Werewolf LVI - Upstairs, Downstairs - GAME OVER, Guests WIN!

[PurdueBrad]

Vote RendeR

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Was hoping to get someone else's thoughts, but I'll just vote Render since I have to go for a bit.

VOTE RENDER

Well I had posted my thoughts previously, but you convienantly ignored them. My guess is that you and DaddyTorgo are on one team while Render is on the other, and none of you three are guests.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Just got on. I searched last night and slept last night. I did not find anything suspicious. I'm glad to hear that somebody at least found a weapon. Good to see we dropped the cook too.

Is there an answer that I missed to the victory conditions. If we eliminate one entire team, does that give the win to the opposite team as opposed to the villagers? In other words, do we basically have to narrow each opposing team down to one and yet be careful to keep from lynching or losing that one in order to win?

If all of the upstairs team is removed, the downstairs team wins.
If all of the downstairs team is removed, the upstairs team wins.
If after day 4, the guests (not counting sympathizers) outnumber both the upstairs and downstairs team combined, they win.

So right now, it looks like the upstairs team has the advantage to me.

[Lathum]

It seems EagleFan and Telle were killed in an attempt to set me up.

I can confirm SNDVLS was out last night, I saw him roaming around trying to stay quiet.

AlanT, may I ask what your actions were last night?

[oliegirl]

I'm here for a few minutes this morning, read through last night...I slept last night, glad I survived...

I'll be around throughout the day, I have some meetings but will be checking in periodically and will cast my vote long before deadline...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It seems EagleFan and Telle were killed in an attempt to set me up.

I can confirm SNDVLS was out last night, I saw him roaming around trying to stay quiet.

AlanT, may I ask what your actions were last night?

Lathum, I still don't understand why you are after people who are guests? Are you a sympathizer?

I went searching, and I will be able to prove it later when I post the evidence that I found for whomever I go after with my vote. I've just been waiting in hopes to talk some sense into my fellow guests in trying to pick a common target instead of scattering votes everywhere.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lathum, I still don't understand why you are after people who are guests? Are you a sympathizer?

I went searching, and I will be able to prove it later when I post the evidence that I found for whomever I go after with my vote. I've just been waiting in hopes to talk some sense into my fellow guests in trying to pick a common target instead of scattering votes everywhere.

AlanT, I'm willing to vote with you and give you my trust today...I'm heading out but will catch up when I get back on later.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

AlanT, I'm willing to vote with you and give you my trust today...I'm heading out but will catch up when I get back on later.

Well my guess right now is that neither DaddyTorgo or Render are guests and I am guessing they both are on opposite teams.

Right now for guest votes, we have:

Neon voted for DaddyTorgo
Sndvls voted for Render.

Render has a bigger lead with 2 other non-revealed guests piling on to him (PurdueBrad and Gonzo).

The evidence against each of them:
DT voted for a revealed guest after Neon had revealed in an attempt to lynch him yesterday.
Render was spotted last night by a revealed guest (Sndvls) with a bloody knife and likely guilty for one of the night kills.

So right now, I think either of them are fine choices, my hopes are that all of the guests vote together as a block though, or we're going to be outnumbered very fast in this one. It seems likely that the upstairs team is trying to go after the downstairs team and win fast, but the downstairs team went after us last night. So I'm curious if the downstairs team is going to continue to go after us, or return the favor tonight.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Lathum, I still don't understand why you are after people who are guests? Are you a sympathizer?

I went searching, and I will be able to prove it later when I post the evidence that I found for whomever I go after with my vote. I've just been waiting in hopes to talk some sense into my fellow guests in trying to pick a common target instead of scattering votes everywhere.

Who said I am going after anyone?

You are being awefully defensive, please show me where in ANY of my posts I go anfter anyone?

I saw you out last night trying to act quiet, I am just curious what you are up to. That is all.

I figure it is best to get info out early, especially on a friday

[Telle]

Well that was disappointing. Now that I actually have time to play, I'm dead.

Go servants!!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

...he had something in his hand that was dripping blood...I know he killed someone last night....BTW I am the neighbor.

Originally Posted by Alan T

Render was spotted last night by a revealed guest (Sndvls) with a bloody knife and likely guilty for one of the night kills.

hmmmmm

I don't recall sndvls saying the weapon was a knife, just saying...

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Who said I am going after anyone?

You are being awefully defensive, please show me where in ANY of my posts I go anfter anyone?

I saw you out last night trying to act quiet, I am just curious what you are up to. That is all.

I figure it is best to get info out early, especially on a friday

Well I was kind of trying to not tell what I was up to in order to use it as suprise later if need be *shrug*..

[Alan T]

This is the list I have currently:

Upstairs
-------------------------
Mr. Winston
Mrs. Winston
Daria Winston
Joseph Winston

Downstairs
--------------------------
The Butler
The Chambermaid
The Cook Telle (dead)
The Driver

Guests
--------------------------
The Professor Alan T
The Gossip
The Vicar Barkeep (dead)
The Colonel Olliegirl
The Gadabout Lathum
The Lush
The Socialite ArlingtonColt
The Eccentric path12
The Daughter Eaglefan (dead)
The Elderly Gent neon_chaos
The Neighbor Sndvls

Unrevealed
------------------------------------------------

RendeR
Gonzo
PurdueBrad
RPI-Fan
Barkeep49
MrBug708
St. Cronin
ntndeacon
DaddyTorgo
Chief Rum

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hmmmmm

I don't recall sndvls saying the weapon was a knife, just saying...

See, this is exactly the type of post I'm talking about. You say you aren't going after guests but so far you are focusing more on them than the other teams. Right now I'm guessing you are one of the sympathizers.

Maybe you are right, maybe Render just cut himself shaving or something.. I'm not sure why else his hand would be Dripping with blood. Its pretty obvious to me that Sndvls caught him redhanded last night killing -someone-

[Lathum]

That post was the first time I have even remotly gone after anyone.

I actualy think you are the sympathizer. I've seen you play this game before.

I just want to get that info out there now in case I am killed tonight. It seems Render is a likely lynch candidate tonight. I am just trying to get some discussion going. If it gets me killed so be it.

[Lathum]

dola- I just looked back and saw it say they were stabbed in the write up so I guess I will retract my statement somewhat, that being said I still think something is off about you.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- I just looked back and saw it say they were stabbed in the write up so I guess I will retract my statement somewhat, that being said I still think something is off about you.

You are bizzarre.

I give up. Guests vote for all different random people and let them pick us off one by one..

We're going to lose and lose badly. If you aren't the sympathizer Lathum, then I just don't know what to make of your game so far.

[Neon_Chaos]

Guys, let's just get DT and get this over with.

PurdueBrad is probably not a guest as well. Smells wolfie to me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You are bizzarre.

I give up. Guests vote for all different random people and let them pick us off one by one..

We're going to lose and lose badly. If you aren't the sympathizer Lathum, then I just don't know what to make of your game so far.

Likewise.

You are basicly attacking me for no reason say I am "going after" known villagers.

1. I haven't even cast a vote today

2. all I did was remotely question YOUR play and you responded strongly.


Here is a list of the people who have revealed as guests

The Professor Alan T
The Gossip
The Vicar Barkeep (dead)
The Colonel Olliegirl
The Gadabout Lathum
The Lush
The Socialite ArlingtonColt
The Eccentric path12
The Daughter Eaglefan (dead)
The Elderly Gent neon_chaos
The Neighbor Sndvls

With the exception of my day 1 vote please show me where in ANY of my posts I have "gone after" anyof these people, as you say?

The only other one I mentioned is you, because I have seen this from you before.

You are completly putting words in my mouth. My vote today will be for Render but I will be looking closely at you in the future.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Guys, let's just get DT and get this over with.

PurdueBrad is probably not a guest as well. Smells wolfie to me.

Neon, since you are the only vote on DT and there are 3 on Render, why not move to Render instead and lets take care of him today? I think there is decent evidence against both DT and Render here and you moving over can help ensure we have a block of voters.
Lathum has already indicated he was going to vote for render, and that is where I am leaning as well.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Likewise.

You are basicly attacking me for no reason say I am "going after" known villagers.

1. I haven't even cast a vote today

2. all I did was remotely question YOUR play and you responded strongly.


Here is a list of the people who have revealed as guests

The Professor Alan T
The Gossip
The Vicar Barkeep (dead)
The Colonel Olliegirl
The Gadabout Lathum
The Lush
The Socialite ArlingtonColt
The Eccentric path12
The Daughter Eaglefan (dead)
The Elderly Gent neon_chaos
The Neighbor Sndvls

With the exception of my day 1 vote please show me where in ANY of my posts I have "gone after" anyof these people, as you say?

The only other one I mentioned is you, because I have seen this from you before.

You are completly putting words in my mouth. My vote today will be for Render but I will be looking closely at you in the future.

You are going after me heavier than going after Render, even tossing out the whole (how do we know Render was the killer, Sndvls didn't say he had a knife) line you tried to throw out before you noticed that the death actually stated he was stabbed.

I have no problem with you trying to throw suspicion my way, maybe it will help keep me alive longer *shrug*. Either way, I'm not voting for you for a while. I'm far more interested in trying to kill off the upstairs and downstairs teams. You very likely are a sympathizer to one of those teams, but its not a good move for us to try to narrow that down until we get in a better shape numberwise.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Neon, since you are the only vote on DT and there are 3 on Render, why not move to Render instead and lets take care of him today? I think there is decent evidence against both DT and Render here and you moving over can help ensure we have a block of voters.
Lathum has already indicated he was going to vote for render, and that is where I am leaning as well.

don't try to get in my good graces by aligning yourself with me. I'm onto you.

[DaddyTorgo]

"let's just get DT"

might make sense if I wasn't a guest Neon.

VOTE RENDER

and i'm holding onto who I am in order to still allow for someone to try to claim my role. if i'm in danger later I will (reluctantly) reveal though.

[Alan T]

Vote Render

This game is a bit different than others where I usually want to keep the vote closer so we can hopefully learn something from the vote. THis game is the opposite. Out of the 10 people not revealed, I know 80% of them are not guests, and those that are guests would likely reveal if their necks are on the line for a lynch.

So I don't know that there is alot to learn from the lynch votes other than perhaps who might or might not be a sympathizer, but for the same reason as I'm not pushing a Lathum vote any time soon, thats the least of my concerns right now.

[Lathum]

VOTE DADDYTORGO

I don't want to be assosiated in any way with anything AlanT does.

including spelling correctly and proper grammer.

[DaddyTorgo]

figure there's the gossip and the lush left...so I must be one of the two.

I hinted at which before BTW. After checking in on D1 and before voting.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

don't try to get in my good graces by aligning yourself with me. I'm onto you.

You are really amazing. I was talking about voting either Render or DT since before you even woke up. Did you even read the stuff I posted, or just spend time trying to figure out how to make other guests suspicious looking? All morning I have spent saying that we should go for either of them, but all of the guest votes should be together on one person. Since Render has a clear lead in votes, it seems like the best place to go to ensure that another guest is not lynched. Thats all I care about right now. You on the other hand have some other motive that is pretty clear.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting vote lathum...wtf?

I think you may have nailed it earlier alan...lathum's the sympathizer and he's just playing a "stay alive as long as I can and throw as much shit around and create chaos" kind of role

[PurdueBrad]

[quote=Alan T;1552103]Out of the 10 people not revealed, I know 80% of them are not guests, and those that are guests would likely reveal if their necks are on the line for a lynch.
[quote]

Alan, I would go out on a limb and say that no more than 80% are not guests. There is at least one fake reveal but right now, the smart play IMHO is to not chase it because we need to leave one person from each team alive to win. When push comes to shove, I'll reveal which would put up the fake but until then, I can name one wolf, just not sure which team. That is what I'm really trying to learn from the votes, where the split is between the other two teams.

[Alan T]

All i can say is if Lathum isn't a sympathizer, he really doesn't want to win the game. I think I'll just leave it at that. He obviously knows if he is the sympathizer, and if he isn't and is just being stubborn, well then pushing him further isn't going to change that. And I have no reason or desire to draw anyone to vote for Lathum at all. I honestly don't care if DT gets voted out either. I don't believe that DT is a guest at all.

[DaddyTorgo]

[quote=PurdueBrad;1552110][quote=Alan T;1552103]Out of the 10 people not revealed, I know 80% of them are not guests, and those that are guests would likely reveal if their necks are on the line for a lynch.

Alan, I would go out on a limb and say that no more than 80% are not guests. There is at least one fake reveal but right now, the smart play IMHO is to not chase it because we need to leave one person from each team alive to win. When push comes to shove, I'll reveal which would put up the fake but until then, I can name one wolf, just not sure which team. That is what I'm really trying to learn from the votes, where the split is between the other two teams.

now that you have said this you need to tell us before night actions tonight, otherwise we run the risk of you taking the information to your grave

[Lathum]

[quote=PurdueBrad;1552110][quote=Alan T;1552103]Out of the 10 people not revealed, I know 80% of them are not guests, and those that are guests would likely reveal if their necks are on the line for a lynch.

Alan, I would go out on a limb and say that no more than 80% are not guests. There is at least one fake reveal but right now, the smart play IMHO is to not chase it because we need to leave one person from each team alive to win. When push comes to shove, I'll reveal which would put up the fake but until then, I can name one wolf, just not sure which team. That is what I'm really trying to learn from the votes, where the split is between the other two teams.

If you have a role to counter I suggest you do it before the night phase, currently you have just put a huge target on your back

[DaddyTorgo]

alan...between my check-in post and my first post voting on D1...I hinted at my role. you ought to be able to figure it out.

[Alan T]

[quote=PurdueBrad;1552110][quote=Alan T;1552103]Out of the 10 people not revealed, I know 80% of them are not guests, and those that are guests would likely reveal if their necks are on the line for a lynch.

Alan, I would go out on a limb and say that no more than 80% are not guests. There is at least one fake reveal but right now, the smart play IMHO is to not chase it because we need to leave one person from each team alive to win. When push comes to shove, I'll reveal which would put up the fake but until then, I can name one wolf, just not sure which team. That is what I'm really trying to learn from the votes, where the split is between the other two teams.

I disagree fully. If you are claiming to have a role that someone else has claimed, I think it should be revealed. In this game there are no reveals on lynches, just at night kills. I think you holding on to this puts more doubt into my mind that you are the one lying and just picking and choosing whom to put into doubt. I think by coming out with this dispute right away accomplishes two things.. 1) You won't be killed by at least one team at night if you are telling the truth (or if you are the one lying, the same applies to the other person).. and 2) it helps us narrow down a field a bit further to what claims are out there.

[DaddyTorgo]

there's a bunch of us on...let's hear it now Purdue. Who do you claim is falsely claiming a role?

[Lathum]

I am off for a while.

PurdueBrad, I strongly suggest you counter that reveal asap.

[PurdueBrad]

Lathum, I have the power to protect myself tonight as much as necessary.

I would suggest this, in order to try and build a COT that our seer scan me tonight. From there, we can start to circle the wagons around a few trusted villagers. Right now, I feel that Alan is perhaps my most trusted and, if he says he trusts Lathum, I'll give Lathum that leeway as well.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

alan...between my check-in post and my first post voting on D1...I hinted at my role. you ought to be able to figure it out.

I'll g o back and look. Right now though, Lathum's move has made me feel much better about my vote. He originally came out trying to throw some doubt into if Render was the killer until he backed off of that statement, then used my voting for Render as a way to try to put a vote elsewhere. I still don't know if I believe you, but Lathum might have bought you a day at least in my eyes.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm. And the target grows.

[DaddyTorgo]

like I said...if my neck is on the line at any point I will of course reveal. Just want to try to...leave it out there for someone else to be forced to claim my role

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

like I said...if my neck is on the line at any point I will of course reveal. Just want to try to...leave it out there for someone else to be forced to claim my role

Right. You're not fooling anyone, wolf.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Lathum, I have the power to protect myself tonight as much as necessary.

I would suggest this, in order to try and build a COT that our seer scan me tonight. From there, we can start to circle the wagons around a few trusted villagers. Right now, I feel that Alan is perhaps my most trusted and, if he says he trusts Lathum, I'll give Lathum that leeway as well.

Yeah... I don't get why you would have me as your most trusted at all. Until you counter-reveal, I'm not sure I believe your story much. I'm not even sure if the guests even have a seer to scan you. The rules state each team, the upstairs and the downstairs, have a seer. It doesn't mention the guests at all.. And even if we did have a seer, you think he should come out and reveal himself in order to vouch for you?

I think this game is quite interesting as a deviant game in the sense that its Barkeep's dream game.. a ton of information was put out there for us to do stuff with.. There are a very small number of guest roles not revealed yet. So if you are claiming a fake reveal, its very important to come out with it asap. To not do so will put your counter reveal in doubt and possibly hurt us badly. (See a couple of games ago when I actually did a fake reveal and was still able to convince people I wasn't the one lying because of when the counter reveal came out).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Right. You're not fooling anyone, wolf.

jeez Neon. You're a smarter player than to hold a grudge for a D1 vote. Right now my vote is on you as the person faking a role.

if I was a wolf I would have claimed a role earlier...or at least come out and claimed it now while there was still doubt, before someone else had the opportunity to claim it, instead of waiting as long as possible

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

like I said...if my neck is on the line at any point I will of course reveal. Just want to try to...leave it out there for someone else to be forced to claim my role

So DT, explain this..

If you really are a guest, why in the world would you have voted for another guest when he had already revealed as a guest, and you had like a 70% chance of picking a non-guest if you had chosen ANYONE else? Your vote put a fellow guest at risk of being lynched and also in a sense saved Gonzo from dying.

So why wouldn't we find that suspicious?

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hmmm. And the target grows.

Then target me. I am doing what I believe to be the right play here. I've been against reveals all along because it sets us up to picked off. The one good thing I guess is that it has drawn people out or shut people off into their various factions. My goal is to get my second win as a villager. I will use my power to protect as many early and late night cycles as needed but would prefer not to have to, spreading it out might be more beneficial.

As I said, scan me. We know there are special powers among us, use them.

[Peregrine]

Just some game design notes on this one. I ran a two team game in one of my early ones, the River of Darkness, which also had secret roles. It went well but I always felt the non-wolves needed more of a role, in that game it felt like they were just standing around trying to survive. So in this game I gave them a specific victory condition that would allow them to get a solid win.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So DT, explain this..

If you really are a guest, why in the world would you have voted for another guest when he had already revealed as a guest, and you had like a 70% chance of picking a non-guest if you had chosen ANYONE else? Your vote put a fellow guest at risk of being lynched and also in a sense saved Gonzo from dying.

So why wouldn't we find that suspicious?

his moves right before I voted for him seemed suspicious and at that point there were still a number of guest roles left un-revealed I believe. I was banking on him being either a wolf with a fake role or a sympathizer.

I don't recall at what time I cast that vote to be honest, but I think I cast that vote and then got up and left my computer until after deadline.

I hadn't really..."plugged into" the game yet as it were. I was busy all day up until 6:30pm, got on to catch up for the first time at like...7pm or so

*shrug* it's the truth.

Hey...do we state in-thread we want to use our evidence, or PM it to peregrine?

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Lathum, I have the power to protect myself tonight as much as necessary.

I would suggest this, in order to try and build a COT that our seer scan me tonight. From there, we can start to circle the wagons around a few trusted villagers. Right now, I feel that Alan is perhaps my most trusted and, if he says he trusts Lathum, I'll give Lathum that leeway as well.

Umm, Brad...yo...BRAAAaaaad....did you read the rules?

The only teams with seers are the upstairs and downstairs. Of which you are now pretty solidly part of one or the other.

Now, as for SNDevils seing me last night I cry WOLF!

It was ME that saw HIM running around with a bloody KNIFE specifically. I didn't see which room as I apparently ran like a scared litle girl when I saw him dripping his way down the hallway.

SNDVLS is the culprit here!!

Man i hate it when I don't check in immediately in the morning and everyon piles on before I can even respond.

I didn't kill ANYONE. I searched and slept last night and while searching spotted SNDvls roaming the halls with a blood covered knife.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

jeez Neon. You're a smarter player than to hold a grudge for a D1 vote. Right now my vote is on you as the person faking a role.

if I was a wolf I would have claimed a role earlier...or at least come out and claimed it now while there was still doubt, before someone else had the opportunity to claim it, instead of waiting as long as possible

Lol. I dare ANYONE to come out and call himself the Elderly Gent.

You slipped with your D1 vote, voting for a revealed role, and you're trying to turn it back.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yeah... I don't get why you would have me as your most trusted at all. Until you counter-reveal, I'm not sure I believe your story much. I'm not even sure if the guests even have a seer to scan you. The rules state each team, the upstairs and the downstairs, have a seer. It doesn't mention the guests at all.. And even if we did have a seer, you think he should come out and reveal himself in order to vouch for you?

Alan, you've stepped to the head of the house as a strong personality and helpful. Your play isn't crying out for conversion and nobody has challenged your reveal, so I'm pretty sure those two things right now put you at the head of trusted. Show me somebody else that has been as big a leader?

As for the seer, I'm assuming, based on some comments about "using your special powers" and other knowledge that we likely have a seer among us and NO, I do not want a reveal. I was asking for something more subtle as a move of support once scanned but that, at this point, would probably not be a great move either. Honestly, I had thought that maybe you were our seer, so a scan, proof, and then simple word of support from one of our forefront members would've cast off suspicion PLUS put somebody else in the loop about my role.

Honestly, let me reconsider outing the fake reveal, as I do understand it puts a target on me for tonight although I feel safe at night. I will consider doing it though to gain trust of the other guests.