WW LXVII -- The Return of Divination Nation! (GAME OVER STUDENTS WIN!!!)

[Barkeep49]

I think JH has given away more than he should already, quite frankly. I don't think I'm going to have time to recompile all the info that would be needed to verify his logic, but I'm going to trust it.

Vote Render

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well render, at this point, I'm inclined to trust heinz even though he won't fully reveal his thoughts because for once I actually know he's a good guy, unless a wolf found the gun and took out another wolf to give them full game immunity

But I would also like to say I don't want to see this turn into a runaway, render has made a couple of decent points, but when heinz is 100% he rarely backs down

You can change rarely to never. I am not backing down on this. No way, no how.

And I just know it's killing you to believe me Jackal, but you're making the right call.

[Barkeep49]

Render: Just as I asked nfg on D3 I would love for you to state who we should be voting for, if not you. I like the case against you because I trust JH as a villager and I trust him to have done the analysis correctly. But it would be helpful if you at least gave us someone else to talk about rather then trying to go directly at someone I think we all pretty much trust at this point.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

unless a wolf found the gun and took out another wolf to give them full game immunity

Wait....wait...yes folks, thats right, JH has done EXACTLY this before. This is why I want facts and not just his opinion. Everyone else should too. We've been led around by the NOSE thus far in this game, and JH's 'Miraculous' one shot wonder is our only bagging of ANY wolf. That doesn't sound a bit fishy to anyone else?

We haven't SNIFFED a wolf yet, but out of the blue JH nails one with his ONLY shot? Coincidences do not exist.

I'm not asking you to change your votes yet, I'm simply asking that you all not take the chance of being led in circles by someone with a proven history for doing exactly that.

is it too much to ask for some supporting facts? I think not.

[MikeVic]

I agree with what BK is saying. Give us an alternative. I trust heinz, so I'll go with his recommendation.

VOTE RENDER

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Render: Just as I asked nfg on D3 I would love for you to state who we should be voting for, if not you. I like the case against you because I trust JH as a villager and I trust him to have done the analysis correctly. But it would be helpful if you at least gave us someone else to talk about rather then trying to go directly at someone I think we all pretty much trust at this point.

This is what bothers me most. We all DO trust heiney. Thats the rub here. He bought our trust with a single bullet taking down someone who is always suspected in games but had no real heat on him at the time.

As for who else to vote for? I'm still clueless. hence the reason I've been FOLLOWING everyone elses leads in this game. Heinz himself suggest Olie is a wolf, so I guess his "evidence" for me is just so much better that he'll go for me first? i dunno. I was planning on going for clap today based on everyone elses analysis and comments yesterday, but OH dear, we were all wrong on THAT too.

So i dunno BK I don't have a real solid target to go after, I haven't been keeping spreadsheets since I ran my fairytale land game months ago, I got sick of it. So I rely pretty heavily on everyone else.

I'd be inclined to believe Heinz, if it weren't MYSELF that he's gunning for without a fact in the world to support it. SO i guess I'd have to say let's bring Olie into it and see what falls out?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

And I just know it's killing you to believe me Jackal, but you're making the right call.

Stranger things have happened

But I'm also inclined to trust BK in this game, so I feel a little better.

What's the count, 4 votes?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Wait....wait...yes folks, thats right, JH has done EXACTLY this before. This is why I want facts and not just his opinion. Everyone else should too. We've been led around by the NOSE thus far in this game, and JH's 'Miraculous' one shot wonder is our only bagging of ANY wolf. That doesn't sound a bit fishy to anyone else?

We haven't SNIFFED a wolf yet, but out of the blue JH nails one with his ONLY shot? Coincidences do not exist.

I'm not asking you to change your votes yet, I'm simply asking that you all not take the chance of being led in circles by someone with a proven history for doing exactly that.

is it too much to ask for some supporting facts? I think not.

First off, you're hardly privvy to too much of my past WW record. Most of what Jackal speaks of is from a different board where I hoodwinked some folks pretty bad. I've done it here a bit, but I'm also, in my mind at least, a pretty darned helpful villager.

I (like many others) was suspicious of Cronin all along. Then he tripped up a number of times and that was that.

Was I 100% on that like I am on this?
No.
That should speak volumes in and of itself to people.

And I'll reiterate, this isn't my opinion at all. It's my fact.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

What's the count, 4 votes?

6 actually

Me, Mau, Olie, You, BK and MikeVic

[Pumpy Tudors]

Hey, if RendeR gets lynched and turns out to be a student, it's pretty obvious that we all get rid of heinz next. I mean, in a way, it's kinda throwing RendeR under the bus, but heinz seems more sure of this than anyone's been about anything in this game so far. I can be convinced to change my vote later, but just so it gets out there...

VOTE RENDER

[jeheinz72]

Hey, if I'm wrong, lynch me in the most painful way possible. Like I've said before, I'm not worried.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is what bothers me most. We all DO trust heiney. Thats the rub here. He bought our trust with a single bullet taking down someone who is always suspected in games but had no real heat on him at the time.

As for who else to vote for? I'm still clueless. hence the reason I've been FOLLOWING everyone elses leads in this game. Heinz himself suggest Olie is a wolf, so I guess his "evidence" for me is just so much better that he'll go for me first? i dunno. I was planning on going for clap today based on everyone elses analysis and comments yesterday, but OH dear, we were all wrong on THAT too.

So i dunno BK I don't have a real solid target to go after, I haven't been keeping spreadsheets since I ran my fairytale land game months ago, I got sick of it. So I rely pretty heavily on everyone else.

I'd be inclined to believe Heinz, if it weren't MYSELF that he's gunning for without a fact in the world to support it. SO i guess I'd have to say let's bring Olie into it and see what falls out?

? Cronin had like 3 or 4 votes on him already, heat was on him. He was going to be a lynch candidate yesterday had I not taken him down. That's a fact jack.

Re: My Olie thoughts, she's just in a subset of people, it's 5 people. Which is hardly impressive when I can discount myself and you (leaving 10) at the very least.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Hey, if I'm wrong, lynch me in the most painful way possible. Like I've said before, I'm not worried.

If you produced even a shred of evidence that points at me being furry I probably wouldn't argue this so hard. But you haven't done a damned thing to support your accusation other than saying "its 100%". I can tell you all that I'm 100% sure he's wrong, but there still isn't any evidence to prove it.

You said, I said. Come on dude, don;t kill off another villager without at least supporting your argument.

I'm tired of being tossed on the pyre without anyone even trying to find out why.

[The Jackal]

I must say though JH, I have a pretty good working knowledge of the votes by people that are left, and I'm kind of lost as to how you are 100% on render

I say this because it sounds like you have some info I or others of us clearly may have missed - what happens if you get killed tonight? Well have no friggin clue where you were coming from, even if render is a wolf

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

If you produced even a shred of evidence that points at me being furry I probably wouldn't argue this so hard. But you haven't done a damned thing to support your accusation other than saying "its 100%". I can tell you all that I'm 100% sure he's wrong, but there still isn't any evidence to prove it.

You said, I said. Come on dude, don;t kill off another villager without at least supporting your argument.

I'm tired of being tossed on the pyre without anyone even trying to find out why.

But you at least have to understand *why* I don't want to, right? I mean sure, I could lay it out, and yeah, everyone would vote for you and that'd be handy-dandy...for today.

But for tomorrow and after, I feel it would be hindering to the good guys. You can at least admit to understanding why I'm refusing to do so (to you at least).

And since I know I'm right, and given that, of course you want me to come clean, that's the precise scenario I'm looking to avoid.

I think you know your goose is cooked, you've already figured you can't overturn these votes and you've decided that "good enough" would just be for me to spill the beans. And frankly, the more you ask me to spill them, the less I"m inclined to do so, since that means I know something you wolves don't. Which means then tonight, the *hopefully* remaining wolves have to choose. Do they kill me, who is pretty sure he's figured out something, or do they try to kill someone with an actual role

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I must say though JH, I have a pretty good working knowledge of the votes by people that are left, and I'm kind of lost as to how you are 100% on render

I say this because it sounds like you have some info I or others of us clearly may have missed - what happens if you get killed tonight? Well have no friggin clue where you were coming from, even if render is a wolf

It's in the scans man, it is. Trust me.

And all I have concrete right now is that RendeR is a wolf. My other suppositions and subsets are all taking that to the next level, so they aren't worth discussing today as a group and they'd be clear to everyone tomorrow, just as they are to me today.

So if I die tonight, so long as that RendeR happens, then the village is losing no one (and almost more importantly, they're not losing the TP or CC).

So I'd say, for the villages sake, a RendeR lynch and a Heinz night-kill is a win for us.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I must say though JH, I have a pretty good working knowledge of the votes by people that are left, and I'm kind of lost as to how you are 100% on render

I say this because it sounds like you have some info I or others of us clearly may have missed - what happens if you get killed tonight? Well have no friggin clue where you were coming from, even if render is a wolf

What if another villager can figure it out based on what heinz has said?

[RendeR]

You know what? you're right. it would be exactly what the wolves would want in this situation, so don;t go nuts with the proof, just give the rest of them something, ANYTHING to suuport yourself. Not the whole story, just enough to at least give SOME reliability to your stance.

As for teh rest? Vote for me, If its going to go this way, lets get it done. I want to be sure of my status before 6pm as I won't be arounda t deadline tonight. Gotta take the wife to a hotel =)

When I turn up a student, I hope the rest of you burn heiney at the stake for making us all look like idjits.

Good enough? No more questions beyond this from me. Give us something, not everything, show us that you're not just blowing smoke up our asses. At this point the votes are enough that I'm not going to convince anyone otherwise anyway, so whats it gonna be?

[jeheinz72]

Honestly, there really is no sliver of info that I can give.

Either they believe me (good) or they don't (bad).

That's all I"m going to say.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What if another villager can figure it out based on what heinz has said?

It's not out of the realm, not at all.

[SnDvls]

VOTE RendeR

jeheinz is the closest thing we have to a COT at this point...even if we are wrong and RendeR is a villager it gives us so much more to go off of.

it's a busy day at work so I'm trying to following along as best I can so don't give me 6 new pages to catch up on today ok guys.

[The Jackal]

Sorry render, even a full reveal I think heinz isn't lying to us.

And that's fair enough, JH, just wanted to make sure you weren't holding some info we couldn't figure out.

Mike - I don't think its so much based on what he's said as it is in the scans, we just need to make sure we have accurate voting histories in these last few days - I'd volunteer but its impossible for me to do efficiently from my cellphone :P

[SnDvls]

I'm okay with any weekend plan too

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Sorry render, even a full reveal I think heinz isn't lying to us.

And that's fair enough, JH, just wanted to make sure you weren't holding some info we couldn't figure out.

Mike - I don't think its so much based on what he's said as it is in the scans, we just need to make sure we have accurate voting histories in these last few days - I'd volunteer but its impossible for me to do efficiently from my cellphone :P

Yeah, I have no insider information or anything, and it's all in the scans. Even furthermore, it's all in the confirmed-result scans. There's no wiggle room where I"m theorizing that anything is "likely" or "probably" true. It's just true.

[The Jackal]

Even without a full reveal, I meant

[Mr. Wednesday]

If Heinz is mistaken, so be it. I can understand why he's taking the approach he is, because I'm presuming he figures he'll be able to pin down at least one more wolf subsequently.

If he's been converted and this is an endgame wolf play, I'm going to pay him off and congratulate him.

BTW, my scan was already posted back on page 55 or so, but I'll repeat that I have The Jackal as student.


VOTE RendeR

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Honestly, there really is no sliver of info that I can give.

Either they believe me (good) or they don't (bad).

That's all I"m going to say.

And the reason you win this round is because we're all sheep, no matter what we tell ourselves. instead of requiring proof, we just "trust" people in a game where trust is the worst possible benefit to give someone.

Ok, so I'm hanging tonight. Kewl. At least I'll be free to work on my game next week =)

[jeheinz72]

Moving on to other topics...tonight's scans.

What is everyone thinking? Coordinate again, or let people go one-off?

[Mr. Wednesday]

One other thing...

If RendeR is NOT a wolf (and it's an honest mistake), PLEASE disclose the reasoning that led you to think that he was, so that we can see where you screwed up.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

One other thing...

If RendeR is NOT a wolf (and it's an honest mistake), PLEASE disclose the reasoning that led you to think that he was, so that we can see where you screwed up.

*CACKLES* ok, lemme say this one more time, wouldn;t it be far more intelligent to see this and find his mistake BEFORE you kill another student?? =)


*laughs*

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

One other thing...

If RendeR is NOT a wolf (and it's an honest mistake), PLEASE disclose the reasoning that led you to think that he was, so that we can see where you screwed up.

I promise you that I will.

And I promise you, that barring some completely unforseen construct, we won't have that conversation.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

One other thing...

If RendeR is NOT a wolf (and it's an honest mistake), PLEASE disclose the reasoning that led you to think that he was, so that we can see where you screwed up.

Yes, this needs to happen.

[RendeR]

Jut a thought, but you lynch me tonight, and the wolves kill another player overnight, that takes us from a 9-3 ratio to 7-3 and you're best source of trust has just proven himself to be completely wrong in his "drop dead lock" so now where do you turn?

Just sayin. When this night goes down this way yer setting this game up to end real soon and not in our favor =(

alright, I'll shut up now.

[mauchow]

I've got a thought on a scan for myself but dunno how much help it will be considering I've been wrong once and missed a scan another night.

Hopefully something will come up tonight.

[jeheinz72]

Or we got from 9-3 to 8-2 and I know I'll have a list of 5 players, of which 2 are wolves.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I've got a thought on a scan for myself but dunno how much help it will be considering I've been wrong once and missed a scan another night.

Hopefully something will come up tonight.

Well, I think it tonight should be more about getting the correct number of data points on people. Like we have 4 people with only 1 scan on them. Another 5 with just 2 scans.

I mean, I'd volunteer to randomly set them up again, but I'd understand if you guys don't want to put all of your eggs in one basket (me). Though I think what we set up for last night worked out well.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Or we got from 9-3 to 8-2 and I know I'll have a list of 5 players, of which 2 are wolves.

hey, you've made your stand, stop badgering me when I make mine =)

I *KNOW* I'm not a wolf, and as in every game that I get falsley accused I can't point at anything in particular that is strong enough to convince people otherwise. Its a fault with my playing style I guess. The point is I'm right, I KNOW I'm right and its frustrating the shit outta me to watch this all happen yet again.

yer good. I give you that.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

yer good. I give you that.

Ditto my (wolf)man, took you long enough to come online today! I've been waiting patiently for this back-and-forth! I love it!

[The Jackal]

Fyi, I'm fine with heinz setting up another night of random scans on people we need info on, but if anyone is uncomfortable with that, indiv scans would be fine as long as people are smart about it

[oliegirl]

BK - you seem to have figured out Ketchup Boy's logic, would you be OK setting up the scans for tonight? At least then we aren't giving over total power to Heinz...would everyone be ok with that?

[MikeVic]

As long as the low-scanned people are scanned more.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

As long as the low-scanned people are scanned more.

I agree...I've only been scanned 2 or 3 times, so I welcome people to scan me.

[jeheinz72]

Here's the info on # of times each person has been scanned

1 scan: jeheinz72, NTN, Pumpy, SnDvls
2 scans: MikeV, Mr.W, Olie, Jackal (well RendeR too, but he should be dead)
3 scans: Mau
8 scans: BK
9 scans: CR

[jeheinz72]

We could do 2 scans each again for 5 people (there will be 11 people alive to scan). Personally, I'd leave RendeR out altogether

I'd say all of us with 1 scan on us (note: myself included!) and the someone from the set of 2's

[Pumpy Tudors]

Yes, please scan me so you can all see my studentitude.

I just wanted to use that word I just made up.

[SnDvls]

it'd be nice to get some scan info layed out as the weekend is quicly approaching

[path12]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Hey Path, what's the plan for the weekend. I know I 100% won't be around. I have my grandmothers wake on Saturday and my sons 1st birthday on Sunday, so any slim chance I'd have of making it online anyhow is officially nil.

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Sorry to hear about your grandmother, but 1st b'day parties are awesome! Have fun!!!!

Path, my availability is totally dependant on the weather...my son has a soccer tournament schedule but it's been raining for about 24 hours and isn't supposed to stop until sometime tomorrow so there is a good chance it's going to be rained out. I'm fine with an extended day 6 (I think 6 - you didn't update the thread title) and a deadline on Sunday evening...

Yeah, I'm having more problems getting a good signal than I thought. What I'm thinking is the lynch deadline stays at 9PM EST tonight, extending the night deadline to say 9PM EST Saturday, and then an extended next day with a Monday night deadline. That, I believe should work for everyone, if not let me know and I'll revise tonight (I don't expect to be back online until around lynchtime). Hopefully this won't bog things down too badly and allow everyone to get moves in.

[jeheinz72]

That schedule would be fantastic for me, personally.

[Barkeep49]

That schedule works for me.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

BK - you seem to have figured out Ketchup Boy's logic, would you be OK setting up the scans for tonight? At least then we aren't giving over total power to Heinz...would everyone be ok with that?

I'd be fine with that, if others like the idea.