Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just leaked: Palin is the VP selection..........

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin Is McCain's VP Pick: Source - Your Money Your Vote * News * Special Report - CNBC.com

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

So if Palin is the Vice Presidential nominee does Joe Biden go after his counterpart's inexperience?

Yeah, the VP debate will obviously go in favor of the Dems. The Republicans only hope is that Biden gets so confident that he ends up saying something he shouldn't, which certainly isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Luckily for the Republicans, they'll have 3 debates to go after Obama's inexperience.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

There are 20 applications but there are also 8 orders already booked for plants in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. I'm not pulling that number out of my butt either, the company I work for supplies the Main Coolant Pumps for Nuclear Reactors.

That doesn't mean that those 8 plants can't be canceled, but those utilities, Georgia Power being one, has already started payment.

Well from what I read about 2-3 weeks ago,( I read about nuclear power as much as I could once McCain introduced it into the mainstream as a viable option). its only like is multiple reactors for 3 sites, GA, SC, and TX. Saying 20 new plants are being constructed is significantly different than placing reactor orders for 3 sites.

[lungs]

Wow. Just reading up on her, she was only elected Governor in 2006. Before that her only elected office was Mayor of a town of less than 10,000 people.

Granted, it's a big difference having the inexperience at the bottom of the ticket. But this is VERY inexperienced.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

Wow. Just reading up on her, she was only elected Governor in 2006. Before that her only elected office was Mayor of a town of less than 10,000 people.

Granted, it's a big difference having the inexperience at the bottom of the ticket. But this is VERY inexperienced.

Welcome to the 2008 election, where race or sex takes precedence over sound leadership and experience.

[ace1914]

McCain had to do something to make people say, "Wow, look at me, I'm running too." The big if, is whether McCain and Co. can sell this as a landmark Republican decision amongst middle-aged white women.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by ace1914

Well from what I read about 2-3 weeks ago,( I read about nuclear power as much as I could once McCain introduced it into the mainstream as a viable option). its only like is multiple reactors for 3 sites, GA, SC, and TX. Saying 20 new plants are being constructed is significantly different than placing reactor orders for 3 sites.

I agree with you. I think the rest are holding off till they see how these first few reactor plants go. The nation, and world, is still a little skeptical about nuclear power, but honestly there is so much margin built into the design that it is 100 times safer than in the 70s.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Welcome to the 2008 election, where race or sex takes precedence over sound leadership and experience.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree with you. I think the rest are holding off till they see how these first few reactor plants go. The nation, and world, is still a little skeptical about nuclear power, but honestly there is so much margin built into the design that it is 100 times safer than in the 70s.

Since you work in the industry, got a question. what's the start-up time for nuclear plants..10-20 year estimate?

[JPhillips]

It's a high risk/high reward pick, which is what he needed to do. Neither Romney or Pawlenty had the prospect of changing the race. Palin will either look great in a month or self-destruct under the pressure of a national campaign.

I imagine Don Young and Ted Stevens aren't very happy today.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Welcome to the 2008 election, where race or sex takes precedence over sound leadership and experience.

It's a shame us white males are losing our grip on power. At least we still have McCain.

[Young Drachma]

Dole/Ferraro 2008

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree with you. I think the rest are holding off till they see how these first few reactor plants go. The nation, and world, is still a little skeptical about nuclear power, but honestly there is so much margin built into the design that it is 100 times safer than in the 70s.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. My father has been a nuclear licensing manager for Southern Company since the late 1970s. As far as I know there are well over 60+ nuclear plants currently in use today that provide a pretty decent chunk of our country's electricity.

I thought for the most part most of the country has gotten over the fear of nuclear plants years ago and they are viewed as safe and effective. I might have completely missed your point though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

It's a shame us white males are losing our grip on power. At least we still have McCain.

LOL, well obviously my point was not that a minority or female can't do the job. I would simply state that there are FAR more qualified minorities or women from an experience and leadership standpoint than Obama and Palin. But, both parties are looking for the fresh (i.e. glass ceiling busting) face over experience. It'll certainly make the debates interesting.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. My father has been a nuclear licensing manager for Southern Company since the late 1970s. As far as I know there are well over 60+ nuclear plants currently in use today that provide a pretty decent chunk of our country's electricity.

I thought for the most part most of the country has gotten over the fear of nuclear plants years ago and they are viewed as safe and effective. I might have completely missed your point though.

When we met with utilities last year they were telling us how they were having troubles getting the licenses for new plants from the NRC. The NRC was making them jump through a lot of hoops and making it a bit difficult for them to get the licenses, unlike in the past where they didn't question it as much. I'm just going by what they were telling me.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by ace1914

Since you work in the industry, got a question. what's the start-up time for nuclear plants..10-20 year estimate?

I'm not exactly sure, this is my first time through. We are building plants in China as they were our first order. We signed the deal in December of 2006 and our shipping date for our pumps is in 2010. I'd imagine they would be up and running by 2012. So about 6 years.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

LOL, well obviously my point was not that a minority or female can't do the job. I would simply state that there are FAR more qualified minorities or women from an experience and leadership standpoint than Obama and Palin. But, both parties are looking for the fresh (i.e. glass ceiling busting) face over experience. It'll certainly make the debates interesting.

Since when did the American presidency become about "experience" though?

[molson]

Originally Posted by ace1914

How about when he tried to explain the complete futility of oil-drilling and the American people said no to rational thinking (25% of world consumption vs. 3% of reserves). Then when he changed his stance to appease more American people, he was called a "flip flopper" although McCain was against drilling just 2 weeks before.

It wasn't at all dissapointing to you when Obama talked about how ridiculous drilling was, and then decided drilling was important after all?

It was dissapointing to me. I perked up when Obama started talking about stuff like how stupid the gas tax holiday was, and how ridiculous it was to rely on drilling. I was all, "wow, this guy might actually have the courage for real change".

But he's backtracked, even DURING the campaign. While I believe that Obama might be a little more enlightened on his energy policy than McCain, I don't really believe there'd be any difference at the end of the day.

What I can't get away from is my thought that Obama has a much greater chance of being a total disaster than McCain. I can't get that thought out of head. McCain is safer, and I don't believe the "upside" of Obama.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

LOL, well obviously my point was not that a minority or female can't do the job. I would simply state that there are FAR more qualified minorities or women from an experience and leadership standpoint than Obama and Palin. But, both parties are looking for the fresh (i.e. glass ceiling busting) face over experience. It'll certainly make the debates interesting.

FWIW, I went into this election looking at experience as a bad thing. That's why, as a former staunch Republican, I picked up a Democratic ballot during the primaries for the first time. Kinda like Obama said in his speech last night

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

When we met with utilities last year they were telling us how they were having troubles getting the licenses for new plants from the NRC. The NRC was making them jump through a lot of hoops and making it a bit difficult for them to get the licenses, unlike in the past where they didn't question it as much. I'm just going by what they were telling me.

Hmm, I'm not in the industry, it just is something I grew up with I guess. My understanding was the main reason we don't see a bunch more nuclear plants today is not because of safety at all. It simply was the U.S. did not need them as we had excess energy already from "dirtier" sources of power that cause more greenhouse gases or harm the environment more than nuclear power does. With various environmental groups pushing the issue to move away from those dirtier power sources, nuclear power is getting steam again.. but I don't recall there being any safety issue at all with it for a very long time.

I have always seen it as one of those things that most people thought "Sounds great, just don't build it in my back yard" type of things.. Kind of like a landfill.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Hmm, I'm not in the industry, it just is something I grew up with I guess. My understanding was the main reason we don't see a bunch more nuclear plants today is not because of safety at all. It simply was the U.S. did not need them as we had excess energy already from "dirtier" sources of power that cause more greenhouse gases or harm the environment more than nuclear power does. With various environmental groups pushing the issue to move away from those dirtier power sources, nuclear power is getting steam again.. but I don't recall there being any safety issue at all with it for a very long time.

You think rationally that's why you don't see a safety concern. But mention it to a few others and I bet you don't get that far before someone mentions 3-Mile Island or Chernobyl (sp?).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

FWIW, I went into this election looking at experience as a bad thing. That's why, as a former staunch Republican, picked up a Democratic ballot during the primaries for the first time. Kinda like Obama said in his speech last night

Yeah, I hear there's millions of Republicans turned Democrat. I also hear there's millions of Clintonites voting for McCain. I'll believe both when I see it in November.

[Big Fo]

The Palin selection seems pretty desperate to me, I'm really looking forward to her debating Joe Biden.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

LOL, well obviously my point was not that a minority or female can't do the job. I would simply state that there are FAR more qualified minorities or women from an experience and leadership standpoint than Obama and Palin. But, both parties are looking for the fresh (i.e. glass ceiling busting) face over experience. It'll certainly make the debates interesting.

Again, explain how do you qualify to be president?

There is no job in the world that's going to prepare you to be the most influential, and quite possibly, the most powerful leader in the world. By the way, didn't Bush have consecutive term experience as Texas Governor? Also, his dad was president too so I guess that made him qualified too. On the other side, didn't carter have 2-3 terms as senator and was a governor too? Experience is overrated.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

The Palin selection seems pretty desperate to me, I'm really looking forward to her debating Joe Biden.

Is it more desparate than selecting an inexperienced minority for President?

FWIW.....neither are desparate moves. Both are well-calculated political moves aimed at capturing a part of the electorate that the party wants to capture. Anybody who says either move is desparate is using the biased side of their mouth to talk.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, I hear there's millions of Republicans turned Democrat. I also hear there's millions of Clintonites voting for McCain. I'll believe both when I see it in November.

Well, my turning against the Republicans is more of a result of my going through the liberal education system. I was brought up Republican, but came home from college a Democrat.

Education in America is indoctrination into the liberal ideology.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

You think rationally that's why you don't see a safety concern. But mention it to a few others and I bet you don't get that far before someone mentions 3-Mile Island or Chernobyl (sp?).

I guess people could bring up the Titanic as reasons they don't want to go on a boat as well. I bet if I lived next door to a nuclear power plant I'd be a bit nervous as well though. Maybe I was brainwashed on the subject growing up by my father though.

I'm don't really have a dog in this fight either though, just was a bit suprised that people still really feel nuclear power (that we have used since the 1950s or 1960s) safety is more of a concern than the dependance on foreign fuel sources or the environment is all.

[MrBug708]

I'd hit her now which makes her even more hittable as evidence as to her Miss Alaska 1982 photo (runner-up)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by lungs

Well, my turning against the Republicans is more of a result of my going through the liberal education system. I was brought up Republican, but came home from college a Democrat.

Education in America is indoctrination into the liberal ideology.

It was different for me. I was pretty much classified based on where I lived. In Georgia, I was a moderate democrat, living in Texas I was considered very liberal Democrat.. now in Massachusetts I'm considered very conservative now... go figure.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lungs

Education in America is indoctrination into the liberal ideology.

It depends on your personality I guess.

Three years in Eugene, OR definitely turned me more conservative because I just got so sick of obnoxious liberals. They poisoned me forever. So condescending, so dismissive of every other view, so arrogant that THEY know every single thing about how the world works, and if you so much as suggest an alternative, you're a "neo-con" or worse. On a college campus it's even worse, because they think they're smarter than everyone else too.

Conversatives want to talk me into to joining them, liberals want to attack me for disagreeing with them (It's a dynamic I feel costs liberals elections).

I sometimes want to vote liberal, but they turn my stomach. Of course, I'm not a christian right guy. There's no political party for me, and no vote that really feels right.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by molson

So condescending, so dismissive of every other view, so arrogant that THEY know every single thing about how the world works, and if you so much as suggest an alternative, you're a "communist" or worse.

It works both ways.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by molson

It wasn't at all dissapointing to you when Obama talked about how ridiculous drilling was, and then decided drilling was important after all?

It was dissapointing to me. I perked up when Obama started talking about stuff like how stupid the gas tax holiday was, and how ridiculous it was to rely on drilling. I was all, "wow, this guy might actually have the courage for real change".

But he's backtracked, even DURING the campaign. While I believe that Obama might be a little more enlightened on his energy policy than McCain, I don't really believe there'd be any difference at the end of the day.

What I can't get away from is my thought that Obama has a much greater chance of being a total disaster than McCain. I can't get that thought out of head. McCain is safer, and I don't believe the "upside" of Obama.

Safer? Can we agree that we are in deep sh** as a country, already behind a "safe" pick?

Insanity defined: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Vegas Vic]

For those of you who think that McCain picked Palin solely on her gender; she is is the youngest governor in Alaska history and she was elected largely on the issue of ethics reform, one of McCain's longtime caucuses. During her time in the governor's mansion, Palin has also fought "pork barrel spending," another top McCain issue.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

Well, my turning against the Republicans is more of a result of my going through the liberal education system. I was brought up Republican, but came home from college a Democrat.

Education in America is indoctrination into the liberal ideology.

So you went to Boulder and came back a weed-smoking liberal? Am I right?

I remember a quote about this very topic. If I remember right, it was golfer Tom Watson.....

"If you're under 25 and aren't a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you're over 50 and aren't a conservative, you don't have a brain."

[molson]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

It works both ways.

I'm sure it does. I always feel it more from the left, but maybe that's just because I where the liberals are super-aggressive, and conservatives are kinder/gentler (perhaps out of fear that their tires will get slashed).

I lived in an environment where cars with Bush bumper stickers were vandalized, and students with conservative leanings were harrasssed to the point where the administration has to get involved.

The reverse doesn't seem to be true in Idaho, a classic Red State.

My experiences are limited though.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

For those of you who think that McCain picked Palin solely on her gender; she is is the youngest governor in Alaska history and she was elected largely on the issue of ethics reform, one of McCain's longtime caucuses. During her time in the governor's mansion, Palin has also fought "pork barrel spending," another top McCain issue.

She's also pro-life. Picking a pro-choice VP would have guaranteed a loss for McCain.

[Big Fo]

Winston Churchill had a similar quote once, with the ages at 30 and 40 respectively.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ace1914

Safer? Can we agree that we are in deep sh** as a country, already behind a "safe" pick?

Yes, all of us that watched the Democratic Convention are now fully aware that everyone is losing their jobs and homes, the soup kitchen lines go on for blocks, and we have no military or political allies. Our country is in ruin.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

For those of you who think that McCain picked Palin solely on her gender; she is is the youngest governor in Alaska history and she was elected largely on the issue of ethics reform, one of McCain's longtime caucuses. During her time in the governor's mansion, Palin has also fought "pork barrel spending," another top McCain issue.

Well not solely. I'd say about 92.5%, though. The other 7.5% is because she's a pro-life woman.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ace1914

Safer? Can we agree that we are in deep sh** as a country, already behind a "safe" pick?

Insanity defined: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

My view only makes sense if I believe McCain is better than Bush, which I do. Even Obama has acknowledged such.

Just because Bush sucks, doesn't mean all Republicans would be a comparative disaster. I'm not compelled that McCain "votes with Bush 95% of the time", what does that even mean, since when does Bush cast Senate votes? If they mean McCain votes "conservatively" 95% of the time, ya, no shit.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So you went to Boulder and came back a weed-smoking liberal? Am I right?

I remember a quote about this very topic. If I remember right, it was golfer Tom Watson.....

"If you're under 25 and aren't a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you're over 50 and aren't a conservative, you don't have a brain."

That's real. When you are young, you don't have anything. As you grow older, you want to keep the stuff you've worked for, forgetting the fact that your wealth, if you didn't start with anything, was helped built by the taxes and hard work of those who had more than you. I see the ideals, just don't agree.

Democrats----->Republicans.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So you went to Boulder and came back a weed-smoking liberal? Am I right?

I remember a quote about this very topic. If I remember right, it was golfer Tom Watson.....

"If you're under 25 and aren't a liberal, you don't have a heart. If you're over 50 and aren't a conservative, you don't have a brain."

I smoked weed when I was a conservative too.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by ace1914

That's real. When you are young, you don't have anything. As you grow older, you want to keep the stuff you've worked for, forgetting the fact that your wealth, if you didn't start with anything, was helped built by the taxes and hard work of those who had more than you. I see the ideals, just don't agree.

Democrats----->Republicans.

Well, you'll come around. I voted for Bill Clinton twice in my younger years.

[SFL Cat]

okay, looks like McCain is picking a hottie to be his VP running mate...he's got my vote now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lungs

I smoked weed when I was a conservative too.

But did you wait to inhale until you became a liberal?

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by molson

My view only makes sense if I believe McCain is better than Bush, which I do. Even Obama has acknowledged such.

Just because Bush sucks, doesn't mean all Republicans would be a comparative disaster. I'm not compelled that McCain "votes with Bush 95% of the time", what does that even mean, since when does Bush cast Senate votes? If they mean McCain votes "conservatively" 95% of the time, ya, no shit.

So isn't working across aisle and voting conservatively 95% of the time, mutually exclusive?(Not trying to be an ass, just asking a question)

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

okay, looks like McCain is picking a hottie to be his VP running mate...he's got my vote now.

She is kinda sexy, though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

okay, looks like McCain is picking a hottie to be his VP running mate...he's got my vote now.

I just had a thought. Will the press attempt to get Palin crotch shots to post on the internet much like the Britney Spears fiascos?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

Conversatives want to talk me into to joining them, liberals want to attack me for disagreeing with them (It's a dynamic I feel costs liberals elections).

Another stereotypical view of liberals. Good work.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ace1914

That's real. When you are young, you don't have anything. As you grow older, you want to keep the stuff you've worked for, forgetting the fact that your wealth, if you didn't start with anything, was helped built by the taxes and hard work of those who had more than you. I see the ideals, just don't agree.

Democrats----->Republicans.

That's part of it, I guess.

But believe me, it's also true that as people get older, they believe more that the liberal "direct" approach to a strong economy just doesn't work as well.

It's liberal propaganda - you're not the only side that wants to reduce poverty and help the economy, you're just not. Conservatives just think it's not as simple as "take money from rich, use it to help poor". If that was true, we would have solved poverty by now.

I think as you get older, you give up on the "ideals" (because nothing ever REALLY changes), and you want a system that just works somewhat.

I'm reminded of a quote in a chick flick my gf dragged me to this week called Brick Lane. The guy said something like, "when you're young, everything is possible. When you're older, you just want a few things to be certain".