Mass shooting at church in Texas

[CrescentMoonie]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...shootings.html

Pretty much everybody agrees on basic gun control issues yet we can't pass laws at the federal level. Also, the correlation between stricter laws and fewer deaths couldn't be much stronger.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

A lot of the people who end up enlisting aren't exactly the cream of the social and academic crop. For a lot of them its really one of the only things they can do to make their lives better. It shouldn't be a big surprise that you find this result among them, or that what they've experienced has fractured an already delicate personality.

This is very true and it seems more prevalent in the Army vs. other branches. I train BJJ with a lot of active (Nearly all Air Force) and former military folks and most of them are among the most amazing people you will ever meet. I have also known some, including one of my former neighbors that I would never would have wanted to share a foxhole with when I served and in some cases just plain scare me they are so off.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

A lot of the people who end up enlisting aren't exactly the cream of the social and academic crop. For a lot of them its really one of the only things they can do to make their lives better. It shouldn't be a big surprise that you find this result among them, or that what they've experienced has fractured an already delicate personality.

Uncomfortable, but true.

[SteveM58]

Originally Posted by panerd

We have covered gun laws, mental illness, media coverage, big pharma, bullying, video games in just about every shooting. (Don't get me wrong I think these are all huge factors). Seems like there is a big one we miss. Ex military? I know not every veteran is a crack pot and obviously the school shootings wouldn't be explained either. Seems to be a part of the profile pretty often though. It is because these types of people are drawn to the military or is there more to it? Seems there aren't as many casualties as conflicts in the past on our side but a lot of our soldiers are doing a lot of killing including (no choice of their own) very young enemy combatants. Does it desensitize or even drive some over the edge?

Would this be the mystery ingredient that we are missing when compared to these other first world countries? I feel like we ignore this with herion and maybe we are doing the same with mass shootings?

I think its another ingredient you could sprinkle on that, in some cases, desensitizes people based on their military experience.

But I think the more common ingredient is a reflection on the society we have created. Disconnected, reactionary, accusatory, and meaningless in the way we perceive each other. Not everybody sees society this way of course, and its not that we didn't have the occasional rampage before, but the society is larger than we would have perceived it 15+ years ago. The internet, media, and general "connectedness" connects (yes, a tautology) people to things & experiences they never would have seen in previous eras.

Now this has helped society in many ways, expanded the minds of a lot of us that would not have understood other cultures and people otherwise. Or at least, it would have taken a much longer life to understand as much as we do at our current ages. But for some people, with a unique set of life experiences and predisposed neurological patterns of thinking, they can get caught up in pathological ways of thinking about the world. Especially if they are shunned, or see an echo chamber in their world that creates meaningless, and a real hatred of human life.

Its not an invalid argument to say "no guns means no gun deaths", but guns or no guns doesn't change the actual root of the problem...people who feel this society is so awful that it ought not exist. Thats my take anyway.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Edward64

This should be a fun movie to watch. Probably even better than the original Red Dawn.

I'm working on selling the idea to Hollywood as we speak.

[CrescentMoonie]

This gets more messed up every day.

Texas church shooter attended celebration with parishioners days before rampage, report says

[CU Tiger]

There is already a process to sell private to private with a check and documentation. Its called an FFL transfer. If you want to buy my gun you and I walk into a federally license shop we do paperwork and the gun changes ownership and federal documentation from me to you.

If i was ever to sell a firearm that is the only way I would do it.
I have bought several this way never sold one. The local shops charge $25 for the documentation processing fee. More than reasonable.

Where it gets stupid is the arbitrary law that both people must be residents of the same state.

Seems logical enough until....my dad and I live 18 miles apart in different states. There is not currently a legal platform for me to sell a handgun to him this way. It cant be done. Long guns can...except my state doesnt require a long gun transfer go figure.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Seems there aren't as many casualties as conflicts in the past on our side but a lot of our soldiers are doing a lot of killing including (no choice of their own) very young enemy combatants.

Are military veterans more likely for shooting sprees? - The San Diego Union-Tribune

Through Jan 2017, I'd question "a lot of soliders ... doing a lot of killing".

Be sure to get to the end of the article (even if you skim other parts). The study of a base with 10 murder suspects in a 3 year span. What they found surprised the researchers (who admitted they went in expecting the opposite):

What they found, in a study published a November 2013, was that reports of assault, murder and robbery increased when more homebound units were stationed at the base — not when infantry brigades came back from the battlefield. ... “No matter how we sliced it, we did not find a consistent story for crime going up for these (returning) brigades — whether it was returning from combat really recently or maybe not recently, or your brigade suffered a lot of fatalities or not as many,”

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

We have covered in just about every shooting. (Don't get me wrong I think these are all huge factors). Seems like there is a big one we miss. Ex military? I know not every veteran is a crack pot and obviously the school shootings wouldn't be explained either. Seems to be a part of the profile pretty often though. It is because these types of people are drawn to the military or is there more to it? Seems there aren't as many casualties as conflicts in the past on our side but a lot of our soldiers are doing a lot of killing including (no choice of their own) very young enemy combatants. Does it desensitize or even drive some over the edge?

Would this be the mystery ingredient that we are missing when compared to these other first world countries? I feel like we ignore this with herion and maybe we are doing the same with mass shootings?

Speaking for myself as a vet, the first thing that I look at is whether or not the perpetrator has a military background. I may be looking at this with camo colored glasses but I would like to believe that most of these types are drawn to the military because guns and then get the discipline, life building skills and all that good stuff while they are in. The reality is some will and others won't.

Unfortunately, just saying ex-military is a lot like saying gun laws, mental illness, media coverage, big pharma, bullying, video games. It may be part of the problem but everyone is more likely to blame all of the other parts more than the part that affects them the most.

[miami_fan]

Having been on the hit list of a young subordinate while in the military, I recommend this story to all who would like more insight into what happened while the shooter was in the military.

In Air Force, Colleague Feared Church Gunman Would ‘Shoot Up the Place’ - The New York Times

[Edward64]

No new thread for mass shooting in CA. I guess we're all "mass shooting" out?

It sounds as if this guy had a history and the cops were aware. Wouldn't be surprised if the cops got some flak over the (lack of) handling of this pre-shooting.

Good thing the school drills worked to prevent an even greater tragedy.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Edward64

No new thread for mass shooting in CA. I guess we're all "mass shooting" out?

It sounds as if this guy had a history and the cops were aware. Wouldn't be surprised if the cops got some flak over the (lack of) handling of this pre-shooting.

Good thing the school drills worked to prevent an even greater tragedy.

It's pretty sad isn't it that this isn't even a big news item? I have a five year old so the fact that he still shot one 5 year old at the school is one too many. Just kill yourself why kill random people? And most of all random children? How do you even get that sick or evil?

[CrescentMoonie]

The biggest news on the CA shooting is that Trump cut and pasted an old tweet without changing the location.

[cuervo72]

Safer, y'all!

Man accidentally shoots himself and his wife at a church, shortly after a discussion on shootings - The Washington Post

[miami_fan]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/12/us/gu...nvs/index.html