Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not sure we'll hear much outside of Nebraska moving tomorrow.

Agreed but that domino sets everything else in motion.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Agreed but that domino sets everything else in motion.

Lots of rumbles that the Big 12 may yet be salvaged by keeping its remaining members and move to 12-16 teams. New hour, new direction. Crazy.

Edit: Although I do wonder if this is a bluff by some B12 members to expedite movement to other conferences. We've already seen a few PR moves like that this week.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Oh, dont think academics isnt as important, I think if they could, they would kicked out the OSU, WSU, and ASU if they could away with it

Those schools may not be AAU members, but they are high level research universities which is the primary academic concern of the conference. All three of them are classified in the highest level of research universities by the Carnegie Foundation (RU/VH - Research University/Very High activity).

The conference cares about ratings like those from U.S. News & World Report only to the extent that they can boost PR, but what they really care about are research dollars and knowledge sharing, and that is much more accurately reflected in the Carnegie classifications. Same thing with APR scores - the conferences care only to the extent that they can used as good PR, but they aren't something that would factor into a decision to accept or deny a school.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

And OSU and WSU were founding members of the original Pacific Coast Conference in 1916. So I don’t think any of the three are going anywhere any time soon.

But I didn’t think Kansas would ever be a mid-major either, so what do I know.

Technically speaking, the Pac-10 is officially the descendant of the Athletic Association of Western Universities (AAWU) which formed in 1959 in the wake of the Pacific Coast Conference dissolving. The founding members were Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA and Washington.

[timmynausea]

A writer for the Washington Examiner tweeted this about an upcoming article:

More to come in my WASHINGTON EXAMINER on #BigEast picking up #KANSAS, #KansasState, #IowaState & #Missouri

[Buccaneer]

I wrote this on a sportscards board, sort of summarizing for those that had not been following. Would this be a fair assessment of the current situation?

One domino fell today (Colorado to Pac-10) but tomorrow could start the rest of them with Nebraska going to Big 10. They way it's looking now could have Texas (who is the lynchpin) going to Pac-10 which will bring Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and Texas Tech with them. The six new teams will form the Pac-16 South along with ASU and Arizona.

One of the big questions now with Big 10 at 12 teams, will they stay put or jump to 16? Teams mentioned are Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and maybe Missouri.

In any case, it looks like the Big 12 is done.

SEC could go to 16 but they are rich enough as it is that they don't have to. Pac 10 and Big 12 probably needs to go to 16 to get the bigger TV contracts. If SEC wants to go to 16, they'll raid the ACC, who will raid the Big East.

Edit: Need to add that the Pac 10 did a pre-empt to get Colorado (whom they've been after for years) just so they don't have to take Baylor. Apparently the hangup in the Texas legislature is that there are too many Baylor good-ol-boys but they never had much clout since no one wanted Baylor (no more than Pac 10 would take BYU). The 5 Texas and Oklahoma schools are a package deal (with Texas as the leader) and Colorado makes 16, leaving Baylor out.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

A writer for the Washington Examiner tweeted this about an upcoming article:

More to come in my WASHINGTON EXAMINER on #BigEast picking up #KANSAS, #KansasState, #IowaState & #Missouri

I think this could actually work if the schools would pledge to stay in place for long enough to get their own network in place.

The football schools could split into East and West:

East:
WVU
Pitt
UConn
Rutgers
Syracuse
USF

West:
Louisville
Cincy
Mizzou
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Basketball schools could stick around and could either play 20 conference games (1 vs each team and one rival that has a h/h each year).

[cartman]

That seems to be the prevailing sentiment out there, Bucc.

[MJ4H]

Still some things around about OU and A&M to the SEC. Not much credibility, but I can't help but salivate at adding those two to the west and something like FSU and VT to the east. Would be answering the bell in a major way.

For the record, I don't want Texas in the SEC. I'd rather add Al Qaeda, the Nazi Party, the KKK, and the Klingons to the SEC.

[Arles]

More updates out here in Pac-10 territory:

1. Texas A&M is being seriously courted by the SEC (prob with another team). The latest is the SEC will move 2 teams from the west to the east to accommodate A&M if they join.
2. Texas, Texas Tech, OK and OK State plan on joining the Pac-10 - with an announcement coming early next week according to information in Phoenix. Estimates are that the new Pac-16 will get a conf TV channel/deal that pays each school around $25 million.
3. If A&M does go to the SEC over the Pac-10, the Pac will look at either Utah or Kansas for the final slot (to pair with Colorado).

Seems like this 16 team Pac-10 is all but assured right now. The revenue increase to the conference makes this pretty much a slam dunk for all involved. Not sure if I like it or not, but there doesn't seem anyway to stop it at this point:

[digamma]

Why does everyone think the SEC is "courting" A&M? Everything I've read has it the other way around, with the SEC only playing along as a way to get to Texas.

[Arles]

It seems like the SEC wants A&M even if Texas doesn't come. It also appears that Texas isn't all that interested in joining the SEC given the power/cash they could get with the Pac-16 (esp considering the sanctions with USC).

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think this could actually work if the schools would pledge to stay in place for long enough to get their own network in place.

The football schools could split into East and West:

East:
WVU
Pitt
UConn
Rutgers
Syracuse
USF

West:
Louisville
Cincy
Mizzou
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State

Basketball schools could stick around and could either play 20 conference games (1 vs each team and one rival that has a h/h each year).

The BigEast West? My head just imploded.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Arles

It seems like the SEC wants A&M even if Texas doesn't come.

Yeah, I guess from what I'm reading it doesn't seem that way at all.

[Arles]

The Stallings-Alabama ties are the main reason it seems. Still, if the SEC doesn't want A&M (which I think they do), then A&M may be left out in the cold if Texas goes to the Pac-10 next week and they don't commit as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think a big advantage for A&M is that there isn't anyone in the conference (that I can think of) who would be naturally dead set against them.

That's not something you can say about all the candidates that have been mentioned for the SEC.

[Carman Bulldog]

So from a fan's perspective (and a Canadian at that), wouldn't the best thing at this point now not be the Pac-10 also absorbing Utah, BYU and Boise State to get to an even 14 teams while the Big 12 adds TCU to replace Nebraska?

I understand the likelihood of this happening is little to none, but a few related questions in that sense then...

In the scenario that Texas decides to stand pat and try and salvage the Big 12, would Utah not be one of the next logical plays for a 12th team in the Pac 10?

And if you want to grab the Utah market, why not also pluck BYU?

Is Boise State eternally screwed from ever being part of a major conference because they exist is Boise, Idaho?

Is TCU eternally screwed from being ever being part of the Big 12 because the Texas market is already cornered?

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by digamma

Why does everyone think the SEC is "courting" A&M? Everything I've read has it the other way around, with the SEC only playing along as a way to get to Texas.

They are and have been for months. The SEC knows it isn't likely getting Texas but is giving it the old college try because they'd be stupid not to.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So from a fan's perspective (and a Canadian at that), wouldn't the best thing at this point now not be the Pac-10 also absorbing Utah, BYU and Boise State to get to an even 14 teams while the Big 12 adds TCU to replace Nebraska?

I understand the likelihood of this happening is little to none, but a few related questions in that sense then...

In the scenario that Texas decides to stand pat and try and salvage the Big 12, would Utah not be one of the next logical plays for a 12th team in the Pac 10?

And if you want to grab the Utah market, why not also pluck BYU?

Is Boise State eternally screwed from ever being part of a major conference because they exist is Boise, Idaho?

Is TCU eternally screwed from being ever being part of the Big 12 because the Texas market is already cornered?

Boise has no shot at the PAC-10 because of a few reasons. The market is a reason, but not a huge reason. Academics is the biggest reason, sports in another good reason (BSU isn't good in much else)

BYU won't be allowed because they wont play on Sunday and other religious liberties. Cal and Oregon did their best behind the scenes to make sure Baylor doesnt get in. BYU is religious fandom to the extreme.

TCU isn't in such bad shape for the future, but they need to wait for the other dominoes to fall

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So from a fan's perspective (and a Canadian at that), wouldn't the best thing at this point now not be the Pac-10 also absorbing Utah, BYU and Boise State to get to an even 14 teams while the Big 12 adds TCU to replace Nebraska?

I understand the likelihood of this happening is little to none, but a few related questions in that sense then...

In the scenario that Texas decides to stand pat and try and salvage the Big 12, would Utah not be one of the next logical plays for a 12th team in the Pac 10?

And if you want to grab the Utah market, why not also pluck BYU?

Is Boise State eternally screwed from ever being part of a major conference because they exist is Boise, Idaho?

Is TCU eternally screwed from being ever being part of the Big 12 because the Texas market is already cornered?

The short answer is that on-field performance is a very, very small factor in expansion.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

They are and have been for months. The SEC knows it isn't likely getting Texas but is giving it the old college try because they'd be stupid not to.

With Texas. Not Texas A&M alone.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by digamma

With Texas. Not Texas A&M alone.

No, the SEC would love to have A&M and A&M alone. It opens up Texas to SEC teams for recruiting and television markets. Texas too would be great, but the SEC realizes there is almost no shot at this.

[MrBug708]

Texas wants no part of the SEC and they would prefer that the SEC would be kept out of the state of Texas. Texas also doesn't like the fact that the SEC takes partial qualifiers and sees their program as "above" those in the SEC

[digamma]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

No, the SEC would love to have A&M and A&M alone. It opens up Texas to SEC teams for recruiting and television markets. Texas too would be great, but the SEC realizes there is almost no shot at this.

OK, that is not the sense I get from what I have read. It's all pretty much behind closed doors, as we know and sources have different agendas. It is interesting to watch it play out, of course.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by digamma

OK, that is not the sense I get from what I have read. It's all pretty much behind closed doors, as we know and sources have different agendas. It is interesting to watch it play out, of course.

I have heard what Bug said in regards to keeping SEC schools out of Texas. There are also the obvious academics concerns, as well as the fact that the SEC is obviously a weekly grind. A&M going to the SEC will drive a huge wedge between they and UT though, because they will be allowing those SEC schools into Texas.

[Swaggs]

One of our best insiders on scout.com indicated that the majority (he said 9 of 12) of SEC ADs do not want to add Miami or Florida State because they think adding the SEC name to those two schools would be damaging to out of state teams recruiting the state of Florida.

He also said that Georgia Tech has multiple options available to them right now (presumably Big Ten and SEC).

[DeToxRox]

If GT is a legitimate option for the Big 10, I would be all over that. Besides the obvious entrance into a hotbed of football talent and a huge TV market, it would really broaden the Big 10's horizons. If the Big 10 went to 16 teams, my personal preference would be: Nebraska, Georgia Tech, Rutgers, Virginia, Notre Dame. Don't see that happening of course.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

He also said that Georgia Tech has multiple options available to them right now (presumably Big Ten and SEC).

This is what the Ga Tech rivals insiders believe as well. They have also said it has been eerily quiet over the last three days, so they don't really know what to make of that.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Texas wants no part of the SEC and they would prefer that the SEC would be kept out of the state of Texas. Texas also doesn't like the fact that the SEC takes partial qualifiers and sees their program as "above" those in the SEC

This is exactly what I heard as well. There are only two options for Texas - Big 10 and Pac 10. And, the SEC knows this. They want A&M to get parts of the Texas market and because of regent Gene Stallings' close ties to the SEC and Alabama. But, the SEC knows there's virtually no chance of landing Texas, yet they are still pursuing A&M.

[Swaggs]

A&M is a legitimate, stand-alone option for the SEC.

The interesting thing will be if Texas goes (is forced to go) to bat for Baylor if A&M goes to the SEC. That would give all four B12 Texas schools a soft landing, but it would stink for the Pac 10 to get saddled with three dogs (OSU, TT, and Baylor) to get Texas. It is amazing how many moving parts there are in these multi-team expansions.

[MrBug708]

I dont think the PAC-10 minds OSU in the slightest. TTU is unfortunate but if we lose on TAMU, it's not really a bad thing. Baylor would be the disappointment and Im sure the PAC-10 would push for Utah/Kansas.

[MJ4H]

ripped from another site that has great info a lot:

Here’s the latest of what I know from the Big Ten side of the ledger (not the maybe Texas/maybe Pac-10 perspective that is found elsewhere):

The Big Ten is focused on Texas and Notre Dame. I don’t mean that in a “Duh, of course they want them!” way. I mean in a serious/this may happen by this weekend way. There are 3 scenarios for the Big Ten (please note that these additions are on top of Nebraska):

(1) Add Texas and Notre Dame alone – If Texas A&M goes to the SEC (and it appears that the Aggies are hot and heavy with that conference with Oklahoma possibly behind them), then the Big Ten would stop at 14. This is actually the optimal situation for the Big Ten.

(2) Add Texas, Notre Dame, Texas A&M and a team to be determined – If Texas A&M decides to join, there’s going to be a rigorous internal debate about who is school #16. Missouri, Rutgers and Syracuse, not surprisingly, are named as the most likely contenders for that last spot.

(3) Add no one else – Same debate regarding Missouri, Rutgers and Syracuse (and maybe others) applies here, where the disagreement about who else could be added may result in the Big Ten only adding Nebraska and stopping at 12.

My understanding is that Texas DOES want to join the Big Ten despite public posturing. I might have been throwing crap against the wall a few months ago about that, but I’m NOT now. Texas and the Big Ten have been dancing for a VERY long time in this process.

Also note that there are reasons why Notre Dame might be “forced” to join a conference that are different than the overall “seismic” shift that Jack Sarbrick has talked about. Namely, a Big East message board obsession has apparently come true. Read into that what you will.

That’s what I know. Here’s what I think:

Texas A&M entertaining an offer from the SEC is the best thing that could happen to the Big Ten. The way to remove the “Tech problem” politically is to expose just how much more money Texas and Texas A&M are leaving on the table by having to drag its in-state cousins to the Pac-10 (or with the addition of Colorado today, the Pac Televen). Indeed, check out the message being set forth by A&M tonight:

Former Texas A&M football coach R.C. Slocum, who now works as a special adviser to [Texas A&M President Bowen] Loftin, said football programs are carrying an increased financial burden to support other sports, so they’re drawn to potentially massive TV contracts for more revenue.

“You look at the level of funding that all programs need to have, and it’s a business decision that universities now have to make,” Slocum said.

Slocum said any decision A&M makes will be based purely on its financial impact, and not on more intangible elements, like preserving traditions and rivalries.

The Texas A&M athletic department has around $16 million in debt, so if/when it gets an invite to SEC, it’s on the record that it’s not going to take a haircut in order to be in the same conference as Texas Tech and Baylor. So, if A&M asserts that it can control its own destiny, Texas has the moral/political authority to do whatever it wants. As I’ve argued from the beginning, the Big Ten makes the most financial and academic sense for Texas and my understanding is that the powers that be in Austin (the campus as opposed to the capitol) agree. Texas wouldn’t be publicly calling for the saving of the Big XII in order to start a Longhorn Sports Network only to head to the Pac Televen, where the projected TV revenue from the proposed 16-team league doesn’t even match what the Big Ten (and for that matter, the SEC) provides to each member today. Something is amiss there and I hope some journalists put aside their personal assumptions about what “should” happen and attack that angle seriously over the next few days. Whoever does is going to end up with the scoop of the year.

[Arles]

Actually, Oklahoma State is a very strong school in terms of revenue and attractiveness to the Pac-10. If they can find a way to land Texas, OK, OK St and either A&M, KU or Utah - all would be big positives for the Pac-10. The only real "dog" would be Texas Tech. TT doesn't offer a ton and, given they already have Texas, they don't really need the market. Baylor would be a tough pill to swallow, but I'm pretty sure Cal/Stanford will veto them and the Colorado add means there's virtually no chance Baylor comes now.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

One of our best insiders on scout.com indicated that the majority (he said 9 of 12) of SEC ADs do not want to add Miami or Florida State because they think adding the SEC name to those two schools would be damaging to out of state teams recruiting the state of Florida.

He also said that Georgia Tech has multiple options available to them right now (presumably Big Ten and SEC).

I think I'd be happier with FSU in the ACC, in terms of its ability to compete for a national title. Not sure how big the money difference would be, but if the ACC lost a couple of teams like Clemson, GT, or VT, and added basketball-first schools without giving up its BCS auto-bid, then in a best-case scenario where FSU regains some form of dominance, it would be FSU or UM in the BCS nearly every year. I'd be perfectly content with having to argue that the ACC isn't the weakest conference from a 10-2, 11-1, or 12-0 guaranteed BCS spot, rather than slug it out in the SEC and go 8-4 with the same team.

[MJ4H]

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

ripped from another site that has great info a lot:

Here’s the latest of what I know from the Big Ten side of the ledger (not the maybe Texas/maybe Pac-10 perspective that is found elsewhere):

Thanks for the update, all this is very interesting. There are some things that I've read at numerous spots that goes against some of this:

1. The Texas legislature is pretty much forcing a conference that takes Texas to take either Tech or Baylor. There's virtually no chance they will sign off on a move that leaves both Tech and Baylor without a home.

2. Texas likes the academics of the Big Ten more, but they stand to make more combined money/prestige/power in the Pac-16. They would be the lynchpin of the second 8 conference and (with USC's troubles) pretty much top dog. In the Big Ten, they'd be on a similar level with Ohio State, Michigan and potentially Notre Dame. Plus, the new TV deal is estimated at 25-27 million for Texas a year. I'm not sure what the big ten would offer, but I doubt it's much more than that.

3. Texas wants to stay with Oklahoma. This sounds a little odd, but it's a big rivalry that it appears Texas wants to keep in conference.

4. Finally, the schedule with Texas in the Big 10 would be crazy. They would play a big 10 schedule facing the likes of most of OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, even Notre Dame. Then, they'd also have to schedule atleast 2 of A&M, Texas Tech and Oklahoma each year as a non-conf team. That basically kills any chance of going undefeated. With OK and Tech in their division in the Pac, they'd just have A&M plus cupcakes on their non-conf schedule.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Also note that there are reasons why Notre Dame might be “forced” to join a conference that are different than the overall “seismic” shift that Jack Sarbrick has talked about. Namely, a Big East message board obsession has apparently come true. Read into that what you will.

Said message board obsession would supposedly be the Big East telling Notre Dame to join in football or gtfo.

Haven't heard that reported anywhere else, but if the BE is trying to make any moves before they get crushed on their own, I can see it.

[Solecismic]

If the rumors are true that Texas A&M and the SEC want each other, then the Texas legislature is not going to get its way unless Texas and Texas Tech go to the Pac 11. The Big Ten would not take Texas Tech. Even if Bobby Knight were still there.

One nice thing about a thorough playoff system, which we'll get if there are at least three major 16-school super-conferences, is that it will no longer be imperative that a team finish undefeated. We'll have better non-conference games. No more biased ranking systems. No more whining from a blue place in Idaho that a schedule that ranks 119th out of 120 schools somehow warrants an immediate opportunity to play for the national title.

This is going to take a few years to sort out, but the moves that have started this month are going to greatly improve college football. The sad thing is that the NCAA basketball tournament, which is in perfect balance right now (thankfully they did not expand to 96), may be lost.

I wonder if Orrin Hatch's large mouth is what will end up keeping Utah and BYU out of any new major-college division.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Said message board obsession would supposedly be the Big East telling Notre Dame to join in football or gtfo.

Haven't heard that reported anywhere else, but if the BE is trying to make any moves before they get crushed on their own, I can see it.

Yes I'm all for this, the BE and the teams involved need to know where they stand and if they need to start making moves or not.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This is going to take a few years to sort out, but the moves that have started this month are going to greatly improve college football. The sad thing is that the NCAA basketball tournament, which is in perfect balance right now (thankfully they did not expand to 96), may be lost.

Is it? I mean, I'm looking at my nice great-lakes based Big Ten adding Nebraska, and looking to add teams like Texas, Maryland, Virginia, and Georgia Tech? Aren't we losing some of the regional pride from our conferences?

[cartman]

Now it sounds like Boise State is going to be joining the MWC after all.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by cartman

Now it sounds like Boise State is going to be joining the MWC after all.

They are, just broke in to super-regionals on espn2.

[DeToxRox]

Colorado had their introduction PC today with the Pac 10 and they kept referring to the conference as the Pac 12. People are speculating Utah is going to be announced as team #12.

[duckman]

For those that want to watch the live coverage of the Nebraska regents meeting at 1pm CST:

Live @ 1 P.M. CT: Nebraska Regents Meeting - Video - KOCO Oklahoma City

[timmynausea]

Here's the full story about the Big East possibly absorbing the Big 12 leftovers:

Remaining Big 12 schools to the Big East gaining momentum | Washington Examiner

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Colorado had their introduction PC today with the Pac 10 and they kept referring to the conference as the Pac 12. People are speculating Utah is going to be announced as team #12.

The Pac 12 is probably what they plan to call the combined merger of the Pac 10 and Big 12. You know, take the Pac from Pac 10, and the 12 from Big 12, and you've got...Pac 12. Hey, at least they didn't take the Big from Big 12 and the 10 from Pac 10.

[timmynausea]

I just assumed 12 was the number of scholarships USC has left.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

I just assumed 12 was the number of scholarships USC has left.

Boom. Roasted.

[Galaxy]

If Notre Dame does sign on with the Big East and some of the Big 12 teams follow, could NBC make a play for the Big East television rights overall?

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

If Notre Dame does sign on with the Big East and some of the Big 12 teams follow, could NBC make a play for the Big East television rights overall?

The rumor of ND to the Big East involved the football conference staying at 8, which would make sense as it essentially gives ND an extra OOC game to maintain their long term rivalries. So I don't know if the BE can land both the Big 12 leftovers and ND.