Soccer Thread 2013-14

[The Jackal]

I'll wait for Grover to comment, since he's the Hammers fan.

[whomario]

ManU could now still get into the Europa League. Not important money wise obviously, but having some extra games when you plan on a spending spree might not be a bad thing (unloading players is tougher. Plus, the new Coach might want to have some oportunities to experiment)

[The Jackal]

Nice goal for Sunderland - Larsson on the volley

[The Jackal]

What a run for the black cats

[The Jackal]

Sucks for Everton, great season for them. Don't like that they have to be the odd one out, but better them than the Arsenal.

[vex]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Weather in the world cup .. thought this was an interesting article:

Brazilian weather and its likely effect on the World Cup

Preemptive excuses, nice.

[whomario]

Italian Cup Final between Fiorentina and Napoli in Rome has been delayed for over half an hour allready, apparently there were serious clashes between fan groups (both clubs and roman ones, just for kicks joining in ...) and safety concerns due to that. A couple police officers and fans shot and in hospitals ...

[SirFozzie]

Wow. Wow wow wow.

What a crazy finish to the championship

As it stood entering stoppage time

(Battle for 6th, last playoff spot)
Reading 2-2 Burnley
Nottingham Forest 1-1 Brighton

6 Reading (71 points, +14)
7 Brighton (70 points, +14)

Battle for 21st (Avoid relegation)
21 Doncaster (44 Points -31)
22 Birmingham (43 Points -17)

We enter the 93rd minute, when all unholy hell breaks loose.

Birmingham score to move into 21st place, and consign Doncaster to the drop

Brighton scores to pip the last playoff place away from Reading.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by whomario

Italian Cup Final between Fiorentina and Napoli in Rome has been delayed for over half an hour allready, apparently there were serious clashes between fan groups (both clubs and roman ones, just for kicks joining in ...) and safety concerns due to that. A couple police officers and fans shot and in hospitals ...

Reports are 3 Napoli fans have been shot, one has died.

edit: Apparently the story is that Napoli fans were attacked after their car was stopped by people "speaking Rome slang". The Napoli fans are clashing with police and attempting to get at Roma fans as a result.

BeIN Sport International has a person on site tweeting, english is not their first language, but here's a running update:

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri

[Grover]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'll wait for Grover to comment, since he's the Hammers fan.

The good news is we beat Spurs three times this year. (Twice at WHL).

The bad news is Sam probably keeps his job because of these results.

Another season of Andy Carroll and Kevin Nolan fouling their way to goals is not my idea of a good time.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wow. Wow wow wow.
What a crazy finish to the championship

As a Brighton supporter I can't tell you how awesome the end to that match was, I'll readily admit I woke my eldest son up this morning with the shout that erupted on us scoring

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Grover

Another season of Andy Carroll and Kevin Nolan fouling their way to goals is not my idea of a good time.

You really dislike Carroll? - if so I sincerely hope that West Ham are kind enough to let Brighton have him should we go up, he's a quality striker and even when he's not scoring he makes intelligent runs and is very hard working and also actually very good as a supporting player for his team-mates ....

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

You really dislike Carroll? - if so I sincerely hope that West Ham are kind enough to let Brighton have him should we go up, he's a quality striker and even when he's not scoring he makes intelligent runs and is very hard working and also actually very good as a supporting player for his team-mates ....

I like what he can do, yes, but for the price tag he's not been worth it to this point. Especially considering the injury history he's had with the club. We need to play a bit less direct than we do. Carroll needs better players around him than Stu Downing and Matt Jarvis.

Over the past few years, really dating back to following the club we've had a really, really poor transfer policy. I'll include the Tevez and Mascherano deals in that because they were so dodgy.

Look at the other players we've signed and the prices we've signed them at though.

06/07 - Luis Boa Morte £5M, Julien Faubert £6M. Not to mention the Tevez and Mascherano deals which ended up costing us £30M to Sheffield United. And their actual transfer fees were never actually disclosed, plus the whole third party agent business.

07/08 - Freddie Ljungberg £3M, clearly past his prime at this point. We also paid £6M for the eternally injured Kieron Dyer. Craig Bellamy was a solid player for us, but was he worth £7.5M?

08/09 - Savio Nsereko £9M Who? He made under 10 appearances for the club before disappearing into obscurity. Really the last bad mistake from the Icelandic group before Gold and Sullivan took over. At least we sold Bellamy on for £14M.

09/10 - Alessandro Diamanti £6M - Wasn't cut out for England. Showed his talent in spots, but went back to Italy for £1.8M and got capped by his national team.

10/11 - The relegation season under Avram Grant. £6M Demba Ba, was great in bursts, as he has been with Chelsea, but had a relegation clause in his contract. He was an expensive six month loan.

11/12 - I had no problems with Sam's signings that year. Nolan has been worth the £3.5M to this point. Getting £6M for an aging Scotty Parker was coup as well.

12/13 - Modibo Maiga £5M, he has struggled for starts and looks almost helpless as a loan striker. He needs to be in a partnership. Jarvis £10.75M Provided one assist and 0 goals in his first season with the club. This season hasn't been much better.

13/14 - Andy Carroll £15.5M has the talent and ability. Needs to stay healthy. Would benefit in a two striker system better than having Nolan slotted behind him. He's much better as a supporting target man, bringing other players up the pitch into the play than he is at creating the chances for himself, especially with his back to goal. I really think a competent poacher/pacey forward could really help Carroll shine.

£6M Stewart Downing do I really need to say more here?



And now you know more about West Ham's transfer history than you'll ever need to know.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

As a Brighton supporter I can't tell you how awesome the end to that match was, I'll readily admit I woke my eldest son up this morning with the shout that erupted on us scoring

As a Leicester fan I lost a little interest in the Championship about 6 weeks ago tbh just hope that I continue to be apathetic for a couple of years at least

Good luck in the play offs btw - would much prefer you or Wigan to go up than QPR or Derby.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Originally Posted by Grover

13/14 - Andy Carroll £15.5M has the talent and ability. Needs to stay healthy. Would benefit in a two striker system better than having Nolan slotted behind him. He's much better as a supporting target man, bringing other players up the pitch into the play than he is at creating the chances for himself, especially with his back to goal. I really think a competent poacher/pacey forward could really help Carroll shine.

£6M Stewart Downing do I really need to say more here?



And now you know more about West Ham's transfer history than you'll ever need to know.

Just be glad you didn't pay more than double that for those two....

[DaddyTorgo]

IT'S SCUDETTO SUNDAY!!!!

CHEERS TO CATANIA FOR LETTING US GET THE PARTY STARTED EARLY!!!!

[miami_fan]

Looking at the picture attached to the Chelsea- Norwich City match report led me to wonder. Has anyone ever seen a player sent off for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures? I have seen red cards for each of the other offenses but never that one. Since I am also watching the Nets-Raptors game, the idea of Joey Crawford on the pitch is also running through my head.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Looking at the picture attached to the Chelsea- Norwich City match report led me to wonder. Has anyone ever seen a player sent off for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures? I have seen red cards for each of the other offenses but never that one. Since I am also watching the Nets-Raptors game, the idea of Joey Crawford on the pitch is also running through my head.

I have seen it happen a few times. The most memorable was the red card Stephane Mahe got for dissent during a '99 Celtic-Rangers game. After the red card all hell broke loose.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/foo...ier/334094.stm

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Looking at the picture attached to the Chelsea- Norwich City match report led me to wonder. Has anyone ever seen a player sent off for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures? I have seen red cards for each of the other offenses but never that one. Since I am also watching the Nets-Raptors game, the idea of Joey Crawford on the pitch is also running through my head.

Well, there was the Anelka quenelle brouhaha a while ago for West Brom. Pretty sure he got sent off for that.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Well, there was the Anelka quenelle brouhaha a while ago for West Brom. Pretty sure he got sent off for that.

He definitely did not get sent off for the gesture. Before Anelka made the gesture, I don't think anyone in the UK had a clue what it was.

The uproar started afterwards when the newspapers picked up on it.

[Critch]

Great weekend in La Liga. Barcelona draw, Atletico Madrid lost to Levante this morning, Real Madrid needed a last minute equalizer to scrape a draw at home to Valencia. Great goal from Cristiano Ronaldo it was too.

Looks like it's all going to end up with Atletico going to Barcelona on the last week of the season needing a draw to win the league, but with Barcelona knowing that if they win Real Madrid will win the league. Still a couple of weeks to go though, so that could all change again.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Looking at the picture attached to the Chelsea- Norwich City match report led me to wonder. Has anyone ever seen a player sent off for using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures? I have seen red cards for each of the other offenses but never that one. Since I am also watching the Nets-Raptors game, the idea of Joey Crawford on the pitch is also running through my head.

i remember a MLS player getting a red card for flipping another player the bird

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Critch

Great weekend in La Liga. Barcelona draw, Atletico Madrid lost to Levante this morning, Real Madrid needed a last minute equalizer to scrape a draw at home to Valencia. Great goal from Cristiano Ronaldo it was too.

Looks like it's all going to end up with Atletico going to Barcelona on the last week of the season needing a draw to win the league, but with Barcelona knowing that if they win Real Madrid will win the league. Still a couple of weeks to go though, so that could all change again.

Maybe a great weekend in terms of results, but yet again we have racist chants and horrific fan behavior. This time at Atletico Madrid. Sad.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Just be glad you didn't pay more than double that for those two....

Touché.

Though that was only because they agreed to sell Torres for +£20M whatever Carroll cost.

[Katon]

So clearly the real moral is to be glad you didn't pay £50M for Fernando Torres.

When Allardyce does leave, do you think West Ham's ownership will be willing to move Carroll on? Signing Torres hasn't damaged Chelsea by preventing them from spending so much as by forcing every manager to give him a decent amount of time up front to see if he's fixed yet (and, since he's guaranteed more-or-less first-striker minutes, by preventing the club from committing to a genuinely world-class forward). If Carroll's wages are enough to make West Ham feel like they have to play him, you could be stuck with pretty direct football even if Allardyce moves on.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Maybe a great weekend in terms of results, but yet again we have racist chants and horrific fan behavior. This time at Atletico Madrid. Sad.

When did Spain turn into Italy?

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Katon

So clearly the real moral is to be glad you didn't pay £50M for Fernando Torres.

When Allardyce does leave, do you think West Ham's ownership will be willing to move Carroll on? Signing Torres hasn't damaged Chelsea by preventing them from spending so much as by forcing every manager to give him a decent amount of time up front to see if he's fixed yet (and, since he's guaranteed more-or-less first-striker minutes, by preventing the club from committing to a genuinely world-class forward). If Carroll's wages are enough to make West Ham feel like they have to play him, you could be stuck with pretty direct football even if Allardyce moves on.

I think Carroll will stick around, but they need to find better players to complement him if they're going to play a direct style. We need wingers with some pace, Downing and Jarvis severely lack any and can struggle beating their defender.

Like I said in the earlier post, Carroll needs some help up top. I feel like a second striker would work better for us than using Nolan as a bully to knock down headers for Andy. I have no issue with playing direct football. It can be done in a pleasing way. It's Sam Allardyce's Route One style that kills me. Launching long ball after long ball forward with one lone striker is numb. Especially when he hardly has any help. We need players with more pace for the system to work.

[The Jackal]

I'm going to be sad if Sagna leaves, which it sure looks like he will.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Grover

It's Sam Allardyce's Route One style that kills me. Launching long ball after long ball forward with one lone striker is numb. Especially when he hardly has any help. We need players with more pace for the system to work.

On a recent flight, I noticed the guy next to me had a full West Ham tracksuit on. He was playing Football Manager on his Ipad, so we started talking. Turns out he was looking for youth talent for West Ham here in the States. It was actually pretty funny because he was so incredibly frustrated with the team's style of play at the senior level. He couldn't understand why the youth teams and reserves played a much more interesting style than Allardyce did. He felt like it was such a waste to be bringing these players through being trained one way and then having to play a completely different way once they got a chance in the first team. Of course, I wanted to tell him that he only needed to check a box under 'Staff Responsibilities' and all the tactics would be uniform.

But the most ironic part of the whole conversation was that he told me he was an Arsenal supporter, even in his current position. I didn't even know that was possible if one was employed by another club, but there he was, seemingly even more concerned about Wenger's transfer policy than his own squad.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm going to be sad if Sagna leaves, which it sure looks like he will.

He is so unspectacular yet so unheralded. He does nothing special yet just about everything well for what he is supposed to be able to do.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

But the most ironic part of the whole conversation was that he told me he was an Arsenal supporter, even in his current position. I didn't even know that was possible if one was employed by another club, but there he was, seemingly even more concerned about Wenger's transfer policy than his own squad.

See, this is bad. This gentleman is probably poisoning the Academy of Football. Bringing in only the worst 14-15 year old schoolboys around. But his frustration is well served.

16 independent West Ham fan websites took a poll with over 12,000 responses. 78% want Sam Allardyce sacked.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Just a gutpunch for Liverpool. City will really have to give it away now.

Reverse of '05

[Neuqua]

I turned off the Liverpool game once it became 3-0.

Damn.

[Grover]

Who knew a Tony Pulis side could muster three goals?

Incredible lack of discipline from Liverpool in the last 15 minutes. They looked dead tired and couldn't cope with Palace's pace on the outside. What a comeback.

[cthomer5000]

Crazy finale to that game. You could tell Liverpool was thinking about making it 5 or 6-0 and hoping to keep the chances alive for a goal differential tiebreaker... and this is what ultimately boned them. They weren't phased when it went to 3-1, but they were instantly panicked when it went to 3-2.

Crazy crazy game. They have thrown it away.

[Critch]

If that had happened to my team in FM, the laptop would have been bounced off the wall.

[cougarfreak]

Well shit.

[SirFozzie]

So... my favorite non league team (Cambridge United) are 90 minutes (yet again) from re-entering the league after winning the Conference Playoff Semifinal 2-1.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

So... my favorite non league team (Cambridge United) are 90 minutes (yet again) from re-entering the league after winning the Conference Playoff Semifinal 2-1.

I lived just outside Cambridge and used to go along to watch them now and again - if you ever visit the UK pop along to the match for 20-3 UKP you can watch the match and also have a 3 course meal in the 'directors lounge' before hand with the manager coming in and explaining his team selection to you before hand ... its ace

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

http://news.sky.com/story/1256043/ma...fine-from-uefa

Let's see how long this takes to be overturned.

Funny enough, in the reddit thread discussing this you can tell those who's played FM because they understand the difficulties the reduced CL squad (with the same nationality/homegrown restrictions) will place on City next year.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

http://news.sky.com/story/1256043/ma...fine-from-uefa

Let's see how long this takes to be overturned.

Funny enough, in the reddit thread discussing this you can tell those who's played FM because they understand the difficulties the reduced CL squad (with the same nationality/homegrown restrictions) will place on City next year.

Already posted in that reddit thread discussing it that I expect it to be a non-issue because it'll be overturned the same as the Barca "punishment."

[MIJB#19]

It's good news that there's a plan to punish Manchester City and Paris SG, but I don't get how and why they're supposed to be able to pay a 50M penalty, especially if the penalty is there because they are basically in great debt. Wouldn't it be fair to the other clubs to suspend them for a season and get replaced with teams that do play along. Although I suppose that deep down, it'll be very hard to find clubs that actually have a positive bank balance...

[sovereignstar v2]

Manchester City does not have any debt lol. You're confusing them with another team in Manchester. A mid-table side.

[sovereignstar v2]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

http://news.sky.com/story/1256043/ma...fine-from-uefa

Let's see how long this takes to be overturned.

Funny enough, in the reddit thread discussing this you can tell those who's played FM because they understand the difficulties the reduced CL squad (with the same nationality/homegrown restrictions) will place on City next year.

They haven't and shouldn't accept the punishment, so there is nothing that needs to be overturned yet.

[flere-imsaho]

The more effective deterrent, I would think, would be to suspend them from European competition (for whatever duration). Not only do they lose revenue from that, but they lose prestige, which is what these particular owners are going for above all.

[Katon]

Eh, this will be a noticeable deterrent if it sticks (or if they do something worse to clubs which don't accept the offer). It'll severely hamper their ability to offer prospective signings CL football, both due to the wage cap and to the squad cap, which might well bump them to the back of the queue for top-class players.

I also wouldn't bet on anyone winning the competition under that squad restriction; by the time you account for the required homegrown players and a full set of keepers, there's not much room left for depth.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

It's good news that there's a plan to punish Manchester City and Paris SG, but I don't get how and why they're supposed to be able to pay a 50M penalty, especially if the penalty is there because they are basically in great debt. Wouldn't it be fair to the other clubs to suspend them for a season and get replaced with teams that do play along. Although I suppose that deep down, it'll be very hard to find clubs that actually have a positive bank balance...

Last week i read that the punishment could be not getting paid money from UEFA (prize money and TV rights). That would make the most sense, imo. They just don´t get a payday in the CL. Actually i´d be totally fine with this. Fans still get to see their team in the CL, not all players get punished (some obviously do with the reduced squad) and more youth players get a chance to play those games. And the teams don´t get an advantage in the national competition by not having to play in the CL.

Basically it would be all the hassle, all the excitement but without the cold, hard bottom line that has the managements so excited about playing in the CL.

[SirFozzie]

They're not in debt, they just ruled that the deals they signed with Etthiad etcetera were deliberately overpaying (IE, over fair value) for the purposes of artificially defeating FPP.

So yes, they (if they accept the deal, if not, a board will decide whether to issue harder sanctions) will be fined fifty million pounds AND have at least some of their TV rights money witheld.

(this has to do with PSG, but it's the same thing for Man City)

PSG's deal with the Qatar Tourism Authority (QTA) is controversial because the club are owned by a sovereign wealth fund which invests Qatar's vast oil and gas wealth in overseas companies.

Given that the QTA is also a branch of the Qatari state, the deal between the two is deemed by Uefa to be a "related party transaction".

As such, the contract must be of a fair value and similar to other deals struck by clubs of a similar size.

BBC Sport - Paris St-Germain's £167m deal fails Uefa financial fair play rules

Here's the Man City side:

There is a feeling in Abu Dhabi and the Etihad that Manchester City have been unfairly targeted but sources close to the Uefa process insist the size of the punishment fits the crime. Under the rules, ostensibly designed to cool rampant wage inflation and prevent clubs buying their way to success, clubs are allowed losses of €45m over the 2011-12 and 2012-13 seasons.

Although Manchester City lost £153m over the two seasons in question, club insiders have repeatedly insisted that the ability to write off the value of contracts signed before 2010 when the rules were unveiled, as well as write down investments in youth development and infrastructure, allowed them to narrowly comply.

But sources close to the process said that the size of Manchester City's proposed sanction related to the size of their transgression.

Uefa's accountants are believed to have concluded that Manchester City's £350m 10-year deal with Abu Dhabi's national airline Etihad and a series of licensing deals have been significantly overvalued.

Revealing that losses had been reduced to around £52m for 2012-13 from £99m the previous year, Manchester City said it had sold players' image rights for £24.5m to a separate company and raised £22.45m from licensing intellectual property to "third parties" – widely believed to be new City franchises in New York and Melbourne.

And according to Uefa's rules, the writedown on contracts signed by 1 June 2010 applies only to the first of the two seasons under consideration.

Basically, Man City used every accounting trick in the book to try to claim that they're complying with FFP (The deal is not as crazy as PSG's is.. they are getting 35 million pounds a year, compared to 167 million (yes, one hundred sixty seven million) for PSG), but they may have used tricks not allowed under the FPP formula.

[Grover]

Helena Costa becomes new coach of French Ligue 2 side Clermont Foot | News...

Big progress for women in men's sport.

[Marc Vaughan]

Clever set-piece ... not sure whether its 'sporting' or not ... or what the referee would have done if someone had encroached as it'd be very understandable in the circumstances ...

Kyoto Sanga score the CRAZIEST FREE KICK featuring a long line of dummies - YouTube