WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

His post seems pretty clear that he is saying Holden is alive, which directly disputes what you claim.

To Be clear Alan:

Cronin was Holden

Telle is Human
Lathum is Human
*I* am Human
Chief is the BodyGuard
TwoThree is Deckard

Wichi leaves a diminishing group of people still in question

You
Lonestargirl
Path12
NTNdeacon

Did I miss anyone?

[RendeR]

And Jonathan Ezarik


So its 5 known good guys and 5 uknowns.

[Telle]

I hate waiting.. where the heck is Tangle?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

And Jonathan Ezarik


So its 5 known good guys and 5 uknowns.

actually one of the good guys is dead and you are putting yourself in that group.

3 goods, 6 unknowns.

[Alan T]

Render, if you supposedly are good, why would you purposely mislead us and put us in a position where two good guys have 1 of them obviously telling a lie, and then leaving the rest of us to try to decide which?

That move barely makes sense for a bad guy to do it, it makes no sense for a good guy to. Best case it ends up with one of you dead and us going after the other one on a witchhunt that ends up with no result.

Right now your posting makes me feel that you are bad, your bluff was called and you are hoping that twothree chose not to go after you.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

actually one of the good guys is dead and you are putting yourself in that group.

3 goods, 6 unknowns.

No at worst you have 4 good 5 unknown. How do you get down to 3? Or are you still hung up on Chief NOT being the bodyguard?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RendeR

No at worst you have 4 good 5 unknown. How do you get down to 3? Or are you still hung up on Chief NOT being the bodyguard?

I not 100% sold on CR

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Render, if you supposedly are good, why would you purposely mislead us and put us in a position where two good guys have 1 of them obviously telling a lie, and then leaving the rest of us to try to decide which?

That move barely makes sense for a bad guy to do it, it makes no sense for a good guy to. Best case it ends up with one of you dead and us going after the other one on a witchhunt that ends up with no result.

Right now your posting makes me feel that you are bad, your bluff was called and you are hoping that twothree chose not to go after you.

If thats the case, vote me off today. Simple. Seriously, if the way I did it seems that rediculously insane tell me, I'll vote for myself to go to Mars to prove my trust list is real.

The fact is everyone was circling around lathum/chief and even YOU without giving any real thought to anyone else. The problem with that is two of those three are guarenteed good guys at this point (as far as I'm concerned at least) and I did what I did to try and break the losing cycle you all had fallen into.

Lynch me, it just proves me right.

[twothree]

I did put an attempt at killing RendeR.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by twothree

I did put an attempt at killing RendeR.

whew...

[twothree]

Originally Posted by twothree

I did put an attempt at killing RendeR.

That should be... I did make an attempt at killing RendeR for my night action.

[Lathum]

well if you were succesful that saves us from having to lynch him today

[RendeR]

Thats ok twothree. The only way I survive is if the bodyguard protects me from you too =) if thats the case then I can verify him as well.

If I die then I die and we now know that Lathum is human and you have the scenario I posted above to work with.

I took a gamble and it could have really blown up, but it appears for the loss of one Human *me* that we now have a much more solid circle of trust.

[RendeR]

So where the heck if Tangle =) I hate waiting!

[tanglewood]

This morning there is no such relief of a hospitalised person, but once again more news of death. Ntndeacon was found dead in his home this morning, clearly an act of murder. Condolences go out to his family.

Day 6 ends 9pm EST

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Thats ok twothree. The only way I survive is if the bodyguard protects me from you too =) if thats the case then I can verify him as well.

If I die then I die and we now know that Lathum is human and you have the scenario I posted above to work with.

I took a gamble and it could have really blown up, but it appears for the loss of one Human *me* that we now have a much more solid circle of trust.

I don't see how anything you did helped any CoT. It just delayed us a day here if you are indeed good.

Lathum and Telle trust each other due to the hint Lathum dropped to Telle. Anything you have done hasn't told us anything about Chief Rum at all, and we're still left trying to figure out if he is believable or not. I made my case for why I felt it would be suicide to come out as a bodyguard the way he did if he was a wolf, thus I think he is good.

As far as i can tell, you took heat off of one of the unknowns for today and placed it squarely on yourself.. and if you are a villager, that is a losing move.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The real bodyguard if Chief isn't it, would be able to come out and say he's lying. And since twothree didn't die, we have to assume he was protected somehow. So i think we have to come to the thought that chief rum is the bodyguard, he just doesn't really get much in the way of information at night thus was wrong about stuff that cronin did, was wrong about Lathum, and got lucky with barkeep.

Actually last night I reread almost all posts Chief Rum made, and there was one post where he got his facts messed up which led him to believe Lathum was a replicant, I think. This is what convinced he is probably the human bodyguard. Let me go look it up so I can quote it.

[Alan T]

Well, I think the wolves helped us out some, as ntndeacon was one of the ones not on any cleared list...

Twothree, I would love to hear what happened to your attempt on render.. Wouldnt mind hearing render's side of it as well.

[Lathum]

so I can't wait to hear from twothree

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by twothree

Actually last night I reread almost all posts Chief Rum made, and there was one post where he got his facts messed up which led him to believe Lathum was a replicant, I think. This is what convinced he is probably the human bodyguard. Let me go look it up so I can quote it.

Yeah, I am pretty convinced that Chief is the bodyguard, and he just doesn't see as much as he assumes he sees at night, thats the only thing I can think of.

If Chief was evil - He would have known Twothree was being attacked that night.
If chef was evil - He woudn't know twothree would have survived the attack and would assume twothree was dying
If chief was evil - he wouldn't come out saying he is the bodyguard and protected someone who ends up dead.

[twothree]

OK. Someone stopped me from killing RendeR last night, and I don't know who. This sucks.

[RendeR]

Well THATS a twist...

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, I think the wolves helped us out some, as ntndeacon was one of the ones not on any cleared list...

Twothree, I would love to hear what happened to your attempt on render.. Wouldnt mind hearing render's side of it as well.

I never got to RendeR's place. Someone attacked me before I got there, and I ran away again. I am such a coward in this game.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by twothree

OK. Someone stopped me from killing RendeR last night, and I don't know who. This sucks.

unless CR says it was him
I see no reason to not to

VOTE RENDER

[Alan T]

And Chief won't be back until late because of working two jobs today he says... Do we assume as the bodyguard he chose to protect Render?

THis makes a mess of what to do today. I assume Lathum, Telle, Chief , Twothree are all good.

Do we waste a day trying to see if Render is a wolf, or go after Path, LSG or Jonathan.

I'm leaning towards LSG.

[twothree]

And since I can't seem to kill you.

vote RendeR

I don't know if I am right, but for now I want to put my vote on RendeR.

[Lathum]

It seems obvious to me the replicants are looking for Tyrell and Sebastion, otherwise why kill someone who is an unknown?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't see how anything you did helped any CoT. It just delayed us a day here if you are indeed good.

Lathum and Telle trust each other due to the hint Lathum dropped to Telle. Anything you have done hasn't told us anything about Chief Rum at all, and we're still left trying to figure out if he is believable or not. I made my case for why I felt it would be suicide to come out as a bodyguard the way he did if he was a wolf, thus I think he is good.

As far as i can tell, you took heat off of one of the unknowns for today and placed it squarely on yourself.. and if you are a villager, that is a losing move.

Barring some revelation in a PM which I have yet to see, my move was a gamble, Ia gree, but it took teh heat off Lathum, who was gonna get killed if not for me throwing myself under the bus, so to speak.

Its not so much that what I did proved anything, but it broke up the circular arguments you all spent 4 pages having over wether to kill lathum or someone else. Lathum is good, so in effect I kept him alive.

I want to know HOW I lived too. Thats weird. I expected to be dead.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

And Chief won't be back until late because of working two jobs today he says... Do we assume as the bodyguard he chose to protect Render?

THis makes a mess of what to do today. I assume Lathum, Telle, Chief , Twothree are all good.

Do we waste a day trying to see if Render is a wolf, or go after Path, LSG or Jonathan.

I'm leaning towards LSG.

I agree LSG needs to go as well.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by twothree

I never got to RendeR's place. Someone attacked me before I got there, and I ran away again. I am such a coward in this game.

Ahh perhaps CR protected you again instead of Render then and just by being attacked prevented you from killing Render.

if this is the case, I guess we just lynch Render today and have no idea who or what he ends up being as we get no information from a lynch.

THen tonight twothree can scan either: myself, Path, Jonathan, or LSG.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Barring some revelation in a PM which I have yet to see, my move was a gamble, Ia gree, but it took teh heat off Lathum, who was gonna get killed if not for me throwing myself under the bus, so to speak.

Its not so much that what I did proved anything, but it broke up the circular arguments you all spent 4 pages having over wether to kill lathum or someone else. Lathum is good, so in effect I kept him alive.

I want to know HOW I lived too. Thats weird. I expected to be dead.

How would you as a good guy know Lathum was good there before Telle confirmed him?

[RendeR]

Ok, he never got to me to try and kill me, that answers my still breathing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Ahh perhaps CR protected you again instead of Render then and just by being attacked prevented you from killing Render.

I don't follow this?

NTN was attacked.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

actually one of the good guys is dead and you are putting yourself in that group.

3 goods, 6 unknowns.

Interesting how you guys don't want to include yourselves. My breakdown:

Goods:
Telle (human)
Chief (BG)
twothree (Deckard)

Unsure:
Alan
JE
RendeR
Lathum
path
ntn
LSG

[Telle]

The wolves killed NTN. They can only make one attack at night, right? So it couldn't have been them who attacked twothree. And can anyone think of ANY game mechanism that would have stopped twothree from killing RendeR OTHER than the bodyguard protecting RendeR?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How would you as a good guy know Lathum was good there before Telle confirmed him?

and why would you, as a villager, throw yourself under the bus for another villager?

It makes no sense.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

Interesting how you guys don't want to include yourselves. My breakdown:

Goods:
Telle (human)
Chief (BG)
twothree (Deckard)

Unsure:
Alan
JE
RendeR
Lathum
path
ntn
LSG

Path, I think you need to include me in your good list.

[Telle]

We have a 100% rock-solid COT with me, Lathum, and twothree.

I'm still a little iffy on Chief, but leaning towards good.

Everyone beyond that is still suspect.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How would you as a good guy know Lathum was good there before Telle confirmed him?

I wasn't convinced totally. What I wanted to force to happen was that everyone would stop chasing their proverbial tails and think about something other than the 4 page argument over who's story sounded better and think about someone else for a bit. It worked, you all looked at me, lathum found a way to prove himself through telle.

I trusted telle based on Cronin's early posts and twothree's scanning of her.

What I did was NOT a normal positive move, but something HAD to be done to make you all stop running in circles.

If it costs me a lynching, so be it, but in my mind I took a gamble and it paid off.

If you really believe I am a replicant, send me to Mars.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It seems obvious to me the replicants are looking for Tyrell and Sebastion, otherwise why kill someone who is an unknown?

I suspect after the past couple nights they wanted to find someone unlikely to be guarded, though your theory makes just as much sense.

[Lathum]

Render, when you mde that statement yesterday I was in no danger. It was clear barkeep was getting lynched.

I just don't understand how it makes sense for one supposed villager to throw attention from another suspected villager.

It seems more likely you were hoping to false reveal as holden at some point and it backfired.

[path12]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Lathum is good, so in effect I kept him alive.

How do you know this? There's a lot of definitive statements being tossed around lately without proof. Those are always dangerous assumptions.

So please spell it out for me like I'm an idiot. How do you know Lathum is good?

[path12]

Originally Posted by twothree

I never got to RendeR's place. Someone attacked me before I got there, and I ran away again. I am such a coward in this game.

If you got attacked, and ntn was killed, does that mean the replicants can make two attempts? It certainly makes it sound like there's still at least two out there, and that casts some doubt on Barkeep's guilt, doesn't it?

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

st. cronin also did not meet anyone on Night Two. So if he was the other Bladerunner, he chose not to do anything that night. It would have been his scan night (assuming he is opposite of twothree). Why would he not do anything?

My guess is that st. cronin was actually not a Replicant (twothree edit: In a following post he said he meant Bladerunner not Replicant.) as has been suggested. So I would look very closely at Lathum right now. Because he said st. cronin visited him on Night One.

st. cronin did place Lathum in his circle of trust prior to his death, but this was when Replicant scans were being revealed. Lathum was a later "reveal" and basically repeated the same story as st. cronin to gain trust.

Chief Rum stated st. cronin did not meet anyone on night two. Which is correct. However, Chief Rum makes the false assumption that it was st. cronin's scan night (night 2), when it was in fact my scan night. I scan on even nights, and Lathum has stated he was scanned on night 1 by st. cronin.

Chief Rum also wonders why st. cronin did not do anything on night 2. If st. cronin was Holden and was similar to Deckard (myself) in ability, then that is because on the first night that is not your scan night, you can not attempt a kill.

This is where Chief Rum got his facts messed up, and the reason he didn't trust Lathum because of it. At least I think he got his facts messed up.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Path, I think you need to include me in your good list.

Telle may be 100% on you, but I still think you're acting differently than usual and I am not ready to put you on my good list yet.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

Telle may be 100% on you, but I still think you're acting differently than usual and I am not ready to put you on my good list yet.

well if you play the same way everytime it's pretty easy to get pegged after a while

[twothree]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Barring some revelation in a PM which I have yet to see, my move was a gamble, Ia gree, but it took teh heat off Lathum, who was gonna get killed if not for me throwing myself under the bus, so to speak.

Its not so much that what I did proved anything, but it broke up the circular arguments you all spent 4 pages having over wether to kill lathum or someone else. Lathum is good, so in effect I kept him alive.

I want to know HOW I lived too. Thats weird. I expected to be dead.

How do you think saying Holden is alive takes the heat off Lathum????

If Lathum states Holden is dead. And, then you state Holden is alive. How does that help Lathum???

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by twothree

How do you think saying Holden is alive takes the heat off Lathum????

If Lathum states Holden is dead. And, then you state Holden is alive. How does that help Lathum???

it doesn't.

He was trying to set up a fake reveal later in the game.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by path12

How do you know this? There's a lot of definitive statements being tossed around lately without proof. Those are always dangerous assumptions.

So please spell it out for me like I'm an idiot. How do you know Lathum is good?

twothree is deckard
Twothree cleared telle
telle cleared lathum by verifying something from their respective PMs that only they would know. *read back a page or three*


I don't dispute that my action could be taken in any number of ways.

A) I'm a wolf, my attempt to claim I am Holden I'm an idiot because of the whole Lathum/Cronin/Telle situation on days 1 and 2, they have enough trust and knowledge from that to completely dispute such a claim. As a wolf it would be idiotic to even TRY this until Lathum at least was gone.

B) I'm Human, Claiming I am holden has the same issues as above but my motives aren't the same, I'm trying to either create doubt and confusion among the wolves and/or break up a faulty arguement that keeps going round in circles amongst the humans.

Either way its BAD for ME to do this, but in the end its better for the Humans as a whole because it makes people stop runing in circles, it brought about a convincing reveal from lathum that got telle to verify him(wether directly or just during the process) and in the end it slolidified a CoT that is at this point 50% of the remaining people.

I can't offer any hard evidence that I'm Human. I CAN say that I was bored out of my mind listening to you all babble on and on in circles making no difference whatsoever and nearly getting lathum killed last night.

If me making a "bad move all around" managed even a little of this, then lynch me, I'll go happily to Mars and hope they do some testing there in the future.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by RendeR

So at this point pretty much everyone is convinced of barkeep and the choice of another replicant is lathum or Chief Rum....

tough choices.

I just wanted to quote this post as it was one of the main ones that made me attempt to kill RendeR last night.

I am guessing, and hope Chief Rum can confirm, that he was the one that stopped me from killing RendeR.