Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

A Missouri fan came over to Hogville.net today and posted the following:


Thanks for taking Mike Anderson
« on: Today at 11:44:09 AM »
Quote
We are ending up with the better end of this deal. No Question.

That thread is pretty entertaining right about now.

Never understood shit like that either. I enjoy having a "lively" debate on here with KU or Arkansas fans but why go on their boards to cause shit? Even if Painter did come what is accomplished besides just being a major asshole?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by panerd

I will admit I got caught up in the hype the last day or two but hindsight on this one is pretty clear. Why would the guy leave his alma mater for a job that at best is the equivalent of what he has now? People were saying facilities but that is always fanspeak for I have no other explanation. A lot of Mizzou fans are pissed at our AD but I am happy that he wants to try to land a big name coach. We will ultimately end up with a mid-major or retread but at least we are playing the game.

I thought Missouri had a good shot at Painter as well given how inept the Purdue AD seemed to be. Purdue is a great school with some great coaches, but it seems the AD is a penny pincher per Tiller and Keady's comment during this whole thing. I'm not sure why the Purdue AD is so cheap given their Big Ten contract, but it almost lost him a lifer as a basketball coach. Maybe the guy learns from his mistakes.

As for Missouri, credit their AD for taking a chance when most thought it was a pipe dream. When I first heard Painter's name I was shocked it was even being publicly mentioned given how much of a pipe dream it was. But thanks to some ineptitude from the Purdue AD it almost became a reality. I'm not sure who Missouri targets next.

[sterlingice]

Well, exactly- where's the harm in taking the shot?

They weren't going after Coach K or something unattainable but a somewhat long shot at a definite upgrade. Frankly, kudos to Mizzou for trying.

SI

[dawgfan]

No harm at all in trying, and they had a fair shot at him. Purdue finally stepped up at the 11th hour to address Painter's concerns, but it wasn't nearly as much of a longshot as I'd assumed it would be when the rumors first started.

[cartman]

Fresh off of his performance in the Mike Anderson saga, here's another batch of spot-on rumor sourcing and analysis from MBBF:

Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 36 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 36 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 36 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 36 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 36 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 37 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 38 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 38 - Front Office Football Central
Official 2010-11 College Basketball Thread - Page 38 - Front Office Football Central

[MizzouRah]

Yep, Painter got his raise, good for him.

Now we can talk about who do we go after next?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Weren't people saying it was shitty how Anderson walked out on his upcoming seniors? How do those Mizzou fans feel about Painter walking out on Hummel?

Define "people"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Yep, Painter got his raise, good for him.

Now we can talk about who do we go after next?

I sincerely doubt that MU offers Shaka $2M, but seems like a pretty realistic list. Wouldn't be surprised to see Pastner pop up either. I don't think Mooney and Pastner are off the radar just because they signed an extension.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/mizzou...ng-shaka-29596

[Arles]

To be fair to Missouri, Arizona was left at the alter by 2-3 guys (Pitino, Floyd, ..) before landing Miller. I count my blessings at every Arizona game that the other guys passed.

All you can ask for is an aggressive AD who sells the program. If you're patient enough (and a little lucky), you'll end up with a good coach.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

To be fair to Missouri, Arizona was left at the alter by 2-3 guys (Pitino, Floyd, ..) before landing Miller. I count my blessings at every Arizona game that the other guys passed.

All you can ask for is an aggressive AD who sells the program. If you're patient enough (and a little lucky), you'll end up with a good coach.

I'll add that, although MU fans are disappointed, Painter made the right decision to stay at Purdue despite the issues at Purdue. Two of his older kids didn't want to move and leave their friends behind. The relationship with the AD is still strained, but hell hath no fury like a teenager scorned. Kudos to him for putting family first in that regard.

[Young Drachma]

lol

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'll add that, although MU fans are disappointed, Painter made the right decision to stay at Purdue despite the issues at Purdue. Two of his older kids didn't want to move and leave their friends behind. The relationship with the AD is still strained, but hell hath no fury like a teenager scorned. Kudos to him for putting family first in that regard.

[Ragone]

Pastner reminds me of quin snyder.. i doubt missouri would go that way..

To be honest, pitino wasn't leaving louisville.. and he'll be there till he retires.. he loves churchill downs and local italian restaurants.. maybe a little too much.. and i actually feel safe saying that.

Pretty sure Brad stevens is out as well, and pretty sure shaka smart may stick around at vcu for one more year.. and hope for a (no offense mu fans) bigger job.

[cartman]

McClellan: High school coach would be slam dunk for Mizzou

[Ragone]

I like the premise of the high school coach at a power conference school.. they'd be killed in recruiting though by other schools..

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Pastner reminds me of quin snyder.. i doubt missouri would go that way..

Pretty sure Brad stevens is out as well, and pretty sure shaka smart may stick around at vcu for one more year.. and hope for a (no offense mu fans) bigger job.

I agree with the QS comparison and already made it earlier in the thread. Stevens is definitely out. I doubt Shaka holds out. If MU offers the numbers talked about in that article, he'd be a fool to not jump for the money while his stock is up.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I agree with the QS comparison and already made it earlier in the thread. Stevens is definitely out. I doubt Shaka holds out. If MU offers the numbers talked about in that article, he'd be a fool to not jump for the money while his stock is up.

Depends on what happens this weekend. If VCU manages to lose in the Final Four, it's one thing. But if they screw around and make the Final or (gasp) win the whole thing...his stock might vault through the roof and he'll have a lot more options than he already does.

I don't see him bolting for the first hot job that comes around, because he doesn't have to do that. This isn't Keno Davis at Drake a few years ago. He's got a lot of flexibility because he's young, he's a media darling and this isn't a run that's likely to be removed from the public consciousness.

That buys you options and so, I'd hesitate to brand him a fool as if Mizzou is the only school in the country willing to pay the guy $2m as if they're doing some kind of favor. Yeah, he's a 2nd year coach. But...he's not just any second-year head coach. He'll get his one way or another.

[Neuqua]

Local news reports Oklahoma is talking to Illinois' Bruce Weber.

[Neuqua]

Twitter reports say Weber to OU is done.

[DeToxRox]

If Weber went to OU I can actually see Illinois as a place Brad Stevens would consider.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If Weber went to OU I can actually see Illinois as a place Brad Stevens would consider.

Stevens didn't go to Oregon for $3 million per year. He wouldn't even fly out on the jet for an interview. No way he's going to Champaign.

Can you even imagine what it would take to get that dude right now? Yeah it's in the Midwest. Sure he grew up in the Big Ten yadda. The IU talk I could see in terms of believing he could raise it to prominence and become the Bob Knight at Indiana's flagship. But...save for that? If he didn't go last year, he'll be hard than an impacted tooth to pull out of Butler now.

Last year his lawyer wife did the negotiating. This year? IMG.

Dude isn't leaving unless Coach K retires tomorrow, calls him and says "I want you to take over my legacy here at Duke."

And even then...

[MrBug708]

As for Painter, looking back it makes since that he was never going to take the offer from Missouri once Martin was hired at Tennessee.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Stevens didn't go to Oregon for $3 million per year. He wouldn't even fly out on the jet for an interview. No way he's going to Champaign.

Can you even imagine what it would take to get that dude right now? Yeah it's in the Midwest. Sure he grew up in the Big Ten yadda. The IU talk I could see in terms of believing he could raise it to prominence and become the Bob Knight at Indiana's flagship. But...save for that? If he didn't go last year, he'll be hard than an impacted tooth to pull out of Butler now.

Last year his lawyer wife did the negotiating. This year? IMG.

Dude isn't leaving unless Coach K retires tomorrow, calls him and says "I want you to take over my legacy here at Duke."

And even then...

A few things wrong here. I doubt that Stevens was offered 3 million dollars, that would have been more than Chip Kelly was making at Oregon last offseason, coming off a PAC-10 title season.

I think the IMG hire was made for when he leaves, not to stick around longer. It's not like Butler has a never ending source of revenue to find ways to keep paying Stevens.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

A few things wrong here. I doubt that Stevens was offered 3 million dollars, that would have been more than Chip Kelly was making at Oregon last offseason, coming off a PAC-10 title season.

I think the IMG hire was made for when he leaves, not to stick around longer. It's not like Butler has a never ending source of revenue to find ways to keep paying Stevens.

Even if it was $2-3 million...those are the number being thrown around now too. Yeah, he's "just the HC at Butler" but he's done what just the active coach at [insert major school here] has done. Plus that's what outlets were reporting the $3m even if it was hyperbole. I didn't pull the number out of thin air.

Final Four > Pac-10 title in football

I don't think the IMG deal was even about his coaching at all. I think the IMG is for auxiliary deals and endorsements and such. I just checked and the deal is right. IMG only represents his non-contract interests. They signed him last June. The wife is a labor lawyer and handles the contract side of things, still.

Eager to cement that conviction in writing, Collier came back with an offer for a 12-year deal. Though Stevens later hired IMG to manage his corporate contracts, he does not retain an agent to handle his coaching agreements. His wife, Tracy, a labor and employment attorney, looked over the language and gave him the OK to sign. Brad Stevens, Inc. is literally a mom-and-pop operation.
"It was flattering to hear all the talk, but at the same time I think we have a really unique thing here," Stevens says. "I really do feel blessed to be a part of it, and I want to continue moving in this direction.

I think if it were anyone else, it's a no-brainer he leaves. But to coach back to back Final Fours in your home town isn't an everyday occurrence. He literally has close to a job for life as you can get in the game unless they magically start to lose a lot in a decade or some kind of scandal gets uncovered.

But it just seems like if he didn't go last year -- even if it was for "only $2 million" -- I can't see him bolting now. While it's incredulous, I just don't think you can put a price on comfort.

Mark Few's gig isn't even as sweet as Stevens gig has the potential to be and he's not bolting from Spokane and people have generally stopped asking. Granted his star was never, ever has white hot as Stevens is, but...I'm just not sure it's going to matter.

But if he does go, it's going to have to be an offer that completely blows other ones out of the water. Why leave the safety and security he has for money he's already turned down once before? Doesn't make any sense.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Even if it was $2-3 million...those are the number being thrown around now too. Yeah, he's "just the HC at Butler" but he's done what just the active coach at [insert major school here] has done. Plus that's what outlets were reporting the $3m even if it was hyperbole. I didn't pull the number out of thin air.

Final Four > Pac-10 title in football

That means very little. I used it strictly as a basing point. I think a BCS bowl win = Final Four appearance. Chip Kelly made 3.4 million this past season. To compare notes with Stevens, UCLA pays Ben Howland barely 2.1 million dollars. Jay Wright makes 1.8 million per year. Roy Williams makes 1.65 million per year. Jaime Dixon makes 1.3 million per year. Boeheim makes 1.3 million dollars per year.

I don't think the IMG deal was even about his coaching at all. I think the IMG is for auxiliary deals and endorsements and such.

I think if it were anyone else, it's a no-brainer he leaves. But to coach back to back Final Fours in your home town isn't an everyday occurrence. He literally has close to a job for life as you can get in the game unless they magically start to lose a lot in a decade or some kind of scandal gets uncovered.

He has major job security, no one is denying it.

But it just seems like if he didn't go last year -- even if it was for "only $2 million" -- I can't see him bolting now. While it's incredulous, I just don't think you can put a price on comfort.

2 million is a lot, but he can afford to be choosy, not just take any Big-6 jobs that opens up first.

[quote]Mark Few's gig isn't even as sweet as Stevens gig has the potential to be and he's not bolting from Spokane and people have generally stopped asking. Granted his star was never, ever has white hot as Stevens is, but...I'm just not sure it's going to matter.

But if he does go, it's going to have to be an offer that completely blows other ones out of the water. Why leave the safety and security he has for money he's already turned down once before? Doesn't make any sense.

Butler will never be able to offer him the kind of money to keep him long term. Few has turned down overtures from UCLA, Arizona, and Kentucky at one time and it's gotten him a salary of less than a million dollars. Stevens will probably push around a million dollars tops at Butler and that could be fine like it obviously has been for Few, but to think that it doesn't make sense? After this year, Stevens star will likely never be brighter than it is now.

Unless you think that he's not that great of a coach and going anywhere else would likely expose his limited abilities and then it does make a lot more sense.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That means very little. I used it strictly as a basing point. I think a BCS bowl win = Final Four appearance. Chip Kelly made 3.4 million this past season. To compare notes with Stevens, UCLA pays Ben Howland barely 2.1 million dollars. Jay Wright makes 1.8 million per year. Roy Williams makes 1.65 million per year. Jaime Dixon makes 1.3 million per year. Boeheim makes 1.3 million dollars per year.

Fair enough. Good for comparison sake.

Butler will never be able to offer him the kind of money to keep him long term.

Unless you think that he's not that great of a coach and going anywhere else would likely expose his limited abilities and then it does make a lot more sense.

No, I'm saying that not everyone is motivated by money that way. His compensation package has to top a million. If he's making $750k in salary, coupled with all sorts of other kickbacks like a free car and the university probably buying him a house or the stuff they essentially do for university presidents to keep him...knowing he can stay like a tenured professor and never leave...in his hometown where his parents remain and in the same state where he was born, raised and met his wife.

I dunno. I think it makes sense if you're a mercenary trying to squeeze out every penny. I think on the flip side if you're happy in the place you live, there's no premium on that. The AD is a former coach. The guy who left so Stevens could have this job is currently out of a job now.

Seeing that can help you understand how cold the business is. Sure, you leave and get a nice payout and so forth. But the contrast is the other side. Being able to "be" the guy who put Butler basketball on the map. Not to mention the financial security of essentially knowing you won't have to worry about money again.

I'm not saying 99% of guys wouldn't go. I'm saying that given the unique circumstances here, that it seems like if he were gonna go it'd have been last year and that Two Final Fours into the gig, you think "why do I need to go some school that hasn't gone to back to back Final Fours just to prove something or to make another million?

[Young Drachma]

That said, Shaka Smart probably won't hang past this year. Or at the worst, he leaves next year. But VCU understands this drill by now, as he'd be the third coach they've sent to a mid-major in recent years. With his PG leaving and coming off a flukey year...I don't really see the purpose in hanging around in the competitive CAA and getting battered so people can be like "well, he wasn't that good anyway."

He's saying all of the right things now and I think he'd obviously still be in demand. But I think given his trajectory with having coached an assistant in so many places, coupled with his good relationships with people at majors like Purnell and Donovan who provide references beyond what he's done on the court... seems like sky is the limit for him.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I sincerely doubt that MU offers Shaka $2M, but seems like a pretty realistic list. Wouldn't be surprised to see Pastner pop up either. I don't think Mooney and Pastner are off the radar just because they signed an extension.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/mizzou...ng-shaka-29596

I think Mooney is definitely off the radar.

I also don't see what anyone sees in Tulsa's coach, Wojcik. They had a good run of tourney appearances and a couple of wins a few years back, but they haven't done much in a crappy conference in several years.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Stevens didn't go to Oregon for $3 million per year. He wouldn't even fly out on the jet for an interview. No way he's going to Champaign.

Can you even imagine what it would take to get that dude right now? Yeah it's in the Midwest. Sure he grew up in the Big Ten yadda. The IU talk I could see in terms of believing he could raise it to prominence and become the Bob Knight at Indiana's flagship. But...save for that? If he didn't go last year, he'll be hard than an impacted tooth to pull out of Butler now.

Last year his lawyer wife did the negotiating. This year? IMG.

Dude isn't leaving unless Coach K retires tomorrow, calls him and says "I want you to take over my legacy here at Duke."

And even then...

Not saying this is fact but a guy who posts on Michigan forums (HERE WE GO!) who is connect to the Indiana HS basketball scene said that Stevens wants to stay in the Midwest. HS coaches believe Indiana is his dream job, but he also would entertain Illinois. Michigan State is also on his short list but since Izzo isn't leaving anytime soon that isn't likely an option.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by panerd

I will admit I got caught up in the hype the last day or two but hindsight on this one is pretty clear. Why would the guy leave his alma mater for a job that at best is the equivalent of what he has now? People were saying facilities but that is always fanspeak for I have no other explanation. A lot of Mizzou fans are pissed at our AD but I am happy that he wants to try to land a big name coach. We will ultimately end up with a mid-major or retread but at least we are playing the game.

This is just the way you get raises. I did the same thing as a low-paid but well-respected attorney working for the state. When I thought I wasn't valued appropriately (2 or 3 times during my 4 years there), I went out and got an offer, my current bosses met it, and I stuck around until I got an offer that was way above what I could expect to be paid by the state, and I bolted. I had no reason to want to leave a 9-5 job with 4 weeks vacation - I just wanted to be paid more money because I was in a position to demand it.

That's the way the business world works.

[DeToxRox]

For the record, if Weber leaves Illinois I think Anthony Grant would be an excellent hire there.

[Butter]

Would Illinois fans be pretty happy to see Weber go? I thought he was potentially on the hot seat there, even with them scraping a 9 seed this year.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Would Illinois fans be pretty happy to see Weber go? I thought he was potentially on the hot seat there, even with them scraping a 9 seed this year.

There's a rumor Illinois AD is on the hot seat and could be gone next year. I'd assume if he goes the new AD would relish a chance to bring in his own guys. Zook is probably safe for now but Weber would be the one to go.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

That said, Shaka Smart probably won't hang past this year. Or at the worst, he leaves next year. But VCU understands this drill by now, as he'd be the third coach they've sent to a mid-major in recent years. With his PG leaving and coming off a flukey year...I don't really see the purpose in hanging around in the competitive CAA and getting battered so people can be like "well, he wasn't that good anyway."

He's saying all of the right things now and I think he'd obviously still be in demand. But I think given his trajectory with having coached an assistant in so many places, coupled with his good relationships with people at majors like Purnell and Donovan who provide references beyond what he's done on the court... seems like sky is the limit for him.

I think smart has to leave this year. I don't agree with the assessment that he will be in demand no matter what in a few years (not saying you are saying that or thinking that, just in general). His stock won't be this hot next year and every year there are always hot coaches that are the flash in the pan. The odds of him getting to another final 4 at VCU are just crazy high, so I think he would be dumb to wait. Take that huge paycheck why you can get it, get out and do the best job you can wherever. I personally think the fall back options will be better for him due to his connections than if he stayed and let this star fizzle a bit.

He's got a lot of flexibility because he's young, he's a media darling and this isn't a run that's likely to be removed from the public consciousness.

All very very true except the public consciousness one I think. I cant recall but I don't think George Mason was celebrated more than 1 year after their run at the final 4. Anyone else have a better memory than I do here?

[Swaggs]

Timely link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...y-database.htm

Has all of the tourney teams' coaching salaries.

A couple of notes:

Holy crap, Rick Pitino makes $7.5-million (and can get over $8-million with bonuses)! EDIT: Actually, looking at the methodology he got a one-time, $3.6-million retention bonus that inflates his university compensation this season.

It looks like Matt Painter's compensation may not be as bad as advertised. Guaranteed $1.3-million and over a million more in bonuses availalbe. Not too bad, unless a huge, huge chunk of that is tied to winning a title.

Northern Colorado's BJ Hill makes "only" $85K. Pretty hard to believe.

Brad Stevens is listed at $434K. I thought I had read that he made closer to a million.

[Swaggs]

Heh... looking at that table I posted, if you click on a name the coach's picture pops up and every picture I looked at (like 20) has the coach screaming or making a terrible face.

Someone at USA today has a sense of humor and way too much time on their hands.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by muns

All very very true except the public consciousness one I think. I cant recall but I don't think George Mason was celebrated more than 1 year after their run at the final 4. Anyone else have a better memory than I do here?

Nah, you've got it about right I think.

To split hairs, because of his unusual name & relatively distinct appearance, Shaka Smart might have a little more staying power in the consciousness than VCU, but the difference still becomes negligible relatively quickly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Brad Stevens is listed at $434K. I thought I had read that he made closer to a million.

I think that gap might be mostly the difference between "salary" and "total compensation". IIRC, the figure for everything -- salary, perks, benefits, endorsements, other revenue sources like camps & whatnot -- is about $900k.

[MrBug708]

Mike Dunlap to Missouri is picking up steam but I cant imagine that would go over well. I think he'd make an excellent coach

[Butter]

I heard Mike Dunlap is going to be at the Cardinals game today.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I heard Mike Dunlap is going to be at the Cardinals game today.

Is he going to throw the first pitch at Painter?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Timely link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...y-database.htm

Has all of the tourney teams' coaching salaries.

A couple of notes:

Holy crap, Rick Pitino makes $7.5-million (and can get over $8-million with bonuses)! EDIT: Actually, looking at the methodology he got a one-time, $3.6-million retention bonus that inflates his university compensation this season.

It looks like Matt Painter's compensation may not be as bad as advertised. Guaranteed $1.3-million and over a million more in bonuses availalbe. Not too bad, unless a huge, huge chunk of that is tied to winning a title.

Northern Colorado's BJ Hill makes "only" $85K. Pretty hard to believe.

Brad Stevens is listed at $434K. I thought I had read that he made closer to a million.

On the Northern Colorado coach, that's probably about right. UNC (as they call it in Greeley) isn't exactly a metropolitan school in a city that's not that large either. Also the President only makes $212,500 with deferred compensation of $32000, so...they're probably not going to pay a basketball coach big money, as he's the new guy who replaced the last guy who went to coach at CU-Boulder.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Mike Dunlap to Missouri is picking up steam but I cant imagine that would go over well. I think he'd make an excellent coach

Agreed on this. He might lack the sizzle they want in terms of the headline grabbing, but...he won't break the bank and from what I've read about him, I think he's a solid coach. He was on Wyoming's radar screen until they realized their windshield had bugs and bird shit and coaches backed away from it left and right.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Timely link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...y-database.htm

Has all of the tourney teams' coaching salaries.

A couple of notes:

Holy crap, Rick Pitino makes $7.5-million (and can get over $8-million with bonuses)! EDIT: Actually, looking at the methodology he got a one-time, $3.6-million retention bonus that inflates his university compensation this season.

It looks like Matt Painter's compensation may not be as bad as advertised. Guaranteed $1.3-million and over a million more in bonuses availalbe. Not too bad, unless a huge, huge chunk of that is tied to winning a title.

Northern Colorado's BJ Hill makes "only" $85K. Pretty hard to believe.

Brad Stevens is listed at $434K. I thought I had read that he made closer to a million.

In an era of massive education cuts how can public universities justify these outrageous salaries?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

In an era of massive education cuts how can public universities justify these outrageous salaries?

Because athletic programs are some of the best marketing tools many schools have. The dollar value of the imaging & awareness from a single NCAA tournament appearance covers the salary of any basketball coach in the country.

If you're Harvard, Yale, Cal Tech, whatever, then maybe you don't need that. Everybody else though ...

[JPhillips]

I'm really skeptical that tourny/bowl appearances really drive tuition and non-athletic donations. But even if they do, most athletic departments are drains on the school's general fund. If academics are getting cut to the degree they are, public athletic departments need to be trimmed as well.

Imagine the outrage at a professor's salary 1/10 that of Pitino.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Because athletic programs are some of the best marketing tools many schools have. The dollar value of the imaging & awareness from a single NCAA tournament appearance covers the salary of any basketball coach in the country.

If you're Harvard, Yale, Cal Tech, whatever, then maybe you don't need that. Everybody else though ...

I believe that I read that applications to Butler were up over 50% after their run last season.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm really skeptical that tourny/bowl appearances really drive tuition and non-athletic donations. But even if they do, most athletic departments are drains on the school's general fund. If academics are getting cut to the degree they are, public athletic departments need to be trimmed as well.

Imagine the outrage at a professor's salary 1/10 that of Pitino.

Not to get too far off topic, but I find it outrageous that a large number of professor's at my University make ~$150K+ and teach 3-6 hours a week (and get Summers off or more compensation to teach over the Summer AND get paid sabaticals every 4-years).

I know some of them bring in humungous grants and advise and write/publish and sit on numerous committees, but the University system is far more broken than most athletic departments (again in my opinion). To me, there is no reason why most professors cannot teach 12-15 hours a semester without killing themselves.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm really skeptical that tourny/bowl appearances really drive tuition and non-athletic donations. But even if they do, most athletic departments are drains on the school's general fund. If academics are getting cut to the degree they are, public athletic departments need to be trimmed as well.

Imagine the outrage at a professor's salary 1/10 that of Pitino.

Butler, VCU getting more than wins with this Final Four | Beyond the Arc

Even if Butler or VCU fail to win the NCAA tournament, a Final Four berth will pay huge dividends for years to come. And not just in money, either.

The Bulldogs and Rams figure to reap rewards in recruiting and exposure while the schools can expect massive rises in admissions, advertising and overall revenue.

Not bad for winning four games in March.

When George Mason made the Final Four in 2006, a study conducted by one of the school’s professors estimated the school reaped more than $677 million in free media coverage. Also, admissions inquiries rose 350 percent, active alumni increased 25 percent and unique viewers to the official athletic department web site shot up 702 percent.

When Butler played in last year’s Final Four, the school estimated it was worth nearly $450 million to the school in advertising. This year could be down a bit because of VCU’s addition, but it’ll still be massive.

The schools can do even better for themselves by taking advantage of the moment in recruiting, too. They won’t start bringing in five-star players, but they’ll be able to attract interest in guys they wouldn’t have before and able to improve their overall class quality.

“Take a peek at what Butler was able to accomplish this last year. They got Kellen Dunham, who’s potentially a Top 100 player,” said Evan Daniels, the national recruiting analyst for Scout.com.

“Now, will it help them get into the recruiting of a different type of player? Sure. Butler was right there with Cody Zeller last year. They didn’t get him, but they were right there until the end.”

Zeller, rated as a five-star center, signed with Indiana. It’s unlikely Butler would’ve even tried recruiting him – or that Zeller would’ve considered it – without that Final Four.

“Visibility is the biggest thing,” Daniels said. “It gives them a quicker in with kids. Maybe a kid in Kentucky, maybe he didn’t know VCU. Maybe them making the Final Four is how he found out about the school. Now [coach] Shaka Smart can get on the phone and the kid’ll listen.”

However, Daniels emphasizes that the Butler and VCU coaching staffs won’t spend all their time chasing after big-name prospects. They’ve already reached the Final Four by identifying players they want for their systems, and won’t completely go away from what’s worked.

Consider what George Mason did with its first recruiting class after the ’06 Final Four. It signed one 3-star recruit in Vlad Moldoveanu and three 2-star players. Two, Cam Long and Isaiah Tate, ended up playing key roles on their season’s CAA championship team. (Moldoveanu transferred after his sophomore year to American, where he averaged nearly 20 points a game the last two years.) But all were from the D.C. area, right by the Mason campus.

After that, the Patriots branched off into New York, Florida and other areas, signed three 3-star players and built what’s become a deep, talented team.

So if Butler and VCU don’t return to the Final Four next season, don’t be surprised. But if it happens in two or three years from now, that’s where the Final Four will have paid off.

Again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm really skeptical that tourny/bowl appearances really drive tuition and non-athletic donations.

It's both simpler than that & deeper than that: they drive the desire for students to attend School X. And in some cases the general public's willingness to fund School X at Level Y. And can even elevate the profile of the school for graduates.

Imagine the outrage at a professor's salary 1/10 that of Pitino.

1/10th of his $2.25m salary (bonuses & endorsement not withstanding) is matched by nearly 60 employees at the University of Georgia, including 21 professors and 1 associate professor, as well as 10 department chairs.

Open.Georgia.gov

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Not to get too far off topic, but I find it outrageous that a large number of professor's at my University make ~$150K+ and teach 3-6 hours a week (and get Summers off or more compensation for teach over the Summer AND get paid sabaticals every 4-years).

I know some of them bring in humungous grants and advise and write/publish and sit on numerous committees, but the University system is far more broken than most athletic departments (again in my opinion). To me, there is no reason why most professors cannot teach 12-15 hours a semester without killing themselves.

To be fair, sabbaticals are usually time when they'll write a book or engage in some research. They aren't teaching, but the rockstar professor world has a very similar affect in academia that sports does to the general public.

I agree there are some pretty egregious abuses in higher ed and also that tuition has gone through the roof, that adjuncts work way too hard for too little and all that...but I don't think professors not working hard enough is really the biggest issue by and large.