2014 MLB Thread - Page 39

Lathum · 10-01-2014, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

How do you feel when teams are tied and need a Game 163? Eliminate that too?

Not at all, that is part of the season, not a playoff. In my mind there is a difference.

Bobble · 10-01-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's not 1970 anymore. People don't get off work at 5, get home by 530, have dinner at 6 and settle in for a nice leisurely evening in front of the television in the family room. That's not the life of most people.

Yeah, at 6:00 I'm still down at the rec center watchin' folks swim.

ISiddiqui · 10-01-2014, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not at all, that is part of the season, not a playoff. In my mind there is a difference.

It doesn't appear to be a meaningful difference. In both cases its a one game playoff (Game 163 is technically called a 'one game playoff') to see who gets to go to the Division Series (or, the Wild Card Game).

digamma · 10-01-2014, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Wait...wouldn't the ratios staying about the same for 1980/1990/2000/2010 imply that TV watching is fairly steady, but people are just watching other things? The ratio was much larger in 1970, even though the share was about the same; I would think this would point to a large increase in TV watching in the 70s, which then leveled off. I would think that if fewer were watching TV overall, you would see the WS rating go down steeper than the share.

ETA: That is to say, if 19.4% of the country was watching in 1970 and that was 53% of all TVs watching something, then that means 36.6% of the country was watching something. In 1980, that jumped to 58.5% of the country watching something...and for 2010, 60% of the country was watching something. No?

Yeah, my back of the envelope math (and granted I'm a lawyer) based on the total viewer numbers on the table linked would seem to agree with you. Roughly steady TV viewership (145 million television households in 1990 up to 170 million television households in 2010 with 84 million and 102 million sets on (for the share rating) at that time) with baseball a smaller percentage.

cartman · 10-01-2014, 04:50 PM

speaking of Game 163s, what I don't get is why, if there are two teams that are tied, they play an extra game instead of going on head to head record.

JonInMiddleGA · 10-01-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Wait...wouldn't the ratios staying about the same for 1980/1990/2000/2010 imply that TV watching is fairly steady, but people are just watching other things? The ratio was much larger in 1970, even though the share was about the same; I would think this would point to a large increase in TV watching in the 70s, which then leveled off. I would think that if fewer were watching TV overall, you would see the WS rating go down steeper than the share.

There's some skewing of things by the sample years I pulled for convenience, a couple of those were (IIRC) a bit outlier'ish.

Or maybe I did my eyeball math wrong. I'll have to look at that later.

JPhillips · 10-01-2014, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobble

Yeah, at 6:00 I'm still down at the rec center watchin' folks swim.

Knowing that he filmed himself with underage girls makes that commercial really creepy.

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2014, 08:13 PM

Grand slam.....sigh.

miked · 10-01-2014, 08:17 PM

Maybe that will straighten Volquez's hat.

stevew · 10-01-2014, 09:05 PM

Sigh.

kingfc22 · 10-01-2014, 09:32 PM

Woooo!!! Go Brandon's!

Abe Sargent · 10-01-2014, 10:22 PM

Sigh....

ISiddiqui · 10-01-2014, 10:36 PM

Well that was anti-climatic compared to last night.

Vince, Pt. II · 10-02-2014, 12:12 AM

Madison Bumgarner is a treat to watch.

Edit: Also, I still can't believe, despite numerous tweets/disclaimers/research by SackAttack, that Brandon Crawford is the first SS to ever hit a postseason grand slam.

sterlingice · 10-02-2014, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobble

Yeah, at 6:00 I'm still down at the rec center watchin' folks swim.

SI

sterlingice · 10-02-2014, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

As for the lengths of these games, I like following the playoffs, but I can't really watch very much of it anymore. I can't be alone. One season I watched every Red Sox playoff game and a bunch of the other games.....it could me quite a while to recover. 4-5 hours a night, weeks at a time, who can do that? I've never attempted it again, even in years where the Red Sox were in the playoffs. The TV ratings are still decent all things considered, but I think there's a lot of passive viewing. The TV is on, people are checking in here and there.

I know I only was half watching the game last night because I knew I wasn't going to make it to the end. The Red Sox are one of the worst offenders, along with the Yankees. My wife and I were talking about game times when we were at Fenway last week and I just randomly counted out loud during one Big Papi AB. It was 25 seconds between pitches with all of his damn preening. In a meaningless game in September between the 5th place Red Sox and the 4th place Rays at a time in the game that wasn't dramatic or intense. It's just pathetic.

I love baseball's slow, leisurely pace. Always have. The game is legitimately a 2-2:30 long game when you go through the necessary motions. But to me, it's the extra half hour or hour of inaction that make the game so much more unwatchable.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-02-2014, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I know I only was half watching the game last night because I knew I wasn't going to make it to the end. The Red Sox are one of the worst offenders, along with the Yankees. My wife and I were talking about game times when we were at Fenway last week and I just randomly counted out loud during one Big Papi AB. It was 25 seconds between pitches with all of his damn preening. In a meaningless game in September between the 5th place Red Sox and the 4th place Rays at a time in the game that wasn't dramatic or intense. It's just pathetic.

I love baseball's slow, leisurely pace. Always have. The game is legitimately a 2-2:30 long game when you go through the necessary motions. But to me, it's the extra half hour or hour of inaction that make the game so much more unwatchable.

SI

There's a rule on the books already to keep that in check. They're supposed to not leave the batter's box once the at-bat begins. Something as simple as that would drop 15-20 minutes easily, if not more.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-02-2014, 09:46 AM

Dola

Fun picture from a fraternity brother of mine after the Wild Card win. Moose was shaking up his bottle as my buddy took the photo, resulting in a collateral fire photo.

Honolulu_Blue · 10-02-2014, 09:54 AM

I find all of these crazy beer/champagne celebrations a bit much. I can understand doing this when you make the playoffs. So few teams make it and the season is super long, but doing this after you win a one game "series"? And then when you win the next one?

Maybe it's just because I'm used to hockey where they don't anything like this unless they actually win the Cup.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-02-2014, 09:57 AM

Stat time: The Royals have a four game winning streak in the playoffs.

ISiddiqui · 10-02-2014, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I find all of these crazy beer/champagne celebrations a bit much. I can understand doing this when you make the playoffs. So few teams make it and the season is super long, but doing this after you win a one game "series"? And then when you win the next one?

Maybe it's just because I'm used to hockey where they don't anything like this unless they actually win the Cup.

I think that gives more credence to my view that the WildCard Game is analogous to Game 163. It's more of a play in game than it is really "the playoffs".

Honolulu_Blue · 10-02-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think that gives more credence to my view that the WildCard Game is analogous to Game 163. It's more of a play in game than it is really "the playoffs".

But they also went all bananas with the champagne when they made the wildcard, didn't they?

Maybe not.

kingfc22 · 10-02-2014, 01:52 PM

I agree. Do the champagne dance when you make the playoffs, but you shouldn't do it after winning the wild card game. Come on....

stevew · 10-02-2014, 02:17 PM

As much as I like my team, I'm kind of happy the Pittsburgh Bandwagon thing will shut down.

korme · 10-02-2014, 09:41 PM

This is hilarious: Fans Of The TV Show Castle Angry At Sports

sterlingice · 10-02-2014, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

This is hilarious: Fans Of The TV Show Castle Angry At Sports

I particularly love that it's for reruns- not even first run of Castle

That said, I'm not going to make it through tonight. I have a plane to get on tomorrow and a lot of work to get done since I'm going to miss Monday for the flight back

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-03-2014, 12:14 AM

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Let's f'n GO!!!!!! Gonna play two in KC!

Lathum · 10-03-2014, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Let's f'n GO!!!!!! Gonna play two in KC!

They just played the radio call from the Royals announcer of the homerun. It was the most lifeless call I have ever heard if a big spot.

RainMaker · 10-03-2014, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

As for the lengths of these games, I like following the playoffs, but I can't really watch very much of it anymore. I can't be alone. One season I watched every Red Sox playoff game and a bunch of the other games.....it could me quite a while to recover. 4-5 hours a night, weeks at a time, who can do that? I've never attempted it again, even in years where the Red Sox were in the playoffs. The TV ratings are still decent all things considered, but I think there's a lot of passive viewing. The TV is on, people are checking in here and there.

I can't watch it either. Regular season games need to clock in at around 2:30. Playoff games at 3-3:15. I'd watch if it it was my team in its current state, but I'm just not committing 4 hours to other teams. Too many options for home entertainment these days.

I also don't know how people regularly go to games. If you're hitting up a 7pm start, you're probably leaving the house at 6pm and not getting home till midnight. Who has 6 hours a day to commit to going to games? Maybe that's a reason why stadiums look empty every time I turn a game on.

RainMaker · 10-03-2014, 06:15 AM

I'll add I think the NBA does it great. I've had season tickets for 8 years now and a 7pm tip-off means I'm out in under 2.5 hours. The playoff games are a little longer (15-20 minutes), but that's understandable. I'm walking distance from Wrigley and don't bother hitting up games because the extra hour isn't worth it (make it 2 hours if Edwin Jackson is pitching).

I don't know if it matters to baseball or not. It does seem like the fanbase is getting older. I rarely see kids out in baseball gear. Maybe that changes at some point but I have to wonder what we're looking at in 20-25 years.

RainMaker · 10-03-2014, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's a rule on the books already to keep that in check. They're supposed to not leave the batter's box once the at-bat begins. Something as simple as that would drop 15-20 minutes easily, if not more.

I'd also add in:

Relief Pitcher warmups reduced - every team has a bullpen where guys can warm up. New pitcher should get 3-4 pitches and the game should get going. A new QB in football doesn't get to make 20 throws at the 50-yard line when he enters a game.

No warmups for pinch hitters - every team has a batting cage in back now. When you announce a pinch hitter he doesn't need an extra 3 minutes to loosen up. If he hasn't loosened up, tough shit.

Catcher gets 1 trip to the mound an inning - I see guys going out to the mound 4-5 times during big innings. Enough already. Work out hand signals or something during the endless downtime you guys have during the season.

These 3 would knock 5-10 minutes off a game.

Butter · 10-03-2014, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'll add I think the NBA does it great. I've had season tickets for 8 years now and a 7pm tip-off means I'm out in under 2.5 hours.

The NBA is timed... baseball is not. I don't know what more you can expect.

Lathum · 10-03-2014, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'd also add in:

Relief Pitcher warmups reduced - every team has a bullpen where guys can warm up. New pitcher should get 3-4 pitches and the game should get going. A new QB in football doesn't get to make 20 throws at the 50-yard line when he enters a game.

No warmups for pinch hitters - every team has a batting cage in back now. When you announce a pinch hitter he doesn't need an extra 3 minutes to loosen up. If he hasn't loosened up, tough shit.

Catcher gets 1 trip to the mound an inning - I see guys going out to the mound 4-5 times during big innings. Enough already. Work out hand signals or something during the endless downtime you guys have during the season.

These 3 would knock 5-10 minutes off a game.

I agree with 2 and 3. Disagree with 1, I think we have enough injuries to pitchers, let them warm up if need be.

I think they need to enforce the batter out of the box rule and have some kind of rule about pitchers leaving the mound. We'll never get a pitch clock so anyone who wants that can forget about it.

Watching the bottom of the 8th in the Royals- As game the other night was painful. The pitcher stepped of for at least 30 seconds between each pitch.

Lathum · 10-03-2014, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

The NBA is timed... baseball is not. I don't know what more you can expect.

and to me that is the beauty of baseball. It's not over till it's over. They just need to find a way to make it over faster.

RainMaker · 10-03-2014, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

The NBA is timed... baseball is not. I don't know what more you can expect.

What does that have to do with finding ways to shorten the average length of a baseball game? I understand it's not an exact science and a 9-7 game that goes 12 innings will play out longer (just as a double OT basketball game does). But the goal should be to shorten the average length of a baseball game.

Butter · 10-03-2014, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But the goal should be to shorten the average length of a baseball game.

I agree, but saying the NBA does it great is more in spite of the NBA than because of it and is largely due to the nature of the game itself. The long-standing joke is it takes 10-20 minutes to play the last minute of a close NBA game because of all the timeouts teams get. So they have their struggles as well with certain aspects.

Warhammer · 10-03-2014, 08:24 AM

There is a time between pitches in the rules if I remember. Enforce that rule and allow the batter only one chance to step out of the box during an at bat.

Buccaneer · 10-03-2014, 09:07 AM

My dream World Series this year is StL-KC. I like historical match ups which was why I usually pick StL and Bos/Det. I would like to include SF in there but not much there unless you go pre-war.

korme · 10-03-2014, 09:45 AM

Make 7 inning games guys, simple

ISiddiqui · 10-03-2014, 09:54 AM

Though the average time per game isn't THAT much longer than other sporting events (aside from soccer):

Baseball Prospectus | Statistics | Custom Statistics Reports: Game Information League Average

The average baseball game in 2014 was 3.13 hrs.

Though, granted, it has been going up. I'd imagine a lot of that, though, isn't because of batter stepping out, etc, but the emphasis on taking pitches instead of being too aggressive at the plate.

panerd · 10-03-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

My dream World Series this year is StL-KC. I like historical match ups which was why I usually pick StL and Bos/Det. I would like to include SF in there but not much there unless you go pre-war.

I will admit to a small bias but I would love KC/Stl. Our tailgates at Mizzou are split about 50/50 and that would be a fantastic day with a Mizzou game and the World Series afterwards. After that I would like Stl/LA. Chance to play Pujols for the first time and Trout.

KC is definitely my #2 behind the Cards though a lot of my Royals friends have big time little man syndrome about cheering for St Louis.

MizzouRah · 10-03-2014, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

I will admit to a small bias but I would love KC/Stl. Our tailgates at Mizzou are split about 50/50 and that would be a fantastic day with a Mizzou game and the World Series afterwards. After that I would like Stl/LA. Chance to play Pujols for the first time and Trout.

KC is definitely my #2 behind the Cards though a lot of my Royals friends have big time little man syndrome about cheering for St Louis.

If it's STL - KC then I demand a meet up with our KC/STL folks!

Mizzou B-ball fan · 10-03-2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

They just played the radio call from the Royals announcer of the homerun. It was the most lifeless call I have ever heard if a big spot.

I'm assuming it was Denny Matthews. He's a HOF broadcaster. He's a throwback guy when screaming your head off wasn't required to enhance a big moment. I actually appreciate that at some level. I think both have their place.

Lathum · 10-03-2014, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm assuming it was Denny Matthews. He's a HOF broadcaster. He's a throwback guy when screaming your head off wasn't required to enhance a big moment. I actually appreciate that at some level. I think both have their place.

I don't know who it was, but it was shit and an insult to the moment. I don't think you need to scream, I despise that hack John Sterling, but at least show some life for what is arguably the biggest hit in the last 29 years of the franchise.

miami_fan · 10-03-2014, 11:59 AM

Thoughts?

Fredi Gonzalez staying as Atlanta Braves manager - ESPN

miked · 10-03-2014, 12:22 PM

They must be happy with his move to bay BJ Upton leadoff for half the season in hopes he'd "break out".

Butter · 10-03-2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't know who it was, but it was shit and an insult to the moment. I don't think you need to scream, I despise that hack John Sterling, but at least show some life for what is arguably the biggest hit in the last 29 years of the franchise.

I listened to it, and have to agree with you.

JonInMiddleGA · 10-03-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Thoughts?

Fredi Gonzalez staying as Atlanta Braves manager - ESPN

I didn't have much hope for the club once he didn't go at the same time Wren did. I have the same amount of no hope now.

edit to add: A blindfolded drunken monkey would have as much chance of putting together a decent batting order as this clueless git does.

korme · 10-03-2014, 02:51 PM

HOW BOUT DEM ORIOLES

Matthean · 10-03-2014, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

HOW BOUT DEM ORIOLES

The bane of Detroit has been their pitching outside of their starters.

10-01-2014, 04:50 PM	#1905
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	speaking of Game 163s, what I don't get is why, if there are two teams that are tied, they play an extra game instead of going on head to head record. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

10-01-2014, 08:13 PM	#1908
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Grand slam.....sigh. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

10-01-2014, 08:17 PM	#1909
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	Maybe that will straighten Volquez's hat. __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

10-01-2014, 09:32 PM	#1911
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	Woooo!!! Go Brandon's! __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal

10-01-2014, 10:22 PM	#1912
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Sigh.... __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

10-01-2014, 09:05 PM	#1910
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Sigh.

10-01-2014, 10:36 PM	#1913
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Well that was anti-climatic compared to last night. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

10-02-2014, 12:12 AM	#1914
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Madison Bumgarner is a treat to watch. Edit: Also, I still can't believe, despite numerous tweets/disclaimers/research by SackAttack, that Brandon Crawford is the first SS to ever hit a postseason grand slam. Last edited by Vince, Pt. II : 10-02-2014 at 12:43 AM.

10-02-2014, 09:46 AM	#1918
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Dola Fun picture from a fraternity brother of mine after the Wild Card win. Moose was shaking up his bottle as my buddy took the photo, resulting in a collateral fire photo.

10-02-2014, 09:54 AM	#1919
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	I find all of these crazy beer/champagne celebrations a bit much. I can understand doing this when you make the playoffs. So few teams make it and the season is super long, but doing this after you win a one game "series"? And then when you win the next one? Maybe it's just because I'm used to hockey where they don't anything like this unless they actually win the Cup. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

10-02-2014, 09:57 AM	#1920
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Stat time: The Royals have a four game winning streak in the playoffs.

10-02-2014, 01:52 PM	#1923
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	I agree. Do the champagne dance when you make the playoffs, but you shouldn't do it after winning the wild card game. Come on.... __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal

10-02-2014, 02:17 PM	#1924
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	As much as I like my team, I'm kind of happy the Pittsburgh Bandwagon thing will shut down.

10-02-2014, 09:41 PM	#1925
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	This is hilarious: Fans Of The TV Show Castle Angry At Sports

10-03-2014, 12:14 AM	#1927
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Let's f'n GO!!!!!! Gonna play two in KC!

10-03-2014, 06:15 AM	#1930
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I'll add I think the NBA does it great. I've had season tickets for 8 years now and a 7pm tip-off means I'm out in under 2.5 hours. The playoff games are a little longer (15-20 minutes), but that's understandable. I'm walking distance from Wrigley and don't bother hitting up games because the extra hour isn't worth it (make it 2 hours if Edwin Jackson is pitching). I don't know if it matters to baseball or not. It does seem like the fanbase is getting older. I rarely see kids out in baseball gear. Maybe that changes at some point but I have to wonder what we're looking at in 20-25 years. Last edited by RainMaker : 10-03-2014 at 06:24 AM.

10-03-2014, 08:24 AM	#1937
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	There is a time between pitches in the rules if I remember. Enforce that rule and allow the batter only one chance to step out of the box during an at bat.

10-03-2014, 09:07 AM	#1938
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	My dream World Series this year is StL-KC. I like historical match ups which was why I usually pick StL and Bos/Det. I would like to include SF in there but not much there unless you go pre-war.

10-03-2014, 09:45 AM	#1939
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Make 7 inning games guys, simple

10-03-2014, 09:54 AM	#1940
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Though the average time per game isn't THAT much longer than other sporting events (aside from soccer): Baseball Prospectus \| Statistics \| Custom Statistics Reports: Game Information League Average The average baseball game in 2014 was 3.13 hrs. Though, granted, it has been going up. I'd imagine a lot of that, though, isn't because of batter stepping out, etc, but the emphasis on taking pitches instead of being too aggressive at the plate. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

10-03-2014, 11:59 AM	#1945
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Oh Braves Fans Thoughts? Fredi Gonzalez staying as Atlanta Braves manager - ESPN __________________ "The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946

10-03-2014, 12:22 PM	#1946
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	They must be happy with his move to bay BJ Upton leadoff for half the season in hopes he'd "break out". __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

10-03-2014, 02:51 PM	#1949
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	HOW BOUT DEM ORIOLES

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