Soccer Thread 2013-14

[saldana]

i thought this was an interesting bit of statistical intrepidity, give all the talk about improving the quality of homegrown english players, and Juan Aquedalo being denied a work visa yesterday...its what the table would have been if you only counted goals by English players.

Log In - The New York Times

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

I feel like Italians are really the only others that tend to stay in their home country. Obviously that has changed a bit in recent years, but how many Italy players going to the World Cup play outside of Italy?

And yet inevitably when I play FM my Italian squads (both for club and national team when I manage it) tend to feature players from abroad. That is - lots of foreigners coming into the league, and the top talent being sold outside of it.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by cartman

And Motta was born and grew up in Brazil, but made it on to the Italian team because he held dual citizenship.

Good point there!

DaddyTorgo

And yet inevitably when I play FM my Italian squads (both for club and national team when I manage it) tend to feature players from abroad. That is - lots of foreigners coming into the league, and the top talent being sold outside of it.

Heh, I'm usually the same wherever I'm playing in FM.

It would be nice to see young Ince go to Inter. Maybe some of these other players like Rodwell will go out and get that experience. He should have never left Everton, really.

[sovereignstar v2]

[bhlloy]

That's terrible goalkeeping, no matter how hard he hits it (as the commentator says)

[Grover]

We should be able to put 5 past Azerbaijan. Incredible they haven't scored yet.

[BishopMVP]

Chris Wondolowski still isn't good...

[Grover]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Chris Wondolowski still isn't good...

I can't believe he couldn't finish that first header.

Also, are ANY of our forwards really any good?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Chris Wondolowski still isn't good...

Foz seems to disagree with me - says I'm irrational.

Glad to hear that others agree with me.

That said - Jozy has looked pretty lethargic too. I'd like to see Aaron f'ing Johansson please!!

This team isn't looking like it could score on North Korea at the moment.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

I can't believe he couldn't finish that first header.

Also, are ANY of our forwards really any good?

Nah. Jozy's a decent target man when he's motivated and active (he had a couple nice touches in the first half), but he's too inconsistent for my taste.

If this team doesn't show something much better over the next 2.5 games I'm not enthusiastic about them putting the ball in the net in Brazil.

[Grover]

Jozy has looked lethargic since early mid-August.

He really doesn't deserve a place on this team, but who else are they going to put up top? Two career Premier League goals in almost 50 matches. Not a good ratio for what's considered a country's best forward.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

Jozy has looked lethargic since early mid-August.

He really doesn't deserve a place on this team, but who else are they going to put up top? Two career Premier League goals in almost 50 matches. Not a good ratio for what's considered a country's best forward.

Yeah. The problem is he's really the only one with the physical skill-set that he has who is remotely close the quality-level they need in order to play this type of system (which they somewhat have to do due to the individual skill level of the players I suppose), so he's almost grandfathered into a starting spot.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah. The problem is he's really the only one with the physical skill-set that he has who is remotely close the quality-level they need in order to play this type of system (which they somewhat have to do due to the individual skill level of the players I suppose), so he's almost grandfathered into a starting spot.

I'm really hoping Green can develop as a forward to give us something a little bit different, something more direct and fast paced.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Grover

I'm really hoping Green can develop as a forward to give us something a little bit different, something more direct and fast paced.

I'd love that. Fuck - if this keeps going like this I wouldn't mind seeing him in that role in this game. Maybe with Jozy to see if the two of them click?

[BishopMVP]

Jozy has been fine. He is what he is - he needs guys around him who can take on defenders - so I'd rather see Johansson or even Julian Green next to him if Dempsey can't start. Even when he was having his great stretch there would be long stretches during the run of play where he was a nonfactor. It also can't be too easy to play target striker with a wind like this.

[kingfc22]

Yea if we can't put anything past this team, well it's going to be a rough 270 minutes in Brazil.

[BishopMVP]

Bedoya has also shown very little good stuff tonight. Zusi has outplayed him by a mile.

And add Brad Davis to the list of players I think Donovan would be better than who have shown poorly tonight, even if he should've drawn a penalty.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Jozy has been fine. He is what he is - he needs guys around him who can take on defenders - so I'd rather see Johansson or even Julian Green next to him if Dempsey can't start. Even when he was having his great stretch there would be long stretches during the run of play where he was a nonfactor. It also can't be too easy to play target striker with a wind like this.

Exactly. Wondo is not the guy to pair with him. Unless you're getting stellar midfield play and stretching the field to whip crosses back in. Which they're not (obviously the wind is affecting that).

[Grover]

Finally getting to see Mix!

[Grover]

Goddamn do I love Mix.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mix makes things happen...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Exactly. Wondo is not the guy to pair with him. Unless you're getting stellar midfield play and stretching the field to whip crosses back in. Which they're not (obviously the wind is affecting that).

Yup. The only role Wondo should have is as a late sub if we're protecting a lead and want a forward who will work his ass off tracking back.

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Yea if we can't put anything past this team, well it's going to be a rough 270 minutes in Brazil.

Shurg. Put Dempsey in for Wondo and we probably have a goal in the first 5 minutes. Just a brutal header to miss.

[DaddyTorgo]

Mix & AJ for starters plz!!

I mean that was an unmarked fucking header (as was Wondo's though), but you see the difference Foz??

[PilotMan]

That looked like an FM goal against my team. Lol.

[BishopMVP]

Yeah, Azerbaijan might want to switch to some man marking on set pieces.

Announcers were singing Brad Davis's and Alejandro Bedoya's praises, but other than Davis's set piece delivery I thought they were terrible. I'd love to see Zusi and Mix on the wings of that diamond midfield, with Dempsey underneath Altidore and AJ first off the bench around the 60th minute or so.

Fabian Johnson and Timmy Chandler looked better than I remember at the wingbacks, but hard to really draw any conclusions about the defense from that game. Not sure how good Turkey is offensively, but you know Nigeria will have plenty of speed up top and can take advantage of lazy passes or bad mistakes.

[miami_fan]

Malcolm Glazer has passed away.

[sovereignstar v2]

Rumored that David Villa and Frank Lampard are on the verge of signing for New York FC.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Rumored that David Villa and Frank Lampard are on the verge of signing for New York FC.

I was thinking about adopting them as my MLS team, then I saw they're owned by the Yankees and Man City. Meh.

[Icy]

Villa deal is done, he will play in the MLS next season, confirmed by himself today.

He still has a couple of good seasons before retiring, will be fun to watch there.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Icy

Villa deal is done, he will play in the MLS next season, confirmed by himself today.

He still has a couple of good seasons before retiring, will be fun to watch there.

MLS' Designated Player rule is so beneficial to only a couple markets, it's ridiculous. The fact that teams can trade their DP slots has led to situations where you have teams with multiple DPs and then some with none.

You hear about someone like Lampard or Villa or whoever coming to MLS and its hard to get excited about it unless you're a fan of 1-2 teams, because you know that there's no way they're going anywhere but NYC/LA.

I understand the reasons for that, and I understand the reasons for the rule given that the league has this single-entity structure and all, just saying.

[MrBug708]

Part of the problem is that a lot of these big names don't want to play in many of the markets either.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Part of the problem is that a lot of these big names don't want to play in many of the markets either.

Oh I know - I understand that.

But there's other solutions to that. Instead of allowing teams to trade their DP's - which just results in some markets having none while you have teams like NYC that are going to have what...3-4 now...how about the league (as a single entity again) allows DP's in "less attractive" markets to receive higher salaries/other benefits.

I dunno what those benefits are - higher salaries for one obviously, but what else I'm not sure, but I think the league itself should do a better job of incentiveizing/selling those "less attractive" markets to DP's.

It worked in the beginning - when the calibre of the league was lower and the calibre of the DP's was lower, there's no reason why it couldn't work now. Why not have the athletic companies that are sponsoring the teams kick in $$ to incent DP's to play in the market with the (logical) thought that it would result in a long-term sales increase for those brands in that geographic area due to the increased profile of the team? See - that took me all of one minute of thinking after my post to come up with. Now maybe the league has considered that, we dunno.

And yes - having DP's is no guarantee of success, I know that. But when they're quality players (like we're starting to see with a Villa and potentially a Lampard), a Bradley, a Dempsey, they will markedly improve the quality of play on the pitch and the excitement of the fan base, and I don't like that that's so limited geographically right now.

The next-CR7 could be on a playground in NYC, but statistically he's more likely not to be after all. The league seems to have strayed from the principal of trying to grow the appeal of the sport countrywide and to have focused overly on a limited number of metropolitan areas at this point.

Then again I've got a lot of issues with MLS. Love what it's done, appreciate that it's done so in a prudent and well thought out manner, but I think the league is getting too "comfortable" with itself in some senses and isn't willing to make fundamental changes that will take it to the next level (calendar changes, getting more $ into the sport, breaking the single-ownership strucutre, etc.), so I'm prone towards rants.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Part of the problem is that a lot of these big names don't want to play in many of the markets either.

If you're looking at DP's as just big names, Clint Dempsey plays in Seattle, Michael Bradley plays in Toronto. Money talks.

If you're looking at them as a tool to find very good players, Montreal, Columbus, Portland, Salt Lake and Vancouver have had no trouble using it effectively.

Bob Kraft's unwillingness to spend on the Revolution isn't due to any structural limits on MLS's part. You think you couldn't find a high-profile Portuguese or Brazilian player to play halfway between Boston and Providence?

Watching the US, on the bright side the offense looks great, even absent that wonderful goal. On the other hand.... that defense has some laaaaaaaaarge gaps in it. Maybe Kyle Beckerman over Jermaine Jones would help.

[MrBug708]

Your two examples are also both American, who are more likely to be able to play in a variety of cities. Getting big names from Europe probably have a preference to playing in Chicago, LA, or NY.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Your two examples are also both American, who are more likely to be able to play in a variety of cities. Getting big names from Europe probably have a preference to playing in Chicago, LA, or NY.

NY, LA or miami. there the only 3 cities most europeans have heard of and therefor the "sexy" cities for them to play in

[bhlloy]

Oh, those stupid uncultured Europeans. I'm sure it's nothing to do with the money they can make in those cities and it's just they are too dumb to do any research about which teams they want to play for.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

If you're looking at DP's as just big names, Clint Dempsey plays in Seattle, Michael Bradley plays in Toronto. Money talks.

If you're looking at them as a tool to find very good players, Montreal, Columbus, Portland, Salt Lake and Vancouver have had no trouble using it effectively.

Bob Kraft's unwillingness to spend on the Revolution isn't due to any structural limits on MLS's part. You think you couldn't find a high-profile Portuguese or Brazilian player to play halfway between Boston and Providence?

Watching the US, on the bright side the offense looks great, even absent that wonderful goal. On the other hand.... that defense has some laaaaaaaaarge gaps in it. Maybe Kyle Beckerman over Jermaine Jones would help.

Oh I know - I'm not necessarily being specific to the Revolution in that regard (lord knows we all know Kraft is just using them as a tax-writeoff).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Watching the US, on the bright side the offense looks great, even absent that wonderful goal. On the other hand.... that defense has some laaaaaaaaarge gaps in it. Maybe Kyle Beckerman over Jermaine Jones would help.

Defense is gappy yeah. And we're playing some talented offenses. Hence why I'm anything but optimistic.

Jozy didn't look confident at all. Whether or not there was a whistle on his 71st minute chance he still didn't finish and looked...absolutely inept.

I have zero confidence in him at the moment, which isn't a good place to be in 2 weeks before the World Cup.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not arguing that it wasn't a handball on the goal line, but to say it was "deliberate" was a stretch. His arm was right on his side.

That said - horrible fucking giveaway. WTF Chandler.

[vex]

Rossi not included for Italy, how sad.

[rowech]

Just finished watching the game -- can't believe Green was kept and Donovan sent home. That kid is clueless at this point.

[PilotMan]

I'm thinking maybe there was a backdoor deal for him (and possibly Johanssen too) if he declared.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I'm thinking maybe there was a backdoor deal for him (and possibly Johanssen too) if he declared.

It better be that in Green's case, because otherwise it's ridiculous. Johanssen belongs there, and IMO is in better form than Altidore right now. Unfortunately tactically we need that target man up front, which Jozy is and AJ isn't, and AJ's not going to replace Dempsey, so he doesn't really have a starting spot.

But Jozy is painful to watch man. Painful. He's a physical bull, but his confidence is so shattered and his touch is so wonky...I'd rather see a totally different tactic and see AJ playing over Jozy. But that ship has sailed obviously...

[PilotMan]

All Jozy is going to do at the World Cup is take up space, draw defenders, get the crap kicked out of him and hopefully he can open up space for someone else. You're right, unless he finds it soon, that's the best we can hope for. Plus you're right, there isn't anyone else who can do that, but you know, it's something that we've never had on the USMNT. So perhaps it's something that might help our chances.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

All Jozy is going to do at the World Cup is take up space, draw defenders, get the crap kicked out of him and hopefully he can open up space for someone else. You're right, unless he finds it soon, that's the best we can hope for. Plus you're right, there isn't anyone else who can do that, but you know, it's something that we've never had on the USMNT. So perhaps it's something that might help our chances.

Brian McBride was similar. As was Ching.

I just wish we played a tactic where we didn't need someone with Jozy's skill-set, because I don't think he offers a whole lot outside of what you just said, and I think there's more talented options who are more capable of putting the ball in the net, but as long as we're playing this tactic and Dempsey is taking one forward spot then Jozy's got the other one locked down.

It's frustrating.

[MrBug708]

Dempsey didn't even try this game.

[ISiddiqui]

I think saying McBride was similar is unfair to McBride. He did draw defenders and did play a target man, but was very talented and scored his fair share of goals. Basically, he was a good target man (and had the height for it as well). Altidore and Ching aren't in the same level.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

MLS' Designated Player rule is so beneficial to only a couple markets, it's ridiculous. The fact that teams can trade their DP slots has led to situations where you have teams with multiple DPs and then some with none.

Well, for those people who want MLS to be more like European leagues, this is basically approximating all the talent going to the 'big' squads, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think saying McBride was similar is unfair to McBride. He did draw defenders and did play a target man, but was very talented and scored his fair share of goals. Basically, he was a good target man (and had the height for it as well). Altidore and Ching aren't in the same level.

Similar types of players. McBride was obviously more talented - I thought about putting that caveat in my post, but I meant in terms of like...broad style of play.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, for those people who want MLS to be more like European leagues, this is basically approximating all the talent going to the 'big' squads, right?

Yeah