WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36

[Lathum]

I could care less about prolonging the game, this move makes no sense to me

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I thought you didn't care one way or the other if either you or I was killed tonight. I guess you changed your mind once I agreed.

I trust twothree to make the correct decision. What concerns me more is that Chief gets a good block. My worry is that whoever the replicant(s) left are, they're looking more for Tyrell than anything else at this point.

At the same time, we can't afford to lose either our BG or seer/assassin.

It's a tough call for both of them. I think the natural argument comes down to either you or I being the target tonight. I'm fine with that as long as the humans end up winning.

I don't think you read my post too closely. I went through all the data, and came to the conclusion that him not making a kill tonight doesn't really help or hurt the chance of us winning.

Facts remain.. if there is only 1 wolf left, we should win either way. If there are two wolves left, then they will win either with the wrong kill tonight or the wrong lynch tommorrow. Simply put.

So, I have no issues with him putting a kill out tonight and if I was in his shoes I would aim for either me or you. I just know if you and Lathum are both wolves, then him killing me wins the game for you all. Thats all.

[Alan T]

Dola, just so its clear.. Even if he doesn't make a kill tonight, the same wrong move tommorrow also ends the game if there are two wolves left. So either way, the only way I don't see the game ending tonight or tommorrow is if there is only one wolf left and its neither.path/me.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I could care less about prolonging the game, this move makes no sense to me

When the game is over, I will be happy to quote my previous message and list my reasons.

[twothree]

Oh, and since I see Chief Rum in the thread. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

[Alan T]

Twothree, even though I hate to do it, I have to side with Lathum some on this...

Even if it means killing me, if you are a good villager, I think you have to take the chance to kill tonight.

If there is only one wolf left, and Path or I are the wolf, and you guess wrong, just lynch the other tommorrow and win the game.

If there is only one wolf left, and Lathum is the wolf, then you guess wrong tonight, lynch wrong tommorrow, you could lose unless the bodyguard has a lucky block either tonight or tommorrow night.

If there are two wolves left, and you guess wrong tonight, we lose.

If there are two wolves left and you dont kill tonight, and the lynch tommorrow is wrong, we lose.


The only reason I can see to not kill tonight is if you are afraid there is only 1 wolf left, and its not Path or myself. Then you could arguably have another scan to make a decision the final day lynch when its 2-1. However I would guess that you won't be alive long enough to do so unless we get real lucky.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by twothree

Oh, and since I see Chief Rum in the thread. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

No problem. Hope they helped.

It's an interesting decision to not use your kill, but I will respect that you have your reasons.

I, of course, will be out there guarding someone.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Twothree, even though I hate to do it, I have to side with Lathum some on this...

.

why?

[path12]

Originally Posted by twothree

When the game is over, I will be happy to quote my previous message and list my reasons.

I'll be interested to see them. I think I would take a shot, so to speak.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

why?

I'll just say I hope Path is the last wolf, otherwise its going to be messy.

[twothree]

Sorry guys. No kill attempt from me tonight.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'll just say I hope Path is the last wolf, otherwise its going to be messy.

I can't wait to watch the vote tomorrow, even if I am dead. (Unless, the wolves win tonight, of course.)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by twothree

Sorry guys. No kill attempt from me tonight.

I don't get it but it's your dime.

Why wouldn't you kill the person you're gonna vote for tomorrow?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't think you read my post too closely. I went through all the data, and came to the conclusion that him not making a kill tonight doesn't really help or hurt the chance of us winning.

I didn't read it all that closely, I admit.

It's more that one of my very favorite things about both you and Lathum is that you never, ever give up pleading your case, even in the event such as one now where it appears to be 50/50 you and I. I admire your guys style.

I'm going to toss out one idea that just popped in my head in case I'm killed tonight, whether by twothree or the replicants (that seems like a longshot). I haven't researched this carefully, but will tomorrow if I am around.

Let's posit that twothree is a seer, but he is Priss instead of Deckard. And furthermore, let's say that he found out early in the game that we either killed or sent the original bodyguard to Mars, as well as Deckard. And then let's posit further that he was able to take that knowledge and pass on to one of his fellows (let's call him Chief) that the bodyguard was dead. So Chief claims bodyguard, twothree claims Deckard, and we all follow them to our deaths.

That would be a bold play indeed. There may be some holes, but when I or Alan come up human, it might seem a little more possible. I'm starting to think that Alan and I might both be good.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'll just say I hope Path is the last wolf, otherwise its going to be messy.

Prepare for a mess then. I'm vanilla as a bean, as the saying goes.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why wouldn't you kill the person you're gonna vote for tomorrow?

Because, I haven't decided who I will vote for tomorrow. I need to see what happens tonight and what happens tomorrow before the vote.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

I didn't read it all that closely, I admit.

It's more that one of my very favorite things about both you and Lathum is that you never, ever give up pleading your case, even in the event such as one now where it appears to be 50/50 you and I. I admire your guys style.

I'm going to toss out one idea that just popped in my head in case I'm killed tonight, whether by twothree or the replicants (that seems like a longshot). I haven't researched this carefully, but will tomorrow if I am around.

Let's posit that twothree is a seer, but he is Priss instead of Deckard. And furthermore, let's say that he found out early in the game that we either killed or sent the original bodyguard to Mars, as well as Deckard. And then let's posit further that he was able to take that knowledge and pass on to one of his fellows (let's call him Chief) that the bodyguard was dead. So Chief claims bodyguard, twothree claims Deckard, and we all follow them to our deaths.

That would be a bold play indeed. There may be some holes, but when I or Alan come up human, it might seem a little more possible. I'm starting to think that Alan and I might both be good.

Interesting theory. Only problem with that is that it is indisputable twothree was attacked and put in the hospital, but not killed. If what you say is true, only wolves would be left to attack. And why would they attack twothree if he was one of them? And would you buy that the wolves have such a degree of attack ability that can specify to put twothree in the hospital instead of killing him?

And that doesn't even get into the problems with me not being a BG, which a number of people have given a crack at, and all pretty much acknowledge I have to be who I say I am.

If twothree and I pulled that off, frankly everyone should just bow to us right now. I know I'm not that good.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by path12

I'm starting to think that Alan and I might both be good.

I haven't seen any evidence that anyone left in the game is a wolf, so you may be right.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

/waves back

Hey, you should sign up for my game.

Thanks for the offer, but I prefer hard/complex werewolf games.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by twothree

Thanks for the offer, but I prefer hard/complex werewolf games.

I <3 twothree.

[tanglewood]

This morning the news is shocking. Not only has another person been faound killed in his home, Lathum, but next to him was lying a seemingly dead man aswell. Only, upon further testing it appeared that the second body had suffered no injuries at all, no broken bones and all major organs were in good health. However, after being taken to the cities new high-tech research lab funded by our generous friends at the Tyrell Corporation it was discovered that the second body was a replicant. He had presumabley expired mere moments after making his final kill, the killswitch finally taking its fatal toll after being turned on a few days previous. In his hand the replicant clutched a note:

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

~ path12

Humans Win!

Write up coming shortly.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If twothree and I pulled that off, frankly everyone should just bow to us right now. I know I'm not that good.

You underestimate yourself. Like I said, it was just something that popped into my head. I'm just grasping at straws at this point, because frankly I don't know what the hell is going on.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by twothree

When the game is over, I will be happy to quote my previous message and list my reasons.

Ok, so explain

[path12]

Dola, nevermind.

I knew my only chance was to find Tyrell even though I was almost certain he was gone -- that's why I went for my last three kills. I figured last night the only shot was between Lathum, Alan and Telle and chose Lathum.

Oh well. Good game, guys and thanks to Tangle for running it.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

Dola, nevermind.

I knew my only chance was to find Tyrell even though I was almost certain he was gone -- that's why I went for my last three kills. I figured last night the only shot was between Lathum, Alan and Telle and chose Lathum.

Oh well. Good game, guys and thanks to Tangle for running it.

So that explains you unending distrust of Lathum. I couldn't figure out why you just couldn't see that he was a good guy.

[Alan T]

So I dont understand.. the replicants seem like they were going to run out of time well before getting to a 1:1 ratio. What triggered the killswitch being turned on? Was it DT's death?

So who were the replicants?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Telle

So that explains you unending distrust of Lathum. I couldn't figure out why you just couldn't see that he was a good guy.

Sew fear, confusion and doubt. A fun way to play as a wolf. You did very well for your first game, BTW. I hope you keep playing.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Telle

So that explains you unending distrust of Lathum. I couldn't figure out why you just couldn't see that he was a good guy.

Path generaly has an unending distrust of me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

You did very well for your first game, BTW. I hope you keep playing.

+1

[RendeR]

I'm betting this:

Priss: Ardent
Leon: barkeep
Roy: Path

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So I dont understand.. the replicants seem like they were going to run out of time well before getting to a 1:1 ratio. What triggered the killswitch being turned on? Was it DT's death?

So who were the replicants?

I didn't know about it originally (had missed that in the rules). My kill a couple days ago the PM stated that I was starting to feel weaker, so I then knew I wouldn't have time to get to a 1:1.

Barkeep was Leon and bulletsponge was Priss.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

Sew fear, confusion and doubt. A fun way to play as a wolf. You did very well for your first game, BTW. I hope you keep playing.

Thanks. I really enjoyed it.. even if the game got a bit frustrating at times!

[Lathum]

dola- Thanks to Tanglewood for running the game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Path generaly has an unending distrust of me.

That's what happens when you're such a sneaky wolf.

[Lathum]

bulletsponge? I never saw that one.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Telle

Ok, so explain

My reason was the killswitch victory condition, I was surprised no one either remember it or didn't want to bring it up. I assumed the wolf(s) knew about it. I didn't think it would kick in this turn, however. My guess was that we would still need to get through another day and night. Therefore having 2 people killed last night instead of one, might give the wolves a better chance at winning in there were still 2 of them left. However, not killing anyone left 5 people and what I saw as a better chance of voting off a wolf (if there were still 2 left).

My secret was only that I would be online all day today, since I don't have to work today. Therefore I would be able to change my vote if needed as the deadline approach, something I have not been able to do on all previous days.

[Lathum]

We got lucky getting Bulletsponge day 2, it's not often you get a wolf that early on without a trade.

[Alan T]

Wow.. I never figured bulletsponge was one...

I'm curious then about the swaggs : Ardent similar pm thing. was it done intentionally to remind us that its a bad idea to share pms, or was it a mistake or what?


About the killswitch.. I guess i didn't fully understand what it did, probably because my entire last week was so hectic at times, that I didn't pay close enough attention that I normally should. I didn't even think about that being a possible game ender.

[Lathum]

I'm curious why Cronin came out as early as he did when he was in no real danger

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

bulletsponge? I never saw that one.

We never got to use him. That really hurt us.

[RendeR]

Wow, bullet tried the hiding in plain sight gambit eh? it backfired pretty badly for the replicants this time, he was their seer and that cost them huge.

[path12]

BTW, the mixup on Cronin's death was that I was going to kill him, but he went to Barkeep that night to test him. That's why two people were seen.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm curious why Cronin came out as early as he did when he was in no real danger

I didn't "come out." The conversation at the time was Swaggs claiming that he must have been scanned. Among my assumptions at the time was that either Swaggs or ardent was a replicant, so I wanted them both lynched. My main purpose was to point out that Swaggs hadn't been scanned. Secondary purpose was to begin to build a public cot between the people I scanned, and the people Deckard scanned. That was supposed to be a gradual process, necessarily hurried along when Telle came blasting at me.

[Alan T]

I think its interesting that Barkeep helped kill their seer in a game where roles aren't reveled at death, thus not really buying barkeep any trust for that move.

It seems to me that since I took so much heat on day 2, you should have used my voting for BS to move off of him to save him

[RendeR]

Very well done game Tanglewood, you built the bladerunner universe very nicely and didn't give too much information away which would have taken much of the suspense out of it.

Kudos to you.

[hoopsguy]

I understood the idea of buying trust early by pushing against Bullet, but you were never able to leverage that with Barkeep later in the game. Add that to the no reveals on death and with hindsight it is pretty easy to suggest that was a losing gambit for the replicants.

I also found it interesting the level of certainty that people had later in the game in terms of trust lists. In a no reveal game, I was surprised that the replicants found themselves in that position.

Did the wolves victory condition of eliminating Tyrell and Sebastian go by the wayside if one of them was sent to Mars?

[RendeR]

So the big name humans were:

DaddyTorgo: Tyrell??
Jonathan Ezarik: Sebastian

[Telle]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I didn't "come out." The conversation at the time was Swaggs claiming that he must have been scanned. Among my assumptions at the time was that either Swaggs or ardent was a replicant, so I wanted them both lynched. My main purpose was to point out that Swaggs hadn't been scanned. Secondary purpose was to begin to build a public cot between the people I scanned, and the people Deckard scanned. That was supposed to be a gradual process, necessarily hurried along when Telle came blasting at me.

Sorry about that

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I understood the idea of buying trust early by pushing against Bullet, but you were never able to leverage that with Barkeep later in the game. Add that to the no reveals on death and with hindsight it is pretty easy to suggest that was a losing gambit for the replicants.

I also found it interesting the level of certainty that people had later in the game in terms of trust lists. In a no reveal game, I was surprised that the replicants found themselves in that position.

Did the wolves victory condition of eliminating Tyrell and Sebastian go by the wayside if one of them was sent to Mars?

That was my opinion very early on, that Tyrell == DT and that the wolves were already screwed in the long haul. Add that to the unknown fact that they had lost Priss on day 2 and they really had little to no chance here.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Telle

Sorry about that

My only criticism of your play was that you should have realized, given the details I provided, that I had been scanned (if you didn't think I was Holden/Deckard). Realizing that, you should have waited to see if anybody else said anything.

- my $.02