WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN - Page 36

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:06 PM

Exactly, J.

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:08 PM

I'm going to be out running errands most of the day, and then the FLYERS season opens tonight, so I'll be MIA during that watching the game. I might want to decide who to vote for fairly early here, will do my best to check in later but it might be via phone and could be tough to read the presumed loads of info.

dubb93 · 10-06-2011, 12:11 PM

I suspect that with the exorcist still around that means one of three things.

1. There isn't really an exorcist in the game. Unlikely.

2. The wolves are happy with their items that stop exorcisms and as such not worried about him in the slightest.

3. Prehaps they only started with 2 major roles that were able to kill them. They lost NtN on N1 and Zinto was too busy converting to bother with killing him. Now it makes me wonder if they even have anyone left that is able to kill him.

SnDvls · 10-06-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I don't think it needs to focus in to any voting reasoning at this point.

agreed, but I don't want people to also get away with trying to hide that there/is only one side and we lose sight of that too.

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

All we are basing any of this speculation on is that Abe said all wolves may or may not be able to PM with each other. Which suggests there is the option for a lone wolf role, at the least. But if that role is even in the game, we don't know if they know who the other wolves are, or if the wolves know who they are but can't PM .. it's all speculation. I don't think it needs to focus in to any voting reasoning at this point.

I'm going on the probability there is one team that can do one kill and one convert each night, with the convert part dropping off at some point. Who knows, there might be some role(s) with a one time kill attached too.

The PM part is likely for someone who gets converted and can be converted back. That person might get to receive PM through the GM or something like that. You cant let someone know who all the wolves are if they can get converted back. That could also be part of the possession mechanic.

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:17 PM

I'm going to go ahead and vote bug for now.

Vote MrBug708

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I suspect that with the exorcist still around that means one of three things.

1. There isn't really an exorcist in the game. Unlikely.

2. The wolves are happy with their items that stop exorcisms and as such not worried about him in the slightest.

3. Prehaps they only started with 2 major roles that were able to kill them. They lost NtN on N1 and Zinto was too busy converting to bother with killing him. Now it makes me wonder if they even have anyone left that is able to kill him.

I too find it odd the Exorcist has been left alone by the wolves. As far as being able to kill him, I did not see anything in the exorcist role description that indicated a regular night kill would not work. It looks like he does have defense against being converted.

EagleFan · 10-06-2011, 12:24 PM

Place holder vote.

vote mrbug

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:26 PM

Okay, the Exorcist description did say you are immune to attacks from minor undead.

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:35 PM

Going to keep things close for now, I am also feeling that possible convert vib from RA.

VOTE RA

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:35 PM

Vibe, too.

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

In order to win, the Lightbringers must kill every Servant of the Red Death. The Servants must have more than the # of Lightbringers (instead of the usual 1:1 ratio), and they must kill or convert every Exorcist and Minister as well. If, at the end of the game, there is one Servant and one Lightbringer left, a special rule will occur to see who wins based on roles. Lightbringers are no chumps.

There are many items in this game, and every player will begin with a random item, even Servants. The only person who brings items into the game, however, is the Scientist. Each night, once, you may pass an item to a person of your choice, just pm me and let me know. This is processed when Night Actions are processed, but it does not count as a Night Action. Items are passed as the last thing during the evening. Items on a dead person are collected by the Servants.

Some items are obvious – Charms of Protection Against Shapeshifters or Colt Peacemaker. Other items have unknown or more nefarious uses, and you may not immediately know what they all do. There might even be red herrings

Not all Servants may be able to pm each other. There are no hidden Lightbringer roles beyond the Exorcized. There may be more than one of each role. When they are killed, Servants of the Red Death will have both their title and their role and abilities posted in the thread. You are experienced enough that you know what a creature is and all about it.

Okay, the win conditions for the servants requires them to kill / convert every minister and exorcist. That means it would be very important to deal with ministers and exorcists.

Also, the first paragraph kind of contradicts itself. It says the servants must have more than the # of lightbringers. Then goes on to say if there is one of each left there is a special rule. Why, that would be a 1:1 ratio and equal a lightbringer victory, right?

I thing with Dzilla still around, it is very suspicious.

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:42 PM

Well, dzilla can't be converted. Are you saying you think he was lying about being an exorcist?

The Jackal · 10-06-2011, 12:46 PM

I tend to think its more likely the wolves avoided him because they assumed the sheriff would be guarding him, but it's worth keeping in mind, especially since another exorcist wouldn't counter reveal because they have no way of knowing if he is lying or not with the potential for multiple exorcist roles in the game.

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:49 PM

He may be lying?? But they have to kill him to win the game. The role description looks like he can't be converted and minor undead cannot kill him. I think that role makes him a critical kill for the wolves.

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 12:57 PM

Another question. If the Minister and Exorcist are immune to corruption, why does the win conditions specify the servants must kill or convert every Exorcist and Minister? If they are immune to corruption, wouldn't it just say kill?

MrBug708 · 10-06-2011, 12:59 PM

Saving space typing it out?

Abe Sargent · 10-06-2011, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Okay, the win conditions for the servants requires them to kill / convert every minister and exorcist. That means it would be very important to deal with ministers and exorcists.

Also, the first paragraph kind of contradicts itself. It says the servants must have more than the # of lightbringers. Then goes on to say if there is one of each left there is a special rule. Why, that would be a 1:1 ratio and equal a lightbringer victory, right?

I thing with Dzilla still around, it is very suspicious.

If, at the end, there are 7:7 ratio, the the Servants have to go to 7:6 to win. However, suppose it's at 2:1 Village. The Village must kill ALL Servants to win, so they have to keep playing, but the Servants can't win, because they can;t get more than the One they have left, so the Servants still has a changce by taking it to 1:1 and use a special tiebreaker rule.

dubb93 · 10-06-2011, 01:28 PM

Vote CF

I think he is the D1 convert.

mauchow · 10-06-2011, 01:28 PM

Hmmm. I didnt catch the poossibility that exorcist can't be converted.

Abe Sargent · 10-06-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Another question. If the Minister and Exorcist are immune to corruption, why does the win conditions specify the servants must kill or convert every Exorcist and Minister? If they are immune to corruption, wouldn't it just say kill?

An excellent question

Commo_Soldier · 10-06-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

All we are basing any of this speculation on is that Abe said all wolves may or may not be able to PM with each other. Which suggests there is the option for a lone wolf role, at the least. But if that role is even in the game, we don't know if they know who the other wolves are, or if the wolves know who they are but can't PM .. it's all speculation. I don't think it needs to focus in to any voting reasoning at this point.

Just my thoughts, some one my have already stated this, but I think there are only two wolf trans in the sense original wolves pm original wolves and converts no pms so if they are exorcised they can't finger any wolves.

Chief Rum · 10-06-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

An excellent question

VOTE ABE SARGENT

Commo_Soldier · 10-06-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Well, dzilla can't be converted. Are you saying you think he was lying about being an exorcist?

I think this could be possible, have a hard time believing we hit three roled villagers on the same day. I think we can wait a day or two on him though.

Commo_Soldier · 10-06-2011, 02:14 PM

Dola, anyone have a vote count?

Grammaticus · 10-06-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus View Post
Another question. If the Minister and Exorcist are immune to corruption, why does the win conditions specify the servants must kill or convert every Exorcist and Minister? If they are immune to corruption, wouldn't it just say kill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

An excellent question

Devious

dubb93 · 10-06-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Just my thoughts, some one my have already stated this, but I think there are only two wolf trans in the sense original wolves pm original wolves and converts no pms so if they are exorcised they can't finger any wolves.

I'm not real sure what you are saying here but if you are saying converts don't have PM rights that is unlikely. If is far more likely that there was one rogue wolf with his own victory condition at the start but I think that is unlikely as well.

I think Abe was baiting you with the vague rules and you have fallen hook line and sinker.

FWIW it didn't work the way you laid out last time around either.

Narcizo · 10-06-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I suspect that with the exorcist still around that means one of three things.

1. There isn't really an exorcist in the game. Unlikely.

2. The wolves are happy with their items that stop exorcisms and as such not worried about him in the slightest.

3. Prehaps they only started with 2 major roles that were able to kill them. They lost NtN on N1 and Zinto was too busy converting to bother with killing him. Now it makes me wonder if they even have anyone left that is able to kill him.

4. They were worried he would be protected, took out the Minister on night two and got pissed off with Danny so took him out night three. If the attacks have all been carried out by a werewolf then they have to be worried that the sheriff will block a kill-attempt and kill the werewolf at the same time.

If 3 is true then I don't see how the bad guys can win, unless they get hold of an item or something to do it or have some other means of conversion to create a role that can kill the guy.

Commo_Soldier · 10-06-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm not real sure what you are saying here but if you are saying converts don't have PM rights that is unlikely. If is far more likely that there was one rogue wolf with his own victory condition at the start but I think that is unlikely as well.

I think Abe was baiting you with the vague rules and you have fallen hook line and sinker.

FWIW it didn't work the way you laid out last time around either.

I realize you were a wolf last game and have that insight, but because there was a last game I'd have to believe Abe changed things up just to screw people up who think everything will be the same.

Narcizo · 10-06-2011, 02:28 PM

As of 1778

Bug (4) - Commo (1678), dzilla (1701), Grammaticus (1756), EagleFan (1758)
Raiders Army (3) - Thomkal (1708), Autumn (1725), Jackal (1760)
Chief Rum (1) - Narcizo (1718)
CrimsonFox (1) - Dubb (1769)
Abe Sargent (1) - Chief Rum (173)

MrBug708 · 10-06-2011, 02:32 PM

Im almost curious to see what would happen if we all voted fro Abe. Probably nothing but vengeance and the wolves would get a free night action

Narcizo · 10-06-2011, 02:34 PM

I'll probably move my vote over to Bug if no-one moves to Chief in the next hour or so. I'm really not feeling the "Raiders being day one convert" vib. And I'm not a fan of vague semi-reveals as a rule.

Narcizo · 10-06-2011, 02:35 PM

Or go with Abe.

hoopsguy · 10-06-2011, 02:38 PM

Hmm, I'm actually thinking of going back to an earlier vote target of Narcizo's - EagleFan.

I know his schedule is stressed - dealing with same issues here - but I can't think of anything that he has done off the top of my head that would be pro-village.

I want Bug in that runoff to see if anything pops, but I'm less excited about the other candidates I've seen listed so far.

If someone wants to convince me that this is a weak/bad vote, I'll probably be an easy sell. But for now ...

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Thomkal · 10-06-2011, 02:39 PM

I would agree with those saying it doesn't really matter if there are two teams or not at this point-we have to lynch all of them anyway.

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:44 PM

mornin chillins!

MrBug708 · 10-06-2011, 02:47 PM

Now the day can start

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzilla77

OK, all caught up on the night actions.

I exorcised CF last night - no effect. Doesn't mean he's good, just that he's not possessed.

Was it good for you too?

_I_ certainly feel April fresh from the experience.

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:51 PM

I typically would still be sleeping but some extremely bad stomach cramps woke me up. One bathroom trip later...

Autumn · 10-06-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Was it good for you too?

_I_ certainly feel April fresh from the experience.

CF, did you get any notice of anything happening to you?

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:52 PM

I want to go back to where I was yesterday.

vote bug

Autumn · 10-06-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I typically would still be sleeping but some extremely bad stomach cramps woke me up. One bathroom trip later...

... and you've been exorcised of some foul spirits!

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

CF, did you get any notice of anything happening to you?

When I was exorcised? No. No messages at all, nor no items. I want items dangit!

Thomkal · 10-06-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I typically would still be sleeping but some extremely bad stomach cramps woke me up. One bathroom trip later...

That was just how the Exorcism works

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

... and you've been exorcised of some foul spirits!

I guess someone is going to post the James Woods on the toilet in Scary Movie again, aren't they....the "Begone Foul Spirits!" scene.

MrBug708 · 10-06-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I want to go back to where I was yesterday.

vote bug

But why

It's obvious that Danny's death was used to set me up

dubb93 · 10-06-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I realize you were a wolf last game and have that insight, but because there was a last game I'd have to believe Abe changed things up just to screw people up who think everything will be the same.

I don't mean to come across as all knowing but so far the posted PM's for the wolves roles, especially Zinto, have been nearly identical. I believe you are right in that some things are different. From everything I have seen from the items in play that I know about to the private roles of the wolves that have been posted, the big things are extremely similar. Again I could be wrong here, but everything I have seen so far suggests I am not.

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Figured I would pull up the dead bad guy descriptions together. My initial takeaway from this is that NTN was not a vampire. Zinto was explicitly listed as a vampire, NTN was not. The death descriptions, going from memory did not allude to NTN as a vampire but did call out Zinto as one (you know how to deal with his kind, or something to that effect). No idea how the Servants may operate, but I think there is enough here to suggest two bad guy teams.

you mean humans and nonhumans? it's possible. I still have no knowledge of how things worked previously but yes it's obvious to me ntn was not a vamp.
I still like the "one wolf doesn't know the rest theory" too.

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Can't a guy just randomly trust another participant in a game of werewolf?

so are you saying you just trust jackal because he's a nice guy and you're not the seer? Speak up man!

CrimsonFox · 10-06-2011, 03:14 PM

*sigh* my stomach demons have not finished with me

Be back off and on.

10-06-2011, 12:24 PM	#1758
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Place holder vote. vote mrbug __________________ The EagleFan YouTube Channel - Reactions Soarin' & Scratchin' YouTube Channel - We react to music, videos, TV, we talk, we are planning some field trips Soarin' & Soothin' - Meditation, Relaxation, and Sleep Aid; mental health is important

10-06-2011, 02:14 PM	#1775
Commo_Soldier College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: JBLM, WA	Dola, anyone have a vote count? __________________ I killed a wolf and I liked it.

10-06-2011, 12:06 PM	#1751
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Exactly, J.

10-06-2011, 12:08 PM	#1752
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I'm going to be out running errands most of the day, and then the FLYERS season opens tonight, so I'll be MIA during that watching the game. I might want to decide who to vote for fairly early here, will do my best to check in later but it might be via phone and could be tough to read the presumed loads of info.

10-06-2011, 12:17 PM	#1756
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	I'm going to go ahead and vote bug for now. Vote MrBug708

10-06-2011, 12:26 PM	#1759
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Okay, the Exorcist description did say you are immune to attacks from minor undead.

10-06-2011, 12:35 PM	#1760
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Going to keep things close for now, I am also feeling that possible convert vib from RA. VOTE RA

10-06-2011, 12:35 PM	#1761
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Vibe, too.

10-06-2011, 12:42 PM	#1763
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	Well, dzilla can't be converted. Are you saying you think he was lying about being an exorcist?

10-06-2011, 12:46 PM	#1764
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I tend to think its more likely the wolves avoided him because they assumed the sheriff would be guarding him, but it's worth keeping in mind, especially since another exorcist wouldn't counter reveal because they have no way of knowing if he is lying or not with the potential for multiple exorcist roles in the game.

10-06-2011, 12:49 PM	#1765
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	He may be lying?? But they have to kill him to win the game. The role description looks like he can't be converted and minor undead cannot kill him. I think that role makes him a critical kill for the wolves.

10-06-2011, 12:57 PM	#1766
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Another question. If the Minister and Exorcist are immune to corruption, why does the win conditions specify the servants must kill or convert every Exorcist and Minister? If they are immune to corruption, wouldn't it just say kill?

10-06-2011, 12:59 PM	#1767
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Saving space typing it out?

10-06-2011, 01:28 PM	#1770
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Hmmm. I didnt catch the poossibility that exorcist can't be converted.

10-06-2011, 02:28 PM	#1780
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	As of 1778 Bug (4) - Commo (1678), dzilla (1701), Grammaticus (1756), EagleFan (1758) Raiders Army (3) - Thomkal (1708), Autumn (1725), Jackal (1760) Chief Rum (1) - Narcizo (1718) CrimsonFox (1) - Dubb (1769) Abe Sargent (1) - Chief Rum (173)

10-06-2011, 02:32 PM	#1781
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Im almost curious to see what would happen if we all voted fro Abe. Probably nothing but vengeance and the wolves would get a free night action

10-06-2011, 02:34 PM	#1782
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	I'll probably move my vote over to Bug if no-one moves to Chief in the next hour or so. I'm really not feeling the "Raiders being day one convert" vib. And I'm not a fan of vague semi-reveals as a rule.

10-06-2011, 02:35 PM	#1783
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Or go with Abe.

10-06-2011, 02:38 PM	#1784
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Hmm, I'm actually thinking of going back to an earlier vote target of Narcizo's - EagleFan. I know his schedule is stressed - dealing with same issues here - but I can't think of anything that he has done off the top of my head that would be pro-village. I want Bug in that runoff to see if anything pops, but I'm less excited about the other candidates I've seen listed so far. If someone wants to convince me that this is a weak/bad vote, I'll probably be an easy sell. But for now ... VOTE EAGLEFAN

10-06-2011, 02:39 PM	#1785
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	I would agree with those saying it doesn't really matter if there are two teams or not at this point-we have to lynch all of them anyway.

10-06-2011, 02:44 PM	#1786
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	mornin chillins!

10-06-2011, 02:47 PM	#1787
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Now the day can start

10-06-2011, 02:51 PM	#1789
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	I typically would still be sleeping but some extremely bad stomach cramps woke me up. One bathroom trip later...

10-06-2011, 02:52 PM	#1791
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	I want to go back to where I was yesterday. vote bug

10-06-2011, 03:14 PM	#1800
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	sigh my stomach demons have not finished with me Be back off and on.

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