

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by DAIVD

- I've done development testing and a smoke test to ensure the game runs but leave the unbiast testing to the testers. 'Claimed fixed' just means I think I fixed it, it doesn't mean it is.

Umm....what the hell is a "smoke test"?

[rkmsuf]

If the game makes sense when he's high?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Umm....what the hell is a "smoke test"?

He turns the game on and lights a cigarette. If he gets to the intro screen, the tests passes.