2012 MLB Thread (Cabrera Gets Triple Crown, first since Yaz 1967)

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Whatever it is hopefully people will let the proper authorities investigate before anyone goes on trial. Not likely though.

Excuse me, but I watch quite a bit of Investigative Discovery.

Guilty.

[k0ruptr]

I think Beckett just doesn't give a shit anymore

[lungs]

Maybe I should talk more shit about Travis Ishikawa. He's got two jacks tonight.

[Logan]

I get a kick out of these types of things way too easily.

[Suicane75]

So does Lawrie get more than 10 games for his outburst last night?

[cougarfreak]

So far this season, the Reds batters in the nine spot have a higher OPS than their leadoff men.

[Chief Rum]

I'm not one to dwell on anyone's firing, but let's just say I am not exactly unhappy to see a particular hitting coach finally lose his job yesterday, a job he should have lost at least six years ago.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So does Lawrie get more than 10 games for his outburst last night?

What a joke of an ump. I didn't watch the game, just saw a video on mlb.com of the two pitches and the outburst. Both pitches look like balls, that first one was clearly a ball. Not smart of Lawrie to throw his helmet to the ground, but then the fucking umpire's reaction after, as if the slight tap of a helmet bouncing off the dirt makes him slightly stumble back like that, come on.

Yeah Lawrie will be suspended 5-10 games I think, but that ump should be fined or whatever they do to idiot umps. Maybe he'll get a raise.

[Young Drachma]

The ump is a joke. Lawrie should get 5 games max, it's not like he did it on purpose. But fuck that umpire.

[Chief Rum]

Wait, it was Fernando Rodney pitching to Lawrie? Shit, homes, you don't even need a pitch location chart for that.

[MikeVic]

This is what I imagine the ump's reaction to be when he hits 'hit' by Lawrie's helmet:

[Easy Mac]

People really don't think Lawrie threw it at him? He walking towards the ump, and throws it right down towards him. I could understand the accident argument if he threw it sideways or was walking a different direction, but he meant to throw it at the ump.

Also, Looking at the strike zone, pitches 4 (which was called a ball) and 6 were right on the edge of the strike zone, so it's not like it was egregious call or anything. You can really eyeball maybe 1 inch on a 90 mph fastball? Seeing how they're trained to do it, I'd take his split second interpretation over someone else's.

[MikeVic]

He throw it on the ground and it bounced up to graze the ump. You can't tell me his reaction after that doesn't look stupid.

[Ksyrup]

I think the bigger issue is that 4 of the 6 pitches were called inconsistently. If you group them as "2 on the edge" and "2 outside," he called one of each a ball and strike. So, in my mind, he fucked up 4 times, not just twice. You gotta call 4/6 the same thing and 1/5 the same thing, whichever it's gonna be.

[Easy Mac]

I'm not saying it wasn't a crap strike zone, but on a 3-2 count, after trying to go to first base the pitch before, you can't take a pitch that close.

That being said, I don't think he should get big suspension or anything. Give him M-F off and let the arbitrator cut it down or whatever it is they do.

[Ksyrup]

I would take a pitch that was called a ball 4 pitches earlier.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I'm not saying it wasn't a crap strike zone, but on a 3-2 count, after trying to go to first base the pitch before, you can't take a pitch that close.

That being said, I don't think he should get big suspension or anything. Give him M-F off and let the arbitrator cut it down or whatever it is they do.

Therein lies the problem. It had everything to do with his reaction before, on a call that was horrendously outside the strike zone. That last pitch could have been an inch high or a foot high, it was being called a strike. When you talk about "integrity of the game", I have a much bigger problem with situations like this than PEDs. Fuck that umpire and the horse he rode in on.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm not one to dwell on anyone's firing, but let's just say I am not exactly unhappy to see a particular hitting coach finally lose his job yesterday, a job he should have lost at least six years ago.

Was this a case of a struggling first basemen flexing his power? I know I have seen complaints about Micky Hatcher before but I find it curious that he may be held responsible for AP's struggles.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Was this a case of a struggling first basemen flexing his power? I know I have seen complaints about Micky Hatcher before but I find it curious that he may be held responsible for AP's struggles.

I don't know about that. I don't see Pujols being the kind of person who would suggest a team get rid of a coach on the basis of performance. Now, if there was some kind of underlying disagreement, like they didn't get along, that's another thing, but I haven't heard anything about Hatcher and Pujols not getting along. Plus, with a veteran like Pujols, I think most hitting coaches will just let him do his thing and maybe make a suggestion or two, but generally let the vet work out his own issues.

No, I don't think this was Pujols. I think it was owner Arte Moreno letting his organization know that the money he is spending needs to produce better results. For years, Scioscia has always backed Hatcher, been loyal to him, even when the Angels consistently produced poor hitting teams. So for Hatcher to get fired now, this had to come from above Scioscia, and that's not Pujols.

[Lathum]

So how many of you guys commenting on the strike zone watched the whole game to see what kind of zone the ump had been calling?

If he had a wide zone the whole game then the player needs to adjust, like it or not.

[Katon]

Judging from that plot above, he hadn't even had a wide zone the whole at bat.

[Suicane75]

While I do think those calls were horrible, I am sick of players deciding before the umpire, whether it was a ball or a strike. It's only human nature that an ump would get pissed at players repeatedly breaking for first before a call is made. Just stand there and wait for the damn call.

[Logan]

If that's human nature, bring on the robots.

[Suicane75]

You're telling me it wouldn't aggravate the hell out of you?

Edit: And I'm not saying it's an excuse at all, I'm just making a separate point.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So how many of you guys commenting on the strike zone watched the whole game to see what kind of zone the ump had been calling?

If he had a wide zone the whole game then the player needs to adjust, like it or not.

Well, pitches 4 and 6 are exactly the same amount of space off the plate (one high, one low), and one was called a strike while the other a ball. And pitches 1 and 5 are very nearly the same exact pitch, location and all, and one was called a strike and one was called a ball. So this isn't about a big vs. small strike zone, it's about consistency. I'd expect to be walking down the 1st base after either pitch 5 or 6, too, based on the calls he made on pitches 1 and 4.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You're telling me it wouldn't aggravate the hell out of you?

Edit: And I'm not saying it's an excuse at all, I'm just making a separate point.

He's a GD umpire. If he can't harness his emotions in order to do his job, he shouldn't be there.

[Suicane75]

Perhaps the same could be said of Lawrie.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

While I do think those calls were horrible, I am sick of players deciding before the umpire, whether it was a ball or a strike. It's only human nature that an ump would get pissed at players repeatedly breaking for first before a call is made. Just stand there and wait for the damn call.

There was a play in the Yankees/O's game the other night when the NYY batter (Martin? I forget.) trotted to first claiming he was hit on the leg...absolutely no call from the ump. Just let him trot to first. Showalter was all "what the hell??"

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, pitches 4 and 6 are exactly the same amount of space off the plate (one high, one low), and one was called a strike while the other a ball. And pitches 1 and 5 are very nearly the same exact pitch, location and all, and one was called a strike and one was called a ball. So this isn't about a big vs. small strike zone, it's about consistency. I'd expect to be walking down the 1st base after either pitch 5 or 6, too, based on the calls he made on pitches 1 and 4.

I can see comparing 1 and 5 but not 4 and 6. The generated lines there aren't "official". An inch in either direction based on batting stance, how high a guy wears his pants, ect could easily move the top of the zone up an inch or the bottom of the zone down an inch. That's just way too close to go into "fuck the ump" territory.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

He's a GD umpire. If he can't harness his emotions in order to do his job, he shouldn't be there.

Can't we say the same for that hitter?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Perhaps the same could be said of Lawrie.

True, and that's why he was deservedly kicked out of the game for his reaction. I'm not sure what that has to do with him being punched out on an expanded strike zone that was (in my opinion) based on his reaction to the 2nd called strike.

[Izulde]

Not sure it it was posted yet, but 4 game suspension for Lawrie and he's appealing.

[tucker rocky]

I see the same umpires from Toronto's series with TB, are doing the series with
NYY.

Bill Miller is umpiring 3rd, Lawrie is playing 3rd, hopefully cooler heads prevail.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Ugh. Looked like the Royals got screwed on that play at the plate. Flaherty's foot bounced right over the plate.

[Atocep]

Manny Ramirez is joining the Sacramento River Cats for 10 games starting May 25th. If Manny doesn't fuck things up somehow I'll be taking Kaden to see him play on June 3rd in Tacoma.

[Suicane75]

So I'm watching the Angels game and I see a hefty ball boy. Don't think I've ever seen that before. Then I'm watching the Giants game and I see another hefty ball boy. Weird how that happens. Like when you hear an old song for the first time and then hear it again a short time later.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

I can see comparing 1 and 5 but not 4 and 6. The generated lines there aren't "official". An inch in either direction based on batting stance, how high a guy wears his pants, ect could easily move the top of the zone up an inch or the bottom of the zone down an inch. That's just way too close to go into "fuck the ump" territory.

So, a 2-inch swing in the zone from top to bottom? That's a fairly wide strike zone. Either call it high, or call it low, but not both.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

So I'm watching the Angels game and I see a hefty ball boy. Don't think I've ever seen that before. Then I'm watching the Giants game and I see another hefty ball boy. Weird how that happens. Like when you hear an old song for the first time and then hear it again a short time later.

Perhaps they were inspired by Prince Fielder's success.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So, a 2-inch swing in the zone from top to bottom? That's a fairly wide strike zone. Either call it high, or call it low, but not both.

Not "wideness", but top to bottom, and maybe an inch or less on the top, and/or maybe an inch or less on the bottom. I just think you're putting too much stock in the where chart has the EXACT line there on pitches 4 and 6 especially. When the top of the strike zone is defined as "a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants", and the bottom is "the bottom of the knees", it's just not going to be that precise (especially when it appears that graph measures the strike zone by inches/feet from the ground the same for everyone regardless of the height/stance of the batter). And those dots on the graph don't appear too be the scaled size of a baseball. Pitches 4 and 6 are way to close to call considering those factors. If god or a perfect robot was calling those pitches, maybe they're both strikes, maybe they're both balls, maybe 4 is a strike and 6 is a ball, and maybe 6 is a ball and 4 is a strike. That graph simply can't answer that question definitively. (And if the ump got either of them wrong, it's not as big a human mistake as say, a player swinging and missing at a pitch or or a pitcher throwing a ball too high, or a player committing a fielding error....so maybe we'd love perfect umps but I don't understand the personal "fuck the ump" anger where now some people think it's OK to act like a dick to a ref/umpire if they make a mistake, but whatever, I always say that.)

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Manny Ramirez is joining the Sacramento River Cats for 10 games starting May 25th. If Manny doesn't fuck things up somehow I'll be taking Kaden to see him play on June 3rd in Tacoma.

I now see Manny Ramirez doing things to fuck up your plans somehow - odd things like keeping you tied up with work commitments or letting the air out of your tires.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by molson

but whatever, I always say that.)

That's for god damn sure.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

That's for god damn sure.

Relax, my posts are still hugely outnumbered the officiating crybabies who think a bad or borderline call against their team is some kind of personal moral failure they take offense to. It's just interesting to me. I can't think of another type of mistake in sports or even life that people take so personally or get so angry about. I mean look at pitch #6 up there. On a human-made graph, not to scale, and not exactly representative of the real strike zone. People are calling for fines and firings, and possibly even blood over that. I think that attitude has grown recently, and I'm not sure why. It's the #1 topic in the basketball threads and definitely up there in the other sports threads, so I think it's something to fair to discuss and respond to with any angles beyond the repetitive bitching (and I only respond with anything a fraction of the times it comes up, but it comes up pretty much every day.) But I promise not to whine myself and bring up my opinion/confusion again for the next 25,000 blisteringly angry posts about officiating (so you should be spared until early next week or so).

[cartman]

The two foot long hot dog at the Ballpark in Arlington known as "The Boomstick" is getting a friend. Starting next Friday "The Great Bratbino", a two foot long bratwurst will also be available. Hopefully the kinks have been worked out of the cooking and delivery process, and I'll be able to sample one these when I'm at the game next Friday.

Boomstick gets a brother: The Great Bratbino - Dallas Texas Rangers Blog - ESPN Dallas

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by cartman

The two foot long hot dog at the Ballpark in Arlington known as "The Boomstick" is getting a friend. Starting next Friday "The Great Bratbino", a two foot long bratwurst will also be available.

Boomstick gets a brother: The Great Bratbino - Dallas Texas Rangers Blog - ESPN Dallas

Clearly our populace is not fat enough. Why else would sports continue to provide such obviously unhealthy food?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Clearly our populace is not fat enough. Why else would sports continue to provide such obviously unhealthy food?

and obviously we should place the blame on those who produce and sell the food, not those who lack the discipline to eat a salad and take a walk every once in a while.

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Clearly our populace is not fat enough. Why else would sports continue to provide such obviously unhealthy food?

Delicious, DELICIOUS unhealthy food!

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and obviously we should place the blame on those who produce and sell the food, not those who lack the discipline to eat a salad and take a walk every once in a while.

The blame can be placed on both sides.

[oykib]

It seems that Bud won't stop until he kills all my enjoyment of baseball.

First round series to go back to 2-3 format from the current 2-2-1

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by oykib

It seems that Bud won't stop until he kills all my enjoyment of baseball.

First round series to go back to 2-3 format from the current 2-2-1

Changing the series format for one season due to scheduling issues leads you to posting this?

Not that Bud doesn't deserve the wayward eye, but this seems an awful small and seemingly necessary thing to be the source of the angst coming through in your post.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by oykib

It seems that Bud won't stop until he kills all my enjoyment of baseball.

First round series to go back to 2-3 format from the current 2-2-1

Bud Selig is the Gary Bettman of baseball who is the David Stern of hockey (without the marketing savvy).