POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

That Aaron Sorkin is full of terrible script ideas.

HAHAHAHAHAHAA now THIS is a great joke

[Vegas Vic]

Trump's campaign team sure as hell didn't wait very long to take the gloves off.

“INSPIRING THOUGHTS FROM KAMALA HARRIS” pic.twitter.com/khckWY5x7f

— Dan Scavino Jr.🇺🇸🦅 (@DanScavino) June 30, 2024

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

So like now is the time when all of the independents and other parties step up and put forward good candidates, right? Maybe we'll turn into England. Labor party, green party, capitalist party, uh....what else...

They've already done that, for decades. Most voters ignore them. That'll continue to happen, almost certainly.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

I don’t like them at all, but Manchin balances the ticket as VP

Why would you pick someone who alienates the base? I don't think there are a lot of Joe Manchin fans out there.

[CrimsonFox]

seriously Manchin is a turd. WOrst idea ever. STOP PICKING CENTRISTS

[RainMaker]

The VP picture is kind of interesting from a game theory perspective. People like Whitmer and Shapiro might want to wait till 2028, but waiting often screws you over. A lot can change in 4 years and I think sitting back and hoping the seas part for you is a dangerous strategy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

seriously Manchin is a turd. WOrst idea ever. STOP PICKING CENTRISTS

Especially when abortion is their strongest issue. Why on Earth would you make someone who isn't exactly a pri-choice politician your VP?

Another name I'll throw out is JB Pritzker. I don't think he has a shot because he isn't tied in enough with the donor class, but he'd be a solid pick. Real strong on abortion and a really savvy politician. And he just comes across as a jolly guy which isn't a bad person to have on the ticket.

Shapiro would probably help them the most in important states but he also comes with some risk.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The VP picture is kind of interesting from a game theory perspective. People like Whitmer and Shapiro might want to wait till 2028, but waiting often screws you over. A lot can change in 4 years and I think sitting back and hoping the seas part for you is a dangerous strategy.

WHITMER! THAT'S the name I was trying to think of. She shares death threats and attempts with trump


She is pretty hated by the right.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The VP picture is kind of interesting from a game theory perspective. People like Whitmer and Shapiro might want to wait till 2028, but waiting often screws you over. A lot can change in 4 years and I think sitting back and hoping the seas part for you is a dangerous strategy.

are you kidding....a lot can change in 4 DAYS!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

seriously Manchin is a turd. WOrst idea ever. STOP PICKING CENTRISTS

We need more centrists & moderates … from both sides.

I’m not bought into Kamala but can live with her. Assume she’ll continue Joe’s policies but do need to hear more from her on illegal immigration, China, taxes etc. But I do want to see some competition and who else we can pick.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

We need more centrists & moderates … from both sides.

I’m not bought into Kamala but can live with her. Assume she’ll continue Joe’s policies but do need to hear more from her on illegal immigration, China, taxes etc. But I do want to see some competition and who else we can pick.

so you want chaos....got it. um....I mean MORE chaos

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

We need more centrists & moderates … from both sides.

I’m not bought into Kamala but can live with her. Assume she’ll continue Joe’s policies but do need to hear more from her on illegal immigration, China, taxes etc. But I do want to see some competition and who else we can pick.

You can just be a Republican man. It's not that big of a deal.

[Edward64]

If we got more centrists & moderates from both sides, it’ll be less chaos than what we have now with extremists from both sides.

Article below said Pelosi talked to Joe on Sat and implied her call helped him make the decision. But then Pelosi’s office denied there was even a call. Interesting, I’m sure it’ll all come out with time but I tend to believe she did make a call or communicate to Joe or did it indirectly.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/21/pelo...-election.html

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You can just be a Republican man. It's not that big of a deal.

I definitely lean one way or another on issues but overall, I consider myself moderate & independent.

World would be a better place if both sides learn to compromise on majority of issues.

[RainMaker]

Democrats have been run by moderates since we were born. Who are these non-centrists running the Democratic Party these days that need to compromise?

And they don't need to compromise because both parties largely share the same positions outside of a few social issues. Those social issues are important but most everything else has been settled.

[RainMaker]

Her stance on China, taxes and immigration that you're waiting on are going to be roughly the same as Biden's. Which is roughly the same as Trump's. Which is the same as just about every leader from both sides in Washington.

There are social issues that differ but the things you're asking about have been decided no matter who wins.

[Danny]

We are really just choosing the option which is not trying to undo any and all democracy we have left and setting things back 150 years.

[Mota]

I love how Trump said his new strategy was to bring people together, and that strategy lasted for as long as he kept reading the speechwriter's words. The moment he went off script, it was the usual Trump. And they're already on the attack against Harris, so I suppose that the strategy has already been forgotten.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Democrats have been run by moderates since we were born. Who are these non-centrists running the Democratic Party these days that need to compromise?

And they don't need to compromise because both parties largely share the same positions outside of a few social issues. Those social issues are important but most everything else has been settled.

*highfive*
THIS!

[GrantDawg]

Joe Manchin dropped out fast. He said this morning on CNN that everything was "leading toward" his running, but an hour later on Gail King he said he is not, but wanting an open primary. He had less than zero chance as it was, but wonder who stopped him?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Joe Manchin dropped out fast. He said this morning on CNN that everything was "leading toward" his running, but an hour later on Gail King he said he is not, but wanting an open primary. He had less than zero chance as it was, but wonder who stopped him?

perhaps his mother telling him to stop being such an attention seeking troll all the time

[CrimsonFox]

ya know I don't care who runs at this point, just say somethiong ANYTHINHG positive. And keep saying it and keep pounding it. And point out all the shitheads that keep grifting the country.

[CrimsonFox]

dola....can they please NOT use "I'm with her" as a campaign slogan again?

[Lathum]

Over 70 million now

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Edward64

.

Article below said Pelosi talked to Joe on Sat and implied her call helped him make the decision. But then Pelosi’s office denied there was even a call. Interesting, I’m sure it’ll all come out with time but I tend to believe she did make a call or communicate to Joe or did it indirectly.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/21/pelo...-election.html

An 84 year old telling an 82 year old not to run for re-election when she ran for re-election at 83 tells you everything you need to know about this stupid country.

[Lathum]

The misogyny of the GOP is going to bury them. The personal attacks on Harris are not going to sit well with women.

[Ksyrup]

Matthew Yglesias writes a blog and made a good point about whether the liberal faction of the Democratic party is going to allow Harris to moderate her image in ways she needs to, to combat the perception that she's a CA liberal and become more electable to the general population. Trump's "allowed to do that" score is off the charts because he can take abortion off the table or speak kindly about EVs to gain Elon's money, and the GOP doesn't blink. But Hillary was partially sunk by the lefty whining and Biden ran on a "unity" message in response. Harris has to moderate but also keep the lefties from getting pissed she's not selling them out. She can't win otherwise.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

An 84 year old telling an 82 year old not to run for re-election when she ran for re-election at 83 tells you everything you need to know about this stupid country.

To be fair, she is a helluva a lot more lucid than Biden, not a high bar, but even more so than he was 4 years ago.

Point remains though, nobody past the age of retirement should be in politics at any level.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Over 70 million now

70 million...spiders?

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

To be fair, she is a helluva a lot more lucid than Biden, not a high bar, but even more so than he was 4 years ago.

Point remains though, nobody past the age of retirement should be in politics at any level.

Thankfully Republicans want to do away with retirement.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

To be fair, she is a helluva a lot more lucid than Biden, not a high bar, but even more so than he was 4 years ago.

Point remains though, nobody past the age of retirement should be in politics at any level.

what i found total bullshit was seeing an article saying Pelosi says biden will probably drop out this weekend. That was horrible. SO humiliating thing to post. She should NOT EVER talk to the press saying shit like this as if it's her decision. THat was really disgusting

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

what i found total bullshit was seeing an article saying Pelosi says biden will probably drop out this weekend. That was horrible. SO humiliating thing to post. She should NOT EVER talk to the press saying shit like this as if it's her decision. THat was really disgusting

She probably had a conversation with him where he agreed to drop out later but she was afraid he’d forget so she put it out there so he had to stick to his word. I’m just guessing. It’s pretty clear the party was pretty floored with his mental decline once he stopped being able to hide it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Matthew Yglesias writes a blog and made a good point about whether the liberal faction of the Democratic party is going to allow Harris to moderate her image in ways she needs to, to combat the perception that she's a CA liberal and become more electable to the general population. Trump's "allowed to do that" score is off the charts because he can take abortion off the table or speak kindly about EVs to gain Elon's money, and the GOP doesn't blink. But Hillary was partially sunk by the lefty whining and Biden ran on a "unity" message in response. Harris has to moderate but also keep the lefties from getting pissed she's not selling them out. She can't win otherwise.

Hillary was sunk by being a really shitty and unlikable politician for 30 years. I don't know why we need to keep making excuses for her 8 years after her failure.

[Atocep]

Jared Moskowtz's questioning of the secret service director shows there's not going to be any accountability. She refused to commit to firing anyone if the investigation shows who was at fault for the breakdowns and wouldn't even commit to a hypothetical resignation if the assassination attempt had been successful.

Biden needs to fire her.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by dubb93

She probably had a conversation with him where he agreed to drop out later but she was afraid he’d forget so she put it out there so he had to stick to his word. I’m just guessing. It’s pretty clear the party was pretty floored with his mental decline once he stopped being able to hide it.

I think it had more to do with his poll numbers.

If his mental decline were that bad, they'd be asking him to resign.

[Ksyrup]

I understand why the GOP is going after Biden, but it's pretty easy to make the argument that bring both president and a candidate is a lot, plus this is also about whether he could be president in 2027 or 28. It could, but doesn't have to, have anything to do with his fitness to be president today.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

An 84 year old telling an 82 year old not to run for re-election when she ran for re-election at 83 tells you everything you need to know about this stupid country.

The sad thing is the Democrats have probably their strongest stable of candidates they've had in decades. Just loaded with young, popular Governors. If Biden had stepped aside earlier, it would have been a really good primary and Dems would be incredibly strong.

For VP, I think I've decided I want Beshear. Pritzker would be good too but I don't think the establishment would accept him. Shapiro would be strong but has more risk. Beshear is also really good in interviews and speaking to the public. He'd destroy Vance in a debate and be someone you could send around the country talking in the Rust Belt and more rural areas. Just listen to this answer and remember he's in Kentucky and it worked.




[Atocep]

Tim Burchett blames the assassination attempt on DEI hires.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think it had more to do with his poll numbers.

If his mental decline were that bad, they'd be asking him to resign.

There was an article that came out yesterday in WSJ or Politico over the weekend that said the Biden campaign had not done internal polling in 2 months. They got back results the other day and he was just getting destroyed everywhere. Was like tied in Maine, New Hampshire, Minnesota, and New Mexico. Only up 3% in New Jersey.

Joe's a narcissist and I can't fathom that the decision was based on a talk from Nancy Pelosi. I think it had more to do with him realizing this was going to be a humiliating defeat and it was time to bail and leave the mess he caused for everyone else.

[RainMaker]

Take it for what it is but Kamala's team is promoting this interview and the Lt Gov in Kentucky said they're ready to take over. Sure sounds like he's the frontrunner and he's been going hard at JD Vance.




[Atocep]

JD Vance is probably going to turn out to be a bad pick. Trump likely thought he had the election in the bag so it was safe to double down on maga. VP picks usually don't matter but presidential candidates usually try to mitigate their weaknesses and go with safe picks.

The dems having a more balanced ticket and a much stronger VP may end up helping.

[albionmoonlight]

I am sure that the GOP will get its feet back under it, but I am surprised by how Biden deciding to not contend for the nomination seemingly caught them by surprise.

It was all anyone was talking about since the debate.

[Ksyrup]

Beshear is excellent. He is the kind of politician who puts aside politics in times of crisis. On a national level we may be beyond people being able to claim a president or VP from the other side without thinking they are the devil, but he managed to do that in this state. Of course it helped he was from here and his dad was governor.

I almost think he's too nice for 2020s national politics. During COVID people were calling him Howdy Dowdy and Mr. Rodgers because of how Pollyanna he was about being on "Team KY" and doing what's right for your neighbors. You know, those antiquated concepts that don't play well in the media and with most people who want mean-spirited entertainment from their politicians.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The sad thing is the Democrats have probably their strongest stable of candidates they've had in decades. Just loaded with young, popular Governors. If Biden had stepped aside earlier, it would have been a really good primary and Dems would be incredibly strong.



You are not wrong there. I doubt that Harris would have came out of a primary. She might have. You can't under estimate the benefit of being the sitting Vice President, but I do believe people for the most part want a change of guard. Someone like Beshears or Whitmer or Mark Kelly would have been interesting.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am sure that the GOP will get its feet back under it, but I am surprised by how Biden deciding to not contend for the nomination seemingly caught them by surprise.

It was all anyone was talking about since the debate.

Trump probably assumed most people are like him and he couldn't fathom stepping aside, so why would Joe? But yeah, it seems the campaign only started thinking about how to take on Harris (or anyone other than Joe) within the past 10 days or so.

[Ksyrup]

When he starts claiming "fraud" and whining that they have to start over with campaigning against a new candidate, you know they wanted Joe to stay in and are scared of the potential upside of Harris or anyone other than Joe.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Joe's a narcissist and I can't fathom that the decision was based on a talk from Nancy Pelosi. I think it had more to do with him realizing this was going to be a humiliating defeat and it was time to bail and leave the mess he caused for everyone else.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Trump is a narcissist. He can only see the world in Trump colors. If Trump was handed bad polls, he wouldn't believe them. Nothing Trump ever does is wrong, and he always wins or someone cheated.
Biden has a big ego, but anyone that believes they can be president has. He for sure has a good bit of hubris to think a year ago he had four more years in him. But if he was a narcissist he would have never stepped down.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When he starts claiming "fraud" and whining that they have to start over with campaigning against a new candidate, you know they wanted Joe to stay in and are scared of the potential upside of Harris or anyone other than Joe.

The spotlight has suddenly shifted to him being the old candidate. His campaign got the media and everyone so worked up over Joe's age that it might bite him in the ass now that Joe is out. He also has to figure out how to attack a black woman without damaging support from a group he's spent a lot of effort courting.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When he starts claiming "fraud" and whining that they have to start over with campaigning against a new candidate, you know they wanted Joe to stay in and are scared of the potential upside of Harris or anyone other than Joe.

Stephen Miller was having a meltdown on Fox News the other night. They went from having this in the bag to it being a race.

[Lathum]

80 million