Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[Lathum]

[quote=Blade6119]A huge light engulfed the sky last night. I thought at first that the wizard was trying to destroy the whole village, but the light seems to be focused on me. I, being the honorable wolf i am, accept my fate and resign to dying properly with my honor intact. Suddenly though, i notice the light seeks out another wolf besides myself as well. Just as the lightning is about to destroy me, it strikes the other wolf. When this happens, there is a howling wind in which the other wolf communicates a message to the wizard about saving his pack from the wizard. With this, the lightning and thunder stops. As it all returns to normal, i hear the other wolf cry out (this is all paraphrasing, so i cant say the exact quote and all) how he will find the wizard, and he shall have his heartsblood run the ground. Mentioned in this second calling also was that the wizard was a traitor to the pack.[/QUOTE]


OK, this is blade paraphrasing the night he was attatcked and not killed. Hoops claims he did not protect blade that night. My theory is that blades brother tyrith tried to convert him and failed for some reason. If you read the whole post it clearly states that who ever this other wolf was yelled at whoever attatcked blade was a traitor and the message also mentions heartsblood. Add 2 and 2 and you get blood traitor.

That being said

VOTE TYRITH

[Lathum]

dola post 636 is where blade recaped what happened the night he was attatcked

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola-post 649 was where i vouched for blade

Wow, that is a monster theory!

Sorry, I'll go back to being dead now.

[Lathum]

it sure got quiet around here, was it something I said?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Lathum

it sure got quiet around here, was it something I said?

Cronin and I are dead...hoops has no one to talk to now, hence the silence

2/3 of the trifecta of talk are dead. may we rest in peace

[Alan T]

I was trying to start up conversation and got attacked for it.

I'm willing to talk about stuff, but someone else has to drive the conversation now. I've said what I thought about everyone and everything. I don't really have much else to open up on left. I'm fully interested in seeing other people's thoughts or what they think about my strategy for our votes.

[Lathum]

well what is your opinion of my theory

[Alan T]

I think I said that I felt the traitor line might be in reference to Tyrith (I think yesterday). I think it is a viable theory and I've been after Tyrith a few days now. I think its as good of a reach as anything else out right now, and currently have my vote on Tyrith. I think I'm right with you on it.

[Tyrith]

I think everyone has been putting too much emphasis on the traitor line and its reference to me. I'm still fairly convinced it just meant that the wizard isn't a human and is a wolf, and will appear as such, but it doesn't have to be me. Furthermore, all the talk that blade's incident was a conversion attempt seems wrong to me. The flash of lightning had been being used to barbeque people, not convert them. Furthermore, if the wizard has the ability to blend in among us, run away, and possibly escape death, giving them three bad guys, all the wizard powers, and a convert seems excessive.

Lathum is losing trust because throwing everything on me as being the traitor seems sloppy and convinent at best. Blade himself was convinced I was good _after_ that incident. Furthermore, lathum has yet to come forward with any role information, which at this late stage seems odd.

Right now it's probably 6-2. While thinking like Alan's is okay in the early game, we can't afford to keep wasting lynches. We have to get a bad guy in the next two days or we're in deep trouble.

I don't believe cronin was the alpha because of his title, because the powers would have passed to someone, and because putting most of the important powers in the game on person would be a bad game mechanic due to the increases in variance.

[Lathum]

thats not much of an argument

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I think everyone has been putting too much emphasis on the traitor line and its reference to me. I'm still fairly convinced it just meant that the wizard isn't a human and is a wolf, and will appear as such, but it doesn't have to be me. Furthermore, all the talk that blade's incident was a conversion attempt seems wrong to me. The flash of lightning had been being used to barbeque people, not convert them. Furthermore, if the wizard has the ability to blend in among us, run away, and possibly escape death, giving them three bad guys, all the wizard powers, and a convert seems excessive.

I buy that. I mean, Fozzie is the devil, but I think given what we know, a conversion ability would seriously stack the deck against us. It's been present in past games, but in past games, the chief bad guy hasn't been able to run away.

Now, as to the traitor bit, I don't know.

Lathum's bolded quote refers specifically to the wizard; the inductive leap necessary to say that Tyrith must be the wizard because he was Blade's brother and there's a traitor seems a little steep to me.

I gotta think about this some.

[hoopsguy]

I've been slammed at the office today but will be home in another hour or two and looking forward to moving this along. But yeah, has been a very quiet day as of late.

Lathum, I think I put out the Tyrith = traitor theory last Friday. So I'm not considering it a monster theory at this point.

I would love to know why you trust Schmidty, if you feel like you can give that info out. I'm inclined to trust him at least one more day, but I'm not sure my reasons match yours .. thus the question.

[Barkeep49]

Ok based on available info, and as I have had no WW time today, which will not be as true Thursday and Friday, I have to go with something right now. And the somethign right now? Tyrith. Someone is a traitor. Who better then Blade's brother? Where I was once not convinced now I am.

Vote Tyrith

[Coffee Warlord]

I think SkyDog is the guilty one.

[Barkeep49]

Also if you all kill saldana tonight I will be very sad. Schmidty: TWO dead good guys have vouched for me. I vouch for saldana. That oughta be enough.

[Barkeep49]

Oh and one of those dead good guys vouched for saldana as well.

[Barkeep49]

Just to make this clear: I'm out until after lynch.

[Tyrith]

I would really, really love some answers out of lathum. Now.

[Lathum]

for now I am still playing it close to the vest.

[Tyrith]

Close to the vest in WW usually means bullshit.

VOTE LATHUM

[hoopsguy]

Cronin dies, presumed by many as the alpha.
Schmidty claims to be the beta yesterday, still the beta today.
Lathum yesterday claims he got the right info from Schmidty, vouches for him today.

Feel free to jump in and correct any of the statements above. But with these in mind, I'm associating these two as a pair going forward. Just as I'm associating Saldana and Barkeep as a pair, and have been (more or less) for the last few days.

AlanT and Tyrith remain the guys that are unlinked at this point.

Sack - not henchman, but have heard nothing from him about his role and it doesn't seem to be a topic of conversation like Lathum's is today or Schmidty's was yesterday. Yes, he has been cleared by Cronin but I would still like a better understanding where he fits in the overall scheme of things.

Am I missing anyone here? If the humans did start with four (or somehow managed to add another player) then we are potentially at the end game stage now. I'm hoping that people don't hold back too much information at this stage, trying to be cute but hurting our ability to flush out the humans.

[Lathum]

isn't this your second game? How would you know what playing close to the vest means?

[Lathum]

dola-
OOG, sorry tyrith, that was uncalled for.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Sack - not henchman, but have heard nothing from him about his role and it doesn't seem to be a topic of conversation like Lathum's is today or Schmidty's was yesterday. Yes, he has been cleared by Cronin but I would still like a better understanding where he fits in the overall scheme of things.

I haven't said anything about it because there's nothing to say. I'm not special like you guys are. Just a wolf.

[Alan T]

yeah, that was a bit rough Lathum I do agree with Tyrith that at this point holding close to the vest I think has a law of diminishing returns. This morning I wanted to hear more from Schmidty, Saldana, you and Sackattack.
I have no idea what your role or Sack's role are. Saldana hinted at another part of his role but won't say anything about it. Schmidty is the only one who sounds like he has spilt his beans (whether you believe him or not).

I guess I will say I trust you more than Tyrith, but its based on Cronin's vouching based on who knows what and the fact that you have gone after alot of the same guys I have been pushing for each day with similar reason that is sound to me. However that only gets you so far.. look at me today, Ive done everything i can for our team including pushing for people to vote Anxiety.. but it only takes me so far. Unfortunatly for me I am likely to be lynched in the next day or three only because the seer did not scan me and I have a story that can not be vouched by anyone.

[Tyrith]

Right now we just need to know everything. We're either going to win or lose the game in the next two days. The way the vote is going right now, best case scenario for Day Seven is 5-2 good guys, assuming hoops gets lucky on the block tonight. Otherwise, it's 4-2 or, worst case, a loss tonight. There's no more time to hold back the cards.

[Alan T]

Dola, heading home. will be back later some point tonight.

[Lathum]

I don't disagree that the more information about peoples roles the better off we are, but the flip side of that is the bad guys will also know our roles and it gives them a huge advantage when determining night kills.

[Tyrith]

This is how the game is shaping up.

CLEARED BY CRONIN

Hoops -- 99.999 percent that he's good.
Barkeep -- With the CW fiasco, almost certainly good.
Sack -- No role information at all. This seems highly suspicious; assuming BK/CW/SD were the vanilla wolves then Sack should either be able to key into their code or have a role. Now highly suspicious to me.

NOT CLEARED

Tyrith (me) -- I'm good, but I'm going to work on the assumption that I'm dead tonight. This is getting put out there so my thoughts are there if nothing happens.
Alan -- His role is inconsistent with the emphasis on tiebreakers and changing rules already present in the game. Killing anxiety doesn't seem to be a defense for anyone, it was just too easy.
Lathum -- It's time someone said what everyone has been thinking. If cronin wasn't the alpha, it has to be lathum. I figured it was him considering how certain he was about blade; another seer-esque ability possible? I'm unvoting him at the end of this post, but hiding information this late is not good.
Saldana -- Was more into the BK/CW/SD code than CW was, and he was good. If barkeep thinks he's good, I suppose that's enough for now, but definately not clear.
Schmidty -- Lathum's word is good for me right now, and his role actually makes since within the game, especially if Lathum has powers.

If I die today, I would look at Sack as the wizard because of his bad role information, and Alan as the other henchman. If somehow we find out cronin was the alpha, then swing back to lathum, but that seems highly doubtful to me. The vote on lathum was a frustration vote.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SACK ATTACK

[Tyrith]

Actually, that's not so smart. I suspect Alan pretty much the same amount, and hoops' logic comes into play. Safer, in case I'm wrong again.

UNVOTE SACK ATTACK
VOTE ALANT

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

This is how the game is shaping up.

CLEARED BY CRONIN

Hoops -- 99.999 percent that he's good.
Barkeep -- With the CW fiasco, almost certainly good.
Sack -- No role information at all. This seems highly suspicious; assuming BK/CW/SD were the vanilla wolves then Sack should either be able to key into their code or have a role. Now highly suspicious to me.

NOT CLEARED

Tyrith (me) -- I'm good, but I'm going to work on the assumption that I'm dead tonight. This is getting put out there so my thoughts are there if nothing happens.
Alan -- His role is inconsistent with the emphasis on tiebreakers and changing rules already present in the game. Killing anxiety doesn't seem to be a defense for anyone, it was just too easy.
Lathum -- It's time someone said what everyone has been thinking. If cronin wasn't the alpha, it has to be lathum. I figured it was him considering how certain he was about blade; another seer-esque ability possible? I'm unvoting him at the end of this post, but hiding information this late is not good.
Saldana -- Was more into the BK/CW/SD code than CW was, and he was good. If barkeep thinks he's good, I suppose that's enough for now, but definately not clear.
Schmidty -- Lathum's word is good for me right now, and his role actually makes since within the game, especially if Lathum has powers.

If I die today, I would look at Sack as the wizard because of his bad role information, and Alan as the other henchman. If somehow we find out cronin was the alpha, then swing back to lathum, but that seems highly doubtful to me. The vote on lathum was a frustration vote.

UNVOTE LATHUM
VOTE SACK ATTACK

What was your role again, Tyrith? Just out of curiosity.

[Tyrith]

Roles, as told by the players:

Hoops: bodyguard
Me: Blade's brother (hence the traitor speculation)
Barkeep, saldana: Mostly vanilla wolves whose votes might count for something more
Alan: Lucky wolf
Schmidty: Wolf beta

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Also if you all kill saldana tonight I will be very sad. Schmidty: TWO dead good guys have vouched for me. I vouch for saldana. That oughta be enough.

I will unvote him for now, but I still find it very curious and silly that he is voting for me today.

Unvote saldana

By the way, does anyone have a vote count? I want to think things through, but I also don't want to make a quick vote and piss someone off when there's already one vote for me (saldana). I want us wolves, and I sure as hell don't want to go home today. If that looks bad, oh well. I want to save my own skin, because that helps the wolves as a whole.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I want us wolves, and I sure as hell don't want to go home today.

That should be "I want us wolves to win".

[hoopsguy]

Roles, as told by the players:

Hoops: bodyguard
Tyrith: Blade's brother
Barkeep/Saldana: mostly vanilla wolves
AlanT: lucky wolf
Schmidty: Beta wolf
Sack: vanilla wolf, no linkage to Barkeep/Saldana up to this point
Lathum: no role claimed, "close to vest"

Unclaimed role: Alpha
Other roles not claimed: ???

We are assuming there is a wizard and probably one henchman left (possibly two?). If we assume that the humans would try to blend (duh) then I doubt that both of the people who have not claimed roles are the antagonists.

If there is no update on voting patterns in the last hour here, then the vote is going to be pretty random. Time to count up where we are at now ...

[hoopsguy]

Votes, as of Post #1835:

Schmidty - AlanT (1790)
Tyrith - Lathum (1801), Barkeep (1813)
AlanT - Tyrith (1830)

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, how did you know that Blade and I were wolves on Day 2 when we were bickering? Gut or some hard info at the time? Because you did come out pretty forcefully in saying that we were both likely to be wolves.

Of course, Anxiety said the same thing that day. It is easier for antagonists to make plays like that since they have complete information about who is on what side ...

[SackAttack]

I'm off to pick up my car from the body shop (I hope). It shouldn't take me 2:15 to get it and get home. I'd be pissed as hell if it did.

Just in case:

Vote Tyrith.

This is only a placeholder, is meant to avoid ties in the event nobody shows up - since I think it's important to get a human today, and I don't know if a tie would help us do that - and is absolutely subject to change, provided I get home before the deadline.

Back soon (I hope).

[saldana]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Votes, as of Post #1835:

Schmidty - AlanT (1790)
Tyrith - Lathum (1801), Barkeep (1813)
AlanT - Tyrith (1830)

i have a vote on schmidty as well

[Alan T]

Hoops, I think your votes are wrong. I voted for Tyrith today. (I am pretty sure at least. thats who I wanted to vote for. I will go back to double checK)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'm off to pick up my car from the body shop (I hope). It shouldn't take me 2:15 to get it and get home. I'd be pissed as hell if it did.

Just in case:

Vote Tyrith.

This is only a placeholder, is meant to avoid ties in the event nobody shows up - since I think it's important to get a human today, and I don't know if a tie would help us do that - and is absolutely subject to change, provided I get home before the deadline.

Back soon (I hope).

Sack, Fozzie already said that if the voting rules hypothetically end up where ties are possible (I am guessing if today's vote is majority, or least number of votes), then tiebreaker roles will kick in. So I can gurantuee that no tie will end up with a no-lynch at least if I am involved.

[Alan T]

Yeah Hoops, my vote was actually #1774 and was on Tyrith, not Schmidty. 1790 is Saldana's vote on Schmidty.

[hoopsguy]

Oops, had the wrong person moving their vote:

Schmidty - Saldana (1790)
Tyrith - AlanT (1774), Lathum (1801), Barkeep (1813), Sack (1838)
AlanT - Tyrith (1830)

I've got no problem with a Tyrith/AlanT tie if we go normal voting rules. If it is something other than normal rules, then one of those guys is getting plucked as well if it is 4-4. It allows us to make sure we are preserving our critical roles and only risking the loss of lesser roles with a mistake. I want to get a wizard, but I don't feel like I have enough to work on yet to determine between these two. Time to go on a fact-finding mission but for now:

VOTE ALANT

[hoopsguy]

Anxiety voting record:
Day 1 (Post #290 for recap, AE/Sack with last vote at #291): Barkeep
Day 2 (Post #468 is close enough to end): Hoopsguy
Day 3 (Post #872): Cronin
Day 4 (Post #1386): Tyrith

With votes for Cronin and I in the mix, plus one for Barkeep (not wizard, cross-vouched by CW and Saldana) I feel better about having the vote on AlanT instead of Tyrith. Not a ton better, but by the time Anxiety moved his vote on this day it was a done deal and he could have placed it anywhere he wanted. Based on the first three day votes I don't think he selected to put it on a fellow wolf at the end.

[Alan T]

Well a fair compromise would be to tie it up between Tyrith and I, you can at least let me prove my story was true and allow it to save my own neck for another day.

Right now the biggest reason for anyone to go after me is simply because the Seer did not sniff me even after I asked him to. I'm not sure what else I can do to prove to you all that I am a wolf that i havent already done.

[Lathum]

hoops- I had solid info about blade and based on your comments I assumed you were good.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, here is the exact post - #649:

OK, I am pretty sure both blade and hoops are telling the truth. I would rather not say why right now. I think we will find that no one else will come forward as the bodyguard to challenge hoops' story.

I can't say right now why I am sure about blade but I am 99.999% positive.

I also feel St. Cronin and Saldana are on the level.

I know I am putting myself in harms way with these startments, I just hope the people I am supporting repay me.

That led me to believe, after Blade was killed the following night, that you were the pack alpha and had saved him. If you were involved with this, any PM information that you can share about that night might be very helpful in trying to understand the "traitor" info that Blade shared ... throw-away part of the description or did it show up in the 2nd wolf's PM as well?

[hoopsguy]

And again here - Post #667:

Hoops and Blade, I think you are focusing to much attention on each other and playing into the baddies hands.

Trust me, you are both telling the truth and need to look elsewhere.

Also, for what it is worth this is not the fact-finding mission I was on ... trying to learn from Anxiety's posts, specifically who did he avoid discussing? I just saw these two as I was passing through Day 3.

[Alan T]

Just another thought.. alot of us have been wondering how would we know what the voting rules were without Cronin around. Surely fozzie wouldnt put that in the game without some mechanism to handle it...

I was told that something in the game could turn the vote back to normal. I had been assuming it would be finding and lynching the wizard. maybe it was cronin's death itself that set things back straight again instead? And this is a normal vote cycle all over again?

[hoopsguy]

Fozzie's PM for last night didn't sound like that, Alan. And he was pretty clear in letting us know the rules were going to be screwed.

That said, without any idea of how the mechanic works I still think a 4-4 tie between you and Tyrith is our best play in covering all the scenarios. I know this isn't very comforting for either of you (playing as wolf or human) but I like it better than a number of alternatives that involve could lead to death for the remaining critical roles (whoever they are).