The Biden Presidency - 2020

[Butter]

If you're trying to get some quality jobs out there, a huge infrastructure and green energy deal is a great way to do it. Or we could just wait until some more bridges collapse and kill people and global warming worsens even more. That's fine too. Then we can spend 20 years figuring out "how to pay for it".

[albionmoonlight]

Infrastructure was his literal slogan--build back better. Agree or disagree with it, but people voted for Biden knowing that this was going to be the centerpiece of his first term.

The Dems seem to have figured out what the GOP figured out a little while ago. When surveyed, huge majorities of voters claim to care about the deficit and bipartisanship. But no one actually votes based on those things.

If the GOP had decided to cut spending and raise taxes when they had power instead of increasing spending and cutting taxes, they would have lost even harder than they did in 2018 and 2020.

It's like people saying that a buffet should have lots of good fresh vegetable options. Everyone says that b/c it makes you feel good and virtuous for caring about health. But when we go to serve a plate, we all put on that symbolic one sprig of broccoli and then load up on triple helpings of chicken fried steak and hash browns with gravy.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's like people saying that a buffet should have lots of good fresh vegetable options. Everyone says that b/c it makes you feel good and virtuous for caring about health. But when we go to serve a plate, we all put on that symbolic one sprig of broccoli and then load up on triple helpings of chicken fried steak and hash browns with gravy.

Best analogy ever

[sterlingice]

Damn, now I'm hungry for a giant helping of chicken fried steak and one piece of overdone broccoli soaked in butter

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

How many trillions does Biden plan on spending in his first year? Maybe he should consider how we're going to pay for all this?

Maybe don't spend trillions on planes that can't fly in the rain.

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

Also when it comes to student loan forgiveness, the idea that it's a 1 off things is ridiculous. People who aren't stuck with $1000/month loan bills for 30 years may not need food stamps or other government help. They may be able to spend money on other things in our economy. They can buy homes and so on. That money doesn't disappear into a void, it goes back into the economy.

And that doesn't account for the innovation we may bring. How many brilliant minds couldn't start their own business or put time into an invention because they needed a second job to pay off debt they took out at 19?

[GrantDawg]

Stifling innovation is the best arguement for universal Healthcare and UBI as well. People being stuck in dead end jobs because of fear of losing their insurance or having absolutely no money coming in, stops people from starting businesses, creating inventions, going back to college etc etc.

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Stifling innovation is the best arguement for universal Healthcare and UBI as well. People being stuck in dead end jobs because of fear of losing their insurance or having absolutely no money coming in, stops people from starting businesses, creating inventions, going back yo college etc etc.

People in power consider that a feature, not a bug. Less competition for them.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Maybe don't spend trillions on planes that can't fly in the rain.

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

Sounds like the B-1 bomber has a little brother now.

[GrantDawg]

The A-10 was supposed to be retired in the late 80's. Still around, because defense contractors just blow money. Every military order is just a "jobs" program.

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[RainMaker]

Just weird how we spend trillions on military equipment that doesn't work or we don't need. Essentially socialism for defense contractors and no one bats an eye. Use it to eliminate student debt and create an age of innovation? Too expensive.

[JPhillips]

I doubt we'll get into a large scale war, but if we did, I have serious concerns about the reliability of our equipment. We've lost the lesson of WW2 that the most advanced doesn't necessarily equal the best fighting force.

[BYU 14]

This is the problem with just churning out new and innovative equipment without manpower or resources to maintain what you have. One of our son deployments included body armor that was broken and 2 years past date of retirement.

I have no problem with balanced military spending between innovation and renovation which would lead to a smaller, more effective fighting force. But just buying shiny new toys for the sake of saying you have shiny new toys is stupid and a waste of resources.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I doubt we'll get into a large scale war, but if we did, I have serious concerns about the reliability of our equipment. We've lost the lesson of WW2 that the most advanced doesn't necessarily equal the best fighting force.

We have a massive budget and can't beat the Taliban. Just tossing money into a void.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We have a massive budget and can't beat the Taliban. Just tossing money into a void.

oh believe me it isn't going to a void....it's going into pockets

[JediKooter]

And I just saw something yesterday where they are thinking that the B-52 service life will be continued to at least the 2050s or something like that. Seems like tax payers got their money's worth out of that aircraft.

[albionmoonlight]

We’ve run the numbers and here’s your receipt, @SpeakerPelosi @SenSchumer. pic.twitter.com/e2cAG8st8W

— Sen. Marsha Blackburn (@MarshaBlackburn) February 24, 2021

So $500,000,000 of objections in a $1,900,000,000,000 bill?

That's really all they are finding objectionable?

Hell, I'm a Democrat and I could probably find more than half-a-billion worth of things that sound bad.

[Lathum]

So on brand to list arts, museums, and library services first.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Maybe don't spend trillions on planes that can't fly in the rain.

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

Also when it comes to student loan forgiveness, the idea that it's a 1 off things is ridiculous. People who aren't stuck with $1000/month loan bills for 30 years may not need food stamps or other government help. They may be able to spend money on other things in our economy. They can buy homes and so on. That money doesn't disappear into a void, it goes back into the economy.

And that doesn't account for the innovation we may bring. How many brilliant minds couldn't start their own business or put time into an invention because they needed a second job to pay off debt they took out at 19?

We definitely need to consider our military spending (and probably cut it in half) and decide what is the proper size.

But really anyone with a loan can make the argument that "If my loan that I took voluntarily was paid off then I could contribute more to the economy". Should the government pay off every debt in America?

[rjolley]

Ok, what is Pelosi's Subway? Is she planning on buying a few franchises in the DC area?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

We’ve run the numbers and here’s your receipt, @SpeakerPelosi @SenSchumer. pic.twitter.com/e2cAG8st8W

— Sen. Marsha Blackburn (@MarshaBlackburn) February 24, 2021

So $500,000,000 of objections in a $1,900,000,000,000 bill?

That's really all they are finding objectionable?

Hell, I'm a Democrat and I could probably find more than half-a-billion worth of things that sound bad.

You forgot to add the $$$ from "Much, much, more"

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

But really anyone with a loan can make the argument that "If my loan that I took voluntarily was paid off then I could contribute more to the economy". Should the government pay off every debt in America?

No, just the ones tied to education. We should strive to be an educated society.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This is the problem with just churning out new and innovative equipment without manpower or resources to maintain what you have. One of our son deployments included body armor that was broken and 2 years past date of retirement.

I have no problem with balanced military spending between innovation and renovation which would lead to a smaller, more effective fighting force. But just buying shiny new toys for the sake of saying you have shiny new toys is stupid and a waste of resources.

Winner, winner chicken dinner!

[ISiddiqui]

Minimum wage increase imperiled in covid relief bill by Senate official’s ruling
By Erica Werner

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...icials-ruling/

Well shit. Parliamentarian says min wage hike can't be included in reconciliation until reconciliation rules.

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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Minimum wage increase imperiled in covid relief bill by Senate official’s ruling
By Erica Werner

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...icials-ruling/

Well shit. Parliamentarian says min wage hike can't be included in reconciliation until reconciliation rules.

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It was always a bit of a stretch.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Minimum wage increase imperiled in covid relief bill by Senate official’s ruling
By Erica Werner

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...icials-ruling/

Well shit. Parliamentarian says min wage hike can't be included in reconciliation until reconciliation rules.

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Dems can overrule the parliamentarian. But leave it up to them to fail on passing an extremely popular measure.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't think that the Dems have 50 votes for a $15 wage on its own.

If it were part of the whole "must pass" package, it had a better shot.

Of course, the more popular stuff that gets piled behind the filibuster . . .

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't think that the Dems have 50 votes for a $15 wage on its own.

Just a worthless party that has a fetish for losing.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Dems can overrule the parliamentarian. But leave it up to them to fail on passing an extremely popular measure.

Or they could just fire him like Trent Lott did in 2001 for Bush's tax cuts.

[sterlingice]

That implies the Dems want to get a $15/hr minimum wage.

They just want the political cover to say they tried

SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That implies the Dems want to get a $15/hr minimum wage.

They just want the political cover to say they tried

SI

All day and twice on Tuesday

[ISiddiqui]

Y'all act like it isn't 50-50 in the Senate and one of the Democratic 50 is Joe Manchin..

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Y'all act like it isn't 50-50 in the Senate and one of the Democratic 50 is Joe Manchin..

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Force Manchin to vote against a wildly popular stimulus bill because of the wildly popular minimum wage increase in it.

[NobodyHere]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/polit...ran/index.html

Looks like Biden isn't afraid to lob a few missiles into the Middle East.

[GrantDawg]

Force Manchin by gun? Kidnap him, and beat him with hoses? If it were easy, it would be done. It benefits Biden way more to get this through complete than not. Push Manchin too hard, and he could leave the party. Would that help things get passed?

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[JPhillips]

Manchin won't leave the Dems, but he might vote against the bill or vote against other things. There's simply no way to bully him into doing anything, so take a smaller win rather than a loss.

[GrantDawg]

Manchin would "never" leave? Theaten to take him off committees. Threaten to withhold Federal funds from West Virginia. Shut down favored projects. These are all suggestions I have seen, and I bet any of them would drive him out of the parry.

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Manchin won't leave the Dems, but he might vote against the bill or vote against other things. There's simply no way to bully him into doing anything, so take a smaller win rather than a loss.

There is a way. See if he would like his daughter to answer questions under oath.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There is a way. See if he would like his daughter to answer questions under oath.

So be just as shitty as republicans then?

[JPhillips]

It's also counterproductive as that kind of intimidation will flip control of the Senate.

It's frustrating, especially that enough Dems won't drop the filibuster even for voter protections, but getting smaller isn't the answer.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's also counterproductive as that kind of intimidation will flip control of the Senate.

It's frustrating, especially that enough Dems won't drop the filibuster even for voter protections, but getting smaller isn't the answer.

Exactly and in states that are balanced senators have to walk a thin line and in spirit at least work for all their constituents, not just those in their party.

Not doing this is exactly why Arizona is blue now, enough independents finally got sick of the craziness that is a large piece of the states republican party.

[JPhillips]

I think he's absolutely wrong in terms of the filibuster and I don't think it's really an issue voters care about. However, he is the king of the Senate right now. Get to 53 or 54 in 2022 and he no longer matters.

I guess the same is true about shrinking to 49, but the outcomes are a lot less favorable.

[larrymcg421]

You're a worthless party of moderate shills unless you're willing to blackmail someone to produce a desirable political outcome.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

So be just as shitty as republicans then?

Do what works. His daughter is a despicable person so it's not like you're doing something unethical. The only reason she has gotten off the hook till now is because of her Dad.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

You're a worthless party of moderate shills unless you're willing to blackmail someone to produce a desirable political outcome.

Kind of like how he blackmails us for pork for his state.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kind of like how he blackmails us for pork for his state.

That is sort of every Senator's job, improving things for the people that elected them. You know what isn't their job? Threatening family members of other Senators if they don't vote the way they want.


edit: and no doubt his daughter is scum. But you either investigate her or you don't.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Do what works. His daughter is a despicable person so it's not like you're doing something unethical.

WTF?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That is sort of every Senator's job, improving things for the people that elected them. You know what isn't their job? Threatening family members of other Senators if they don't vote the way they want.


edit: and no doubt his daughter is scum. But you either investigate her or you don't.

Then lets investigate her. Drag her ass out in front of the cameras and lets ask some questions under oath.

[bob]

Not a good look that people eligible for stimulus under Trump won’t get stimulus from Biden. Again, income != wealth, especially given cost of living differences. You would think Dems would know that given all the complaining they have done about SALT deduction limits.

Means testing just results in voters being against policies that would help the poor.

I saw this online:

Let’s take Biden’s own metric of “folks making $300,000.” The US Census found that roughly 7.7 million households made $250,000 or more in 2019 (the nearest available number to Biden’s figure). Giving all of these high-earning households the full stimulus check would cost roughly $10.8 billion — or about one-half of one percent of the proposed legislation’s cost.

[RainMaker]

SALT deductions help rich people a lot so it's an issue that they care about a lot. Stimulus doesn't.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Do what works. His daughter is a despicable person so it's not like you're doing something unethical. The only reason she has gotten off the hook till now is because of her Dad.

And this is why this country is so fucked up right now.