03-19-2020, 02:34 PM | #1651 | ||
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
Pelosi was demanding means-testing before she'd consider any proposal and Schumer is touting payday loans for small businesses. Sure members of the party have touted those ideas, but not the leadership. Quote:
Everyone's a social democrat during a pandemic. |
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03-19-2020, 02:35 PM | #1652 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2012
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I was talking about Italy's numbers. By my calculations we're about a week or 2 from seeing how the experiment worked? Could be wrong?
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03-19-2020, 02:35 PM | #1653 | |
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Quote:
Stop. No one is excited. But there was ample evidence even at the level of news consumer to see that this was a potential major problem. Saying nobody could have known is simply not accurate and not only allows the mistakes of the past to be forgotten, but gives permission for more mistakes to be made and ignored.
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03-19-2020, 02:36 PM | #1654 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
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I don't care who posted first. I do care deeply if, as it appears, high-ranking government officials understood how this was likely to go, but refused to act for political reasons.
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03-19-2020, 02:40 PM | #1655 |
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Michigan is moving rapidly up the list of states in terms of confirmed case count. Tripled the number of cases in less than a day. Detroit, unfortunately a de facto disaster area for decades already, is clearly about to become the latest big city to become an even bigger nightmare
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03-19-2020, 02:40 PM | #1656 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Uh no? A question, actually challenge, was proposed and it was answered. |
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03-19-2020, 02:41 PM | #1657 |
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I think when the dust settles, the Trump/fox news "poo-pooing" this in the early days really put us behind the 8-ball. I'm assuming most of the medical professionals consulted behaved like Ben's friend and Trump just decided not to listen. I know it would have been tough for him to make statements politically before it broke out, but the administration should have atleast been setting up the infrastructure behind the scenes to be ready if it did happen.
Last edited by Arles : 03-19-2020 at 02:43 PM. |
03-19-2020, 02:43 PM | #1658 |
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Or rather the folks who were seemingly more pessimestic a few weeks back were those who were taking these reports seriously? I mean it's undoubtable that Fox News was downplaying COVID-19 for a while, basically around the time when Trump was. And Fox News was telling it's viewers that it's basically no worse than the flu. This was the same time that CNN and MSNBC were getting worried about the pandemic. I don't think it's a coincidence that my friends who tend to watch Fox News were waiving off any fears and kept saying this is a 'media panic' and the 'media' should be ashamed of itself.
I don't think it's going too far to say Fox News has blood on its hands.
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03-19-2020, 02:45 PM | #1659 |
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not sure if this has been posted here or not.
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03-19-2020, 02:48 PM | #1660 | |
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Quote:
No one is fired up. That's ridiculous and you know it. There is no dick measuring contest. Panerd's post laid out a claim and JPhillips refuted the claim. The responses JPhillips cited weren't only his posts. They were posts from a variety of people who thought this was serious. You'd have known that if you spent 5 seconds looking at them before firing off your hysterical bullshit post.
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03-19-2020, 02:48 PM | #1661 |
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This is the problem with our political system right now. If the republican side is in power, they want to do everything to protect it and keep things going well. It's really no different than a NFL team if a top player gets suspended for steroids. Their fans say it's no big deal while opponent fans act like that player is the worst person on the planet.
One hope for after we get through all this is maybe we dial that "us against them" rhetoric back a bit. But, given what I see on twitter right now (from the left and the right), that looks like a pipe dream. |
03-19-2020, 02:50 PM | #1662 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
We've been warned periodically of worldwide virus and illness threats. Look at the Ebola thread. We were all going to die. Nobody here, private citizens, had expert information about where we'd be now. The amount of worry one had, or preparations one made, was entirely based on one's own personal worry and pessimism level. The worriers were right this time. If they used that worry to help others or prepare to help others, than that's great. They're heroes. If it's about bragging on message boards and putting others down who don't think the world is ending every time there's a new flu reported, I'm not sure it's as productive. I'm still more optimistic than most. It's just how I'm wired. I heed official advice. And my priority is helping people. But I sure as hell didn't think this is where we'd be on March 19. If I was a more depressed, pessimistic person, I would have been scared and started buying toilet paper in January I guess. I don't think that would have made me a better person. |
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03-19-2020, 02:52 PM | #1663 |
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Generic "both sides" rhetoric is also very problematic.
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03-19-2020, 02:58 PM | #1664 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
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Bingo, and the press is already misfiring on this story, from what I'm seeing. They're talking about how Burr "didn't inform the public." Whatever. Though all won't agree with it, there's a cogent argument to be made that the public didn't need to be informed until it was time for us to start social distancing, etc. My issue is if, as it appears, they had this guidance from medical experts and didn't DO anything.
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
03-19-2020, 02:59 PM | #1665 | |
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Quote:
Another hope is we can drop this "best in the world" attitude and exceptionalism that no longer exists. This country has been exposed as behind the curve scientifically and bureaucratically. Perhaps this experience will be a lesson for us to catch up to the rest of the world. |
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03-19-2020, 02:59 PM | #1666 | |
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Quote:
Yeah much better response than I had, thank you Molson. Let's just say JPhillips.posts and attitudes on this seem to be slighty politcial? |
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03-19-2020, 02:59 PM | #1667 |
General Manager
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Maybe, but if we're going to draw a moral line between the optimistic and the pessimists, then I think the pessimists are on the wrong side to the extent they didn't take steps to help others when they knew where were headed. I feel like this board right now is a lot of financially-secure people comfortably hiding out, patting each other on the back, and judging people who don't have that luxury. Last edited by molson : 03-19-2020 at 03:03 PM. |
03-19-2020, 03:02 PM | #1668 | |
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Quote:
Serious question outside of China, Italy, and South Korea where exactly do the other countries of the world differ for better or worse? Because we are talking similar numbers as the US all across.Europe and those governments vary from highly bureaucratic and socialist to closer to us with seemingly similar results to one another. So what improvements could we have made that would have made any difference? |
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03-19-2020, 03:04 PM | #1669 | |||||
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03-19-2020, 03:04 PM | #1670 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Not really. Jphillips is a chicken little on everything Trump does. (Kind of like Ron Paul when the market fails right?) My original post was about others taklkng about great travel deals who now claim to have had the foresight that the sky was falling back then. |
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03-19-2020, 03:07 PM | #1671 | |
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Quote:
China and South Korea were far more prepared to handle this than we are. Really can't compare them to us. |
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03-19-2020, 03:11 PM | #1672 |
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03-19-2020, 03:17 PM | #1673 | |
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Quote:
My parents are similar, both over 70 and still going shopping, for coffees at the golf club, to a garden centre today. It’s selfish & irresponsible in my eyes: the science says no, the government says so, me and my brother say no, but they don’t want to, so it’s screw the rest of country, risk their grandkids growing up without a full set of grandparents. Mum’s a Daily Mail reader, dad’s just stubborn and doesn’t consider himself in the at risk group (he’s active and better than the vast majority at his age, but still 87 and takes pills for an elevated HR about which he had to go to A&E twice last year). Nothing either me or my brother have said seems to have had much effect (they did ask me to get some stuff while I was at the supermarket today, but went to the garden centre at the exact same time). My only option is to aggressively call them on it - my thought is to remind them that they voted Brexit as they felt it was better for the UK to govern ourselves, and then 3 months later they choose to directly and consciously ignore the UK government advice in the most serious time since WW2... I don’t know what else to do TBH.
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03-19-2020, 03:25 PM | #1674 | |
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Quote:
Even still, that take was too optimisitc. South Korea cases went from 95 to 150+ new so it’s still not exactly over there. There are already two strains of COVID-19 out there and it’s shown a pretty good ability to mutate, now add in infecting a bunch of new hosts. I don’t anticipate international travel opening up anytime soon. |
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03-19-2020, 03:31 PM | #1675 |
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Not to mention completely wrong. There is enough evidence that Fox News completely downplayed it based on what the President was saying. And now there is evidence that Republican Senators knew 3 weeks ago that it'd be far worse than the President was saying in public and prepped themselves while saying it was a nothingburger in public. This isn't about pessimists 'winning', but the folks who were paying attention to what health experts were saying for weeks. It's another example of folks who constantly denigrate science not listening to the folks who had the facts and were warning people about it. And other media was getting concerned and talking about it. Sanjay Gupta has been on CNN for weeks saying this is going to be a problem. One major news network said it wasn't a big deal... they should not be left unscathed or benefit from the 'both sides' bullshit.
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03-19-2020, 03:33 PM | #1676 | ||
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Quote:
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But "American exceptionalism" has historically not been defined by us being ahead of the curve, it's been about our response when faced with threats. Part of South Korea's success wasn't government directed it was a private company acting early, and while it seems we missed that boat and there certainly should be questions about the manufacturing defect in the initial CDC developed test, Abbott, Thermo-Fisher & Roche are lined up to produce millions per week soon. Massachusetts/Boston is a good barometer for all this in that it has a ton of high quality hospitals, medical research and manufacturing companies that are used to partnering, all within a small area. It was also one of the initial flare ups (the Biogen conference) and one where the state government took seemingly drastic action a couple days before many other states. They'll probably be one of the first states to really test people who need it so a better idea can develop of the scope, and also one that has higher health care capacity than many (and so far 0 deaths). EDIT - I will add that unfortunately it seems like the NYC area and Georgia at a minimum will quickly turn into shitshows and have high death rates unfortunately. I won't be shocked if North Carolina joins them - Charlotte does have a large medical presence, but it is not being taken nearly as seriously here as up in Boston. Last edited by BishopMVP : 03-19-2020 at 03:37 PM. |
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03-19-2020, 03:39 PM | #1677 | |
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Quote:
US: 331 million Germany: 83 million UK: 67 million Italy: 60 million S Korea: 51 million Don't you think it would be a lot easier to deal with if all we had to worry about was California, Oregon and Washington? (52 million). Basically the US is akin to all of Western and Southern Europe (340 million) trying to stop the virus from spreading while keeping all their borders open with no restrictions. You're kidding me on China, right? They knew back on Dec 1, 2019 and did nothing until late January. If the US followed that model, we wouldn't do a thing until late April. The fact that China took over 7 weeks before taking serious steps is a major reason the rest of the world is dealing with it. China is an example of exactly how NOT to act when a potential outbreak occurs. If you think Trump is bad, look at how the Chinese treated Wuhan in December and most of January. Last edited by Arles : 03-19-2020 at 03:45 PM. |
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03-19-2020, 03:43 PM | #1678 |
Death Herald
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Talk about bad luck and timing. A cousin of mine opened up a new restaurant outside of Fort Worth a couple of weeks ago.
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03-19-2020, 03:44 PM | #1679 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
Did the restaurant go viral?
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03-19-2020, 03:48 PM | #1680 |
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Sean Payton has tested positive for the coronavirus
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
03-19-2020, 03:58 PM | #1681 |
Coordinator
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Was he at the Sloan Conference? I saw someone who is pretty sure he has it while at Sloan.
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03-19-2020, 03:59 PM | #1682 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Observed what was going on in S. Korea and done the following: ** Not downplayed it in official rhetoric & pronouncements. Prepare the public for the fact that it was coming here ahead of time, instead of saying its not an issue, it's a hoax, everything is under control, etc. ** Begun at least at that point, as I realize there wasn't political will in past years to do advance pandemic prep, to ramp up drive-up testing capacity, production of hospital equipment, etc. Quote:
Do you have a suggestion as to how we could ramp up competently trained medical staff in the relevant timeframe as well, since without that the additional ventilators/beds/etc. isn't going to do all that much good? |
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03-19-2020, 04:06 PM | #1683 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
I have not seen one person come across that way, and if I have then I am appalled. There is a huge difference between criticizing people for how they live socially and doing something out of necessity. |
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03-19-2020, 04:10 PM | #1684 | ||
Coordinator
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My wife has spent the last two days putting together lesson plans, remote assignments, links to various websites (She contacted all of the parents to make sure that the kids have access to a computer and internet) and individual suggestions for the parents/guardians of each kid. 5 of the 7 parents/grandparents/guardians of the kids don't know the user names nor passwords of the kid's e-learning accounts. Thank goodness she doesn't drink
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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03-19-2020, 04:13 PM | #1685 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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So....very close to home
My Mother in Law has to get tested. 7 days ago she was at a hospital in New York, Columbia Presbyterian. She had a heart transplant 11 years ago there and isn't in great shape. She was there for 3 days due to really bad diarrhea and dehydration. LShe came home last Thursday. Last couple days she has had a runny nose and sore throat. No fever and not dry coughing or having breathing issues. She called her doctor there today and he told her she needs to be tested. The earlier they find out the better. She called her PCP who said she doesn't think she can get a test without a fever. She called the heart doctor back. this is her exact message from there Quote:
She is currently waiting for her doctor in New York to call back. |
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03-19-2020, 04:19 PM | #1686 | |
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Senator Dumped Up to $1.6 Million of Stock After Reassuring Public About Coronavirus Preparedness — ProPublica
Quote:
Senator Burr needs to go to jail.
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03-19-2020, 04:21 PM | #1687 |
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@ Lathum: not much that can be said I don't think other than I've very sorry someone close to you is in that all-too-common situation.
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03-19-2020, 04:22 PM | #1688 | |
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Quote:
Though on the bright side, her symptoms sound more like the cold than Covid 19.
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03-19-2020, 04:23 PM | #1689 |
Head Coach
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FWIW, wife came back from a run. She dropped by Publix and got some eggs! She said it was pretty busy but plenty of eggs, a guy was putting them out.
That's a good sign I guess. |
03-19-2020, 04:26 PM | #1690 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Haven't heard much from the socialist democrat on the Pandemic since Sun debates. Guess the social democrats don't have much to offer in the immediacy of the situation (or still putting aloe on their butts with the butt kicking they got).
Probably Bernie and the other like minded Gen Zed & Millennial socialists were sunning it up in the Florida beaches and dreaming of their Cuban utopia. Last edited by Edward64 : 03-19-2020 at 04:27 PM. |
03-19-2020, 04:28 PM | #1691 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
I know! TBH I am frustrated at her doctor for getting her worked up. She has virtually no symptoms and he has to know she wont be able to get tested. All it is doing is making her panic. |
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03-19-2020, 04:31 PM | #1692 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Yeah, its definitely a problem with some posters getting political about trump. Jesus fucking christ dude. |
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03-19-2020, 04:33 PM | #1693 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Nothing to do with Trump, see #1651 for the political cheap shot. Last edited by Edward64 : 03-19-2020 at 04:36 PM. |
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03-19-2020, 04:34 PM | #1694 | |
Hall Of Famer
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We are barely getting started and nurses are already resorting to making their own masks. The UAE and Kuwait have tested more people than us. And why "outside of China and South Korea"? Two different governments that have both made us look like a 3rd world country in terms of response. We should be at least at their level. |
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03-19-2020, 04:37 PM | #1695 |
Head Coach
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I was referring to the numerous comments made during the day today accusing people of being overly and unnecessarily political regarding Trump in this thread. If that gets called out then the bullshit way you are referring to some politicians that you don't like does too. |
03-19-2020, 04:38 PM | #1696 |
Head Coach
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ah fuck it. Why I click on posts sometimes from people I have ignored is beyond me. Forget it, my fault.
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03-19-2020, 04:38 PM | #1697 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Feel free to call it out in post #1651. Let's be fair and balanced (not Fox version) |
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03-19-2020, 04:43 PM | #1698 |
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Tbf, what can Senator Sanders do at this point in time? He was one of the voices calling for direct payments to people at least. It's probably for the best if he doesn't try to grab the airwaves right now. I think he's actually considering whether he should suspend his campaign or not (he should).
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03-19-2020, 04:44 PM | #1699 | |
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Government is setting up UBI for Americans as we speak. President just made a declaration to nationalize private factories. There are multiple bills being pushed through to provide government health care, day care, and funding for businesses. The military is setting up publicly funded medical facilities and testing as we speak. That's not a cheap shot. The government is full of social democrats right now. There are no libertarians in a pandemic. |
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03-19-2020, 04:45 PM | #1700 | |
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The person I mentioned earlier was my mother-in-law. She tested negative, luckily.
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