Werewolf XXXIII: Animal Farm (SEE POST #4 FOR ALL UPDATES)

[hoopsguy]

Pass, pretty sure he was saying that Grey would not have known about RealDeal on Day 5 - only learned about him after he died.

Thus, not able to "save" him because he is not a seer who knows roles, but instead learns roles from the dead.

[Thomkal]

Yes Hoops has it right, I was trying to do three things at once here and confused myself in the process of writing that post. Going off to watch the pregame football shows now, so I can't post any more idiotic questions.

[Lorena]

I haven't had a chance to catch up, but I skimmed really quick and noticed that Greyroofoo possibly made a role reveal.

So in the meantime

unvote Greyroofoo

until I catch up of course.

[Alan T]

Sorry I have been so quiet this weekend.. like I said on Friday, its just hard for me to get around on Weekends. .I spedread through what I missed and hopefully didn't miss alot but here are my thoughts.

I don't know who I believe more Greyroofoo or Chubby... but their stories both don't seem to work out together.. it feels like one is telling us the truth and one isn't right now.

Chubby claims he is nothing important
Chubby was sure that Hoops (the bodyguard) was bad
Chubby was sure BrianD was bad (after many of us had already been pointing him out for days already)
Chubby was sure RealDeal was bad (which we haven't verified one way or the other yet)
Chubby claims Pilkington is making kills in what seems like a reach of a scenerio right now and is still alive.

Grey claims to be moses
Grey claims Pilkington is actually dead and has been dead.
Grey claims that he will verify his role tonight


I guess I can see some scenerio where they both are good, but right now they are very opposite ideas. I had planned on voting Goldeneagle again today for the third time, but it appears today is all about Grey vs Chubby.

My vote will be for Chubby only because if we lose him, as he says he doesn't have an important role.. and his "Facts" all seem to be really off. If I voted for Grey today, we would have no ability to verify Chubby or him and it would be a bigger loss if Grey is telling the truth.

If grey is lying and doesn't verify himself tonight/tommorrow then the lynch is an easy choice.

Vote CHubby

I'll try to get back before the lynch to see where things are or if I should move my vote for some reason. I can't promise anything though

[hoopsguy]

Warning, very long timeline post coming up! Summary to follow in next post.

Having a hard time finding the post by Path on the PM/kill stuff. But while looking for it I'll pull up some timeline information on the discussion.

Post #532 (Day 3, 9:16 AM CST)- Swaggs is first to propose the PM option

Post #533 (Day 3, 9:18) - Blade is very opposed to this idea (refers to BOXER'S one-time PM, which amused me at the time. He corrects this in next post).

Post #538 (Day 3, 9:34) - Anxiety tells Pass to emerge from his ass today. Pass, any idea at all what he meant here?

Post #542 (Day 3, 10:19) - Pass tells Anxiety "Your ass reminds me of Ypsilanti". Huh? I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here. Bringing this up because Anxiety was the Night 3 kill.

Post #550 (Day 3, 11:36) - I caution against the PM option to Swaggs, saying the bodyguard may not be able to protect him (I know this for a fact, as I protected him Night 2). I also raise the idea that Pilkington may be dead (I know I have not blocked a Night 2 attack).

Post #573 (Day 3, 1:39) - Anxiety responds to an AlanT post voting for BrianD, asking for other opinions on him. Another reason I thought he might be seer, was thinking about viewing him that night. Given that he was the night kill, I'm guessing I was not only one thinking this. Looking back, I think this has been my biggest mistake of the game so far, not going back to guarding him again on Night 3.

Post #617 (Day 3, 3:57 PM) - Blade and I have been discussing Bullet as Pilkington. Re-reading this, he seems pretty insistent that Bullet was not Pilkington and strongly suggesting that Bullet was good. Could he have been Clover and gone through an elaborate ruse of painting Bek in this role? For most players I would say no, but with Blade? Hmm ... he immediately opposed the PM Swaggs in #533.

Post #651 (5:51 PM) - Swaggs returns to the "PM me" discussion.

Post #652 (5:55 PM) - Blade again opposes it.

Post #654 (6:01 PM) - Alan is in favor of this plan. I believe these are his first comments on it, although he was around earlier in the day when it was discussed.

Post #655 (6:07 PM) - Swaggs expands on the merits of this plan.

Post #660 (6:18 PM) - Anxiety posts that he was beginning to suspect Lathum of being evil, encourages us to look at his actions/posts in context of Pilkington or Squealer.

Post #662 (6:30 PM) - Bek asks Alan why he has changed his thoughts on revealing, citing two posts.

Post #664 (6:34 PM) - Alan says he is being consistent, sending a PM is not revealing.

Post #668 (6:42 PM) - I again mention that we can not assume Swaggs will be guarded tonight. I ask Path for the clarification on how the PMs work if the intended target is killed.

Post #669 (6:42 PM) - Bek is against the reveal (cited by Blade in his belief that Bek was Clover).

Post #672 (6:50 PM) - Anxiety talks about merits of a reveal.

I think its too early too. We have three reveals total. That's three goes in the bidet. Maybe a pm reveal through another as well. After that, we're done.

Now, if they have something good, then by all means reveal. If you have found that two baddies were lynched, then let us know.

What if Anxiety viewed me on Night 1 and Lathum on Night 2? His posts make a ton of sense to me in this context. Again, I want to be wrong on this because if I'm right we lost our seer.

Post #673 (6:51 PM) - Anxiety says he would prefer that Moses/Clover NOT send their PM to Swaggs on Night 3. If he was seer, he would know I'm bodyguard and could see where I was headed with my warnings to Swaggs.

Post #676 (6:55 PM) - Swaggs talks about the concept of us having "5 reveals". Really good post.

Wrong. We potentially have 5 reveals.

The seer when they out themself.

Moses, via PM.

Moses when they out themself.

Clover, via PM.

Clover when they out themself.

Post #679 (7:00 PM) - Alan asks who will be in position of trust later in game if we don't use Swaggs now?

Post #681 (7:02 PM) - I vote for Bek.

Post #683 (7:05 PM) - Anxiety follows me in voting for Bek (I'm the only person he has viewed that he trusts, so he follows my lead).

Post #685 (7:09 PM) - Swaggs is concerned that Anxiety is following me on vote, thinks we are making a move.

Post #689 (7:12 PM) - Anxiety responds to Swaggs moving his vote to him, says

I've already announced that hoops is on my trust list with you. You are not revealing anything I haven't already said.

Post #690 (7:15 PM) - AlanT moves his vote to Bek.

Post #704 (7:43 PM) - I ask Bek if he only has 20 minutes to live then what kind of information would he leave us?

Post #720 (7:51 PM) - Chubby wants a tie

Post #723 (7:53 PM) - I post vote count, Bek is ahead by 2

Post #724 (7:53 PM) - Bek says it is hopeless, he is a barnyard animal (dude, a reveal here would help if you have info!)

Post #731 (7:56 PM) - I move my vote to AE

Post #732 (7:57 PM) - Chubby wants a tie, votes for Grey

Post #734 (7:58 PM) - Anxiety does not like Chubby's "vote for tie" logic, moves vote off of Bek to Chubby. Again, he follows my lead. I'm pretty convinced at this point he is seer or wolf.

Post #736 (7:58 PM) - Chubby wants the tie, asks Anxiety to move his vote off of Bek (already happened)

Post #760 (8:28 PM) - Bek asks if he can discuss things while we wait for Path to show up. He knows he is in tie-breaker at this point.

Post #771 (9:01 PM) - the post I was looking for at the start of this timeline read. Path rules on the PMs and night kill

Just catching up. Frankly, I didn't think of how to handle that. My feeling is that I would allow them to choose another target, but to be fair I think it would have to be another target that same day -- in other words, they couldn't just decide to use it at some future time when they have someone else to trust.

I would encourage everyone to review this day, as I think it was by far the most interesting vote we have seen and you get a sense for where battle lines have been drawn in this game. I obviously selected the posts I thought were most important to my views on the game, along with providing my comments. But I would love for others to review them and point out where they differ with my thoughts.

[hoopsguy]

Summary:
1. I believe that Anxiety was the seer and hope that I have done a better job of illustrating it now than I did earlier
2. If someone does come out with a seer "reveal" I'm going to be grilling them pretty hard, so hopefully they can very clearly illustrate their views and why they chose now (as opposed to earlier/later) to come out.
3. I'm less convinced now that Bek was Clover. Blade had me strongly considering this point, but I'm back under 50% accepting this
4. I still do not quite understand Chubby's tie logic and I really want to understand where he was headed with this.
5. I do not necessarily see this as Chubby vs Grey today, but if Grey is telling the truth then Chubby has to re-examine his premises with Pilkington dead.

[Passacaglia]

Post #538 (Day 3, 9:34) - Anxiety tells Pass to emerge from his ass today. Pass, any idea at all what he meant here?

Post #542 (Day 3, 10:19) - Pass tells Anxiety "Your ass reminds me of Ypsilanti". Huh? I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here. Bringing this up because Anxiety was the Night 3 kill.

I just took his remark to mean that I had been accusing him a lot lately. Which I had -- two days in a row, I had some crackpot theory that involved him being a rev. As for my reply, well, Ypsilanti (where Anxiety is from) looks like ass.

[hoopsguy]

Very, very dead here during the football games. Hope to see a few people around between now and deadline so we can try to make a good decision today.

I will not be voting for myself or Swaggs today and, short of another person claiming Moses, won't be voting for Grey. So that leaves seven people to evaluate for today.

Chubby - claims to be simple villager, wants tie on votes, cast tie-breaker on RealDeal.
Alan T - claims to be simple villager
GoldenEagle - claims to be simple villager, won tie-breaker Day 5
Fouts - claims to be simple villager
Dodgerchick -
Passacaglia -
Thomkal -

[Greyroofoo]

i'll probably vote for whoever you're voting for

[hoopsguy]

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm not exactly owning the wolves this game. I'm 0-5 on the bodyguard block and I don't have any idea how good my voting record is. I would encourage you to offer up your thoughts on that list of seven players and tell me which ones concern you the most. Even if it is strictly gut.

[Swaggs]

Hoops, I think we need to look real hard at Golden Eagle and Chubby today.

Golden Eagle has used, what I would consider, some very standard WW tactics to keep himself out of trouble in this game. He comes in and does a pile-on vote five minutes late one day, claiming he thought the deadline was later. Also, when in danger, stating that he has something to share later...which ended up being a theory. These are things that just stand out to me as desperate to stay alive, when the heat on him was really not all that intense, in my opinion.

Chubby, I'm not sure on. He has been a very outspoken attack dog for the past few days, but so far he hasn't delivered much. I'm leaning towards thinking that he is just playing this game aggressively, stepping on toes to see how people respond, but he has gotten us off task for the past few days, in my opinion, which is a very good play for an evil player.

[Swaggs]

In fact, I am going to vote right now, just so I don't end up missing again:

Vote Golden Eagle.

Nothing concrete, but I just feel like he has tried to play us for the last several days.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not voting for him, either. At this point, giving him another day is no big gamble.

Vote GoldenEagle

Maybe his meanderings were due to drunkenness as well, but they were more backtracking than just weird, and that seems wolfish.

Pass, can you cite the posts you were referring to in your vote?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

i'll probably vote for whoever you're voting for

Why do you trust hoops so much? Nobody has confirmed his role. I could understand if you would connect yourself to swaggs, but hoops?

[hoopsguy]

Swaggs, in my list of seven players are a couple that I would prefer not to move on for at least another day. GoldenEagle is not one of them; he seems like as good a candidate as any right now.

[Swaggs]

How many revelutionaries do we think are remaining?

I am hoping no more than two and cautiously hoping on maybe just one.

[hoopsguy]

Swaggs, I don't know how to really estimate this without knowing what the lynch flavor implies. If the D2/D4 ones that did not involve rules changes implied that we got Revolutionaries then I would think we are down to 1-2 Revolutionaries left.

But if we are misreading the lynch stuff, and have been a little unlucky, there could be as many as three + Sympathizer left. I think this would represent some extreme bad luck, but I don't know he we learn more on this topic without Clover emerging to tell us.

[Swaggs]

I think we should put the real heat on Golden Eagle tonight and see if he comes out with anything. I'm guessing he will, although I'm not sure I will believe him.

[hoopsguy]

Vote count as of Post #1868:

Chubby 3 -- Grey (1841), Thomkal (1844), Alan (1854)
Grey 2 -- Fouts (1771), Chubby (1834)
GE 2 -- Pass (1838), Swaggs (1862)

Not voted - Hoops, GE, DC

[hoopsguy]

GE will vote to preserve himself. I do not want to see Grey go today, as I think we get resolution on him tomorrow. So I'm going to do what I can to keep Grey out of danger for today.

Fouts and Chubby - I think it makes sense for us to decide on Grey tomorrow. The way the vote stands right now basically forces a Chubby/GE showdown. I'm OK with this, but it feels like my hand is forced rather than getting to pick one or two on my own.

VOTE GOLDENEAGLE

[hoopsguy]

Path, can the tie-breaker randomly go back to someone who has already had it or will it always move to a new person?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts and Chubby - I think it makes sense for us to decide on Grey tomorrow. The way the vote stands right now basically forces a Chubby/GE showdown. I'm OK with this, but it feels like my hand is forced rather than getting to pick one or two on my own.

I'm not chaning my vote from one of the lamest role reveals ever.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, Grey had two posts yesterday, prior to the role reveal, where he basically stated that Pilkington was not in the game. I'll dig up the post numbers if it helps you to believe that we should wait one day before deciding on Grey.

[hoopsguy]

Found this one while going back to look at Grey posts from earlier in the game, looking to persuade Fouts ... suffice it to say, this does not help with the "reveal".

Post #1153, on Day 4

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

vote anxiety

Grey, if you were Moses then why would you cast a vote for a person who died the night before? Who you should have learned their role?

[Alan T]

I'm finally back, but I really should re-read everything from friday night till now to make sure I'm on the same page. I have alot of comments, but I found while driving on the highway, the more I thought about this game the more I ended up suspicious of everyone.. I have alot of thoughts.. played alot of scenerios through my head while on the road.. so next post will likely be really long.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, welcome back.

Grey, you posted on this when it was brought up - suggesting something along the lines of "it would be stupid for me to plan a night kill, then forget about it". I agreed with that line of thought, but it is at least equally as stupid to see the body of Anxiety as Moses and then vote for him the next day.

[Fouts]

I think there is a good chance that Grey is squealer. He could know roles of people, who have since been killed, and then claim them as his own. While lynching him would not help us in the ratio, it would stop the misinformation.

If he is moses, then I agree lynching him before he can prove PM with swaggs is a mistake.

I can't see a revolutionary claiming the Moses role. How could a rev have enough information to claim he is Moses, and pin a couple other roles on dead people.

I just can't think of a good reason to vote for somebody else.

[hoopsguy]

I felt like it was easier to decide on Grey tomorrow, but I'm quickly reconsidering:
1.) He comes out with reveal when he is leading on votes
2.) He initially does not specify which role he is - Clover/Moses
3.) Review of older posts shows that he voted on Day 4 for the Night kill from Day 3 which he would have viewed as Moses

Going back to look for earlier posts that suggest Pilkington was dead on Day 3 ... but I'm quickly moving into agreement with Fouts that this smells.

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I'm pretty sure the Squealer only learns Seer/No Seer and not roles. Going to double-check rules on this, then go look at Grey's Day 3 posts.

[hoopsguy]

Squealer the Propagandist -- Can view one player per night via PM. Result of view is seer/not seer only. Squealer counts as a villager in the overall ratio but will scan as (and win with) evil. Has no PM privledges.

Here is the rule.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I felt like it was easier to decide on Grey tomorrow, but I'm quickly reconsidering:
1.) He comes out with reveal when he is leading on votes
2.) He initially does not specify which role he is - Clover/Moses
3.) Review of older posts shows that he voted on Day 4 for the Night kill from Day 3 which he would have viewed as Moses

Going back to look for earlier posts that suggest Pilkington was dead on Day 3 ... but I'm quickly moving into agreement with Fouts that this smells.

Is it possible for a Rev to know the roles he claims to know?

If he is Squealer/Moses, maybe we should wait until tomorrow.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Grey, if you were Moses then why would you cast a vote for a person who died the night before? Who you should have learned their role?

It was simply a case of me not paying attention

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

looks like I need to use another "save my skin vote"

vote Alan T

I would vote for hoopsguy, but I trust him and believe it would be a huge mistake to lynch him.

You might ask him about this quote from Page 25 too Hoops.

[Greyroofoo]

hoopsguy was a leading vote getter at the time

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

i would hate to change my vote to hoopsguy, but if its to save my skin.......

And this one from the same page.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

You might ask him about this quote from Page 25 too Hoops.

Hmm, how can Moses feel so strongly about a player that is still alive?

[hoopsguy]

Grey didn't say anything about Pilkington on Day 3, despite the fact that he was in a tie for the vote that day.

[hoopsguy]

I had re-read these posts earlier. I had made my bodyguard reveal earlier that day, but I also thought they came out pretty strong in their level of support. This is where I thought he might be seer (thinking I may have been mistaken on Anxiety, who I initially thought was seer) and it is why I have not gone hard after him earlier in the game.

He also made a post in that same general area stating he thought both Blade and I were good and he hoped we would stop fighting each other.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Grey didn't say anything about Pilkington on Day 3, despite the fact that he was in a tie for the vote that day.

Any idea who had the tiebreaker? You would think moses would reveal if he were going down.

[Swaggs]

Grey is going to be proven by his actions tonight.

I'd prefer we get a solid block on GE and see how he reacts.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so I'm a little torn right now. We know about Grey tomorrow with 100% certainty. Unless we are in end game right now (don't know how we could know this) it makes sense to hold off on him.

On the Anxiety vote, he either made a really bad play as a Revolutionary (or one of their allies) or a really bad play as Moses. I'm not sure how to determine which one.

The fact is that no one has emerged to challenge his claim. Either the real Moses or the Seer could have done so, if they are alive. We do still have 50% of the players in the game alive, so it is far from a sure thing that these roles would be gone.

Grey was behind on the vote and maybe he thought it was worth taking the risk of a fake reveal. But it only buys him one day, so I don't think the risk/reward was quite worth it. I would expect a fake seer play before I would expect a fake Moses play because they can then target a player instead of leaving us to pick the alternative player in the 1:1 trade.

[Greyroofoo]

unvote chubby
vote GoldenEagle

[hoopsguy]

Dodgerchick, GoldenEagle, and Chubby are going to control the vote as it stands now. I'm hoping people do show up to get their votes in.

[Chubby]

if Swaggs is killed tonight, and grey alive

IF grey is seer

who does he tell?
whoever he tells won't be known good, the only known good guy by all is Swaggs.

[Chubby]

vote count?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Chubby

if Swaggs is killed tonight, and grey alive

IF grey is seer

who does he tell?
whoever he tells won't be known good, the only known good guy by all is Swaggs.

In my opinion, I would be surprised if either Grey or I are targetted tonight.

The revs will be playing a potentially very costly game of chance with hoops if they do. If I'm a rev, I doubt I risk a botched kill attempt AND a chance of getting revealed.

[Fouts]

Ok, after reading the posts on the Bek/Grey tie, it became obvious to me that Bek was a good guy. One guy (Chubby) kept pushing for a tie, but for the life of me I can't understand why. Maybe he knew who had the lynch vote.

The tiebreaker had to come from one of the following: BrianD, Alan, Realdeal, or Grey. Chubby's vote tied it up, allowing the tiebreaker to make the decision (which was not his vote).

unvote Grey

vote Chubby

[Alan T]

I think this is a good point to re-look at alot of the players both past and present..

1. Anxiety -- KILLED NIGHT 3 - When hoops first brought up his thoughts that Anxiety was the seer, I didn't put alot into it, didn't really see it. The posts Hoops made today about Anxiety's behavor seem to make me feel definitly something was up there.. either Anxiety knew hoops's allegiance due to being bad or the seer as hoops said. I had partially assumed that the seer had just stayed quiet up till recently since he most likely wasted several days during the middle of the game scanning Hoops, Blade and myself due to all of the ruckus we caused days 3-5. I started backing off Blade a bit during the middle of that after thinking things through that it was very unlikely if the seer had found any of us 3 to be bad we would have known it by then. I also felt fairly comfortable with Hoops's reveal due to that, and I started paying a bit more attention to some of Blade's hints and thought he was hinting that he was moses. Even to right now I partially wonder if he was moses and Grey is lying to us.. Blade is sometimes really subtle about things, but I've played enough with him I thought I picked that up there. (Ie: transfering that he thought Chubby was moses and used that for his beliefs even if some of them Chubby didnt actually believe). I hope Anxiety wasn't the seer, but the points Hoops made and the fact we have not heard from him either clearing many of us or damning anyone at this point in the end game just makes me fear he is gone.

6. BrianD -- LYNCHED DAY 4 - When Brian died, I was convinced that he was bad, the rules did not change only reassured me of that. Even to this day I strongly feel that Brian might have been Napolean. I wondered if Brian was indeed a revolutionary if the other revolutionaries would be out in front of the discussions like Brian was. Brian was very active involved in every conversation, voted early but never provided original material. He rode on the coattails of every single idea. One thing I have been intrigued about however is watching a couple people (1 still in the game in Chubby) who jumped on the Brian bandwagon after it started and trying to use that as leverage for trust.

7. RealDeal -- LYNCHED DAY 5 - I'm not really sure what his death told us.. I voted for Goldeneagle yesterday, and every time I have voted for Goldeneagle some tiebreak or last minute moves came out to save him. (Usually ironically enough Grey and Chubby were involved if I remember right). I guess we don't really have any way to confirm what Realdeal was, but he swore even after his death (perhaps even not in the spirit of the game) that Chubby set him up. Chubby also was 100% certain Hoops is bad, and still does not acknowledge him as the bodyguard.. I'm not sure exactly what that means.

19. Bek -- LYNCHED DAY 3 - When Bek died, Blade swore up and down that he was Clover. We still haven't seen any sign of clover, and all this talk about Grey coming out and his reveal makes me wonder... Grey is Clover still alive or have you gotten his information as well? If Clover is out there somewhere, thats something that could damn Grey if this is a false reveal.

9. Blade6119 -- KILLED NIGHT 5 - I was trying to figure out why Blade was still alive on day 5. For that matter I was trying to figure out why i was still alive. Its unusual for me to go this far into any game and there has to be some reason. One thought I had was because I've said repeatedly that I have no special role, perhaps the bad guys were so focused on trying to find the seer(s). Another part of me wondered if its because I either was dead right about my thoughts that GoldenEagle is bad and killing me would increase suspicions.. but after a bit I think I just settled that Blade and I and our fussing for 3 days at each other was doing the wolves job for them. I don't find it a coeincidence that finally when Blade started believing some of what I was saying and changed his opinion about others that Suddenly Blade was killed. I have a bad feeling this means bad news for me tonight too Either way I'm not important enough to guard so if I'm the choice so be it.

3. Swaggs - Not much to say here, there is no way that you can deny his being good. I wonder why he is still alive though, it can't help the wolves by having a known good guy here that will never collect votes. My only guess is that they just don't want to run the risk of running into the bodyguard. This might be a sign they are down to low numbers (perhaps 1 wolf left even) if they are unwilling to take any risks on this.

14. hoopsguy - I said a few days ago that if Hoops really is bad and pulled a gusty reveal without any way of knowing if the bodyguard was dead yet or not.. then he deserves to win. That said, I think it has to be pretty much assumed that he's what he says he is by this point. Chubby pushed at him for days, and continued to push even after the reveal until he didnt have enough backing any more and changed directions.

The next three get lumped together for a special reason:
11. Dodgerchick
16. Passacaglia
17. Conflaguration -- replaced by Thomkal night 4

All three get lumped together because.. well I honestly can't remember much about any of them as far as stances they have taken. All three have participated in conversations and tossed out ideas, but for the majority of the game all three have stayed pretty low key and under the radar. For that reason, I don't have much feel good or bad about any of them.. but once I run out of people I have bad feelings about I likely will look at this group.

10. ardent enthusiast -- replaced by Fouts day 4 - Fouts is intriguing me some.. I pushed him pretty hard right as he entered the game. I think if there is any chance Pilkington is still around in the game (as small as there is of that at this point), its Fouts. If what Grey said is true, then that obviously isn't the case anyways. Fouts coming in and messing up the PM message set off my alarms since I kind of trapped him there. I let off when Path supported him however, and if I had to guess I would guess 80% that Fouts is likely good. I'm still trying to get a feel for him though in a shorter time now.

The last three are the ones I have negative feelings about right now..

8. GoldenEagle - Its no secret that I've hammered GE about his inconsistancies, his poor votes and poor timing. I think if BrianD was indeed a wolf, it wouldn't suprise me at all if GE was his quiet buddy.

4. Chubby - I've said alot about Chubby in many of the other references above. I don't usually take well to people saying they are completely sure about someone and it turns out being false. Thats either someone really hampering the village or a wolf in most cases. I don't have much else to say about Chubby that I haven't already said above in other references.

2. Greyroofoo - This is the toughest one.. with someone revealing a role like he says he is, it begs to buy another day. I can't possibly see why he would reveal that role if he's only going to get lynched the next day. I guess my biggest concern here is , is there any end game strategy where just buying one more day will help the wolves win? What if he is actually Squealer and his bodycount counts against his team, he likely will want to die to lynch instead of a night action anyways.. This role reveal would be the perfect reveal to buy an extra day, get a non-wolf lynched, get another person who doesn't count for them lynched (him) the next day.. and basically give the wolves three more kills.. Either way this is a huge gamble, there are so many holes in his story I really really feel that he is making it up.. but I just don't see how I can force myself to vote for him here just in case he is telling the truth, and just played the role poorly (ie: he's been on the line almost getting lynched several times. You mean to me he wouldn't have passed his info to swaggs at some point by now?) I really think grey is playing a gamble that moses and clover are both dead due to no one PMing Swaggs and now with his butt on the line today he makes up a drunken reveal to buy himself another day and buy the wolves 3 kills.

I dunno.. but like I said, its very hard to not give him that day just in case.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Fouts

The tiebreaker had to come from one of the following: BrianD, Alan, Realdeal, or Grey. Chubby's vote tied it up, allowing the tiebreaker to make the decision (which was not his vote).

I find that logic slightly flawed.

To me the tiebreaker could've come from ANYONE who didn't vote for me.

[Alan T]

Great, in the time it took me to type that all up, you all bring up the points I was going to bring up about grey! Well I guess I came up with the same concern about grey that hoops and fouts did!

Originally Posted by Fouts

Ok, after reading the posts on the Bek/Grey tie, it became obvious to me that Bek was a good guy. One guy (Chubby) kept pushing for a tie, but for the life of me I can't understand why. Maybe he knew who had the lynch vote.

The tiebreaker had to come from one of the following: BrianD, Alan, Realdeal, or Grey. Chubby's vote tied it up, allowing the tiebreaker to make the decision (which was not his vote).

unvote Grey

vote Chubby

If Im not mistaken Fouts, BrianD (who I still today feel was bad) came out admiting he had the tiebreaker that day that lynched bek on that tie vote with grey