The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pretty much.

I'm having a hard time understanding the scenario... Mueller is a life-long Republican, just from what i've seen every job he's held was basically an appointment via a Republican President, and is being attacked by the Republicans for being biased against the Republican President?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I'm having a hard time understanding the scenario... Mueller is a life-long Republican, just from what i've seen every job he's held was basically an appointment via a Republican President, and is being attacked by the Republicans for being biased against the Republican President?

Unfortunately, you got it.

[tarcone]

I get the process and what is happening, Wouldnt it be better for the dems to wait until he is out of office and go after him? Sure, the house will vote to impeach because the dems control it, but the senate wont.

Waste of time and money.

Wonder if this congress will do anything substantial to help us.

Have there been any significant bills passed or even drawn up?

This country is a mess. When do the huddled masses step up and ask the government to fix this country? Or do we just let corporations run us over until this country turns into the movie Brazil or 1984?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I get the process and what is happening, Wouldnt it be better for the dems to wait until he is out of office and go after him? Sure, the house will vote to impeach because the dems control it, but the senate wont.

Waste of time and money.

Wonder if this congress will do anything substantial to help us.

Have there been any significant bills passed or even drawn up?

This country is a mess. When do the huddled masses step up and ask the government to fix this country? Or do we just let corporations run us over until this country turns into the movie Brazil or 1984?

The House has passed a lot of bills. For example they recently passed a bill for a $15 minimum wage.

However they don't get a lot of buzz because the media would rather focus on Trump's latest tweet.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The House has passed a lot of bills. For example they recently passed a bill for a $15 minimum wage.

However they don't get a lot of buzz because the media would rather focus on Trump's latest tweet.

Yet won't ever see the light of day in the Senate. 🤷‍♂️

[JPhillips]

SCHIFF: “Trump and his campaign welcomed and encouraged Russian interference?”

MUELLER: “Yes.”

SCHIFF: “And then Trump and his campaign lied about it to cover it up?”

MUELLER: “Yes.”

That's it right there.

[Atocep]

This is actually depressing to follow.

We know (or can clearly gather from testimony) that a lifetime republican that was cheered by fellow Republicans for being the person chosen to lead the investigation into Trump believes Trump should be impeached and indicted.

His campaign encouraged foreign interference in our election and rewarded Russia for helping him win.

Trump was actively requesting people in his administration lie to and mislead Mueller.

Trump knows he very well could be indicted if he loses in 2020 so the incentive to seek foreign influence is far greater this time around and the country's hopes in stopping that influence sit with Mitch McConnell.

Don Jr is very likely still under investigation based on Mueller's reluctance to talk about him.

We have a felon that at least indirectly coordinated with foreign governments to win an election and we don't seem to be in any rush to impeach and 40% of the country don't give a shit because liberals are the monster under their beds that they fear.

[NobodyHere]

Yeah, the democrats need to impeach and force Republicans to defend this garbage.

[sabotai]

I don't think Ken Buck expected this answer

The video of another key moment:

Buck: "Could you charge the president with a crime after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Buck: "You believe that you could charge the president of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."
Via ABC pic.twitter.com/REBbQsSMYl

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 24, 2019

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I'm having a hard time understanding the scenario... Mueller is a life-long Republican, just from what i've seen every job he's held was basically an appointment via a Republican President, and is being attacked by the Republicans for being biased against the Republican President?

Facts don't matter. The narrative shifted among right wing media during the investigation that every single investigator, including and especially Mueller, are Democrats with an agenda. That's now the republican line on this.

[Lathum]

FOX NMews currently covering the Puerto Rico situation, including airing parts of an interview with the governor from Monday. Yet today was a big win for Trump.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Radii

Facts don't matter. The narrative shifted among right wing media during the investigation that every single investigator, including and especially Mueller, are Democrats with an agenda. That's now the republican line on this.

It was very obvious early on this was going to be their tactic today.

Is there anyone, outside of Trump, more despicable than Jim Jordan?

All today did was prove how fucked we are as a country. I refuse to believe anyone outside of extremely stupid people watched the first part of his testimony and didn't conclude Trump obstructed justice. Yet FOX news will spin it and brainwash their viewers he didn't, and Trumpers won't care regardless.

We truly are screwed.

[bob]

So now Dems hem and haw and then don’t impeach, right?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Is there anyone, outside of Trump, more despicable than Jim Jordan?

Unfortunately, I'm not sure he cracks the top 5 out of the current GOP. I mean McConnell, Steve King, and Nunes are easily worse. You also have Trump. So Jordan, at best, would be fight with someone like Matt Gaetz or Lindsey Graham to make the top 5.

[molson]

Originally Posted by bob

So now Dems hem and haw and then don’t impeach, right?

They don't want to alienate the white supremacist voters they're hoping to win over next November.

[tarcone]

I think white supremacist is harsh and unwarranted. I would say pro-white. And is there really an issue with this? What is the most attacked person in the country today? White males.

Call me what you want after that statement, but I stick by it. I am either a white supremacist nor a sexist. But, damn, you cant put a race and/or gender down and expect equality or equity. Especially if they are the ruling class.

Is Trump a mess? Ah, yes. But trying to play his game is stupid, you wll lose.

Figure it out and he loses the 2020 election. Continue on this path and he wins easily.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

What is the most attacked person in the country today? White males.

Yeah, it's difficult being a white male today living in glorified concentration camps on the border, being singled out by cops on a daily basis, or attacked regularly because of your religion.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yeah, it's difficult being a white male today living in glorified concentration camps on the border, being singled out by cops on a daily basis, or attacked regularly because of your religion.

See, Im not saying any of those things happen. Im saying the narrative of the country is that all white males are white supremacists and racist.

Your response is exactly the problem. This is what Im talking about. And ask a white male christian about being attacked because of his religion.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

They don't want to alienate the white supremacist voters they're hoping to win over next November.

I was pretty anti-impeachment because we all know it is an exercise in futility, but after today and seeing peoples reactions I say go for it. Battle lines are drawn and no one is crossing sides. You either love Trump or you hate him. There is nothing that can happen that will change anyones mind. I would rather have them do the ethically correct thing at this time.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by tarcone

See, Im not saying any of those things happen. Im saying the narrative of the country is that all white males are white supremacists and racist.

Your response is exactly the problem. This is what Im talking about. And ask a white male christian about being attacked because of his religion.

I literally have never felt attacked as a 50 something white male, because I can interact with anyone with mutual respect. And if you feel attacked because of the musings of idiots on social media who also choose to but everyone in a box I don't know what to tell you.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by tarcone

See, Im not saying any of those things happen. Im saying the narrative of the country is that all white males are white supremacists and racist.

Your response is exactly the problem. This is what Im talking about. And ask a white male christian about being attacked because of his religion.

Yes, a plurality of white male Christians tend to have a persecution complex. As do GOP white males in general. The group with most of the county's assets and education feel picked because people are tired of bad Christians using the bible as a reason to take other people's rights away. The rest of the GOP is being grouped in as guilt by association. If they don't like it, maybe it's time to take their party back instead of kowtowing to Trump.

Trump made clearly racist comments to 4 members of congress and the primary group that didn't see the comments as racist were boomers. My mom and most of my family fall into that group. They have racist and bigoted tendencies and don't realize it. Therefore, because they feel they're not racists and are ok with Trump's statements then the statements must not have been racist. That's largely why we are where we are now. People refuse to acknowledge their racist and bigoted thoughts and behavior and feel that with Trump in office they can double down on it rather than keep quiet.

I've stated on here before that if the Dems lose an election because they alienate racists by calling them out then so be it. No one should keep quiet when others spread hate.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yes, a plurality of white male Christians tend to have a persecution complex. As do GOP white males in general. The group with most of the county's assets and education feel picked because people are tired of bad Christians using the bible as a reason to take other people's rights away. The rest of the GOP is being grouped in as guilt by association. If they don't like it, maybe it's time to take their party back instead of kowtowing to Trump.

Trump made clearly racist comments to 4 members of congress and the primary group that didn't see the comments as racist were boomers. My mom and most of my family fall into that group. They have racist and bigoted tendencies and don't realize it. Therefore, because they feel they're not racists and are ok with Trump's statements then the statements must not have been racist. That's largely why we are where we are now. People refuse to acknowledge their racist and bigoted thoughts and behavior and feel that with Trump in office they can double down on it rather than keep quiet.

I've stated on here before that if the Dems lose an election because they alienate racists by calling them out then so be it. No one should keep quiet when others spread hate.

BINGO!

Perception is reality.

I have no problems with anyone. Do I think people streaming into our country illegally is a problem? Yes, I do. Do I have a problem with Immigrants coming into our country following the procedures our country has put in place? Nope, I welcome you.

Does this make me racist? The dems think so.

And therein lies the problem.

Different perceptions of reality cause this divide.

Are those 4 female congresswomen being targeted unfairly by Trump? Yes. Is he pandering to the least common denominator? Yes. Is Trump pandering to his less educated base? Yes.

Does this make me, as a white male, feel attacked by the dems? Yes. Am I one of the least common denominators? No. But my percption is my reality. Right or wrong.

Do I feel like I will ever be stopped by the police for just driving? Nope, I feel pretty safe.

See the problem. I get what Trump is doing, and its wrong, but the dems are feeding right into it and alienating a group that might vote for them.

Say or feel what you want. Im a midwesterer is a rural area. I am surrounded by Trump supporters. And i get how they feel. I dont agree, but understand.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

See, Im not saying any of those things happen. Im saying the narrative of the country is that all white males are white supremacists and racist.

Your response is exactly the problem. This is what Im talking about. And ask a white male christian about being attacked because of his religion.

This is ludicrous. If you mean to say all white, Christian, Republican males are being characterized as white supremacists and racists than I might secede your point....but that is an entirely different point.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This is ludicrous. If you mean to say all white, Christian, Republican males are being characterized as white supremacists and racists than I might secede your point....but that is an entirely different point.

Well there are plenty of folks on the left that do think all Republicans are racist and white supremacists.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Say or feel what you want. Im a midwesterer is a rural area. I am surrounded by Trump supporters. And i get how they feel. I dont agree, but understand.

Consider that it's practically impossible to change those people's minds (and apparently yours) as long as they are getting any and all courting messages from the Democrats filtered entirely through a Republican propaganda machine.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Consider that it's practically impossible to change those people's minds (and apparently yours) as long as they are getting any and all courting messages from the Democrats filtered entirely through a Republican propaganda machine.

Yes. You are absolutely right.

And consider that all urban folks are getting their messages filterd through a Democrat propaganda machine.

And right now, the message being filtered plays into Trumps hands and not the dems. See the 2016 election. HRC had more votes but not in the right places.

See the issue?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This is ludicrous. If you mean to say all white, Christian, Republican males are being characterized as white supremacists and racists than I might secede your point....but that is an entirely different point.

Yeah, there are plenty of woke white males. But they live live in urban areas. Where their votes dont matter.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well there are plenty of folks on the left that do think all Republicans are racist and white supremacists.

Sure. At this point if someone casts a Republican presidential vote I definitely think they are actively and clearly supporting systemic racism. Right now the other Republican bogeymen seem to be free health care and uppity women, which aren't exactly convincing arguments for why a hardcore conservative would hold-their-noses to vote for 4 more years of watching Trump hump the defecit into the ground.

[thesloppy]

I guess there is the Republican presidential voter who strictly wants the Republicans to continue breaking the political and judicial system in favor of the Republican machine, but that seems like splitting hairs.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yeah, there are plenty of woke white males. But they live live in urban areas. Where their votes dont matter.

It's true. Thanks to Trump's economic policies the rural white males are also now collecting even more of the revenue that comes out of those urban areas while their own resources collect dust and teeter on collapse. So yay urban money goes to rural white dipshits whose votes have been weighted by the Republican machine while whispering in their ears that they aren't getting the proper respect from the ACTUAL folks that are collectively paying more than their share.

We agree those dipshits have been given too much power, we do not agree that catering both the Republican AND Democratic party to their every Fox-fed whim is some kind of solution.

[tarcone]

Im for a multi-party system. One that caters to the people. I hate that both parties have spend policies and no idea of how to regulate what they are doing.

If Im a millionaire I dont give a shit about cost. And think that no one else does.
Im in favor a balanced budget party and a flat tax party. Where is that?

I like Warrens forgive college debt, but why stop at 100k? My family is just over that thresh hold and these loans are going to kill my family. We are $130k and, unfortunatlely, we bought into the American dream of credit.

This is crippling to our family. But we wouldnt qualify.

Why does the Middle class get left out? Are they not the backbone of the country?

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Harambe

When you support a platform that was too racist for Ronald Reagan, what else is there to say? If the shoe fits, wear it.

This is a bad statement. There are conservatives that feel the dems spend money on the wrong things, that doesnt make them racist. But what is their alternative? So they get lumped into a bad category and feel disrespected and they vote against the party that they feel is the disrespect is coming from.

This country is f$#cked. We are going down a bad road. But it is a road big government and corporations want us to go .

Power to the people.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by tarcone

This is a bad statement. There are conservatives that feel the dems spend money on the wrong things, that doesnt make them racist. But what is their alternative?

Not actively vote an open racist accused of allowing foreign tampering and obstructing justice into the position of ultimate global power regardless of your feelings? It's easily done, through a variety of methods, or even none at all.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Not actively vote an open racist accused of allowing foreign tampering and obstructing justice into the position of ultimate global power regardless of your feelings? It's easily done, through a variety of methods, or even none at all.

See, this is felt as the dems propaganda. There are many gop voters who think HRC was in bed with the russians to defeat the gop candidate.

Its all propaganda. It is who is best at it who wins and right now the is Trump.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I literally have never felt attacked as a 50 something white male, because I can interact with anyone with mutual respect. And if you feel attacked because of the musings of idiots on social media who also choose to but everyone in a box I don't know what to tell you.

I do sometimes feel like I'm shoehorned into a box as a white male on any issue where I don't give the "woke white male" auto-response.

That said, no well in hell do I equate that to racism. That's just "stupid Dem" ism.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Yes, a plurality of white male Christians tend to have a persecution complex. As do GOP white males in general. The group with most of the county's assets and education feel picked because people are tired of bad Christians using the bible as a reason to take other people's rights away. The rest of the GOP is being grouped in as guilt by association. If they don't like it, maybe it's time to take their party back instead of kowtowing to Trump.

Trump made clearly racist comments to 4 members of congress and the primary group that didn't see the comments as racist were boomers. My mom and most of my family fall into that group. They have racist and bigoted tendencies and don't realize it. Therefore, because they feel they're not racists and are ok with Trump's statements then the statements must not have been racist. That's largely why we are where we are now. People refuse to acknowledge their racist and bigoted thoughts and behavior and feel that with Trump in office they can double down on it rather than keep quiet.

I've stated on here before that if the Dems lose an election because they alienate racists by calling them out then so be it. No one should keep quiet when others spread hate.

I'll say this, if the Dems are going to the cross over four ridiculously extremist Congresswomen, they're stupider than I thought. Trump is about as terrible a person as has ever bern elected to any position in U.S. history, but he chose well to attack the clueless "face" of new socialism and Dem progressiveness in AOC and the idiocy of Ohar and her rhetoric.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

See, this is felt as the dems propaganda. There are many gop voters who think HRC was in bed with the russians to defeat the gop candidate.

Its all propaganda. It is who is best at it who wins and right now the is Trump.

To be fair, I suspect any conventional testing of the intelligence of said GOP voters would come under the national average by a not insignificant amount.

I'm as anti-Dem as they come, and I never thought HRC conspired with the Russians. I just thought she was a terrible candidate (from a GOP values position).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Why does the Middle class get left out? Are they not the backbone of the country?

Well, they would be if one party in particular hadn't decided to circle the wagons around attempts to undermine workers' unions (which, y'know, were major drivers in the creation of the middle class in the first place). They would be if one party in particular didn't prize investor profits over a living wage. They would be if one party in particular didn't look at emergent technologies and say "becoming global leaders in those technologies would mean disadvantaging coal and we need to win elections in West Virginia and Pennsylvania."

And so on. The Republican Party doesn't give the tiniest good goddamn about the middle class. If they did, they wouldn't blow a trillion dollar hole in the budget deficit to give the wealthy a payoff and then tell the other 99% "sorry, there's nothing left for you, and in fact we have to cut what we've been spending on you to pay for that tax cut."

They're pretty good at messaging, though. "Yeah, you got next to nothing out of this, but imagine if the DEMOCRATS had been in control!" And so it goes.

The Democrats haven't exactly been forceful, competent champions for the middle class, whatever their intentions, but there's a difference between being shitty at marshaling public support for their economic vision and telling the public to keep voting for tax cuts for the rich, because maybe next time the horse will sing.

[Butter]

tarcone, your post history is quite clear about why you will NEVER vote for a democrat for president, so please quit your BS posturing.

It is anathema to your way of thinking. Your Trump-ian statements of "I know a lot of people who think" x, y, and z are transparent.

The truth is that those who support Trump and the GOP right now have decided that supporting a man and a party who are ok with co-opting racism, division, and undermining the very Constitution they have sworn to protect by taking every oversight function and breaking them need to be comfortable with that fact. If you're not, then speak the fuck up, or do something radical to change the party. If you are, then own it, but you also have to own the racism that comes with it.

And this is not that stupid "politically correct" racism that was more just like coded language and lazy thinking for white people. This is by God, KKK-endorsed, 1960's segregation-era RACISM with a capital R.

Because if you don't speak out, you're complicit,, you're ok with it and frankly the rhetoric is tired.

[Butter]

I guess I'll follow that up by saying I don't get how someone can say that "pro-white" is not racist. It is by definition. You are favoring one race over others. It's right there in the fuckin' name, mate.

Racism: the belief that members of different races or ethnicities should be treated differently.

Own it, it's ok.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Butter

I guess I'll follow that up by saying I don't get how someone can say that "pro-white" is not racist. It is by definition. You are favoring one race over others. It's right there in the fuckin' name, mate.

Racism: the belief that members of different races or ethnicities should be treated differently.

Own it, it's ok.

Would you consider someone who is "pro-black" or "pro-woman" a racist or sexist?

[Butter]

No, because all that "pro-black" or "pro-woman" groups want is to achieve equality with the white male. There are some radicals that are racist for sure, but the large majority want just this. That's really the opposite of racism or sexism, isn't it?

[JPhillips]

*whispers*

race is a social construct

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I think white supremacist is harsh and unwarranted. I would say pro-white. And is there really an issue with this? What is the most attacked person in the country today? White males.

Well this is certainly one of the most casually racist things I've seen on this board.

(yes, I'm contrasting this with JIMG's open racism)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Would you consider someone who is "pro-black" or "pro-woman" a racist or sexist?

Originally Posted by Butter

No, because all that "pro-black" or "pro-woman" groups want is to achieve equality with the white male. There are some radicals that are racist for sure, but the large majority want just this. That's really the opposite of racism or sexism, isn't it?

Exactly. Do people not realize that racism by definition requires a notion of a superiority or inferiority? To be "pro-black" or "pro-woman" is to generally advocate for equality (there are definitely a few Black Separatists who are supremacists out there - generally tend to be of a strange we were the kings and scientists in Africa and the white man stole everything from us because they know we are the better race). To be "pro-white" is to perpetuate supremacy (and to fight against equality, which is chipping away at white privilege by its very nature).

[thesloppy]

At this point I would honestly be very interested to hear someone explain how & why Christian values are better represented by the Republican party than the Democrats.

There used to be a pretty clear set of values that were attributed to the religious right, but as the Republican representatives have collectively ground those values into dust the only actual American Christian ideals that I can see the GOP representing in this day and age are anti-abortion and anti-gay-rights. Both of those issues, whose interpretations are highly questionable in the first place, collectively take up about 3-4 paragraphs worth of the New Testament if I recall.

[ISiddiqui]

Tbh, I don't recall any anti-abortion statements in the New Testament at all.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I like Warrens forgive college debt, but why stop at 100k? My family is just over that thresh hold and these loans are going to kill my family. We are $130k and, unfortunatlely, we bought into the American dream of credit.

Warren's plan doesn't stop at $100k. $100k is just where the 100% forgiveness stops. Then it's a sliding scale up to $250k. At $130k, you'd still get most of them forgiven.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'll say this, if the Dems are going to the cross over four ridiculously extremist Congresswomen, they're stupider than I thought. Trump is about as terrible a person as has ever bern elected to any position in U.S. history, but he chose well to attack the clueless "face" of new socialism and Dem progressiveness in AOC and the idiocy of Ohar and her rhetoric.

What are you talking about? The Dems have been at open war with that group. Pelosi and AOC have not gotten along well at all. Are you suggesting they should've ignored a racist attack on their own members just because of policy disagreements?

[molson]

It's kind of depressing that Trump has only 1 Republican nomination challenger.

I guess that's the way of the world in 2019, but it'd be nice if someone else in the party stood up for sanity, decency, etc. And not just someone who I don't think was even in the party last election cycle.

You'd think Bill Weld could do well in New Hampshire, but he's just been so quiet and has no money and no real name recognition anymore.