Werewolf LXX Pleasure Cruise - (GAME OVER) - Page 38

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No I'm not. A number of people, without looking I'd say 3-4 have blatantly said "Clap was a good conversion candidate"

Right, but they're not saying "I think clap is the most likely player to be a wolf." They're saying "I need to vote for somebody, and I can find reasons to vote for clap."

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 02:49 PM

I dunno, this all stinks to me.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 02:50 PM

Nobody has even commented on the fact that Barkeep has been manipulatively dishonest.

mccollins · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

This is the quote I was referring to Scott

Yes, in this instance, it's relating to Lathum.

But given that last sentence (bolded by me), how can you say that, and vote effectively for Cronin, when Cronin lied about taking the drugs (somewhat indirectly, but IMO, it's still a lie).

Haha you used my real name

In that case, you're right that cronin made a diversionary statement, but then he barely said anything the rest of that first day. And we were all villagers at that point.

Are you saying he was being wolfish on day 1??

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

I guess I just don't understand how literally 8 people can go from not posting a thing about even leaning towards trusting clap to now's he's this mega-super-duper-trusted guy who was some stellar conversion candidate all along.

That's the disconnect.

Who knows, maybe I'm the red-ass who's wrong here, but that logic just doesn't add up to me.

hoopsguy · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Heinz, I think the more appealing argument for Clap would be "we have a positive data point for him - is that true for anyone else?" rather than "the fortune teller reveal bought no trust".

Again, I'm not changing my vote but I think you are making a very tough argument that is loosely supported by the posts in the thread.

If Fortune Teller = seer (assumption) and a player is cleared by the seer, then that builds trust universally in werewolf games. Discussion on the relative merits of this by a small group of people does not diminish the fact that it builds trust. The lack of people digging their heels in to defend the complete trust of this reveal does not (to me, anyway) suggest that most clear-headed people didn't assign some greater measure of trust to this individual than the median.

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Nobody has even commented on the fact that Barkeep has been manipulatively dishonest.

I'm not sure what to say about that at this point, but I don't think it's going to be settled by deadline.

TazFTW · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just so there are no confusion with items being passed as everyone is aware there are a couple of items in this game.. As the rules state any item that is passed is done instantly.. You can't undo a PM to pass an item. For story and decision purposes, you aren't informed of the item being passed until the end of the event phase. You do not actually receive any options to use an item until the PM where you receive it.

Hmmm, I guess then I will now Unvote
as my theory on claphasma no longer holds true
I therefore Vote barkeep to get off the boat
Good thing Jamaica is next so I can down some Red Stripe brew

KWhit · 04-11-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No I'm not. A number of people, without looking I'd say 3-4 have blatantly said "Clap was a good conversion candidate"

In a game where conversion is likely (now appears to be a certainty), it is not unheard of for people to think that someone is pretty darn trustworthy and not say anything about it, so as not to draw too much attention from the wolves.

Just because people didn't jump up and down saying "He's Good!" doesn't mean he wasn't among the most trusted of us all.

claphamsa · 04-11-2008, 02:53 PM

yeah where did mccollins come from? and why doy ou have a different SN on every board :P confusing!

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I guess I just don't understand how literally 8 people can go from not posting a thing about even leaning towards trusting clap to now's he's this mega-super-duper-trusted guy who was some stellar conversion candidate all along.

That's the disconnect.

Who knows, maybe I'm the red-ass who's wrong here, but that logic just doesn't add up to me.

Maybe the problem is that clap hasn't said much to trust or distrust?

claphamsa · 04-11-2008, 02:53 PM

do we have a count?

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, I think the more appealing argument for Clap would be "we have a positive data point for him - is that true for anyone else?" rather than "the fortune teller reveal bought no trust".

Again, I'm not changing my vote but I think you are making a very tough argument that is loosely supported by the posts in the thread.

If Fortune Teller = seer (assumption) and a player is cleared by the seer, then that builds trust universally in werewolf games. Discussion on the relative merits of this by a small group of people does not diminish the fact that it builds trust. The lack of people digging their heels in to defend the complete trust of this reveal does not (to me, anyway) suggest that most clear-headed people didn't assign some greater measure of trust to this individual than the median.

I'd say how come this is the first time, with 8 minutes to deadline, this has been mentioned as a reasoning.

I mean if that was a reasoning all along, that changes things. But to put in the All-Pro QB in a tie game in the 4th quarter hardly changes my opinion to that effect.

KWhit · 04-11-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, I think the more appealing argument for Clap would be "we have a positive data point for him - is that true for anyone else?" rather than "the fortune teller reveal bought no trust".

Again, I'm not changing my vote but I think you are making a very tough argument that is loosely supported by the posts in the thread.

If Fortune Teller = seer (assumption) and a player is cleared by the seer, then that builds trust universally in werewolf games. Discussion on the relative merits of this by a small group of people does not diminish the fact that it builds trust. The lack of people digging their heels in to defend the complete trust of this reveal does not (to me, anyway) suggest that most clear-headed people didn't assign some greater measure of trust to this individual than the median.

Yeah - what he said.

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

do we have a count?

cronin 8
clap 7
BK 3

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 02:56 PM

Cronin (7): Barkeep (1555), claphamsa (1558), PurdueBrad (1664), jeheinz72 (1713), Passacaglia (1746), Anxiety (1792), Jackal (1815)

Claphamsa (6): hoopsguy (1691), Qwikshot (1716), mccollins (1724), path12 (1747), olie (1783), KWhit (1791)

Barkeep (3): Cronin (1820), Lathum (1827), TazFTW (1858)

Oliegirl (1): Chief Rum (1527)
jeheinz72 (1): Sonic Youth (1585)
Anxiety (1): nfg22 (1644)

Not voting: ntnDeacon

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 02:56 PM

yeah, what heinz said -- i knew cronin was up by 1!

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 02:56 PM

Anyone else find it troubling how the # of votes on significant people has gone down quickly at deadline?

If there's a no lynch, Taz, Lathum or Cronin (I know, shocker) gets my vote tomorrow, no diggity doubt about it.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 02:58 PM

I'm not moving my vote, I sincerely almost hope that I get lynched. This is nonsense. Barkeep has been LYING.

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 02:58 PM

At this point, I'm wondering if we're villager-villager. If anyone's trying to save cronin or clap, how would we know?

claphamsa · 04-11-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

At this point, I'm wondering if we're villager-villager. If anyone's trying to save cronin or clap, how would we know?

seriously, how often do people try and save someoen? We mention it, but ive never done it..... and no one has ever saved me. (i don think) its just toooo obvious when you get caught.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:00 PM

BARKEEP IS LYING, and people know it. Yet he has three votes. This is absurd.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

At this point, I'm wondering if we're villager-villager. If anyone's trying to save cronin or clap, how would we know?

I think any save votes would've been an hour or so again (so as to not be blatant).

In that case I'd look at olie, Anxiety, Jackal and KWhit as potential "savers"

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

BARKEEP IS LYING, and people know it. Yet he has three votes. This is absurd.

Recap this lie for me (seriously)

Alan T · 04-11-2008, 03:01 PM

Deadline

Alan T · 04-11-2008, 03:02 PM

This is my vote count. Someone correct me if I am wrong while I work on PMs:

(7) St.cronin - Barkeep (1555), Claphamsa (1559), PurdueBrad (1664), jeheinz72 (1713), passacaglia (1746), Anxiety (1792), The Jackal (1815)
(6) claphamsa - Hoopsguy (1691), qwikshot (1716), mccollins (1724), path12 (1747), Oliegirl (1783), Kwhit (1791)
(3) Barkeep - St.cronin (1820), Lathum (1827), tazftw (1858)
(1) Jeheinz72 - Sonic Youth (1585)
(1) Anxiety - nfg22 (1644)
(1) oliegirl - Chief Rum (1527)

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Recap this lie for me (seriously)

omg

Passacaglia · 04-11-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I think any save votes would've been an hour or so again (so as to not be blatant).

In that case I'd look at olie, Anxiety, Jackal and KWhit as potential "savers"

I guess I meant if anyone had been trying to save either of them, how would we know? I mean, how would we look at those guys in view of what has happened since then?

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:03 PM

Barkeep argued that I was in some way pushing for a no lynch, and I called him on it - his response was to pull up three quotes I made RIGHT AFTER a vote deadline.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

omg

Sorry dude, I was a bit too much into my points to listen to yours.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:04 PM

I said I wasn't going to move my vote. Very disappointing play from the village if I end up lynched.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Barkeep argued that I was in some way pushing for a no lynch, and I called him on it - his response was to pull up three quotes I made RIGHT AFTER a vote deadline.

Gotcha, I see what you're saying.

I hate to put words into BK's mouth, but that's along the lines of your questioning and being at ease with not worrying about hitting a certain % to lynch someone (you thought the tie and the arrest caused the first two).

Maybe that's what he was getting at? I don't know, that was my take on it. I thought the lie was something I missed altogether.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Gotcha, I see what you're saying.

I hate to put words into BK's mouth, but that's along the lines of your questioning and being at ease with not worrying about hitting a certain % to lynch someone (you thought the tie and the arrest caused the first two).

Maybe that's what he was getting at? I don't know, that was my take on it. I thought the lie was something I missed altogether.

Dude. There is no way you can interpret anything I have posted in this game as arguing for a no lynch. And you certainly can't use posts made AFTER a deadline as trying to persuade anybody's vote one way or the other. That's deceitful. I am very sure that Barkeep is a wolf, and has pulled the wool over your eyes.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Dude. There is no way you can interpret anything I have posted in this game as arguing for a no lynch. And you certainly can't use posts made AFTER a deadline as trying to persuade anybody's vote one way or the other. That's deceitful. I am very sure that Barkeep is a wolf, and has pulled the wool over your eyes.

No, I wouldn't say that you *pushed* for a no lynch.

I'd say though that you've been very unconcerned up until maybe the tail end of this vote that we would need to worry about hitting a certain # of votes or % of votes to get a lynch.

I agree that of the 3 posts BK quoted, the first two are irrelevant. The last one though, I'd say is incorrect on your part.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:13 PM

I would also look hard at Passacaglia, his handling of the drugs has been very questionable in my eyes. The most village friendly thing he could have done would have been to dose me, or really, anybody. But he held onto them.

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'd say though that you've been very unconcerned up until maybe the tail end of this vote that we would need to worry about hitting a certain # of votes or % of votes to get a lynch.

Compared to Barkeep, who has pushed for a runaway every day since day 0? Or compared to the several people who haven't bothered to vote, even saying "I'm not voting today?"

mccollins · 04-11-2008, 03:17 PM

Deadline has passed. If there's a lynch, buck sez Cronin is a villager.

If not, I really need to sit back and watch more.

mccollins · 04-11-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

yeah where did mccollins come from? and why doy ou have a different SN on every board :P confusing!

It's an old username. I don't know anyone here so I didn't really want to use my first name!

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:19 PM

My bad bro for doing that!

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:21 PM

Regardless of the rules of the game, I am always going to vote for the person I think most likely to be a wolf. That's why I have voted for KWhit and Barkeep, instead of piling on to whoever the vote leader was. I may be wrong about both of them, but Barkeep knows that's how I play, and for him to try to paint my play this game as devious or counter to the interests of the village is wrong, and I think he did it on purpose.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Compared to Barkeep, who has pushed for a runaway every day since day 0? Or compared to the several people who haven't bothered to vote, even saying "I'm not voting today?"

I'd rather have someone get lynched than no one. So I'd (barely) prefer a runaway to a no-lynch.

As far as the no-voters, I agree, that's a big problem. But they just aren't the fish to fry today. Maybe the wolves are playing an UTR game this time, I don't know. I haven't seen that much on this board though, and i'm not inclined it's the case.

I mean let's face facts, at least one of the major conversation pushers is likely a wolf (8 of us have over 97 posts, then the next most drops to 78). Could our wolves be Olie (24), NTN (25), Taz (33) and KWhit (37)? Sure, but I don't believe it. At least not by themselves.

mccollins · 04-11-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

My bad bro for doing that!

No problemo! We were all typing hard and fast for a while there!
I'm feeling more comfortable with all these chaps anyways

Alan T · 04-11-2008, 03:37 PM

As you arrive in Montego Bay, you watch the ship dock at the port. Once everything has been tied up and secured, the Captain opens the gates and waves you on your way to enjoy the day. If he was concerned about removing anyone today, you sure can't tell.

It is now the Event Response phase of turn 5. Remember this is an extended Weekend schedule, so please have your responses in by Saturday night 10pm EST.

Alan T · 04-11-2008, 03:37 PM

Sending out PMs now

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:38 PM

Well, that's a relief.

jeheinz72 · 04-11-2008, 03:40 PM

I went shopping today and have a choice. I can go to the flea market or to the craft stores.

Alan T · 04-11-2008, 03:44 PM

All Pms have been sent. if you did not get one, let me know!

Abe Sargent · 04-11-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I went shopping today and have a choice. I can go to the flea market or to the craft stores.

I went shopping, but I have three choices, not two. Did you intentionally hide one of those?

st.cronin · 04-11-2008, 03:45 PM

Red Stripe for me.

claphamsa · 04-11-2008, 03:45 PM

ugh, I was soo worried about dying...... I passed my object and forgot to send in an action :'(

04-11-2008, 02:50 PM	#1853
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Nobody has even commented on the fact that Barkeep has been manipulatively dishonest. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 02:53 PM	#1860
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	yeah where did mccollins come from? and why doy ou have a different SN on every board :P confusing! __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

04-11-2008, 02:53 PM	#1862
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	do we have a count? __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

04-11-2008, 02:58 PM	#1869
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I'm not moving my vote, I sincerely almost hope that I get lynched. This is nonsense. Barkeep has been LYING. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:00 PM	#1872
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	BARKEEP IS LYING, and people know it. Yet he has three votes. This is absurd. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 02:49 PM	#1852
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	I dunno, this all stinks to me.

04-11-2008, 02:52 PM	#1855
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	I guess I just don't understand how literally 8 people can go from not posting a thing about even leaning towards trusting clap to now's he's this mega-super-duper-trusted guy who was some stellar conversion candidate all along. That's the disconnect. Who knows, maybe I'm the red-ass who's wrong here, but that logic just doesn't add up to me.

04-11-2008, 02:52 PM	#1856
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Heinz, I think the more appealing argument for Clap would be "we have a positive data point for him - is that true for anyone else?" rather than "the fortune teller reveal bought no trust". Again, I'm not changing my vote but I think you are making a very tough argument that is loosely supported by the posts in the thread. If Fortune Teller = seer (assumption) and a player is cleared by the seer, then that builds trust universally in werewolf games. Discussion on the relative merits of this by a small group of people does not diminish the fact that it builds trust. The lack of people digging their heels in to defend the complete trust of this reveal does not (to me, anyway) suggest that most clear-headed people didn't assign some greater measure of trust to this individual than the median.

04-11-2008, 02:56 PM	#1866
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	Cronin (7): Barkeep (1555), claphamsa (1558), PurdueBrad (1664), jeheinz72 (1713), Passacaglia (1746), Anxiety (1792), Jackal (1815) Claphamsa (6): hoopsguy (1691), Qwikshot (1716), mccollins (1724), path12 (1747), olie (1783), KWhit (1791) Barkeep (3): Cronin (1820), Lathum (1827), TazFTW (1858) Oliegirl (1): Chief Rum (1527) jeheinz72 (1): Sonic Youth (1585) Anxiety (1): nfg22 (1644) Not voting: ntnDeacon

04-11-2008, 02:56 PM	#1867
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	yeah, what heinz said -- i knew cronin was up by 1!

04-11-2008, 02:56 PM	#1868
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	Anyone else find it troubling how the # of votes on significant people has gone down quickly at deadline? If there's a no lynch, Taz, Lathum or Cronin (I know, shocker) gets my vote tomorrow, no diggity doubt about it.

04-11-2008, 02:58 PM	#1870
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	At this point, I'm wondering if we're villager-villager. If anyone's trying to save cronin or clap, how would we know?

04-11-2008, 03:01 PM	#1875
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Deadline

04-11-2008, 03:02 PM	#1876
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	This is my vote count. Someone correct me if I am wrong while I work on PMs: (7) St.cronin - Barkeep (1555), Claphamsa (1559), PurdueBrad (1664), jeheinz72 (1713), passacaglia (1746), Anxiety (1792), The Jackal (1815) (6) claphamsa - Hoopsguy (1691), qwikshot (1716), mccollins (1724), path12 (1747), Oliegirl (1783), Kwhit (1791) (3) Barkeep - St.cronin (1820), Lathum (1827), tazftw (1858) (1) Jeheinz72 - Sonic Youth (1585) (1) Anxiety - nfg22 (1644) (1) oliegirl - Chief Rum (1527)

04-11-2008, 03:03 PM	#1879
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Barkeep argued that I was in some way pushing for a no lynch, and I called him on it - his response was to pull up three quotes I made RIGHT AFTER a vote deadline. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:04 PM	#1881
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I said I wasn't going to move my vote. Very disappointing play from the village if I end up lynched. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:13 PM	#1885
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I would also look hard at Passacaglia, his handling of the drugs has been very questionable in my eyes. The most village friendly thing he could have done would have been to dose me, or really, anybody. But he held onto them. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:17 PM	#1887
mccollins College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Nicholasville, KY	Deadline has passed. If there's a lynch, buck sez Cronin is a villager. If not, I really need to sit back and watch more.

04-11-2008, 03:19 PM	#1889
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	My bad bro for doing that!

04-11-2008, 03:21 PM	#1890
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Regardless of the rules of the game, I am always going to vote for the person I think most likely to be a wolf. That's why I have voted for KWhit and Barkeep, instead of piling on to whoever the vote leader was. I may be wrong about both of them, but Barkeep knows that's how I play, and for him to try to paint my play this game as devious or counter to the interests of the village is wrong, and I think he did it on purpose. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:37 PM	#1893
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	As you arrive in Montego Bay, you watch the ship dock at the port. Once everything has been tied up and secured, the Captain opens the gates and waves you on your way to enjoy the day. If he was concerned about removing anyone today, you sure can't tell. It is now the Event Response phase of turn 5. Remember this is an extended Weekend schedule, so please have your responses in by Saturday night 10pm EST.

04-11-2008, 03:37 PM	#1894
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Sending out PMs now

04-11-2008, 03:38 PM	#1895
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Well, that's a relief. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:40 PM	#1896
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	I went shopping today and have a choice. I can go to the flea market or to the craft stores.

04-11-2008, 03:44 PM	#1897
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	All Pms have been sent. if you did not get one, let me know!

04-11-2008, 03:45 PM	#1899
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Red Stripe for me. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

04-11-2008, 03:45 PM	#1900
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	ugh, I was soo worried about dying...... I passed my object and forgot to send in an action :'( __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

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